Cross-learning and cross-training

[HapkidoScott]

I keep reading posts and it seems that its one way or the other, 'NO cross-training if your studying a complete MA' or 'cross-training is the only way to be well rounded'. I could be way off but what the heck maybe I'll learn something. Early on in my studies I am very happy with the diversity of HKD and I look forward to learning it for the rest of my time, hopefully. TKD is great too and not that I would compete in TKD comps just for the training and learning the sport aspect to possibly one day assist others who would like to compete. Anyway the point is the cross-training/-learning element. I feel that to know your opponents potential attacks can only help. Why not research other styles for your own enlightenment, similar to studying any academics. You will only benefit from training in other styles even if only to watch or attend seminars. I'm not saying full time training in several MA's but why not complement your HKD with say FMA stick-fighting, some training in other weapons, training with boxers, wrestling, JJ or BJJ, etc. Yes, what we learn is pretty much all encompassing however its not as specialized and at least looking at the other arts with open eyes we can learn so much. I have been encouraged to check out other styles, I was told to let my instructors know about it I think more as a courtesy. I have also heard that there used to be seminars around the Seattle area where they brought people from several different styles together and you could go around for 2 days and train in up to 3 or 4 classes per day. I am often not good at explaining my thoughts and opinions in words so maybe you all can help me out cus I think that some of us are on the same page. Train hard. Scott

[American HKD]

I keep reading posts and it seems that its one way or the other, 'NO cross-training if your studying a complete MA' or 'cross-training is the only way to be well rounded'. I could be way off but what the heck maybe I'll learn something. Early on in my studies I am very happy with the diversity of HKD and I look forward to learning it for the rest of my time, hopefully. TKD is great too and not that I would compete in TKD comps just for the training and learning the sport aspect to possibly one day assist others who would like to compete. Anyway the point is the cross-training/-learning element. I feel that to know your opponents potential attacks can only help. Why not research other styles for your own enlightenment, similar to studying any academics. You will only benefit from training in other styles even if only to watch or attend seminars. I'm not saying full time training in several MA's but why not complement your HKD with say FMA stick-fighting, some training in other weapons, training with boxers, wrestling, JJ or BJJ, etc. Yes, what we learn is pretty much all encompassing however its not as specialized and at least looking at the other arts with open eyes we can learn so much. I have been encouraged to check out other styles, I was told to let my instructors know about it I think more as a courtesy. I have also heard that there used to be seminars around the Seattle area where they brought people from several different styles together and you could go around for 2 days and train in up to 3 or 4 classes per day. I am often not good at explaining my thoughts and opinions in words so maybe you all can help me out cus I think that some of us are on the same page. Train hard. Scott


Greetings,

I have struggled with the same question for many years and also studied a few art including Kali for two years.

With that being said I've matured to believe that in a complete system like HKD there's no need to cross train.

There is a need to keep your eyes open of what going on in the Arts and use HKD large arsinal to help you figure out how to defend against what evers thrown your way.

People who cross train may have BBs in several arts where one art picks up where one left off. I only studied TKD or Karate I think learning JJ or HKD is a must to be well rounded MA.

Kali and Hapkido weapons like Dan Bong are similar in many ways, true Kali seems to have endless drills for stick work but you can do the same in HKD.
You can use a 24 inch stick almost the same as a 14inch stick etc.

The problem IMO is no one wants to stick with one system long enough and in depth enough to realize it's full potential. We live in a soceity of paper and credit card Masters, not ones who put there time in and learn what the art really means.

[JimH]

I agree with American HKD,
I have also dabbled in other arts,and,as said by AHKD,if you find an art like Hapkido then stick with it and learn as much of it as possible,because it encompasses kicking,punching,elbows,knees,stand up grappling and ground grappling.

Now each area may not be the Greatest place to be against a skilled practioner of a specific art,like going to trade punches against a boxer or ground grappling a BJJ person,but WHO ARE WE TRAINING TO FIGHT,most practioners of other arts are not trouble makers,robbers,muggers or people who you might encounter to take your life or fight you for no reason.
(people who train in any art or style is a small percentage of the populace,those who stay on long enough to be really good are an even smaller percent)

Other range specific arts need to cross train a bit more than Hapkido because they are limited to that one range which is not good when taken outside of that range

The more things you attempt to perfect,the more confused you become when the real situation comes along if you try to be all encompassing (perfecting each area of combat),if you flow and go at it without concsciuos thought you will fall back to THAT ART OR STYLE YOU TRAIN/WORK IN THE MOST.

If you train in Hapkido 3 hours per week and you do boxing for one hour and FMA for one hour(part time right?) when you go into an altercation your hapkido will be the most referenced in your mind,short term -long term memory,so if we fall back on what we train the most why not work Hapkido, or what ever your core art is,the most.

As was said in another post,if you dabble in FMA and come upon a Good knife fighter,you will most likely still be slashed and cut and stabbed.
(Dabbling does not make you better at that encounter)

If you want to learn to fight a Boxer then square off against a boxer,you do not have to become a boxer to fight one,the same holds true with other specific range arts,what you want is to make your art useable against these arts or styles.
(find a boxer or BJJ person or FMA student who wants to learn or train against/with a Hapkido stylist,you both learn and advance)

The good thing is when you find some one from another art or style to train against you know you will not be getting a compliant opponent as they do not want to be beat,so you will learn to MAKE your art work.

If I want to learn to fight a guy with a knife ,I do not have to spend years learning FMA to do so,(years of training may not guarantee my success),but if I get a knife fighter or a partner to attack me with a training knife I am sure it will not take me long to find a few core techniques that work for me against these types of attacks.
(this type of training does not guarantee success in a fight either but at least I am doing it with my core art,the art that will come to the fore when I am in a situation)

[Ren-shi-shin]

Although I agree that one shouldn't run around collecting belts from many different styles without focussing on one, there is obviously a counter argument to this. Many important arts were created by people who cross-trained in many styles. Take Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido and one of the great martial artists of the 20th Century. First he trained in Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, Hozoin Ryu, and Tenjin Shinyo jujutsu, then Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu.

Or, take Grandmaster Ji, an important early practitioner of hapkido. He studied early hapkido, at the time based on Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu, and blended with some judo techniques, but he also studied Tae Kyon kicks, Jang-Bong (long stick), Dan-Bong (short stick).

The point is, arts grow and develop when new ideas are introduced to them. Of course you can say that you practice a "complete" art, but then you may still pick up a great technique from another style, pick up the use of an interesting weapon which your style is not using. Arts develop out of the circumstances that they come into contact with--Hapkido for instance developed the way it did to defend itself against the other styles available in Korea at that time. Now that there are countless other styles interacting, new defenses need to be created and learned. No art can be "complete".

[Ikken Hisatsu]

Ill go against the trend here and disagree. Now with a martial art that encompasses a lot like hapkido or MMA or some chinese systems, you are spending less time on each thing. And, your instructor is probably more a jack of all trades (not that it is a bad thing)

Chances are that he wont be able to teach you to box as well as a boxing coach could because thats his specialty. I know that a lot of MMA places will also do muay thai and bjj classes with different teachers who specialise in those areas. so cross training ni this case can be quite beneficial.

[American HKD]

Although I agree that one shouldn't run around collecting belts from many different styles without focussing on one, there is obviously a counter argument to this. Many important arts were created by people who cross-trained in many styles. Take Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido and one of the great martial artists of the 20th Century. First he trained in Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, Hozoin Ryu, and Tenjin Shinyo jujutsu, then Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu.

Or, take Grandmaster Ji, an important early practitioner of hapkido. He studied early hapkido, at the time based on Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu, and blended with some judo techniques, but he also studied Tae Kyon kicks, Jang-Bong (long stick), Dan-Bong (short stick).

The point is, arts grow and develop when new ideas are introduced to them. Of course you can say that you practice a "complete" art, but then you may still pick up a great technique from another style, pick up the use of an interesting weapon which your style is not using. Arts develop out of the circumstances that they come into contact with--Hapkido for instance developed the way it did to defend itself against the other styles available in Korea at that time. Now that there are countless other styles interacting, new defenses need to be created and learned. No art can be "complete".

Greetings

It's 100% true that many of the popular systems today derived from some sort of cross training.

It should also be noted that people who can come up with newly developed systems are only handfull of great men in a generation. I can only think of 5 off the top of my head and only one is still with us today.

Ueshiba = Softened up Daito ryu

Ji Han jae = Yawara, Tae Kyon, very combat oriented to date, etc.

Kano = Sport oriented JJJ

Ed Parker = Reorganized Chinese Kenpo

Bruce Lee = No style IMO, MMA, Wing Chun, Boxing, fencing, judo, wrestling, etc. Sifu Lee was a big innovator in cross training but I hesitate to say what he came up with was a new system it's more like a new way to train.

[American HKD]

Ill go against the trend here and disagree. Now with a martial art that encompasses a lot like hapkido or MMA or some chinese systems, you are spending less time on each thing. And, your instructor is probably more a jack of all trades (not that it is a bad thing)

Chances are that he wont be able to teach you to box as well as a boxing coach could because thats his specialty. I know that a lot of MMA places will also do muay thai and bjj classes with different teachers who specialise in those areas. so cross training ni this case can be quite beneficial.

Greetings

In my gym we have a boxing program, there are seperate teachers and some active pro fighters who are very good boxers and they can teach someone how to box 100X better than me.

But we're trying to say in this thread you don't have to be a boxer to beat one!

Stick to HKD and learn to use it against all types of fighters and cross training is not very important. With Thai boxing to you need to cross train to grapple not so in HKD.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

didnt say you have to. just saying it would be beneficial, maybe if you have a weakness in your game, or if your instructor isnt so great at something.

[American HKD]

didnt say you have to. just saying it would be beneficial, maybe if you have a weakness in your game, or if your instructor isnt so great at something.

I know you didn't mean me.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

eh? I didnt say anyone in particular. just saying in general. believe it or not you arent the only person who reads these forums

[American HKD]

eh? I didnt say anyone in particular. just saying in general. believe it or not you arent the only person who reads these forums

Gee I thought I was, :rolleyes: silly me.

[Kombat]

I must admit I'm in a similiar position as Scott, although I'm thinking about actually cross training versus just taking seminars. I'm currently taking Hapkido but very seriously considering also studying the FMA twice a week in conjunction with my HKD training. I've also looked into Judo and BJJ too. I've always been intrigued by both HKD and FMA but until now I only had an excellent HKD school to learn at. That is now changed as I've found a very well respected FMA school also.

Jim and Stuart make very compelling arguements as do those individuals who are pro x-training. I do have an opportunity to take a FMA seminar first to see if the art is suited to me (on advice from the FMA PG) so I think I will do that and then seriously give it some thought afterwards as to what direction I'm most comfortable pursuing (x-train or one train).

Interesting thread and I look forward to the continued discussion as it will ultimately aid in my finding exactly what and where I need to do and be...that is stick with HKD only or x-train (either full-time or seminars).

[Coges]

I keep reading posts and it seems that its one way or the other, 'NO cross-training if your studying a complete MA' or 'cross-training is the only way to be well rounded'. I could be way off but what the heck maybe I'll learn something. Early on in my studies I am very happy with the diversity of HKD and I look forward to learning it for the rest of my time, hopefully. TKD is great too and not that I would compete in TKD comps just for the training and learning the sport aspect to possibly one day assist others who would like to compete. Anyway the point is the cross-training/-learning element. I feel that to know your opponents potential attacks can only help. Why not research other styles for your own enlightenment, similar to studying any academics. You will only benefit from training in other styles even if only to watch or attend seminars. I'm not saying full time training in several MA's but why not complement your HKD with say FMA stick-fighting, some training in other weapons, training with boxers, wrestling, JJ or BJJ, etc. Yes, what we learn is pretty much all encompassing however its not as specialized and at least looking at the other arts with open eyes we can learn so much. I have been encouraged to check out other styles, I was told to let my instructors know about it I think more as a courtesy. I have also heard that there used to be seminars around the Seattle area where they brought people from several different styles together and you could go around for 2 days and train in up to 3 or 4 classes per day. I am often not good at explaining my thoughts and opinions in words so maybe you all can help me out cus I think that some of us are on the same page. Train hard. Scott

I think one of the main points of the post above is to maintain an intersest in what other arts have to offer. Now, we know that no one art will ever completely cover off every area. That is just impossible. By observing and studying other martial arts as well as HKD we are opening ourselves up to different angles, body positioning, mental awareness, etc. skills that we don't necessarily have to use in our HKD but can make us better at HKD.

I do happen to agree that all too often these days there is too much cross training before we've had a chance to properly understand enough about one MA, but our ability to absorb information is far greater than we will ever achieve. So why not try and use some of it?

If nothing else it may give you more ideas on how to improve your training methods, certain drills that can ba adaptable, focus areas that you haven't thought of. It's a big world out there.

Also, everyone has at least one weakness in there game. Face it and try to fix it.

[MaxG]

Let's think of this time period wise and see what happens.

Let's take a 8 year time period and break it down... in all examples the person goes 4 times a week.

If a hapkido practitioner studies ground defense/grappling one out of the 4 days then 8 years of ground experience in hapkido can be achieved in 2 years of BJJ.

Say someone studies a striking art exclusively. Using the same equation for striking/kicking nets the same result. 8 years of striking experience in hapkido is equivalent to 2 years of exclusively training in a striking art.

So at this point in time you have the same ground experience, striking experience, now you just need to add a strictly joint locking art/weapon defense (since strikes and grappling are already taken care of) Possibly the original art AJJ or maybe Wally Jay small circle JJ.

How many here train half the class in striking and the other in joint locks or some othe equation like that? How is that so different than training in one art one day and another the next? Some people say that with this method you become a "jack of all trades but master of none." What they don't seem to realize (or do but stubbornly refuse to acknowledge it) is that Hapkido already is an "amalgam" art! No matter what they think !

But in the end whether you "specialize" or "crosstrain" the end result is the same. Your path maybe different than mine but in reality aren't we all reaching the same goal?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

yes, but training in boxing then going and training in jujitsu- you are using the two arts in seperate manners. in hapkido you are incorporating it all into one. what I am saying is that doing some work focusing on one area like boxing or grappling can be beneficial to your game overall

[MaxG]

yes, but training in boxing then going and training in jujitsu- you are using the two arts in seperate manners. in hapkido you are incorporating it all into one. what I am saying is that doing some work focusing on one area like boxing or grappling can be beneficial to your game overall

I agree that it can be beneficial to your game. As to the arts using certain techniques in different manners. Yes that does happen but like I said the end result is the same. By crosstraining a person can do what Hapkido already does naturally. So why would that be a bad thing?

Don't get me wrong Hapkido is my favorite martial art. I'm just saying don't knock crosstraining. I guarantee if someone with 10 years of hapkido training went up against someone with 3 years Muay Thai, 3 years BJJ and 4 years of AJJ it wouldn't be a breeze for the hapkido guy. I say with certainty that the "jack of all trades" would give the "specialist" a pretty good fight.

[JimH]

If the Hapkido guy had to,for some reason,fight a guy with a couple years of Muay thai and a couple years of boxing and a couple years of BJJ,yes I agree he may have a tough time.
(depending upon his previous training or lack of testing)

But

Had the same Hapkido guy taken his 10 years of training and periodically trained to Fight, and learn to use his art against, a Muay Thai guy,a Boxer and a BJJ guy,instaed of actually trying to learn those arts, he would be the overwhelming favorite in my estimation

Why?

Because what teaches the boxer to box is not learning the movements it is getting in the ring with a BOXER and finding ways around the opponents attack.

What teaches the Muay Thai fighter to fight is not learning to kick,grab and use his hands ,knees and elbows,it is fighting another MUAY THAI person and find weakness in the opponents attack.

What teaches the BJJ guy is not the movements ,it is finding a weakness in the art by fighting another BJJ guy.

If you want to make your art,(what ever art, it does not need to be Hapkido), useful then train that art against others arts or styles and make your art dependable and useable for REAL.

You do not need to learn various arts,just pit your art against another art or style,and work it.

[American HKD]

If the Hapkido guy had to,for some reason,fight a guy with a couple years of Muay thai and a couple years of boxing and a couple years of BJJ,yes I agree he may have a tough time.
(depending upon his previous training or lack of testing)

But

Had the same Hapkido guy taken his 10 years of training and periodically trained to Fight, and learn to use his art against, a Muay Thai guy,a Boxer and a BJJ guy,instaed of actually trying to learn those arts, he would be the overwhelming favorite in my estimation

Why?

Because what teaches the boxer to box is not learning the movements it is getting in the ring with a BOXER and finding ways around the opponents attack.

What teaches the Muay Thai fighter to fight is not learning to kick,grab and use his hands ,knees and elbows,it is fighting another MUAY THAI person and find weakness in the opponents attack.

What teaches the BJJ guy is not the movements ,it is finding a weakness in the art by fighting another BJJ guy.

If you want to make your art,(what ever art, it does not need to be Hapkido), useful then train that art against others arts or styles and make your art dependable and useable for REAL.

You do not need to learn various arts,just pit your art against another art or style,and work it.

Greetings,

That's been my opinion for many years as well, and a hard concept to get people to understand because of all the MMA hype today.

Again I wish to stress learn the Art of Hapkido to it's full potential, I also favor Trad. HKD for many reasons (not part of this thread ) with a progresive Instr. who will explore defenses and understanding of other MA styles.

[zac_duncan]

There are so many reasons to crosstrain... I agree that you shouldn't have to. But I'd argue that most people would benefit from it if done judiciously and intelligently.

I recently started practicing xingyiquan in addition to my HKD and I can already feel it making my hkd better if just through gaining the perspective of another art. Looking at situations and techniques through with the mind of a different art is enlightening and humbling.

Beyond that, if you want to practice and improve your groundwork, what better way than going and rolling with BJJ guys? What better way to work on your striking skills than sparring boxers, kickboxers or muay thai guys? Even if you only use your HKD training in that sort of practice, you're going to get better through practicing with people who specialize.


It's true that HKD has techniques for pretty much every situation and it's principles can be applied anywhere, but I can only see benefit from working with other martial artists. Well, with a caveat. Don't go train in a style for 2 months and think that you know it. If you're going to crosstrain, dig into what you're studying or what you wind up with will be useless.

That's my two cents anyway.

[HapkidoScott]

I think we all agree with my point of looking into other arts. My main purpose to cross-training is to learn about the other arts for strategy. Is it not wise to know your opponent. I mean why not take advantage of the situation and learn thus enabling growth both intellectually and physically. Even if you only find new ways to warm-up or stretch. Experiencing other styles is like watching game tapes of other teams that you would compete against in a sport. You don't think that in college football the players just go to practice and then play the game and thats it? No, they not only study the team they watch how every individual reacts to a given situation and prepare for all situations. I to would like to prepare for as many situations as possible. I think it would only be to my advantage to at least understand other arts techniques and strategies. I do hope to study HKD for as long as I can and I hope to learn some other arts mostly for strategy. I just love to train and learn especially together, thanks for the awesome response. Train Hard, scott

[MaxG]

Had the same Hapkido guy taken his 10 years of training and periodically trained to Fight, and learn to use his art against, a Muay Thai guy,a Boxer and a BJJ guy,instaed of actually trying to learn those arts, he would be the overwhelming favorite in my estimation

If you want to make your art,(what ever art, it does not need to be Hapkido), useful then train that art against others arts or styles and make your art dependable and useable for REAL.


I can see where you're coming from but what if the guy ends up not fighting in Muay Thai or BJJ or boxing. What if it was a guy who trained in say Kali Silat, Jeet Kun Do, and maybe BJJ?
Then all that training "specifically" against those other styles would be pretty useless in that particular confrontation. I understand you can "dabble" in fighting other styles but that will never be the priority in any hapkido school.

You can't train to fight against every single style out there. That's just not possible. Even if you had 100+ years.


And in reality how many schools do that? I know most schools don't have a muay thai expert to learn to fight against on tap or a jeet kun do expert or a bjj guy etc. etc. Does yours?

The example I had was 2 individuals just training like they usually do and having an altercation on the street. Not one of them "specifically" trained to take the other out.

If that however was the case then the "jack of all trades" would only have to train to defend only against hapkido style while the "specialist" would have to train against 3 types of styles. Which is easier?

Imho it's always best not to limit yourself. I guess I just believe like Bruce Lee in having no style really and taking what works and discarding the rest. He's probably the most famous proponent of cross training.

But like I said earlier (and I'm going to keep repeating this so no one makes a mistake about it) the end result is pretty much the same in both training styles. We all reach the same point. Just some peoples path is different.

[MaxG]

I think we all agree with my point of looking into other arts. My main purpose to cross-training is to learn about the other arts for strategy. Is it not wise to know your opponent. I mean why not take advantage of the situation and learn thus enabling growth both intellectually and physically. Even if you only find new ways to warm-up or stretch. Experiencing other styles is like watching game tapes of other teams that you would compete against in a sport. You don't think that in college football the players just go to practice and then play the game and thats it? No, they not only study the team they watch how every individual reacts to a given situation and prepare for all situations. I to would like to prepare for as many situations as possible. I think it would only be to my advantage to at least understand other arts techniques and strategies. I do hope to study HKD for as long as I can and I hope to learn some other arts mostly for strategy. I just love to train and learn especially together, thanks for the awesome response. Train Hard, scott

Couldn't agree more.

[American HKD]

I can see where you're coming from but what if the guy ends up not fighting in Muay Thai or BJJ or boxing. What if it was a guy who trained in say Kali Silat, Jeet Kun Do, and maybe BJJ?
Then all that training "specifically" against those other styles would be pretty useless in that particular confrontation. I understand you can "dabble" in fighting other styles but that will never be the priority in any hapkido school.

You can't train to fight against every single style out there. That's just not possible. Even if you had 100+ years.


And in reality how many schools do that? I know most schools don't have a muay thai expert to learn to fight against on tap or a jeet kun do expert or a bjj guy etc. etc. Does yours?

The example I had was 2 individuals just training like they usually do and having an altercation on the street. Not one of them "specifically" trained to take the other out.

If that however was the case then the "jack of all trades" would only have to train to defend only against hapkido style while the "specialist" would have to train against 3 types of styles. Which is easier?

Imho it's always best not to limit yourself. I guess I just believe like Bruce Lee in having no style really and taking what works and discarding the rest. He's probably the most famous proponent of cross training.

But like I said earlier (and I'm going to keep repeating this so no one makes a mistake about it) the end result is pretty much the same in both training styles. We all reach the same point. Just some peoples path is different.

Greetings

I see both Max's & Jim points.

True no one can train against every style that's why cross training in some sense is not unecessary as I've been contending.

HKD has enough material to fight all types of fighter's learn to use them as best you can in your gym.

If you have the chance to train with others and trade ideas even better, but stick to HKD and learn it's full potential that's my bottom line opinion.

[Thomas]

I think the argument really comes down to "a little training in several arts" vs "master of an art"... but we also have to consider "the path to mastering one art which is visited by other arts"


yes, but training in boxing then going and training in jujitsu- you are using the two arts in seperate manners. in hapkido you are incorporating it all into one. what I am saying is that doing some work focusing on one area like boxing or grappling can be beneficial to your game overall
This is closer to my philosophy. I have a lot of time, sweat, and hard work invested in Hapkido and I have my lifetime ahead to dedicate towards mastering this art, which is my goal.

However, as a martial artist, I also believe in the importance of "knowing they enemy" and also as a means to "take a break" for a moment and refresh my mind, can see the purpose of cross training in other arts in order to make your primary art stronger. Doing training in ground grappling, FMA stick and knife, and TKD has not hurt my Hapkido, rather it has made it more flexible and useful in various environments. Granted I consider myself a Hapkido practitioner who "familiarizes" himself with other styles as possible.

I think where the danger is for students who study many arts to a mediocre level in each and never choose a primary art to build on. In my opinion, a beginner in 5 arts will not be as competant as a master in one. However, bwteen two masters, the one with more outside familiarity should have a more flexible mind and advantage.

[HapkidoScott]

Its so cool to have a good informative trading of ideas without anyone taking it personal. Thats why I dig my fellow HapKiDoins and Ikken too. I appreciate all your opinions thanks. Scott

[American HKD]

I think the argument really comes down to "a little training in several arts" vs "master of an art"... but we also have to consider "the path to mastering one art which is visited by other arts"



This is closer to my philosophy. I have a lot of time, sweat, and hard work invested in Hapkido and I have my lifetime ahead to dedicate towards mastering this art, which is my goal.

However, as a martial artist, I also believe in the importance of "knowing they enemy" and also as a means to "take a break" for a moment and refresh my mind, can see the purpose of cross training in other arts in order to make your primary art stronger. Doing training in ground grappling, FMA stick and knife, and TKD has not hurt my Hapkido, rather it has made it more flexible and useful in various environments. Granted I consider myself a Hapkido practitioner who "familiarizes" himself with other styles as possible.

I think where the danger is for students who study many arts to a mediocre level in each and never choose a primary art to build on. In my opinion, a beginner in 5 arts will not be as competant as a master in one. However, bwteen two masters, the one with more outside familiarity should have a more flexible mind and advantage.


I agree as well

[Kombat]

Its so cool to have a good informative trading of ideas without anyone taking it personal. Thats why I dig my fellow HapKiDoins and Ikken too. I appreciate all your opinions thanks. Scott

Yes, they're a great bunch!!

[Hapkido Student]

What can be wrong with cross-training as long as you devote yourself to each art equally. My master Instructor said that there should be no problem with cross-training as long as you don't completely disreguard the other style.

[furn]

greeting ^^

I'm my humble opinion, cross-training or not, i don't really matter, because there too many other things to consider ; Natural talent, teachers, dedication, mentality, etc.

I mean, for me, after doing cross-training for maybe 3-4 years, i just feel it's not for me. I have to spent many hours on the same M.A. to feel the full capacity of it. Some people catch the drift faster and can cross train, it all depend of the person.

This Saturday i was at a special Event of Capoeira, the teacher Joas de Deus come and show us his way of teaching. And i see that, even if Capoeira don't use hand, or have grappling, even again this kind of guy, a good Capoeiratis can make it. It depend of experience, reflex and reaction, and it with those that you use what you learn in class. Anyway, it convince me to learn only one martial art.

But i don't want to say cross-training is bad, far from it...it all depend of who learning it...

Anyway, only my 2 cents.

[laz001]

I think that if you ONLY cross train, then you could be missing out on 1 key element...TRANSITIONS.

What i mean is, say you train 2 totally seperate arts. You are then going to become very skilled in the two, say, boxing and BJJ. But when you are in the boxing class, you're coach will most definately NOT run the class with BJJ in mind, e.g., you'll be practising under straight boxing rules, and learn to box in a stance that is not prepared for sudden explosive takedowns. Also, you are boxing...when does the situation grant you performing a takedown to turn the fight to a ground fight? Will the boxing coach tell you this? No.

Then in the BJJ class, if it's pure sport BJJ, sure, you'll be a whiz at grapping and submission, but will the teacher keep in mind that you can box, and tailor the class to take advantage of that? Possibly not.

My personal though on this is that you should learn an MA which mixes up these transistions. HKD is a perfectly good one. When you are at a good level in HKD, then you should have a good knowledge of how and when/why to transistion between strikes, clinchwork, locks, and takedowns. Then it would proabably be extremely beneficial to train with someone who is an expert in each area, such as a kickboxing coach, BJJ teacher, weapons teacher.

Infact, point inhand, i used to tran TKD and judo at the same time. Which was great, but my JUDO class completely ignored that fact that i did tkd, and my tkd class comletely ignored that i was learning judo. I then never learnt how to transfer from one range to the other well.

Laurence.

[Thomas]

I think that if you ONLY cross train, then you could be missing out on 1 key element...TRANSITIONS.

Excellent point! I usually refer to this as intergrating the arts... it helps having an instructor who can help you do this.

[MasterBob]

Cross training is not only healthy, but also smart. Hapkido is the core system in my school, but techniques from a variety of systems is incorporated (Krav Maga, BJJ, FMA, etc) If the techniques compliment our training, we incorporate it into our program. If not, we get rid of it. I have had both the pleasure and opportunity to host numerous experts in the field of self defense. Instructors like Steve Tarani, who introduced my students to the Karambit, knife, and stick. Julius Melegrito with his excellent combative knife and stick program. Carlson Gracie and BJJ. I have also tapped the local talent for clinics and seminars. The motto of our school is "Training for survival, not sport"! To me that says it all.

Bob Ingersoll
Defensive Arts Academy
Seaside, CA

[koyo]

Hi Guys great thread no politics or bull. I have been training in aikido for forty some years so I was there as the arts were spreading.Luckily some good mates were made in those days so in later life I found some of my mates were high graded (5th dan) karateka judoka and kendoka. We would often train together not to learn other arts but to improve our own, I would take some of my younger dan grades and watch as they encountered a really fast karate attack. Soon they realised you have to unbalance him in the instant before he kime-ed and execute the technique in that instant. The karateka would be surprised at how easily I slipped their punches and shorten their stances to accomodate. I could go on and on about being thankful for the extra foot my jo had when facing another friend gerry 6th dan kendo. In the end the cross training was for each of us to see our own art from a different perspective and we ended up respecting each other and each other's arts even more. Again great threat keep the minds open.

Koyo
makotokai.co.uk