Board Breaking

[Paratus]

I'm only about a belt away before I'll have to start breaking boards. I was wondering if anyone had any special tips. I know different ways the board is held is a factor, and I generally hear its mostly speed.......
Thanks for the help

[KickChick]

You'll find alot of discussion on the subject of "breaking" or "destruction" )as it is sometimes referred to as.... here on this thread Destruction/Power Testing (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1477&highlight=Destruction)

It's first and foremost ... all in the technique!

Your instructor I'm sure will walk you through your first board break. It is quite intimidating at first.... but your first break will instill confidence for subsequent attempts!

[Paratus]

Thanks for the help, I'll ask my instructer

[cyclepath]

Breaking boards, my advice dont. Thats why god invented power tools.

Time for a bit of controversy!! What is the point of breaking boards etc, what actualpurpose does it serve in relation to the application of a technique in a real time situation?

[PsiCop]

well, it measures how good you do a technique by combining strength, speed, technique and concentration. Board breaking is merely a test/scale to use in seeing how effective certain strikes are. For example, if you realize that you can only break a single board with a punch, but can break two of them without spacers, with an elbow strike, then you may want to consider using a closer strategy in a street fight because the elbow strike is more powerful.

Now I'm going to get into the technicalities of breaking. breaking a standard 12" wide-1" thick board takes about 100 pounds of pressure. However, breaking 2 boards without spacers, as mentioned above, takes 300 pounds of pressure. You'd think it's be 200, but it's only an illusion. when 2 boards don't have spacers, you can consider them a single 2" thick board. That's basically all it is.

Now for tips. First make sure you have good technique to keep from injuring yourself. Second, try to hit 1 or 2 inches PAST the board. the theory behind this is that you're not hitting the board, you're going through it and hitting an inch or two behind it. This can also be applied logically to any real life fight. Third, dont think that there's a board there. I try to imagine a person in its place. That way you aren't so intimadated. Fourth, speed is very important. Don't do what many men do when first learning breaking. They'll tighten up all their muscles trying to use brute strength in breaking. This is very ineffective, because you aren't getting enough velocity and speed to swiftly go through the board. Sure a real big guy might still be able to break one or two boards this way, but a person half his size can use speed and break 3 of them with the same technique.

Hope these tips were helpful.

[Andrew Green]

I don't like breaking and haven't done it for years, waist of perfectly good boards...

But go through it, commit to it, do not hesitate or doubt it. If it doesn't break it will hurt, if it does break it won't, so break it on the first strike. It is not really that hard, With about 30 seconds training most people could break a board fairly easily.

[Jazman]

broken rebreakabel ones with a punch, not much really, feels like hitting a piece of styrafoam! of course that is because I am insane, heh heh heh...

[cyclepath]

Fair points but how is that relevant to a real punch or kick, people move about boards dont.

Surely the the true way to test a strike would be to hit a moving board that wasnt fixed down, as thts what hiting a real person in combat is like.

[craigwarren]

Isnt breaking a measure of weather a technique is used properly.

Ie if you dont do the technique properly, you wont have enough power to complete the break.

[KickChick]

Originally posted by cyclepath
Fair points but how is that relevant to a real punch or kick, people move about boards dont.

Surely the the true way to test a strike would be to hit a moving board that wasnt fixed down, as thts what hiting a real person in combat is like.

::yawn::.... been there, done that.....

You can break moving boards too!
Boards DO move if you toss them up and punch or raise overhead and let drop and do a kick.

Now talk about a true measure of technique .... which is really what board breaking is all about.

Much more discussion on the topic in the link I posted above.

I am a board breaking addict and PsiCop gave some great pointers. Start off with simple techniques of course and either 1/2 inch or 1 inch white pine boards. As a beginner it helps to dry your wood out... watch out for "sappy" boards. Look for wide grains and you can even bake them in the oven at 200 deg. overnight and wake up to a sweet pine smelling kitchen!
For advance breakers this is considered "cheating" :D :rolleyes:

[cyclepath]

Sorry still dont see the point of it. True measure of a technique, how? It is done in an artifical way against a piece of wood. To coin a phrase from a reasonably well known film boards dont hit back, and also i dont tend to have to defend myself against vicious pine or obnoxious oak.

Surely if your going to test a technique it should be against the thing your gonna hit, i.e. bone. You could easily get a sheeps skull from various sources, so why dont you try techniques out on them instead of wood?

Not tryin to be disrespectful just trying to understand the logic behind breaking.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by cyclepath
Sorry still dont see the point of it. True measure of a technique, how?



Hi cyclepath, now before I go off on a rant I advise you to read the start of the thread and go back to the link KickChick posted.

This is meant to avoid this thread turning into a "flog the dead donkey" episode.

Destruction /Power Testing (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1477)

It does have 136 replies!!

So if that doesn't answer your question, I'll post a quick one but further ones should be in the other thread :D (Trying to be a good MAP member ........sooooooooooook)

Breaking measures the techinque as in it measures the ability to hit a specific target with force with the correct tool. Before you go off on a "that's what sparrings for!" tangent how many back kicks to the chin would a compliant partner take before they would say "Yeah cool, your now definately knocking me out with those techniques!" Not many!

How can you ever test any striking techniques without literally looking for fights on the street??

[Andy Murray]

I am in the unfortunate position where I recognise both sides of the arguement here.

Yes I've done breaking, and yes, I can understand the arguements for and against.

I'd say in TKD, that breaking fulfills an important role!

Other systems and styles fulfill that need in other ways!

Tosh?

Are you saying Back kicks to the chin are a major weapon for you?

When you guys perform a break, how much time do you spend in preparation?

Can you just step up and break 5 x 2 inch boards without a thought?

Cyclepath?

How many 2 inch boards do you think you can break?

[cyclepath]

No idea, probably none, i did have a try on some of the rebreakable boards when i had a dabble at a TKD school a few years back, Wasnt particularly difficult to break and hurt a damn site less than when i hit someones elbow sparring a while back.

But i'd rather break my hand in fight defending myself than hitting piece of wood in a gym.

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by cyclepath
No idea, probably none but i'd rather break my hand in fight defending myself than hitting piece of wood in a gym.

Well shut the duck up till you've tried it, instead of vaguely quoting Bruce Lee!

[cyclepath]

Andy just edited my thread, as you can see i have tried breaking boards. Which kinda reinforced my beliefs about it.

As for quoting bruce lee, i didnt i quoted the script writer, i guess now someone is gonna tell me abour how bruce wrote the script!!!

[Andy Murray]

Hey C'Path,

The re-breakable boards are predictable.
2 inches of pine can vary a great deal, and when you stack them up, theres an exponential leap in what may or may not happen. Then of course, you can try that, when they are screwed tight into a metal frame.

True, there's also those that have all the sap baked out of them in an oven, but how do you tell until you hit them?

[cyclepath]

Dunno Andy, but think i'll stick to my version of breaking, involving women, text messages and a different kind of wood.

[Andy Murray]

Go on, put your mind at rest C'Path.

I'm sure we can find a TKD school in your vicinity that would indulge you? :D

[cyclepath]

Can i use an axe, or other such implement?

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by cyclepath
Can i use an axe, or other such implement?

Only if you'd normally use them whilst sparring. :D

[cyclepath]

Heh eheheh You have never seen me spar obviously!!! Ask Yoda about the belts and the carpet tiles.

[Jazman]

Isn't it just cool enough to break things? Do we really need a reason?

"Isnt breaking a measure of weather a technique is used properly.

Ie if you dont do the technique properly, you wont have enough power to complete the break."

Sorry to test this statement but I'm sure I could break boards in several ways with horrible technique. I could execute a HORRIBLE punch and still manage to break a board easily I'm sure, also with axe kicks and sidekicks... all it takes is a great amount of power. Of course it is easier to develop power with the right technique and I don't feel like having lousy technique.

[cyclepath]

From some bizzarre facet of my soul i need a taniglbe reason to do something.

As for being cool big collared flowery shirts and bell bottoms were cool in the seventies, dont see too many people wearing em now!!!

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Jazman

Sorry to test this statement but I'm sure I could break boards in several ways with horrible technique. I could execute a HORRIBLE punch and still manage to break a board easily I'm sure, also with axe kicks and sidekicks... all it takes is a great amount of power.


And of course you are talking about 1 or 2 wooden boards! Which unless are being used in stacks of 5+, for foot techiniques, is a waste of time and for beginners only. :)

When talking about boards, I do not consider wood to be of any great meseaure of power, i talk about re-breakable one that that break on a specific line, not pine which breaks anywhere along the grain of the wood.

Try breaking 5 re-breakable boards with no technique and see what happens!! :D

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Andy Murray

Tosh?

Are you saying Back kicks to the chin are a major weapon for you?



Insert punch, kick, thrust any strike you do in this statement. It was just to illustrate the point we can't do full-power strikes on the human body while avoiding injuries.



When you guys perform a break, how much time do you spend in preparation?



For my next grading I'm allowed no measure to the board. I've done drills where we stand in front of the holder switching stances as commanded then a pad is dropped, the aim is to complete the break before the pad hits the floor. That's the ultimate goal of breaking to deliver full power accuarate strikes with the correct tool at a moments notice.



Can you just step up and break 5 x 2 inch boards without a thought?

How many 2 inch boards do you think you can break?


Tall order for 10 Andy, I've only been in this game 8 years : ). However, I can confidently say i could break 5 inches of pine (against the proposed 10 :) ) With a "walk up and break" side-kick.

2 re-breakable boards is about my "walk up and do it" limit just now. but hey, aint that why I keep training.

P.s. This is shoes on and off! When am I going to use Kicks in bare feet.... unless sparring!

[stump]

<<<It was just to illustrate the point we can't do full-power strikes on the human body while avoiding injuries.
>>>

Punch bag?

I personally enjoy breaking. It serves absolutely no use but it's good fun

[cyclepath]

Guess we'll jst have to disagree on breaking. I see no correlation between hitting a piece of wood, preparing for it by measuring the strike and summoning your chi and then hitting it, to hitting a living breathing human being that hits back and has some rather harder sustance under the skin, bone i mean before anyone makes any smutty remarks, andmoves about rather a lot.

[Andy Murray]

TKD people see a need for it!

Can't we just respect that, seeing as we don't practice TKD?

[cyclepath]

Thats what i said, sort of I seen no reason, which doesnt preclude anyone else having a reason to do something.

Without individuality we'd all be walking round in in black overalls and saluting Chairman Mao.

[johndoch]

Is it possible to be so good at breaking that you could break a baseball bat as somebody swings it at you. :woo:

Now that would be cool

:cool:

[Andy Murray]

John, you've been hanging out with Trolls again!

http://www.egri.co.uk/smileys/tut.gif

[cyclepath]

Yes i belive that breaking a bat in such a way is possible. When you come round in the HDU afterwarde you could have a real sense of martial achevement!!

[Tosh]

Originally posted by cyclepath
Guess we'll jst have to disagree on breaking. I see no correlation between hitting a piece of wood, preparing for it by measuring the strike and summoning your chi and then hitting it, to hitting a living breathing human being that hits back and has some rather harder sustance under the skin, bone.


Nor do I see a correlation. Please don't make out that this is the line of argument I was making. I said breaking is the examination of the technique. IT IS NOT an examination of the technique against an opponent.

For the record, I do not:

A) Hit wood, unless it's a demo or an aerial technique

B) Measure okay on the bigger breaks i have to but that part of training. The more I practice the more I can break without measuring

c) "Summon my Chi" That's <radio edit>!! Which tells me you haven't really seen breaking implemented in the correct manner in a cirriculum.

I take it then you don't hit focus pads or punch bags because of the same reason that they don't hit back so what's the point??

Hey, at the end of the day, you are entitled to your opinion (at least you have one).

My gripe is when people with no experience of breaking or who blatentely take what they've seen/been taught in thier experience as gospel.

Man..... am I the only champion of breaking here? Sometimes feels like I'm flying solo :( ...... :D

[Cain]

It's kinda off topic but why anytime anyone asks about some kind of training and is countered by some hotshot saying "xxxxxx is not useful because it's not a replacement for sparring..."

They are just one of the ways to reach the end, sparring may be essential but it's not the only way!!!! Some prefer other methods!

Andy stay away from the ban button!!! I am on topic now!!! -

I never broke boards :D

|Cain|

[KickChick]

Originally posted by tosh_spice
Man..... am I the only champion of breaking here? Sometimes feels like I'm flying solo :( ...... :D

No .... can I be your co-pilot tosh???? You know how I love to break!!!


What I don't like doing (like you said) if to "flog the dead donkey" ...

[cyclepath]

Like i said we'll just have to agree to disagree!!!

Like i said i have tried breaking, the chi comment was just a flipant remark, no offence meant.

I take nothing as gospel, i have no respect for anyone or anything till it or they earn it. By-product of my job I'm afraid.

But thats what this forun is for in the end isn't it, discussion and the expression of opinions.

[Andy Murray]

Could I just point out that this thread was started by someone looking for advice on breaking!

I'm only about a belt away before I'll have to start breaking boards. I was wondering if anyone had any special tips. I know different ways the board is held is a factor, and I generally hear its mostly speed.......

So it's not a platform for all you bloody know-it-alls to fart your expertise all over the rest of us.

[cyclepath]

With all due respect Andy, i know nothing.

[Andy Murray]

CP, your post wasn't there when I was replying, so don't take that personally!

[Tosh]

Of course, discussion is healthy, especially when it allows me to erase some misconceptions about training methods which have been sooooo diluted they have become irrelevant. I'm sure every MA'ist has thier art misrepresented at some point. I'm just glad I get to stand at the front line sometimes!! :D

Originally posted by cyclepath

Like i said i have tried breaking, the chi comment was just a flipant remark, no offence meant.



Imagine me saying to you JKDC is just a Bruce Lee fan club! :D

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by tosh_spice



Imagine me saying to you JKDC is just a Bruce Lee fan club! :D

It's not? :eek:

Dave I want my money back, you promised me badges and stickers and everything :D

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
Could I just point out that this thread was started by someone looking for advice on breaking!

So it's not a platform for all you bloody know-it-alls to fart your expertise all over the rest of us.


Notice 3 pages back!! I said

"Don't make me Angry. You wouldn't like posts when i'm Angry!!"


Hi cyclepath, now before I go off on a rant I advise you to read the start of the thread and go back to the link KickChick posted.

This is meant to avoid this thread turning into a "flog the dead donkey" episode.

Destruction /Power Testing


I tried, really i tried!!!! :Angel:

[cyclepath]

When they said Bruce i thought they meant Springsteen. DOH!!!!

[Tosh]

Badges RAWK!

[Saz]

I've been told breaks are good for building confidence in students too. I've never done one, but we do practise them in our style, they're part of the Shodan gradings.

We tend to break roof tiles rather than wood. I don't know if that's because they're easier/harder to break, or just because my sensei is a builder and has a lot spare :)

[BlackBeltCookie]

I practice TAGB Tae Kwon do. Board breaking (re-breakable boards) used to be a part of training, and even gradings for those over 16. NO, they don't fight back. NO, they don't always move about. YES they do help you to focus the power and technique in the right direction. They also help you with foot shape. Try breaking just 1" with a turning kick without using the ball of your foot. Result? Broken toes or other shattered bones.

Years ago when I first tried TKD at 16, (before I gave up and re-started in later years) I was taught to break from 9th kup. By the time I was a green belt (6th kup) I was happily breaking 3" with a sidekick. At 17 that wasn't a bad feat I suppose.

Anyways, back to my point which is simple. Destruction may or may not be a part of your syllabus, but using focus pads, kick shields or punch/kick bags all perform the same purpose to help you to channel your power in the intended direction. Breaking boards gives you a point to focus on, and ultimately seeing the result of them splitting in two is kind of satisfying!! :)

[Fergie Boy]

Hit a little bit above centre.

[Paratus]

I had no idea my question on board breaking technique would cause such a long debate :D , but as I've learned just about anything can here at MAP ;)

[Cain]

Congragulations on your enlightment! :D

|Cain|

[Kwajman]

Breaking is my thing, confidence that you will do it is the most powerful concept I have used. I have done breaks set up my master that a year ago I would have NEVER considered possible. But with confidence.................:p

[Thomas]

At our school, we don't do a lot of breaking but do ahve mandatory breaks at all color change levels (except white to yellow) using a 1" pine board... e.g.
- yellow to green - front kick
- green to blue - side kick
-blue to red- back kick
-all red belt levels - spinning heel kick
This kicks are all done with 1" boards and as long as a student uses the right technique, they should break in a straightforward manner. The main idea is test confidence, focus, and technique for that kick.

At the dan levels, it changes. We usually have a multiple station break with or without multiple boards (NO spacers allowed). Those who are being tested are asked to set up their breaks, sometimes with a request from the master (last minute) such as "Hand technique" or "Spinning technique". We can opt for multiple boards if we choose. A key part of the evaluation is that we are supposed to set up breaks that we are no sure if we can do. There is no practice allowed.

At my 3rd dan test, I had a 5 station break, one with multiple boards. For me, who hasn't done breaks in a few years, I felt great afterwards. For me, in each break, there was the mental slow-motion aspect and the total awareness of my form and power... all within my control. In the words of my master the breaks were "totally focused and flawless". The feeling and focus meant a lot to me and taught me a bit about where my progress is and needs to work on.

Yeah, maybe the boards don't fight back, maybe you just don't agree with breaking, or maybe you don't feel you can learn from it. For me, challenging myself to difficult breaks and executing them well with no practice makes me just a little more sure of myself in my skills. You don't want to do breaks????? Don't. At our school we do.... so I do the absolute best I can.

[Spikedude]

hey sup dude,

if you want to know some really cool easy ways to break trying using a double ridge hand or anything that u really can think of just make up things as u go along trust me ur goin to pick it up after a break or two