What should one practice for self defense?

[salami]

note: NO POLITICAL CORRECTNESS CRAP ALLOWED! SAY IT AS IT IS, OR DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL!

Hi all,
I have been wondering for some time now: what do I need for self defense?
It is all so confusing, everybody claims to have the ultimate answer(mma, rbsd, kali, silat, dumog, escrima, kuntao, systema, scfc, attackproof, karate, taekwondo, muay thai, judo, bjj, jkd, wing tsun, ww2 combatives, aikido, scars, kung fu, nononsenseselfdefense.com, ...) A seemingly endless list from 'battle tested systems' or systems from 'guys who have been there' :bang: :bang: :bang:
They all sell videos, seminars etc etc

What is a person to do? I am not some kind of psycho like Jun Fan who wants to dedicate his life to learning every possible style, I want a 'quick fix' so to speak, of course I will train hard, but not more than needed.

[pgm316]

The simple answer is; realistic training.

:)

[salami]

great, but what is that? I will have to join a school if I want training, what style do you consider realistic?

So far I have not yet seen something realistic and I have looked at muay thai, lameco, bjj and shoot fighting. The techniques might be physically devastating, but it's just sheer fantasy generally speaking.(training counters against counters against counters in the filipino arts,the other arts I mentioned were just horrible)

[Korpy]

Try (possible choices):

MMA
BJJ
Muay Thai
Judo
Hapkido
Kickboxing
Boxing

[Ikken Hisatsu]

well i have used the techniques I learnt in muay thai quite well to defend myself... look around and go to some of the classes, pick one you like.

[NeonxBurst]

What, no flamming yet? AND IKKEN'S POSTED ALREADY!!!!!!!!!!!!! OMG!
I'm proud of ya'll.

Anyway on to the current point
DONT ASK US! We'll only be bias towards what we like!

[pest]

I think its not as much about what you train but how.
Intent, resistance, simplicity, directness, strengthening and conditioning would be somthing I would look for.
Just some thoughts
~Pest

[NaughtyKnight]

You should go for a combat sport school. If you want sd, then moving around in stances and kiaping as you punch air isn't going to do anything for you.

[ninjas-r-us]

well, as my TKD master said today at class, you have to be able to take a hit because if your surprised and you go down well its game over man. So make sure for SD you find a school that has you kick and hold targets (for others) so you get a feel for a hit coming in and you don’t freeze up

I know your talking styles but my master mentioned this today and it made perfect sense.

[Goju]

Or maybe just a school with realistic sparring?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

So make sure for SD you find a school that has you kick and hold targets (for others) so you get a feel for a hit coming in and you don’t freeze up

that really has very little to do with good hard sparring with people trying to hit YOU and not a pad.

[Origami Itto]

great, but what is that? I will have to join a school if I want training, what style do you consider realistic?

So far I have not yet seen something realistic and I have looked at muay thai, lameco, bjj and shoot fighting. The techniques might be physically devastating, but it's just sheer fantasy generally speaking.(training counters against counters against counters in the filipino arts,the other arts I mentioned were just horrible)


What was it, if i may ask, that made you think that muay thai and bjj (i'm not familiar with the other styles) are "sheer fantasy"? What is you definition of "realistic"? I know that you aren't going to be wearing gloves and cups in a self defense situation, but that kind of beating is as close to reality as you can safely get, same goes for grappling techniques. You sound like you have experience that lets you judge the effectiveness of the styles you mentioned.

[old timer]

Practical yet simple to learn with devastating power without over complicated techniques, you have one choice.............Muay Thai. Simple to grasp the basics, practical from a self defence view after only a month, yes I stand by what I say, once you practice it and work on your conditioning you will become a proficient fighter. Now if you are asking about self defence against weapons the obvious choice would be the FMA's. How did I arrive at my decision, after training in some rubbish Karate system, Lau Gar kung fu, Freestyle Kickboxing, Thai Boxing, Wado Ryu Karate, San Shou Kickboxing, WKA Full Contact Kickboxing, JKD, Kali and some Penchat Silat I can summarise it best by saying Thai Boxing, WKA Full Contact and Kali are the best martial arts I have expereinced during my 19 years of training and have been the arts that have suited me best with out being dissillusioned by how ineffective or impractical the techniques are unlike some of the other styles that I have trained in.

[jonmonk]

I think its not as much about what you train but how.
Intent, resistance, simplicity, directness, strengthening and conditioning would be somthing I would look for.
Just some thoughts
~Pestsalami, don't ignore this post. Especially given:
I want a 'quick fix' so to speak, of course I will train hard, but not more than needed.If you don't want PC then that's fine I'll say it straight. You sound to me to be too lazy. Perhaps I'm wrong but that's how you sound to me. If you're not willing to go the extra mile then it doesn't matter which MA you do, you'll never be particularly good at it.

For the record, the main art that I study is karate and it doesn't claim to have the 'ultimate answer'.

[pgm316]

great, but what is that? I will have to join a school if I want training, what style do you consider realistic?

So far I have not yet seen something realistic and I have looked at muay thai, lameco, bjj and shoot fighting. The techniques might be physically devastating, but it's just sheer fantasy generally speaking.(training counters against counters against counters in the filipino arts,the other arts I mentioned were just horrible)

I can't answer that. I don't know which of your local schools trains realistically. Its a case of looking at a few and seeing what appeals to YOU.

Although styles such as boxing/kickboxing/muay thai/judo are likely to be more hands on than other more traditional arts. But thats only a generalisation and may not apply to scools near you. :)

[NaughtyKnight]

Well salami your not going to get more realistic than Muay Thai, or Boxing etc. Unless you feel like jumping guys on the street to pracitse, like it or lump it.

[medi]

You will need a house, a long fence, some paint, 25 sedans and a big tin of car wax.

[salami]

What was it, if i may ask, that made you think that muay thai and bjj (i'm not familiar with the other styles) are "sheer fantasy"? What is you definition of "realistic"? I know that you aren't going to be wearing gloves and cups in a self defense situation, but that kind of beating is as close to reality as you can safely get, same goes for grappling techniques. You sound like you have experience that lets you judge the effectiveness of the styles you mentioned.
You are all warmed up in loose clothing in order to execute the tehniques, there is no footwear, there are never obstacles or confinements. There is no intimidation, you just square off and start fighting. I know quite a few proficient thai boxers who got intimidated at 'the street' by some out of shape, unskilled foreigner and froze up because this was so different(intimidation, verbal violence, 'when to start hitting?', confined movement because of normal clothes and small space...)

Do you see where I'm going? I found the techniques of the little kali-silat, muay thai and shoot fighting physically effective, but that's it...


also: You may be right I am lazy, my main hobby is olympic style weightlifting and that takes up quite some time and energy. I am not interested in the artistic or athletic sides of fighting, I want to be able to defend myself. What do security professionals train? I would be surprised if they spent more time on the physical aspect than on conflict management, yes, this is what I want to learn too, and I haven't seen one thing about conflict management in the mentioned styles. Even if you are a 'badass mma fighter', you will need to know how to handle real violence, otherwise chances are that you might end up like the thai boxing buddies of mine.

[medi]

Do you see where I'm going? I found the techniques of the little kali-silat, muay thai and shoot fighting physically effective, but that's it...


If you're going to get intimidated even when you've got the skills to defend yourself that's your problem, not the art's.

There's no better way to lose your fear of being hit, than by being hit.

[NaughtyKnight]

You are not going to find a compeltly realistic school, drill that into your head.

[medi]

I know quite a few proficient thai boxers who got intimidated at 'the street' by some out of shape, unskilled foreigner and froze up because this was so different(intimidation, verbal violence, 'when to start hitting?', confined movement because of normal clothes and small space...)


You seem to know a lot about what made your friends freeze up. Please elaborate more on the scenario, from what you wrote it sounds like several of your friends got intimidated by one guy.

[salami]

No, it were all seperate incidents with different people, but the 'attackers' were all average height, chubby, muscular built, foreigners and naturally 'tough guys' with no ma training whatsoever. I will cover the case that is the clearest in my memory

The scenario is quite typical, I'm sure you are familiar with it: Tough guy looking around for a fight, spots a fake tough guys(my friend who think winning some titles makes him though). They get into some meaningless argument, my stupid friend gambles a bit by 'talking the talk' while hoping he does not have 'to walk the walk'. :bang: bad idea.

Though guy closes in, starts talking trash, a bit pushing(of course the tough guy exposes himself by pushing like that, but that doesn't matter, because he is 'in control' because my friend is already ******** himself) BTW there is a small table in between them(yes, it's in a bar) My friends trips over his chair, gets the (small) table on his chest followed by a stomping kick in his groin(yes, it's a mirracles his balls aren't gone)

That's pretty much it, the physical action was much shorter than the intimidation etc.

See what I mean?

[NaughtyKnight]

And...

You want us to give you an art that will teach you how to not get stomped in the balls.

They all do that.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

so your friend is a chump, so what. I defended myself against two people using techniques I learnt in muay thai. I have also defended myself using judo techniques. I really dont get what you are looking for here, you dont want the physical skill (for whatever reason) just the verbal ability. im sure you can find a course for that sort of thing somewhere, look in the paper.

[salami]

:bang: No! I want to know which self defense programs or martialarts focus on conflict management, are suited for confined spaces and work with normal cothes on. I don't just want to know 'how to hit', but also 'when to start hitting' if you get my point. Please don't give the childish answer of 'start hitting right away', because it's always better to avoid a real fight, not just to be a 'good guy', but for your own safety

[Ikken Hisatsu]

im betting I could beat the crap out of someone in a phone booth pretty effectively. but this is all for naught without knowing what you have in your area?

[NaughtyKnight]

God it annoys me when people ask for martial art styles without even telling us whats avaliable in their area!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Salami, learn something about ma before arguing with us, your starting to wear thin.

[salami]

In my area I have a MARS affiliated martial art school and a competitive boxing/full contact/kick boxing/thai boxing school.

[salami]

God it annoys me when people ask for martial art styles without even telling us whats avaliable in their area!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Salami, learn something about ma before arguing with us, your starting to wear thin.
Sorry about that, Knightcommander, I'm a newbie :redface:

[NaughtyKnight]

Then why are you arguing when we say muay thai. Its not asif you have many arts to choose from. A straightblast gym isnt going to magically open in your area because you are posting on here.

Go to the muay thai gym and check it out.

[NaughtyKnight]

Sorry about that, Knightcommander, I'm a newbie :redface:

Its alright, i forgive you this time.

Next time i'll play hide the salami :D:D:D

[salami]

But muay thai doesn't even cover weapons :confused: , but ok I'll check it out...

[Ikken Hisatsu]

whats MARS?

you sound like a lazy person. so muay thai might not be for you because you also sound like the kind of person who simply wouldnt be able to hack it for more than a few lessons. where do you live, someone on here may know a good club in the area or can use google better than you ;)

[NaughtyKnight]

But muay thai doesn't even cover weapons :confused: , but ok I'll check it out...

So?

you dont need weapons to be good at fighting.

[pgm316]

But muay thai doesn't even cover weapons :confused: , but ok I'll check it out...

But it teaches you to knock someone clean out before they have time to take a knife out of their pocket! ;)

Things aren't so straight forward. More time you spend with weapons means less time working on basic fighting. Likewise with the mock situations you mention. There never going to be like a real situation whatever you do. So its debatable whether you spend time creating a pub layout or simply work on your jab.....

[salami]

whats MARS?

you sound like a lazy person. so muay thai might not be for you because you also sound like the kind of person who simply wouldnt be able to hack it for more than a few lessons. where do you live, someone on here may know a good club in the area or can use google better than you ;)

Martial Art Research Systems, founded by Ron Balicki, son in law of Dan Inosanto.(http://www.ronbalicki.com) They crosstrain in inosanto kali, Lameco escrima, muay thai, shoot fighting, jun fan and pahilindo silat. Maybe I'm not completely correct, check the website)

Maybe I seem lazy because I forgot to mention I did muay thai for two years quite intensely. I was an athletic persuit for me at the time but quit out of frustration when my parents didn't allow me to enter competitions(my father is a neurologists, so I can't keep blaming them).
Anyway, at the time I still got my ass handed to me by the local 'bully', who is actually an insane kid who has beat up two construction workers on the street for no reason.

That showed me muay thai didn't help me so much, I couldn't handle real conflicts...:bang:

[NaughtyKnight]

Your 16-17, what were you doing in a pub anyway?

[salami]

Correct, 17 :)
What was I doing there? Well drinking and drewling on girls of course :big grin:
I am not in the UK

[Ikken Hisatsu]

But muay thai doesn't even cover weapons :confused: , but ok I'll check it out...

youll check it out... and yet you have already trained for two years? is it just me or am I missing something here?

anyway, it sounds to me like you need to stop picking fights with people who can kick your arse.

[salami]

exactly, but how? If I am to believe that 'animal yong' guy from nononsenseselfdefense you get attacked for being a violent person who acts like he is not a violent person, that way you have VICTIM written all over you :confused:

[Ikken Hisatsu]

exactly, but how? If I am to believe that 'animal yong' guy from nononsenseselfdefense you get attacked for being a violent person who acts like he is not a violent person, that way you have VICTIM written all over you :confused:


uhhh... what? i dont usually whinge about grammar but im not really sure what you are saying here.

[NaughtyKnight]

Well the majority of my fights started with me staring the other guy down, if they turned away there was no fight, if they kept the stare, then fights on.

Just act confident, but dont look for trouble.

[Leo_E_49]

No PC here, it sounds to me like Krav Maga is just the art for you. From the way you describe self defense, that is the exact description of what Krav Maga trains. Now I'm not saying KM is the best at self defense, there is no such thing as a "best" art. But it does sound like KM is the one which would suit you. Look it up and ask in the Krav Maga forum.

[NaughtyKnight]

There is no point telling him to do krav maga if he doesnt have it in his area.

[Hannibal]

Salami, the art does not mean poop if you freeze when you have to use it "live". That goes for Muay Thai, BJJ, RBSD, Who-Flung-Dung or whatever else you train in. That much you have said.

However, ANY system relies on drilling and partner co-operation to practice be it in the form of kata, sparring or step-drills. Otherwise you have a "fight club" full of morons and an awful lot of injuries. You are seeking something that simply does not exist and that is a system that will teach you how not to be scared. It ain't there.

Try reading some of Geoff Thompson's books - particularly "Animal Day" or "Fear - the friend of exceptional people". He covers the psychology of combat within those.

Three week courses will teach you nothing and there is no "quick fix". I suggest getting off yer' bum and actually start training or stop hanging around dodgy bars with wussy friends.

[NaughtyKnight]

Every street fight I have ever been in I was scared. The first one i was bricking myself. It gets less and less bad over time. Sparing also helps alot.

[medi]

Go to the Ron Balicki place. By reputation he is very good (as are all of Dan's top instructors). Even if you just talk to them about it they'll be able to help you decide what to do.