Question for the instructors

[Cain]

Just felt I should start an interesting topic, seeing some posts on cross training and respect to the sifu etc....

If you are the instructor and your student is learning another art at the same time, do you object ot it or or you encourage it?

Also another scenario, if the student trains in another art simultaneously and if you honestly feel that the student had problems with learning the techs because of the different mechanics taught in the two schools how would you approach the situation?

Oh and just one thing, it's got nothing to do with me, just wanted an insight on how instructors feel about it :)

On to you,

|Cain|

[Chazz]

As long as it is not messing with his training in my school, I dont think i would have a problem.

If it was, i would just have a one on one talk with them and say that their skill has started to slack and they needed to either pick up the pace or think about what stye they wanted to study more and i would help them and back them in any decision they made.

[Clumsy Ninja]

I would challange my student's other instructor to a death match and the one still living gets to instruct the student:D


Okay okay I'm not an instructor, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night:rolleyes:

[Andrew Green]

It really would depend on the style, what they where doing and how the students was approaching it and there attitude about it.

If it was something that was very different from what we do, it might not be a issue.

If it was something similar, but with different mechanics that might cause them problems. Problem being they get beat for trying it, I'll tell them "those things don't work well here and here is why..."

Could also be a plus, if it does work in our environment bonus for them.

It is just something that needs to be looked at case by case.

[Andy Murray]

Put it this way!

Why should your Maths teacher object to you learning Geography?
So long as when you are in Maths class, you do what is asked of you.

Thre are Instructors who go on like this, but I can't think of any real reason, other than that they are insecure and/or financially motivated.

I personally have found that people who do crosstrain, make better students.

It's nice to have someone dedicate themselves to you as an Instructor, but any Instructor worth his salt want's to see his students reach their full potential.
That may well mean they need to crosstrain.
I'd rather point them in the right direction, than have them leave and join a bad Instructor just because I was so arrogant I believed I could blow Martial Wisdom in smoke rings out of my ass! :D

[Andrew Green]

Andy, I agree to a point, but crosstraining can cause problems.

Imagine coaching boxing and having a student crosstrain in a really traditional karate. They start drilling him to chamber at the hip, stand in deep stances and remain flat footed. Now this student gets in the ring and starts chambering (not all the way, but enough) punches and standing flat footed, this student is now a danger to himself.

Cross training can be good, but it can also be bad.

[Andy Murray]

Yeah,
and if he's like a Transvestite, and often goes out in short skirts n high heels, he'll most likely walk funny, and that'll affect his Thai Kick too. :D

Why would someone crosstrain Karate and Boxing???

[Andrew Green]

LOL

Who knows, but it is done.

[Jim]

I have three reasons why I don't allow cross training to students:

1. not allowed by our constitution (which they agree to abide by when signing the indemnity sheet),
2. in the past where I've allowed it I've always had the 'x instructor on Monday nights says this, what do you have to say on the topic...'. Which is just another way of saying 'I'm a lazy bugger who wants to say he's training in 12 different MA's but doesn't actually want to train in them', and
3. I accually believe that a 'student' doesn't have the ability to determine what is better for them. I teach what I teach, when I want and when I believe a person is ready for it. It sounds arrogant when spaced out plainly like that but if I allowed anyone to walk into my class and say 'I'm not interested in that throwing stuff, I just want the groundwork bit' or whatever combo is in fashion at the time, pretty soon I wouldn't have any quality students/instructors at all.

Feel free to flame me now, I know I'm not in the popular majority.

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Jim
I have three reasons why I don't allow cross training to students:



I respect your opinion far too much to flame you Jim, but you don't allow your students to crosstrain?

You feel that Judo holds all the answers?

How would you deal with a student who is not a mere beginner, who has a lot of knowledge of other systems, but want's to find out if you have anything that might improve his/her ability?

[YODA]

I'm shocked!

I have three reasons why I don't allow cross training to students:

It's like going to a car showroom and being told that if you buy a Ford then your not alowed to drive any other cars. LOL!

This is ludicrous - I can't believe students are dumb enough to abide by that. Maybe they just lie?

[Andrew Green]

I agree, but saying don't put Honda part in it or it will explode is acceptable :D

[Cain]

LOL! :D

Maybe we misunderstood Jim's point....

Jim - would you allow cross training if it was'nt interfering with the student's, that's the main thing I was focused on, with the student having probs cross training.....like cross training in tkd and MT with chambering in TKD which isn on existant in MT....

|Cain|

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by cain_charlie
LOL! :D

would you allow cross training if it was'nt interfering with the student's, that's the main thing I was focused on, with the student having probs cross training.....like cross training in tkd and MT with chambering in TKD which isn on existant in MT....

|Cain|

There's the question!

[i] Originally posted by Jim[/]

3. I accually believe that a 'student' doesn't have the ability to determine what is better for them. I teach what I teach, when I want and when I believe a person is ready for it. It sounds arrogant when spaced out plainly like that but if I allowed anyone to walk into my class and say 'I'm not interested in that throwing stuff, I just want the groundwork bit' or whatever combo is in fashion at the time, pretty soon I wouldn't have any quality students/instructors at all.

Jim

I'm glad this has come up, because this is exactly what I was considering doing personally, that is, go to a Judo class just for ground fighting practice. I don't want to do throws and standup, because I have worn discs in my back, and nerve problems as a result.

Technically, I'd be a student, but while you may hold the knowledge that I want, I'm sure I have the ability to determine what's best for me.

[morphus]

I personally think that some cross training in other arts is good.
It should'nt be difficult learning two arts at the same time. But it's the mixing of the techniques that takes time & practice. That can be done in your own time or in which ever art is more flexible with the way it trains.

The art i do does advicate cross training but i say it doesn't matter, what harm can it do. If the techniques of both arts conflict it should be pretty clear you've picked two that may not mix - & maybe you should try another art to compliment either one........all down to the individual choice!

[Tosh]

I would hope my students cross train, not only in other arts but with other instructors.

Fair enough i would always hope they would see me as thier first and only instructor but that is determined by how much I improve and can continually tech them things.

I'm sure there never going to be a point where I can say "I've got all the answers".

So crosstrain? Yes. Bottom line is a have to improve my own game to try and give them the answers, that's why I am attempting to attend Aikido.

[gingerninja]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
Why would someone crosstrain Karate and Boxing???

cos the karate uppercut is a load of c**p:D

[Tosh]

Originally posted by gingerninja
cos the karate uppercut is a load of c**p:D

Bwahahahahahh, I'm saying nothing! ;)

[gingerninja]

Originally posted by tosh_spice
Bwahahahahahh, I'm saying nothing! ;)

Wise......Oh so very wise.:D

I'm always getting in trouble for flooring my sparring partners with my BOXING uppercut.

Mind you I still have my TKD defeating technique............The Sweep :D :D

BAAAAAWOOOOOGAAHHHHHHHH, I say

[Jim]

Andy, I'd recommend you go to a BJJ class in preference to a Judo class in this circumstance. They openly avocate cross training. I don't believe that Judo holds all the answers, that's why the system I do has Judo, JiuJitsu, Ido (Kung Fu/Tai Chi) and Pankration as a blended hybrid form.

I typed my opinions and my reasons for having those 'rules' but there is, of course, exeptions to every rule.

Yes, Dave, people do 'buy' that from me. As I said those are rules that they agree to when they sign the indemnity forms. If I didn't believe them and they were training elsewhere I'd have to believe that they were trafficing drugs or beating their wives. Distrust never really ends.

The main reason for me really is that I don't like the second point (ie. Dojo 'players'). I've got better things to do with my time than play the 'my Dad's bigger than your Dad' game.

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Jim
Andy, I'd recommend you go to a BJJ class in preference to a Judo class in this circumstance. They openly avocate cross training. I don't believe that Judo holds all the answers, that's why the system I do has Judo, JiuJitsu, Ido (Kung Fu/Tai Chi) and Pankration as a blended hybrid form.



Jim,

how did these styles get blended if not by cross training in the first place?

[Andrew Green]

Sorry Jim, But I gotta go against you on this.

Not letting students train elsewhere is one of the top signs I'd look for in places to avoid.

I wouldn't buy from a store that wouldn't let me shop around, or eat at a place that wouldn't let me go to other restraunts.

I agree that people can't really dictate what they want to learn, at least not with a group class. Although they should be able to sit out on things they can't do.

But if they are doing private lessons, they should be able to choose what they do for the most part.

[Jim]

Where did the hybird styles come from? That answers itself and I know it was a rhetorical question.

Andrew, the new thread you started says the same thing that I was saying earlier. I am happy that we have a 'D' system.

People SHOULD have a core style and (later) branch out to work on what they're lacking. The only part I have a problem with is when to shop around. I would have difficulty with a student starting with me and then want to train within the first year with another instructor because they felt our system flawed.

If they haven't tried other things by the 5-8th year with me I would be pushing them out the door to go try something.

Odd that nobody else has come forward from 'my' corner. Am I that much in the minority?

[Andy Murray]

Hi Jim,

even if we all spent three hours on each post trying to express ourselves flawlessly, someone would still pick a hole in it ( AG :D ).
I certainly made a poor assumption, because I believed you only did Judo, and that's despite looking at your profile and website.


I'd like to re-phrase Cains questions then, more specifically;


1/ Do you encourage or prohibit your students to cross train?

2/ Why?

3/ If you felt that cross training was hampering a students performance in your system, how would you deal with it?

[Tosh]

Originally posted by gingerninja
Wise......Oh so very wise.:D

I'm always getting in trouble for flooring my sparring partners with my BOXING uppercut.



I'm always getting in trouble for my "Jerry springer" bitch slap!

So that's why we learn to jump high...... to avoid sweeps!!!!


Must ask Grnadmaster rhee that one! :D

[Andrew Green]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
Hi Jim,

even if we all spent three hours on each post trying to express ourselves flawlessly, someone would still pick a hole in it ( AG :D ).

:Angel:

[gingerninja]

Originally posted by tosh_spice
I'm always getting in trouble for my "Jerry springer" bitch slap!

So that's why we learn to jump high...... to avoid sweeps!!!!


Must ask Grnadmaster rhee that one! :D

Well that brings you to eye level:p

FFFFNNAAAAAAAAARRRRR I also, say


Have you noticed that nearly all of the instructors at HWU are runts:D

[Tosh]

Originally posted by gingerninja

Have you noticed that nearly all of the instructors at HWU are runts:D

Again, that's why I learnt to jump high! :P

[Andy Murray]

*Ahem*

The thread???

[gingerninja]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
*Ahem*

The thread???

Errr......Yep,
A instructor should let you train with whom ever the student chooses.

The Idea of Traditional karate was this. You learn a whole system (kata) under a instructor, take from it what is best for your abilities and then move on to another instructor who has same other skill you require.

In this regard what Bruce Lee said about taking a bit of this and a bit of that and making your own truth was nothing new. All he did was cut through all the BS of modern martial arts.

I personnaly like having a large range of instructors, especially if their skills and teaching methods complement each other.

[Cain]

Tosh you mentioned you would encourage crosstraining but how would you deal with it if the student has problems with adapting?

|Cain|

[Tosh]

Originally posted by cain_charlie
Tosh you mentioned you would encourage crosstraining but how would you deal with it if the student has problems with adapting?

|Cain|


As far as I am concerned then this shouldn't really happen unless you are being crazily strict. My job, as an instructor, is to teach the student the techniques of my art. How they choose to use them, or whichever one works for them best is ultimately thier own decision when it comes down to the crunch.

Now let's take TKD & Muay Thai as an example (Having not practised Muay Thai and only going on what I've read here so forgive me if wrong)

Say a student finds that not chambering his leg in the traditional TKD way gives him more power. Great!! I'll continue to try and teach the TKD way but at the end of the day if that's what works better for them then fine.

At the end of the day if they are learning 100 arts but can display the TKD technique to a satisfactory level then fine I'll put them forward to grade. Okay, maybe he/she isn't going to be the greatest TKD practitioner ever but at least they are commited enough to learn and understand.

If the student is commited enough they are going to be able to display many different techniques they have learned to a certain degree. Maybe some work better, others not so good.

Arguably, some people are worse at doing this. So fair enough they might advance in one art quicker than the other. I'm here to impart knowledge not force feed people. Like I've said before I see MA as a toolbox with styles being the tools. TKD =Hammer, Aikido= Wrench, JKD= 124 Piece Socket set with Screwdriver & Philips attachments and really small Alan Keys :D :D :D

I think that answers the question?? I hope this proves I don't give belts for money!! He he!

P.s. A number of my students train at the Aikido club and Karate (i think?) at the Uni. I have Keine Probleme with that. I would have one if students came back to me with "My <insert MA here> instructor says TKD is crap because......." That's when I'd have a problem. But that's more to do with the instructor than the art.

Just ma 2 grapefruits worth! :D

[teacher]

Perhaps some instructors would rather their students spent some time getting to understand some of their art ( a year say) before they start something else. It really cant be rewarding to have to stop and explain that we do it this way because..
Perhaps if a student decides to try another style at the same time they should be prepared to keep their questions on hold until they have got to know both quite well. How long would that take?

[gingerninja]

Originally posted by tosh_spice
P.s. A number of my students train at the Aikido club and Karate (i think?) at the Uni.

No TKD at HWU Karate mate, scared them all off when they realised the gingerfruitcake in the corner doesn't pull his techniques:p

[darlph]

Tosh, some good points there. We teach other styles besides TKD here. Especially in the self defense area as the student get higher in rank. A little Akido, Judo, ect. As instructors, we attend seminars frequently to find "new" techniques and such. If you are a beginning student here and a beginning student elsewhere, the possibilities of trouble are endless. Perhaps learning a new style of MA after you're an upper rank, like black, in another style would be best. We have several instructors all trained the same way and a few cross trained from other similar styles. You don't have the same instructor every class.
Remember, sometimes you have to weed out the bad and keep the best working techniques. Bruce Lee was actually using a blended style. And he was remarkable.
Think of this, perhaps your style doesn't teach weapons and you want to learn the escrima. You like your style and you don't want to leave. You find a school where you have to start at the beginning to get to learn the weapon. Be up front with both instructors. You may find them respecting you more for your honesty and be willing to work it out for you. Using a little deceit may lose you both. If they are smart, they will see you as a possible asset to their schools.

[bishu-ronin]

i was recently in the same situation of two schools
one knew and th other did
the other found out and said that i have to choose
he made me choose only because i signed a contract with him(like an idiot) so i have to stay with this b.s. style now until i am a black belt.
that brings another point too, dont sign contracts!

[YODA]

Originally posted by bishu-ronin
i was recently in the same situation of two schools
one knew and th other did
the other found out and said that i have to choose
he made me choose only because i signed a contract with him(like an idiot) so i have to stay with this b.s. style now until i am a black belt.
that brings another point too, dont sign contracts!


Would you like fries with that black belt :D

[Tosh]

Originally posted by gingerninja
No TKD at HWU Karate mate, scared them all off when they realised the gingerfruitcake in the corner doesn't pull his techniques:p

Ha ha.

Come to think of it there's a Kickboxer, some WTF guys a Kung Fu'ist. Think we had a Ninja at one point too!

[Tosh]

Originally posted by darlph
Tosh, some good points there. We teach other styles besides TKD here. Especially in the self defense area as the student get higher in rank. A little Akido, Judo, ect. As instructors, we attend seminars frequently to find "new" techniques and such.

See here coul dopen up a different kettle of fish. now I would say I know a few techinques form different arts an dhave been shown some joint locking and throwing from TKD some from Hapkido.

M point of view is I haven't bene "taught to teach" if you see my pont. Hopefully , someday when I've got somme more experience of them I'll pass these techniques on. However, me mis-teaching them now to my students is even more dangerous than not teaching them at all!

Hey I'm a young instructor plenty of years to gan experience! Hopefully, I'll still be round here to tell the tale! :D

[Jim]

Who'd have thought outta all the posts this one question from CC would have so much action?

In case I've been misunderstood I'd like to say on my own defence that I've never liked any other style I've seen. I personally have trained with MANY other systems but have found them wanting. I'd LIKE to be proven wrong so I could go back to being a white belt and not worry about any more lesson plans, but I just haven't found it (yet).

Let's just pose these set of questions in another context to see where it gets us...

If you are married and your spouse is having 'relations' with someone else at the same time, do you object ot it or or you encourage it?

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Jim

If you are married and your spouse is having 'relations' with someone else at the same time, do you object ot it or or you encourage it?

If it meant I could freely do the same, then no problem. :D

I know you mentioned a signed Contract Jim, so hence your Marriage Vow Analogy (Don't do it guys!).

It'd be a bit closer if you were saying;

"You must not look at other men"

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Jim

People SHOULD have a core style and (later) branch out to work on what they're lacking. The only part I have a problem with is when to shop around. I would have difficulty with a student starting with me and then want to train within the first year with another instructor because they felt our system flawed.

If they haven't tried other things by the 5-8th year with me I would be pushing them out the door to go try something.

Odd that nobody else has come forward from 'my' corner. Am I that much in the minority?

I will agree with that, it sounds far more reasonable than the original post of "YOU MUST NOT....." ;)

Thats the way I would recommend someone train, to get a core in one style then after a good grounding in that add another to their arsenal.

I don't think its a particularly bad thing to train in more than one style, other than you won't appreciate the differences without learning the core, but, if you have the time and motivation to train more hours per week then good!

It could be argued cross training is different when your main style is slighty MMA like this?

[Andrew Green]

Originally posted by Jim

If you are married and your spouse is having 'relations' with someone else at the same time, do you object ot it or or you encourage it?

If you owned a McDonalds and found out some of the customers ate at other restraunts as well would you have any right to object?

[Candito]

Originally posted by Jim
Where did the hybird styles come from? That answers itself and I know it was a rhetorical question.

Andrew, the new thread you started says the same thing that I was saying earlier. I am happy that we have a 'D' system.

People SHOULD have a core style and (later) branch out to work on what they're lacking. The only part I have a problem with is when to shop around. I would have difficulty with a student starting with me and then want to train within the first year with another instructor because they felt our system flawed.

If they haven't tried other things by the 5-8th year with me I would be pushing them out the door to go try something.

Odd that nobody else has come forward from 'my' corner. Am I that much in the minority?



As i say,

Why learn to throw a kick when you cant yet throw a punch.


I train in a semi-hybrid system also.
Though my instructor doews in no way limit or halt his students progress and wich paths they (me) choose to go, its simply stupid skipping from one art to the next finding somthing.

Get good at one thing.. then as you said.-- branch out.

I my self do Arnis-BJJ-Kendo-Kick boxing and Karate.
Its everything i need for my fitness, strength, dexterity, blocks-throws-grabs-knife fighting- knife defence- etc etc i could go on.. but all this by the one Sensei does not mean cross traning, imo
cross traning is where its multiple arts from multiple instructors..

At least with hybrid systems the same sensaei who knows your ability can accomodate to your diffrent levels.

Im with Jim.

[Candito]

Also.. some of the examples made from the situation are way out of line..



You have nothing to loose by eating at either restaraunt.. its your choice.. your free to choose and when you do make the decision you dont loose experiance.. or gain any.. completely out of context there mate.

BUT


If you eat at maccas regulary.. you get to know what there meals are.. there deals etc.. and thus you are comfortable with going there and being confident in your choices... Much the same as this topic.. Start with one ... settle.. moove on..


You go to both and you never settle (if you are a begginer) because you dont yet know the one form.. (this is assuming you go to a ..say... Karate and boxing ) imo dosent work.

Lets keep open minds here,
If the student is a complete newb and he crosstrains all that he is really doing is wasting your time.. sure ok he wants a fell for what he wants.. but if he dosent decide soon enough he will become confused and muddled up with his stances/ strikes etc.

[Jim]

I'd like to comment, but I'm not allowed to post on this thread any more :(

[Cain]

Huh!? Why?

Do it Jim, I will be guarding with a shotgun in here :D

|Cain|

[Candito]

Originally posted by Jim
I'd like to comment, but I'm not allowed to post on this thread any more :(


Its ok mate.. i know arrogent people dont like people speaking freely on there forums.

I mean hell wouldent it be IDEAL if we all thought the same way as forums admins and mods HAHA ye right wake up..
We should be able to speak whatever is on our mind ( within reason)
without any limitations..
Thats why we call these things FORUMS its where people (beleive it or not) WRITE our opinions ,ideas etc.

Im sorry you cant reply :<

btw you from oz? where abouts.. pm me

[Andy Murray]

Candito, chill out.

No-ones told Jim he can't post here.

Everyone can say WHAT they want, WHEN they want, so long as it does not contain profanity or pornography.

I think you must have us mixed up with some other forum.

The Mods here consider Jim a mate, so take a minute and read it all again.

If the staff here were as heavy handed as you are making out, I'd have deleted your post, banned you, and sent your IP address to a malicious hackers forum.

Nice Intro.

[Cain]

Yeah Candito, methinks you are taking it too seriously, chll out -it ain't as bad as you think :D

|Cain|

[Jim]

and sent your IP address to a malicious hackers forum.
Aha! That explains a lot! :D

BTW, I'm just joking (as those of you who know me would have guessed). Look at some of the other topics I've posted in and you'd get it (hopefully). However, this is the thread that got me in trouble last time so I tend not to comment in here that often. Angels fear to tread and all that... ;)

[Andy Murray]

A simple missunderstanding Jim.

It happens. ;)

[Candito]

1. It wasent my first post


2. 203.168.87.11



3. No effect

[Cain]

Umm....I would advise removing your ip mate, the mods can get it regardless of wether you post it....but you don't want some script kiddie looking for some random box to mess your pc up do you?

|Cain|

[Candito]

Haha i have 22 Chained Proxy's going through a 7 chain cisco router sustem,

God luck, not good.

Ill be listening on various ports for any attempts to return the favour-exept succeed.

[mattsylvester]

Boxing to develop the stamina and punching skills and karate to study the pressure points, kata, less contact sport, (boxing bloody hurts :)) locks etc (and to view the chamber as something completely different to a 'chamber). I did both TKD and boxing training and boy do you get fit quick!

Originally posted by Andy Murray
Yeah,
and if he's like a Transvestite, and often goes out in short skirts n high heels, he'll most likely walk funny, and that'll affect his Thai Kick too. :D

Why would someone crosstrain Karate and Boxing???

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by mattsylvester
Boxing to develop the stamina and punching skills and karate to study the pressure points, kata, less contact sport, (boxing bloody hurts :)) locks etc (and to view the chamber as something completely different to a 'chamber). I did both TKD and boxing training and boy do you get fit quick!

That's such a 'teed' up opportunity to offer a little reality check it hurts me to restrain myself.

Go enjoy this fine weather, and be thankful. :D

[mattsylvester]

Please Andy, don't hold back on my behalf! :)

Originally posted by Andy Murray
That's such a 'teed' up opportunity to offer a little reality check it hurts me to restrain myself.

Go enjoy this fine weather, and be thankful. :D

[Shadowchild]

I cross train. Kickboxing, a very traditional stlye of ju-jitsu, and quite a modern aggressive style. Works for me. I find it to be a big ying-yang thing!

[oldcelt]

I am totally in favor of cross training...

I teach WMA and all of my students have an eastern background of some sort and some still pursue the training....I find that it only serves to enhance their ablity to grasp the Western training in my school.

If you are truely set out to become a "warrior", then learn as much as you can from any and all sources you come across. Eventually you will blend it together and create your own individual style.

Oldcelt....

[Thomas]

At our school we do teach two different styles and cross training (and testing) in both is encouraged. For students who want to cross-train OUTSIDE of our school, we request that you clear it with our master first because following:

(1) Traditional ettiquette says that you should ask for permission from your master before training with anyone else...

(2) The master probably knows someone who can teach you those new skills quite well... and knows those people to avoid.

(3) The master can make sure that the styles don't conflict and can give advice on integrating new skill sub-sets into your style.

(4) The master and other instructors can offer advice on what to learn, where to look, and so on.

(5) At the lower levels, sometimes it's more important for students to master the basics before moving on to various and more difficult techniques. The master may recommend waiting a bit before cross training.

As a personal side note, our master has never refused people from cross training and has really endorsed cross training. Students who go somewhere else for a while usually return and give a diemonstration of new techniques and such so we all can get some new ideas. (Actually we have a seminar coming up in a few weeks that the master has recommended and will be attending...)

[booksie_girl]

Approximately how long should you wait before starting cross-training? I mean from beginning your first MA. I don't have time to start something else now, but am thinking about it for the future.

[Jim]

About 3 years IMO

[johndoch]

Quote "Approximately how long should you wait before starting cross-training? I mean from beginning your first MA. I don't have time to start something else now, but am thinking about it for the future."

Whenever you feel ready. If you've got a thirst for it go for it.

I don't like this "I will disrespect my master/teacher by going to another school". It stinks, teachers should realise that the student comes first and if they want to spread their wings and try new things or even leave the club altogether then that is their choice.

[oldcelt]

I have to say that while I do endorse cross-training, if you are just starting out in a particular "eastern" style, it can be mentally confusing and may even hamper your progress if you start another "eastern" style at the same time.

This would be the only reason I would hesitate.....as far as teachers and respect, I feel that teachers owe it to their students to not be so full of themselves as to create a "guilt complex" when it comes to cross-training.

But then again....I am an American and we seem to feel differently about such things.....

[YODA]

Originally posted by booksie_girl
Approximately how long should you wait before starting cross-training? I mean from beginning your first MA. I don't have time to start something else now, but am thinking about it for the future.


When I started at High School we started classes in English, French, Physics, Maths etc all at the same time - funny, I never found myself trying to write maths formulae in French or add up verbs in English classes.

The human brain is a natural multi-tasking marvel!

[jmd161]

Well i would have no problem with it as long as it did'nt hinder his/her training with me.I myself don't like cross training because i feel i can use that time to better understand my main art.But that's just my thoughts for me.At the same time my sifu tells us to take the good stuff from other styles and trash the rest.

Well if it was causing problems i would approach him/her and let them know.I would look for ways to try and fix the problem.If i could'nt then i would let them know that i'm not into wasting my time.They need to choose what they want to do.Some teachers would put up with it to keep the students money,but it's not about the money for me.

jeff:)

[Thomas]

Originally posted by booksie_girl
Approximately how long should you wait before starting cross-training? I mean from beginning your first MA. I don't have time to start something else now, but am thinking about it for the future.

Without trying to open up a big debate on the amount of time it takes to get a black belt in different styles, I will write what my master told me:

Find a style, instructor and system that you like, treat this as your base system and learn it well. After you reach a level, such as 1st dan (in TKD), then begin looking for things that may be missing or that you would like to add to your arsenal. At that point is when you should look into cross-training.

As I wrote before, my master endorses cross training. He would prefer that studenst wait until red or black belt before trying to absorb a different style, but at the same time always recommends upcoming seminars and offers cross training in the dojang. Some cross training at any level is good, but intensive cross-training should wait until you are comfortable in a core style.

[tai-gip]

I think students need to experiance other styles to make them more complete and to insure they are where they want to be i have always looked at it that when you learn a particular style you are in fact just learning to defend against being attacked by someone whos practises said style because you know what they do and how they can/will attack where as a practiosioner of another style has completely un-expected moves when you learn how to perform style specific moves you understand the variable of the format in which they can be used against you hence you can defend or at least have a greater understanding and sence of positioning/balance

[cmaauk]

Having trained in Traditional Karate, Ju-Jitsu and Muay Thai at the same time i have to say i encourage my students to cross train. This, after all, did me no harm and eventually led to the formation of my own style and the CMAA.
As long as the student respects the difference between styles and Dojo's then i don't see a problem.
An open mind is a good thing, besides if you try to tell students what they should and should not do in their own time they will most likely leave anyway. It is thier choice to train at your club / dojo. Some people forget that.

Andrew Morrell
Cobra Martial Arts Association
www.cmaa.co.uk

[Mike Clark]

Originally posted by YODA
When I started at High School we started classes in English, French, Physics, Maths etc all at the same time - funny, I never found myself trying to write maths formulae in French or add up verbs in English classes.

The human brain is a natural multi-tasking marvel!

If the systems are similar them some degree of overlapping can occur. I have students who have trained in other disciplines and perform some move with an emphasis different to what I do/teach my self. I feel comfortable with that and it poses no threat to me. Usually it the student who gets frustrated.

As a teacher my responsibility is to do my best for my students. I don’t have all the answers, no one does. We are different heights, weights, temperament etc etc so martial arts should fit the person, not the other way round. I advise my students that they should have at least three teachers.

Although I teach a classical art – Goju Ryu, I pass on the teaching as I was taught, plus my own discoveries and expect the student to do the same. Otherwise we end up with clones without understanding

Regards
:)

[Kwajman]

Hey bootsie! You KNOW everyone worships you as the cutest MA babe on here, so you can train as you wish!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gojuman]

The study and teaching that I participate in is so eclectic it seem likes inter-school cross training if I can make up the term. The problem arises when students say they only want certain aspects of what we (I) offer to embelish their own thing. We had visitors come from a TKD school who seemed very interested in joining our class and we would have welomed them openly until they said that they only wanted to come for certain classes like weapons and selfdefense that they did not have at their other school. If they had embraced all we teach and combined it with what ever else they wanted it would be totally cool, but they wanted to pick and chose. I don't think that that is the best way to learn.
By the way my style is USA GOJU

[ballistic]

i think i would only have a problem if that student didnt teach me what they had learned at their other training sessions

[E-Rocker]

My instructor actively encourages us to cross train. Personally I would not study under an instructor who wouln't "let" me cross train. But that's just me :).

Incidentally, learning both Panantukan (a Filipino empty-hand art) and Jun Fan helps me understand each art's trapping better.

[Goat]

I am an advocate of cross training. As for myself I attended a TKD school until reaching the level of 1st deg. Black. Afterwards I decided to increase my Martial arts skills by learning another Martial art discipline I choose Shoalin Kung Fu. It is important to note that not only did I seek guidance from my sensei as to my desire to learn a different discipline; I also asked his permission before doing so as a sign of respect. I also fully informed my Sifu that I was looking to further my skills thru training in another art but was not willing to stop my training in my first school. Over the next several years I was not only able to gain a brown sash in Kung Fu (my current belt) but was able to continue my training and receive a 3rd deg. Black Belt in TKD. Both my teachers have understood this. In times where one discipline required extended training (i.e. preparation for an exam) I concentrated more on one than the other. Learning a different approach has not only help me but as made me a better teacher. I have incorporated some aspects of TKD into Kung Fu by helping my Kung Fu brothers in the area of sparring techniques. I have helped my TKD students by incorporating stretches and conditioning exercises from Kung Fu into my TKD classes which as been met with great enthusiasm by my fellow classmates. I see nothing wrong with cross training but do believe that one should reach a certain level of achievement in one before training in another.

[Thomas]

Nice post... I bet you and I would fit well into eachother's classes! :D

[shotokanwarrior]

They have no right to object. If my sensei told me I wasn't allowed to cross train, I'd tell him to kiss my ass.

[wcrane]

You would tell your instructor to kiss yor ass? And you would say this to his face?

[Bograt]

I had a student come to me some time ago and said they where thinking of taking up ju-jitsu as well as taking my class. My responce was ( "GREAT" ) I have no problem with my students cross training as I have done for many years. I would object if the other instructor doing a similar style wanted to teach a different stance etc and used my stance as a way to so no you don't want to stand like this or punch like that in a way that was pulling my system to pieces without saying I want you to stand, punch like this at this club because our styles are different, and standing punching that way may place you at a disadvatage in our style. ( Does that make sence????? ) example Kickboxing Mui Tai ( can never remember how to spell that word )i both stand different and throw many techniques diferently. So If a student came to my club from a mui-tai club I would teach the stance for my style but respect the other stance and explain the differances to the student whilst telling them leave mui-tai at the other club whilst your here.

[lock1uk]

if some one wanted to cross train i would say go ahead a do it if you have the money.

if you have conflict in techniques want you can do is get the student to try both and pick which one they thinks is better.but most of all dont look a head look all around you and see it for youself.life take you along diffrent paths and so does Martial arts. :Angel:

[Bograt]

Having trained in Traditional Karate, Ju-Jitsu and Muay Thai at the same time i have to say i encourage my students to cross train. This, after all, did me no harm and eventually led to the formation of my own style and the CMAA.
As long as the student respects the difference between styles and Dojo's then i don't see a problem.
An open mind is a good thing, besides if you try to tell students what they should and should not do in their own time they will most likely leave anyway. It is thier choice to train at your club / dojo. Some people forget that.

Andrew Morrell
Cobra Martial Arts Association
www.cmaa.co.uk

Hi Andy fancy meeting you here, I'm Still working hard for my Dan grades :) :) :) :) :)