History of the term "Soke"

[Wolf]

Recents events on MAP made me very curious about the title of 'Soke' and those using it. So I did some looking around and found a very informative article on the history and proper use of the term. I'll say it can seem a little long winded, but it really helped me to understand things a bit better. I hope everyone takes a chance to read this.

http://www.koryubooks.com/library/wbodiford1.html

[Davey Bones]

In concluding, it is difficult to condone the use of obscure Japanese terminology to describe American social practices for which perfectly acceptable English words already exist. One must struggle to imagine how any non-Japanese could call himself a "soke" in English except as a joke. At the same time it is also difficult to regard this term with any special reverence or to become overly troubled by its misuse among self-proclaimed "grandmasters" and "founders." During the Tokugawa period the word soke designated a commercial system of hereditary privilege that took advantage of the ignorance of ordinary people for financial gain. Perhaps teachers of commercial martial art schools in America who adopt the title soke for themselves are more historically accurate in their usage than they themselves realize.

This last sentence says it all, IMO.

[Wolf]

I would definitly have to agree :D

[Davey Bones]

So the World Sokeship Council is really the World Council of Fraudulent MAers?

Wow, glad we figured that one out!!!!

[Yohan]

Geez you guys are slow we figured it out like 2 days ago. Hopefully by next monday I'll have the email back from Mr. Gracie then we can put the last nail in that dummies coffin and bury him in the backyard with all his homade training tools.

[Wolf]

I sent a similar email to the gracies, and one to another master on there. And just to get irrefutable evidence from Marshall University I sent an email to their academic affairs department asking if they ever offered a degree program (undergraduate or graduate) in MA. I think we all know the answer to that one.

[AZeitung]

Geez you guys are slow we figured it out like 2 days ago. Hopefully by next monday I'll have the email back from Mr. Gracie. . .

Would that be from Hulio?

[Jesh]

So the World Sokeship Council is really the World Council of Fraudulent MAers?

OMG quick !!! Go and tell MMM... :eek:

[KenpoDavid]

Not everyone in the WHOFSC is a fraud, although on the whole I don't see much beyond a mutual admiration society.

[Matt_Bernius]

Ditto Dave's point. The organization seems to be the usual martial arts mutual appreciation society. There's nothing wrong with that. While we live in the post bullshido times, not every martial arts organization is filled with Ashida Kims. They Soke council is at worst harmless, much like the wide variety of Martial Arts hall of fames out there.

- Matt

[WotEvaYuKanDo]

Not everyone in the WHOFSC is a fraud

Not saying that this isn't true but why would anyone who is legitimate seek to associate themselves with it? What's to be got from affiliation apart from making yourself look like another fool? I've never seen this organisation discussed except as an object of derision.

[Wolf]

They do have members that are legitimate masters. However, I've heard that those members were just inducted to the WHOFSC as a means of adding them to the roster without really having their participation. Obviously to make the rest of them look more legitimate. I could be wrong about this though. It may just be a rumor.

[KenpoDavid]

Well, here's one way.

YOu train and study for a time, get some rank and some skill...

then someting happens. You move. Teacher moves. Catch teacher with your wife. Vice versa. Something bad nobody's fault but you fall out.

Now you want to continue your career in MA but you are alone. You've beena black belt for 6 years working hard with no master above you. What do you do?

One thing you can do is find a new mentor to guide your training, and give you smoe connection to teh MA community, who can test and evaluate you, and even promote you, and make you feel accepted and like you are part of someting bigger.

Another thing you could dois make up a bunch of crap and give yourself some rank.

Which way is better?

These organizations are not always a waste of time. I think of them like the Frateral Order of Eagles or the Rotary Club.

[Thomas]

I don't think the council "awards" any rank besides the title of "soke"... so if you have the money and the credentials (which can be gotten pretty easily I bet), you can join, I think.

I could see membership as being a way to enjoy their publicity/advertising, networking with other members, and the implied prestige that it offers (e.g. "If so-and-so is a member, it must be good")