How do you know/find a GOOD school?

[Suspected]

A long time ago when I was much younger (probably 12 years old or so) I took a martial arts class and it was so obviously a scam. As young as I was, even I was able to realize that all my peers learned nothing; needless to say, I quit the class rather soon.

Now that I'm 18, I am considering learning a useful form of MA. Basically, what I would like from the class is to learn how to be able to defend myself if the need were to arise, as well as hopefully having a good aerobic exercise from the class. My questions are as followed:
1) How old does one need to be to learn a true form of MA?
2) How can one go about finding authentic dojo/class/club?
3) Are there any warning signs to look out for that often indicate a scam?
4) How fit does one need to be to start learning a true form of MA?

This is my first post btw, so my apologizes if such questions were recently answered :).

[thiaboxr2]

By " true form" Im assumming you mean traditional? Correct me if I am wrong. There is no wrong age to begin martial arts. Thats up to you to begin when you're ready.

The quickest way to find the schools is the obvious phone book. I learned that all schools are not listed. Then you have your internet. Search your area of interest. The next step could be your actual search on your own by driving around.

Being at some level of fitness would help depending what art one chooses to train in. Some styles require alot of flexibility. others very little. Endurance levels will gradually inprove over time in class.

As far as warning signs? Im not sure. I do not have experience with any bad schools. I can only guess. What about outragious belt testing fees? Training isnt following a set curriculum? Is it a well known school? How many students are there? A few students in class or is it full all the time? What about the students initiative-do they like what they are doing? Is the instructor articulate? Can they teach the class in a professional manner?

I will stop here. There are more questions, just too many to list.
Others will express their opinion here. All the above info. is what I can come up with off the top of my head.

[confido]

What country, area do you live suspected? There are alot of experienced martial artists on this forum from all over, if you post your location someone should be able to point you in the right direction. Look in the "discussion on schools and teachers" forum, there is alot of info in there about what to look out for, and if you have the time look into the different style sections for more of an idea about what you want to do.

[Suspected]

By true form I just merely mean something that's not phony. I care not if it's traditional or modern, just as long as it's effective I suppose :).

I live in San Diego, California (4th biggest city in the US if memory serves me right), so I don't think there will be a lack of schools, but I have no idea how you guys go about finding a good school. I was already once in a very poor MA class (and outrages prices for the belts was actually one of their features :(), thus the last thing I want is another scam :(. I have already read all of the "discussion on schools and teachers" thread but was unable to find any good methods on finding the good schools.

[Jim]

1) How old does one need to be to learn a true form of MA?
Depends on the system. They will let you know if you're too young, although I don't know any who'll knock back an 18yo.

2) How can one go about finding authentic dojo/class/club?
I wouldn't worry too much about authenticity. If it's good who cares what country it's from.

3) Are there any warning signs to look out for that often indicate a scam?
Money, money and money. Arrogant and unapproachable teachers, too much 'fine print' in agreement forms. You already have an idea on this from what you've been through before.

4) How fit does one need to be to start learning a true form of MA?
As shown above, it depends on the system. When you take a lesson you'll get the hang of how much 'fittening up' you need to do.

First stop would be to have a look at classes that are close to you. Go to them and have a look around. Any that you have a bad 'gut feeling' about - avoid.

Let us know how you get on.

[roundhouseklik]

Hey Suspected!

I know how difficult it can be these days to find a school with a reputable instructor! Like the other replies stated, it's best to look in a phone book; I also find the internet quite helpful.

There is no "right" age to train in the martial arts. If you're 18, I see no reason why any instructor would hold you back. As long as you are willing to work hard, schools will accept you :D

"Authenticity" is in the eye of the beholder. My biggest piece of advice to you is - WATCH A CLASS! MEET THE INSTRUCTOR! You will definitely be able to learn a lot about his or her character. Observe the school environment - is it clean? Is it laid back (depends on the level of rigitidy you're searching for). Are most classes taught by the head instructor or by assistants to him? Are most of the students lower belts, or is there somewhat of a distribution (helps determine retention rate). Are the prices in your range?

Does the instructor give you a straight answer? When you meet him, call first to arrange a meeting. Be respectful. "Would it be ok if I came to observe a class or two?" I'd advise going to both a beginner and advanced class, if they offer them. Does it look like there is a solid progression of technique? Are the higher belts in a physically fit state? Do they look skilled?

Be blunt. Be frank. You are not at the school to fool around. Asking questions is a great thing. Here are some I'd ask any instructor.
-"From whom did you get your back belt? How long have you been training?" Asking about lineage and experience shoudln't make the instructor jittery. He should be able to give you the name of the instructor. In many arts, the teachers are proud of the people they have trained under.
-"How much does it cost? Do I have to sign a contract? Can I pay month to month? Are there any additional costs after the monthly fee? Does the price increase as I move up in rank? Is there a limit to the number of classes per week that I can take? Do I have to pay for belt tests?" Asking about money is always a good idea - it is in no way inappropriate. To be quite honest with you, martial arts is a BIG investment! My advice to you is DO NOT get caught in a yearly contract. Schools often make you pay for 6 months, for 12 months, for 18 months all at once to jack up their monetary intake. I think this is wrong because no matter how careful you are in choosing a school it is possible for even the most advanced martial artists to make mistakes in judgement. Schools sometimes charge fees that you aren't initially aware of. Sure, a school can be inexpensive and charge 50 dollars a month - but what about when they want you to pay for belt tests, and buy things like uniforms, sparring protective equipment, weapons, team apparel, keychains...the list goes on and on. I would NEVER take classes with an instructor who was not frank and honest with you regarding fees.
- "Are you competition oriented?" Schools that use 90% of their time to train for competition may be missing out on some other very important aspects of martial arts (depending on what you're looking for), like self defense, spiritual development, and FUN! Anbother thing to be on the lookout for is trophies. I think a modest trophy display is in no way a problem in a school, but a loud, pretentious smattering of trophies all over the dojo floor is over the top and tells me that a school may rate a student's progress by how many shiny trophies they bring to the school. Honestly, I myself compete in jiu-jitsu tournaments, but the most brash display of my effort was a small paper on the bulletein board congratulating my team! Big ego is often a problem in the martial arts....if an instructore comes off as an extremely large fan of himself, I'm less likely to take his class no matter how skilled he is.
-"Can I try a class?" Every reputalble instuctor I have ever worked with allowed new students to try at leats one free class to see how they liked it - some schools will throw you right into a class environment, some will give you a brief private lesson - you want a school that does everything in its power to accomodate you. My tae kwon do dojang gives new students a free trial month and a new uniform, no obligations to sign up. While this is an ideal situation, the opposite is a school that won't even let you try ONE class - I even visited a school once only to find that I was not welcome to observe their class!
-"Can you tell me a little bit about your style and teaching method?" You want to know exactly what you're in for in this class - what the teacher will be teaching, whether you will be doing mostly striking or mostly grappling or a mixture of both. Will you be sparring in class? Will it be full contact? Will you have a heavy emphasis on forms, hyungs, or katas? Does the instructor do a warmup heavy on calisthenics? Be sure a proper amount of stretching is always done. Does the teacher teach everyone at once, or individually, or in small groups according to rank? Does he LOAD all the techniques on white belts and make them suffer through perfecting every one, or build a small foundation and teach new techniques with new ranks?

Finally, what do YOU want in a martial arts school? Do you want to learn self defense, do you want a spiritual aspect? Do you want a more traditional environment or a laid-back school? Do you want to do striking (kicks, punches, knees, elbows, etc.) or grappling (wrestling, judo, jiu-jitsu., joint holds, chokes, etc.) My advice to you is that if you ever want to be a complete martial artist, you must have a relatively strong base in both strikes and grappling technique. Do me a favor and briefly research the arts because I am sure you will find whatever you please in a large city such as San Diego. Good luck, and if you need any help choosing a style, please post what you would like to gain from your experience in the arts! I hope we are able to help you!

[Suspected]

Thanks a lot roundhouseklik, I found your information very valuable :). Currently I'm not planning to even start looking for a school for at least another two months; I just wanted to get an early idea of what I'm getting myself into. The prospect of tournaments is actually a big turn-off, since I'm far too competative for my own good and I would like this to be more of a fun thing for me. For now I'll probably be just lurking this forum from time to time until 2 months or so in which time I plan to start searching for a specific school.

Thanks again :D.

[lynched]

Basically Im lookin all over for a MMA place, its not bin easy :bang: like ive prolly searched in everyway i can think of except the phone book i want to learn something like i can use UFC styles, like BJJ Pankration Wrestling all of it in one place, ive come across 1 that seem good Universal Martial Arts is it any good? theres alot of hurting places that are all about self confidence and for fun. But can someone give me some names of good places that you can excel with and do tournements and go far with, around the area of coquitlam,burnaby,newestminster,vancouver that be appreciated.

[Alerten22]

Try looking up this forum page it has a post by me (same user name) and i try to explain a good way to finding out. (please try and ignore my rant)

http://www.shaolin.nl/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=571

Although it talks about finding a CMA teacher... i think if you think of it in terms of just a teacher it would make good sense also.

[Nomadwanders]

Suspected,

I have been training for the last 5 years in San Diego at a very reputable dojo which has been around for nearly 30 years under the same instructor. We do traditional Japanese karatedo (mostly shotokan kata with a few chinese forms to add "softer" elements). If you would like to join me for a "buddy" class (no high pressure sale, just come out, meet the instructor(s), try a class and see if you like it), just let me know (private message) and I'll be happy to arrange it.

[Kwajman]

Well thats pretty subjective since we all look for different things in a school. Cost, ability of instructors, age of instructors, size, how "new" or basic the school is, philosophy of sport vs traditional.....lots to think about.

[lynched]

can someone just tell me some good schools

[lynched]

can someone just tell me some good schools

Okay okay people can someone help me in search for a good school that will be a good place to train for places like the UFC, check out these place and tell me what you thinjk would be the best.


Universal Mixed Martial Arts, www.universalmma.com

Suitela Fitness & Self Defence Center www.suitela.com

Raptor Athletic Club www.raptorathlete.com

[seattlekali]

I agree with what you said, its all about the money, they want you to go to these seminars that are 2 days long and you have to fork out the cost of the class, travel expense, food and loging, and to gain what? I look for how the insturor is,if he is humble and caring to help their students versus the ones that are very ego/mancho look to them, trying to keep their hair looking good, stuff like that shows me the integrity of the instructor.

[ap Oweyn]

Good advice already so far. But I'm going to add this: Don't be afraid to find a BAD martial arts school. A lot of times, 'good' and 'bad' come down to how well a school meets your personal priorities. So you can get a "this school is great" from someone you trust. And that still doesn't mean it'll be a good school for you. Conversely, you could get a school that your competition-oriented friend thinks is rubbish and you could absolutely love it because competition isn't your thing anyway. (Or vice versa. Whatever.)

When you study at a school you don't like or in a style you don't like, you learn more about what you DO like. And next time, you can make a more informed decision. So my advice is to think about how easily you could leave a school if you chose to. Schools through the local rec center, for example, might do a month-to-month. That would probably be better for you than a 3-year contract that you have to struggle to get out of if things don't work out.


Stuart

[stephenk]

you want a school that does everything in its power to accomodate you.


I don't agree with this. As a student in a dojo do you want to train in a place that panders to everyone who walks in off the street? I'd rather the attention be placed on those who have show the commitment to show up for some period of time. You want a school where the instructor will do everything in his power to teach the way he feels is right, the students can go somewhere else if they don't like it.

What are the odds a new student will still be there training in two years. It can't be high. What about the odds the students that HAVE been training there for two years already will still be there, probably pretty good. Which one is the good investment. If a new student can't understand that, I'm sure they would find someone else's training more to their liking. In that case, they want to buy a product, but I don't have anything to sell.

In my opinion, you want a teacher who is there for himself, teaching as a by-product of his OWN training. In other words, he needs to make the students better so that he can get better. Be wary of people too concerned about other people's training. In every case I've seen the students coming out of this sort of enviroment are a much higher calibur and more proficient than students who train with teachers that "go out of their way to accomodate them."

As a result you'll find yourself training with a superb martial artist in an enviroment that will be better for you then the one you thought would be best.

When martial arts are turned into products they die.

To each their own.

[ember]

Only two things to add to what roundhousekik said.

1) Ask your friends, family, acquaintances for recommendations.

2) Comparison shop to know what the prices are like in the area. A contract that seems steep to you if it's the first place you check could end up being in the middle of the market.