Switching dojangs

[Silentalero]

Ok maybe I'm outta line, but I'm kinda in a bad situation here. I've been studying hapkido at my dojang for the last 2 years and things have been good, but lately in the last 4 months my master is more worried about staying in his office and making money than teaching us, he comes out to teach us a few techniques for literally 2 minutes maybe 2-3 times a week and runs back inside his office to sign up more people and is never around enough to answer questions. I have been stuck on the last 5 techniques for the last 4 months and it sucks. Yet I dont want to walk in his office and disrespect him and tell him to go out there and teach us something. Me and 3 other hapkido students are seriously tired of it and already have the info for the other school and it sounds ALOT better. They arent worried about making money off belt tests and charging for everything else. They are worried about giving you the training you need to get where you want to be.

Oh its a taekwondoe and hapkido dojang and there are no hapkido black belts there (me and the other 2 guys are on track to be the first black belts there.). All the black belts are taekwondoe and nobody else but my master knows hapkido. So even if the other instructors are around they cant teach us what we need to know. Am I outta line here?

[MaxG]

I had kinda the same problem about 10 years ago. I had an instructor who was very hard to reach. Very old school, he thought that the students should worship the ground he walked on kinda thing.

Bottomline. If the instruction isn't working for you then try somewhere else. Since there's another hapkido school nearby you should be able to progess fairly quickly and be back up to par in no time.

[ajs1976]

Me and 3 other hapkido students are seriously tired of it and already have the info for the other school and it sounds ALOT better. They arent worried about making money off belt tests and charging for everything else. They are worried about giving you the training you need to get where you want to be.

I would try to make sure it is a better place, and that they are not just telling you what you want to here.

[BoredNow]

Silentalero - are you paying for hapkido instruction? Are you receiving a quality of instruction that you think is right for the money you are paying?

If not have a polite word with your instructor, explaining your concerns. Wait and see if anything changes. If not, investigate the other place, if you decide to move then, well, your instructor has at least had a chance to make things better (or explain) and you have at least given reasons as to why you moved.

[Shihan]

I had kinda the same problem about 10 years ago. I had an instructor who was very hard to reach. Very old school, he thought that the students should worship the ground he walked on kinda thing.

Bottomline. If the instruction isn't working for you then try somewhere else. Since there's another hapkido school nearby you should be able to progess fairly quickly and be back up to par in no time.

I agree MaxG and Borenow

I had a similar problem. I was at my dojang for 6 years. Just got my BB. But I also have back problem. I spoke to my master about this because of all the falls and throws, and his only response was to drink more water and focus more. This is a man I would have followed through hell and back, but that answer just kinda irked me, so I left. I found a new school that doesn't emphasize falls and throws as much. And the master is concern with my health and well-being as well as good instruction. The bottom line is, in the end is it really what you want? Talk to your master. Be open and honest about your concerns. Be true to yourself.

[Legless_Marine]

[QUOTE=Silentalero]Ok maybe I'm outta line, but I'm kinda in a bad situation here. [QUOTE]

I think before you leave, it would be fair and proper to politely express your concerns to your instructor. Think of all of the time you've invested at this school - At least give it a chance to reform.

[Thomas]

Nice replies so far. I'd have to go with a discreet one-on-one (or with your other buddies as well) discussion on how you feel about not getting the training you need. In the end, if you are on track to be his first Hapkido black belts, he needs to ensure you are very well trained because you will at some point be helping him maintain and expand that program.

On a similar note... if he isn't paying attention to you now on you way to black belt, will he set up up a program designed to take you from 1st dan into more depth and study?

If it doesn't change, perhaps you should check out the other school and see what they offer.

If it seems disloyal, let me tell you about my first school: it was very highly recommended and I was introduced to the instructor by the local police captain. After I paid my first month's tuition, he found it easier to sit in the office and let yellow and green belts (!) run the class. I expressed my concerns, waited out the month, and tthen took a walk down the road to an instructor who was more concernd with the students he had then the potential money that new ones brought in.

[Blade3]

I would check out the other HKD school. 1. It's a plus that they teach HKD only compared to TKD & only your instructor knows HKD. That's probably why none of his BB know & your progressing so slow.
I have absolutely no problem with going to another system due to those circumstances.
If at all possible could you post the link to both schools?

Peace,
B3 aka BBJ

[Silentalero]

Hmm, well the school I'm at doesnt have a website. And the school im going to i beleive is www.hapkido.ws I'll have to check the flyer. The one on one is a good idea and i was thinking about doing that but just kinda nervous becasue i have respect for him and to tell him (not in so many words) your not doing anything is disrespectful but i know it needs to be done.


The other thing that bugs me about the school is #1 he found out i do websites, so he expects me to always fix his computer and now he expects me to design him a website for free. Last week he found out im an electrical contractor, so now he expects me to do all his electrical work for free also. He does this to almost every student who has some sort of skill in home repair. It seems like he uses whoever to fix his place so he doesnt have to pay. And its not like any of us are going to walk up to him and tell him no.

[Topher]

Yet I dont want to walk in his office and disrespect him and tell him to go out there and teach us something.

I see it has him disrepecting YOU by taking your money and sodding off and not teaching you anything.

[JimH]

Silentalero,
I do not see why a student should be afraid to talk to his/her instructor,they are only human.

I also do not see why a student would be afraid to tell the instructor to pay for their services.

He,the instructor, gets paid for what he does,teaching martial arts,so if you have a skill that you get paid for he should pay or allow you free training for the amount of work you do (barter system)

I do not see why people pay hard earned money to get a service,instruction in this case,and they do not get their monioes worth and do not complain.

If you were paying to learn,in a school or college,and the teacher sat there would you say nothing or ask them to do what they are paid to do and teach?

Talk to Him/her and make it clear you are not happy and are willing to leave,if he is worried about having or keeping students he would be foolish to let an already paying student(s) to leave.

Good Luck

[Blade3]

Hmm, well the school I'm at doesnt have a website. And the school im going to i beleive is www.hapkido.ws I'll have to check the flyer. The one on one is a good idea and i was thinking about doing that but just kinda nervous becasue i have respect for him and to tell him (not in so many words) your not doing anything is disrespectful but i know it needs to be done.


The other thing that bugs me about the school is #1 he found out i do websites, so he expects me to always fix his computer and now he expects me to design him a website for free. Last week he found out im an electrical contractor, so now he expects me to do all his electrical work for free also. He does this to almost every student who has some sort of skill in home repair. It seems like he uses whoever to fix his place so he doesnt have to pay. And its not like any of us are going to walk up to him and tell him no.
What?! Dude is just waaay tooo much. I once was under the tutaledge of a pompus ego maniac like that. He spent a lot of time in the office & talking smack about americans. He had an instructor who was a real bad @&& and knew HKD inside out but he had spent years frying his brain on dope, he'd be raggedy, dirty, smelly, & sometimes incoherent in speech. I bought this up to the arrogant,lazy dictator, (I mean GM) and he laughed & asked where would I go to learn real authentic HKD because he & his system was the best in SOCAL. At the end of the week I told him about a school & system called Jang Mu & he said that they were weak & this & that and it was really TKD with a little Judo. I told him that I'd take my chances, when I started at the new school & was a little sceptical but after awhile I saw that they were & still is the real deal and 5 years later I've found out more about the other guy, his influence is Kung Fu, Chi Na,HKD & Tang Soo Do (He got his BB's in both at the same time/same test)and He calls it HKD. The mix that he put together was killer but still He was just beyond belief and wanted me to shoot a series of demo videos for him for free with no royalties. Go figure.
I'd leave & if the other school is not good ,look into another system.
I've said it before, at the hight of his popularity Steve Segal said to someone that asked if a student should stay loyal to one teacher, his reply was " On your journey in the MA's you might not want to spend 10 years with one teacher but spend 10 looking for a good teacher."
So don't get held up on this dude, just move on and find what sits right with you.

[iron_ox]

Silentalero,

You're in Chicago? Drop by my dojang at 1385 N. Milwaukee - I'll give you a different perspective entirely - no contracts, no hassels - just training.

I do my own web and electrical work - and we teach Hapkido - in small, real classes...

OK, I'm bragging, but the new school you are touting is questionable. Hyun doesn't even teach classes anymore - he just sits on the side lines and collects the cash from the contracts you sign...

Yep, I have a bias, but come in and talk to me to see a difference that a HAPKIDO ONLY dojang can make toward your training...

You can all try a class FREE and with NO OBLIGATION....

Oh, and by the way, you always have the right to say NO! to any outside work for someone else - you are paying to be taught Hapkido - nothing else - you are not becoming a paid up indentured servant - guys like him really burn me up - generally have the money for a contractor - but just too cheap to hire one - walk away now...

[Thomas]

Man... if I lived in Chicago, I'd be running to take up that offer!!!!! Nice people you meet here at MAP, huh?
:)

[Jesh]

... he comes out to teach us a few techniques for literally 2 minutes maybe 2-3 times a week and runs back inside his office to sign up more people and is never around enough to answer questions.

Is that the smell of Big Mac's ???

[Shihan]

The other thing that bugs me about the school is #1 he found out i do websites, so he expects me to always fix his computer and now he expects me to design him a website for free. Last week he found out im an electrical contractor, so now he expects me to do all his electrical work for free also. He does this to almost every student who has some sort of skill in home repair. It seems like he uses whoever to fix his place so he doesnt have to pay. And its not like any of us are going to walk up to him and tell him no.

I personally don't have a problem doing extra curriculum duties at the dojang. At my old dojang, my Sabumnim knew I was a computer tech and I was asked to look at the computer on occassions. I have spent many days fixing and upgrading his computers, networking the dojang computers, installing software. I didn't see it as a problem. Other students that had other skills also helped out around the dojang. We even had a clean up day were all students were asked to volunteer and help clean the dojang. Afterwards we would have beer and pizza, then train. But in retrospect, we were getting excellent instruction directly from our master and black belts. Since this doesn't sound like what's happening at your dojang, I would think seriously about leaving.

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

Silentalero and I met Sunday afternoon - nice guy in a tough situation. He will be an asset to whatever dojang he ends up at, and if his current instructor doesn't get his act together he is going to lose some promising students.

As you said Thomas, my offer is open to all MAP'ers who are in the Chicago area - if you are on business or vacation here, please drop by and train...I play politics very heavily outside the dojang, but it is training that I am interested inside my school.

[HapkiDavid]

Whats up?? Silentalero I feel you. I can say that all this is true. I train with (used to) Silentalero and I was there longer than him. Everything was good until recently. I actually had a talk with him last week (right after our talk Silentalero, remember?) and quit, told him how I felt and requested a refund (I had prepaid my fees). I was upset that I had to end the relationship but he acknowledged how I felt and actually was sorry for not teaching us like before. We came to an agreement about a refund and he actually recommended another Master that would be able to instruct me. I realized that he just got tied up on the business end of it and "forgot" about his first students (I joined his school a few months after he opened). He promised he would give more time to my son (trains in his TKD program) and that he would also start to spend more time with the remaining HKD students. So my question is to you Silentalero, has anything changed since I left? Has he told anyone what has happened???

[Silentalero]

Well tomorrow im going to class so i'll find out then, If erin is there I'll talk to him, thanks kevin. Yea we met and kevin is definatly a stand up instructor and honest which is good. Im gonna goto class tomorrow and have a talk with him because if it doesnt change then im gone....Plus these belt tests im paying for really has to reduce in price because after learning what other dojangs charge its rediculous.

[Blade3]

Well tomorrow im going to class so i'll find out then, If erin is there I'll talk to him, . Im gonna goto class tomorrow and have a talk with him because if it doesnt change then im gone....Plus these belt tests im paying for really has to reduce in price because after learning what other dojangs charge its rediculous.
What's to talk about? What do you expect to change & how soon?

[JimH]

If the Instructor were going to make a real change,would he have not told HapkiDavid something like:"Wow ,you are right, I have neglected my teaching while trying to increase my business,Thank you for pointing out the student needs.I hope you will hold off leaving as I will change the way it is and it will be better from now on,if not you can leave next month" or something similar to that?

No instead he gives HapkiDavid the name of another instructor and sends him there.

I am sorry,I bet your instructor changes nothing,he may give you lip service but not instruction on par with what you want.

[Silentalero]

actually things did change tonight, he was out there like old times and taught the class and ran us through a good workout like he use to. I'm hoping this keeps up because this is what i origionally liked about the school. I still have a few months before i can legally get outta my contract anyways so im gonna see if this holds

[Topher]

actually things did change tonight, he was out there like old times and taught the class and ran us through a good workout like he use to. I'm hoping this keeps up because this is what i origionally liked about the school. I still have a few months before i can legally get outta my contract anyways so im gonna see if this holds
Maybe he's been reading this thread?

[skitzo]

One thing I've experienced.... a lot of TKD schools out there introduce a hapkido programme. What I think is happening is the TKD black belts learn a few arm locks and specialized break falls and CALL it Hapkido. Research the schools before you jump. (or is the school you're presently with what I just described?)

You mentioned a contract?!?!? I hate hearing that. Since there isn't any hapkido schools where I live, I've been teaching Karate. The owner of the gym has the students pay month to month. His philosophy is "Let us earn your business". If you don't like what we're doing here you can leave and come back whenever you wish. I've never seen a student leave to go to another club (only to play hockey) :)

[JTMS]

You mention that you have alot of respect for your master. Do you think he would discuss personal or professional issues that he might have with you in a public forum? It is very important that Hapkido students respect thier master and that the master in return not only teaches the student but truly cares about them.

It may be hard to understand that someone we have so much respect and admiration for could only be human. I agree with some ofer the other folks when they sugjest that you should (respectfully) express your concers.

And by the way I also feel you should talk to your master long before you discuss his short falls with any of us.

Good luck!

[Shihan]

You mention that you have alot of respect for your master. Do you think he would discuss personal or professional issues that he might have with you in a public forum? It is very important that Hapkido students respect thier master and that the master in return not only teaches the student but truly cares about them.

It may be hard to understand that someone we have so much respect and admiration for could only be human. I agree with some ofer the other folks when they sugjest that you should (respectfully) express your concers.

And by the way I also feel you should talk to your master long before you discuss his short falls with any of us.

Good luck!

I agree with a student's respect to one's master, but sometimes a strange ear hears better than the one you're familar with.