Balisong Knives

[BadMunkey]

Anyone fancy a few posts about balisongs?

I don't have one from www.balisong.com coz they aint legal.. but if I did it would be v nice! oh and it would have a kris blade too ;)

http://badmunkey.com/eskrima/pics/mykrisbalisong.jpg

If I had one I would be able to do a few techniques from simple open/close to arial moves and a few offensive open/close techniques.
How many techniques do ya think there are!? I know about 35 - 40 opening and closing techniques that i can... or could perform If i had one :D

Id like to hear what other people think of balisongs and if they have any comments about them?

Nick :yeleyes:

[juramentado]

balisongs are very nice knives :)

IMHO, the best folding knife design ever. Will not ever fail on you, with minimal parts that might break or crack. The more firmly you hold the handle, the blade is likewise more firmly held in place.

Using a balisong is part of the FMA style I practice. I practice opening and closing, not much on the fancy stuff. I'd rather learn to open it quickly in a self-defense situation, from any grip position, even when I've got adrenaline flowing.

And the balisong is also very effective as a palm stick, so you have a non-lethal alternative.

Owning a balisong in the Phil. is not illegal (and it shouldn't be) but the local police has a dim view of carrying a balisong in public. Balisongs have a shady reputation here and ironically you're better of with a western style tactical folder in case you get searched. And this is a quite possible with the security checks getting into every mall and building in the city. I'm hoping that the law turns around some day and allows balisongs in public for FMA practitioners.

[YODA]

err... yes - If they were legal I would have at least 4 - and I would have a clearly defined teaching progression for the various types of opening and closing - and errr.... I would be familiar with various aspects of it's use as a regular knife and also some balisong specific uses. If it were legal :Angel:

[BadMunkey]

juramentado, what is IMHO?

Yoda, could ya give me some info on the teaching progression you would have.. if they were legal ;)

I have a friend who is from Balisong in the Phil. If they were legal he would send some over next time he is visiting his family there. He was telling me that all the kids have a balisong and play with them as if toys, doing all kinds of tricks and techniques like throwing a closed bali from one hand to the other and catching it open.

[YODA]

IMHO = In My Humble Opinion

If it were legal I wouldn't have my progression on the PC - if I got around to entering it I'd be sure you send you a copy. http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/thumb.gif

[khafra]

I carry a leatherman keychain and often also a tactical folder for those tasks which need a larger blade and the "just in case." I've been thinking about getting a balisong lately, since America's a bit more relaxed about blades and they're cheaper than tactical folders of equal sturdiness.
So, anyway, when I saw this thread I found myself wishing they were legal in the UK, so Yoda'd have a teaching progression he could make accessible--but, since they're not I guess I'll have to keep using the folders for those tasks requiring a larger blade (http://www.switchblade-knives.it/images/interi/15_giant_40_1501.jpg)

[YODA]

Hey khafra

Don't get me wrong - balisongs are very cool - but for function and general usage I'd go for a good quality tactical folder any day. and yes, I can open my Gerber as fast as I could my balisong, if I had one - one handed :D

[khafra]

Hm, maybe I'll stick to folders then--don't quite have the outlaw image of balisongs, even where they're legal, and opening without flair is of course faster than the alternative--but, still, that sturdiness thing appeals to me. I tend to loose small things like that, so a $10 butterfly knife as unlikely to have lock failure as a $70 folder is still kinda cool, even if the steel's of a much lower quality.
Probably a faux pas to use 'em as utility knives though, I suppose.

[YODA]

Balisongs are a nice toy to play with - other than that they offer no advantages over a modern good quality tactical folder. For example...

http://store5.yimg.com/I/bestknives_1744_106741

In fact - I don't carrty anything that expensive - I need something that will serve me day to day as a working tool, but is also cheap enough to "loose" if need be. My current "tools" are...

http://www.onlinesports.com/images/buc-281gyx.gif

and......

http://store5.yimg.com/I/bestknives_1747_8647816

and....

http://store5.yimg.com/I/bestknives_1747_29610075

[juramentado]

I just had a discussion about this with my instructor. I asked him what he'd prefer to carry, if they are both legal, a tactical folder or a good quality balisong. And he said he'd go for the balisong. But then again he's very very good with a balisong so I guess his opinion is a bit biased.

Yes most tactical folders are really far more advanced than the typical balisong. The blade of a something like an Emerson folders is definitely better than an ordinary balisong.

But like I said, even when closed, a balisong can still do a lot of damages as a kubotan / palm sticks. And I would feel very confident about stabbing hard with a balisong, given its construction. I read somewhere about a test involving balisongs and a variety of folders and the balisong stood up to a lot of heavy stabbing use that rattled the folders. Can't seem to find the link in my IE favorites.:(

Anyway, in the right hands in a self-defense situation, even a butterknife can do damage..:)

in the UK, is it illegal to own a balisong or just to carry it outside your home?

[YODA]

in the UK, is it illegal to own a balisong or just to carry it outside your home?

Balisongs are illegal to...

* sell
* hire
* offer for sale
* offer for hire
* expose
* or import

Saying that - so are tactical folders :Angel: --- see below

The law says you can carry a "folding pocket knife" with a blade less than 3 inches long. Recent case law has established that for a knife to classify as a "folding pocket knife" the blade must not lock open. So basically if it's safe to use it's illegal to carry - go figure!

The Balisong differs only in that it's actually listed on the prohibited weapons list - so it's size isn't a factor. Also - ANY knife designed or made to look like it's designed for "Combat" is illegal - so by defination anything advertsied as a "tactical folder" falls into that category.

From my website......

Article With Blade OR Point : Sec 139 Criminal Justice Act 1988

“Any person who has any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed, except a folding pocket knife unless the blade of such knife exceeds 3 inches, in a public place is gulity of an offence”

Harris v DPP, stated case law, confirms that a lock knife is not a folding pocket knife. Harris argued that his lock knife folded in the same way as a pocket knife. The Court stated that a lock knife is not a folding pocket knife. Even a lock knife with a blade 1 inch long is illegal due to fact that the blade locks…

Criminal Justice Act 1988, s139 as amended by the Offensive Weapons Act 1996, Section 3.

"For a knife to be a folding pocket-knife within the meaning of this section, it must be readily and immediately foldable at all times, simply by the folding process. A lock-knife, which required a further process, namely activating a trigger mechanism to fold the blade back into the handle, was held not to be a folding pocket-knife"

[BadMunkey]

What are good options to put in a poll??

say..

"what is your prefered type of knife?"

Balisong
Tactical Folder
Locl Knife
etc
etc
whatever you think?

throw a few ideas for options in b4 a poll goes up.


And how about a few thoughts on blade types????

My balisong.. if i had one.. would have a kris type blade as the pic shows up top. I like the advantages the kris design has. ie longer cutting edge for the length of blade, wider blade while minimising weight etc.

your thoughts?

[YODA]

Double edged Balisongs suck!

Have you tried any complex flips & openings with one? I mean a REALLY sharp one like a Benchmade - I have - BLOOD!!!!!

[YODA]

As for the poll - prefered knife for WHAT?

[BadMunkey]

I dunno.. help me out here... erm... prefered knife for FMA?

[BadMunkey]

oh.. and no I aint tried any complet stuff.. coz I dont have one..

lol ok.. yeh I can do a few flips and opening etc... went through a stage where my hand was peppered with small cuts from getting it wrong!

My blade aint too sharp but i had enough cuts to get me doing it a lil better after a lil while.

I'll have to sharpen mine to get the full effect so I know when the blade has gone a lil stray ;)

Where can ya get a benchmade BTW? or who will send them over here?

[juramentado]

Originally posted by YODA
Double edged Balisongs suck!

Have you tried any complex flips & openings with one? I mean a REALLY sharp one like a Benchmade - I have - BLOOD!!!!!

Yup, they will suck if you happen to get used to manipulating single edged balisongs. I have single edge and double edged ones and by far the "safer" knives for practice are the single edged ones. I still gte cut with the single edged ones. But I've seen some balisong experts toy with double blade ones and they can get away with the fancy stuff even with the other edge. I guess if you train for double edged ones you gain the upper hand. But you also limit yourself to the "tricks" you can do, since a lot of moves are for single blade knives.

Oh, BTW, except for the kris and probably some obscure blades around the different provinces here, the traditional blade design for bolos and knives in the Philippines are single edged.

[YODA]

I do know where you could buy one but now is not a good time. All the knife suppliers I know are charging extortionate shipping charges due to the number of problems they've had - how does £60 for shipping ONE knife sound?

[BadMunkey]

I only have the kris type blade to use so im stuck with the double edge for now.. tho my filipino friend over the road had singe edged... think i might pop over to see him later!

..£60...yowch! i think that would hurt more than getting cut by one!

[krys]

I don't like foldind blades.... among other balisongs.

My preference goes to double edged daggers and pushs, more difficult to disarm, you can strike straight in any direction and no need to worry when you change hands or grip....
for the psychological effect I like the rusty kris.....

[moromoro]

for the psychological effect I like the rusty kris.....

hi chris

i think a kris will have a psychological effect against most attackers......

too many people are playing around with balisongs, this is sad...
if used properly it is a awesome weapon,
KEEP IT CONCEALED and pop YOU STAB AND CUT HIM (AND he dindnt even know you had a weapon......)

i had the opportunity to learn some balisong last time in the philippines (bicol) from my brothers in law, there style is not even a style not pretty but it has been used in combat for about 20yrs..
A real fighter is not going to be impressed by your helicopter and flip openings (keep this aspect for impressing friends not foghting)

peace

Terry

[juramentado]

my personal training goal for using a balisong is to be able to open it very quickly, from any grip and even when I'm avoiding a strike, and to use the balisong as a palm stick in the event that I don't have time to open the knife.

I like learning new tricks but I just keep my focus on learning "street applicable" skills. Learning to throw a balisong up in the air and catching it in pakal isn't going to make me better at using a knife, but just to improve my confidence at handling a balisong.

If anyone wants to learn the tricks, they're are welcome fo try them. They can be very difficult to learn and fun to watch. But keep in mind that the goal is to get the pointed end into an attacker's vital points, not to dazzle him with aerial tricks.

[shootodog]

hmmm...

cool thread!

a balisong is just a knife. it is an awfully simple knife with very few parts that can bog down or jam on you. that is what happens in a 3rd world country. less complex machines to produce even less complicated ones. the product... a really simple and reliable knife. and it's cheap too.

just remember to get orig batangas knives, try to go to the town of balisong proper. cheap, simple, easy to use, effective knives.

i like my folders and my kneck knives too. but a balisong in my hand makes me smile.

[Em-em]

He was telling me that all the kids have a balisong and play with them as if toys

This is so true. Just last summer (April-May 03), I enrolled in a free tennis clinic. During break time, us students (aged 5-17) gathered around practicing knife-flipping (opening/closing of the balisong). I enjoyed it a lot, and it looks cool when the younger ones started flipping it like a pro. I reminded them to be responsible, though.

Now you non-Filipino kids out there, don't get any ideas...

[shootodog]

my family hails from batanggas and i grew up seeing all the fancy balisong play. my uncle told me this:

"kapag nakikita mo na magaling ang paglalaro, pakitang gilas lang yan. hindi yan sasaksak. kapag binuksan ang balisong na simple at nai-lock. yan, sasaksak yan."

translated: when you see a person who flashes his balisong and does some fancy stuff, he's just showing off. he won't fight. if he opens the balisong simply and locks the clasp, then you know he'll fight.

[dra_uk]

There's an interesting article on the British Knife Collectors Guild site:

http://www.bkcg.co.uk/guide/union.html

It would be excellent if these knives became legal again in this country.... If only!


dra_uk

[shortstick]

Well I think its a cool item for me collection, and in the style of kempo I study there is a Butterflyknife form/kata that is part of the criteria for nidon. I would feel better with the tactical folder I carry..........but since we are talking "If it were legal" I rather have a sig .40......but....thats... not ...legal!:woo:

[shootodog]

but since we are talking "If it were legal" I rather have a sig .40......but....thats... not ...legal!

it's not? it is here.

[juramentado]

Originally posted by shootodog
it's not? it is here.

LOL

I agree with your previous post. when the guy whips it around and does flashy moves, he's just BSing. Fear the guy who open it quickly coz he means business.

[ryangruhn]

LEGAL
SAFE
FUN
CHEEEEEEP!!!

Enjoy . . . . .

http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=KO2000A&dept_id=2302

Gruhn

[Crucible]

If you want pure quanity or variety of openings and closeings you might want to look up Matt Marinas, last time I checked he knew over 167. I agree with what someone posted earlyer, knowing more openings doesn't necesarily make you a better knife fighter but it will make you more familiar with the balisong. I've been told the knife fighters in the batangas actually only know one or two openings really well, and that's what they focus on.
In caifornia Balisongs are illegal, a friend told me it was to prevent there usage by asian tongs, for who it was the weapon of choice. :rolleyes: , now they all carry glocks.

[ricardo123]

Hi Guys,

Does anyone know:-

1) Is it legal to own one of these knives (in the U.K.)?

2) If so, can I get one in the UK?

3) Has anyone ordered one from the US?

4) If it is not legal, has anyone imported a training / drone balisong successfully? Or is that illegal? Or can I get one in the UK?

Many thanks for your time!
Rich

[YODA]

Hi Guys,

Does anyone know:-

1) Is it legal to own one of these knives (in the U.K.)?

2) If so, can I get one in the UK?

3) Has anyone ordered one from the US?

4) If it is not legal, has anyone imported a training / drone balisong successfully? Or is that illegal? Or can I get one in the UK?

Many thanks for your time!
Rich

1. In theory - yes. But illegal to import sell etc.

2. No

3. Yes - be prepared to play the lottery with Customs. There's a good chance you'll loose it and still ahve to pay for it.

4. Legal IF you can find one. Haven't seen any in the UK.


I have quite a few live & dud - and that's ALL I'm saying about THAT :Angel:

[ricardo123]

Hi Yoda,

Thanks for the reply.

I have found a couple of US sites that sell the practise ones if anyone is interested:-

http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=KO2000A&dept_id=12416
(Cheap)

http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=BM40T
(Expensive)

If anyone has experience of these or of buying the real thing could they please let me know!

Many thanks!
Rich

[old timer]

I did not know blaisongs were illegal, is it illegal to own or to keep one in your own home, I purchased one about 18 years ago with brass handles from a Army & Navy Surplus shop, Yodas previous post about double sided blades, mine has a single blade but on the other side it has just the edge sharpened for the first 1" and it can cut your fingers if manipulating it carelessly. I will have to dig it out of the garage and have a look at it.

[dra_uk]

I did not know blaisongs were illegal, is it illegal to own or to keep one in your own home, I purchased one about 18 years ago with brass handles from a Army & Navy Surplus shop, Yodas previous post about double sided blades, mine has a single blade but on the other side it has just the edge sharpened for the first 1" and it can cut your fingers if manipulating it carelessly. I will have to dig it out of the garage and have a look at it.

Hi,

They're not illegal to own, so if you have a pre-ban knife you're okay. You can lawfully keep it in your own home and play with it to your heart's content. You can't, however, take it out in public with you!

Cheers,

dra_uk

[adouglasmhor]

I have a balisong bottle opener in my flat, just the thing when you need a cold one after training.

[rocky]

If you want a balisong you could keep checking British Ebay.They aren't on to often because ebay do random checks and pull the plug on them.
I know people who've got a few ;) from ebay before though.No customs problems either.

[LabanB]

Hi Dra_uk,

Are you sure about that? My understanding is that since about 1984/5 Balisongs have been a prescribed weapon in the UK, meaning it was illegal to import, sell, own, look at in a lustful manner ;-)

Its one of those sort of but not entirely grey areas of the law, whereby you keep getting different opinions about their legality, but no one seems to be able to point out the laws stating exactly the position about pre ban ownership.

Bill

[Pat OMalley]

err... yes - If they were legal I would have at least 4 - and I would have a clearly defined teaching progression for the various types of opening and closing - and errr.... I would be familiar with various aspects of it's use as a regular knife and also some balisong specific uses. If it were legal :Angel: Umm, errr... Me too:Angel:

[Pat OMalley]

Hi Dra_uk,

Are you sure about that? My understanding is that since about 1984/5 Balisongs have been a prescribed weapon in the UK, meaning it was illegal to import, sell, own, look at in a lustful manner ;-)

Its one of those sort of but not entirely grey areas of the law, whereby you keep getting different opinions about their legality, but no one seems to be able to point out the laws stating exactly the position about pre ban ownership.

Bill Totally, totally ilegal since the early 90's, As an instructor you may convice a judge that you have it purely as a teaching aid when teaching security staff and other people knife awareness programes, much like any knife not made of metal or that cannot be detected by metal detectors, e.g. CIA Bakerlight knives. Not that I would own any of those sort of things eh!:Angel:

[dra_uk]

Totally, totally ilegal since the early 90's, As an instructor you may convice a judge that you have it purely as a teaching aid when teaching security staff and other people knife awareness programes, much like any knife not made of metal or that cannot be detected by metal detectors, e.g. CIA Bakerlight knives. Not that I would own any of those sort of things eh!:Angel:

If you read the Restriction of Offensive Weapons Act 1959 and it's subsequent updates, it does not mention ownership, merely the sale, purchase, manufacture, carrying and importation of the items mentioned. You can own them legally if they are from before the ban (or if you find them down the back of an old couch, which a lot people seem to do, somehow...;)) provided you keep them in your home. You are not allowed to have them in public; the same goes for all items listed in the act.

This is why there was a rash of people purchasing expandable batons before they were added to the list late last year. Non-metalic knives (and this does not count knives used in the preparation of food) were added at the same time as the batons. You're still allowed to have all these things in your home.

A good place to check up on these questions for people in the UK is the Law Forum on British Blades (http://www.britishblades.com). They're a friendly bunch, and extremely well informed. They deal with collecting (and some bushcraft) rather than the martial side of things.

Cheers!

dra_uk

[LabanB]

Hi Dra-uk,

Cheers, should make interesting reading.

Bill

[Pat OMalley]

And a good site to know exactely what the law is as soon as it is up-dated is the official government site www.hmso.gov.uk (http://www.hmso.gov.uk)

I'll drop in on the other site too, should make for some very intersting veiw points.

Regards

Pat

[sercuerdasfight]

they don't let you guy's over there have any good toys.

[Pat OMalley]

Only because there scared of us

[Pat OMalley]

You can own them legally if they are from before the ban (or if you find them down the back of an old couch, which a lot people seem to do, somehow...;)) provided you keep them in your home. You know I did not know it was that common, you would be surprised just what I have found down the back of my couch, even the new couch I bought recently, I did not think the couch manufacturers were suppose to store things like that there:Angel:

[sercuerdasfight]

does your goverment really think that people won't find other things to kill people with? next they'll outlaw pencils.

[Pat OMalley]

Shhhh! you give them idea's. You know the way the EU and the British governement is going that would not surprise me.

Before you know it we will only be allowed to defend ourselves if the is a chance it may not hurt the attacker in anyway and as long as they only attack you on a Tuesday morning when it is raining in the middle of a drought just after the moon has come out and the snow has settled on the ground and only when the Prime Minister is away on holiday on the moon with the French President who must be holding hands with the German Chancellor.

But apart from that their doing a good job, for George Bush anyway:confused:

[pug32]

Yoda

As I would never consider law breaking so would look to get one of the legal training ones is it hypothetically possible to get a copy of the progression were you write one :confused:

[Scarmiglione]

Martial Arts Planet : Terms of Service

1.12 Illegal Activities:
Threads/replies encouraging illegal/unethical action are not allowed. Posts such as these will be deleted and may lead to you losing your posting privileges.

Please keep this discussion within the ToS or it may be locked

Importing Balisongs to the UK is illegal, do not encourage MAP members to break the law.

[Scarmiglione]

Word :Angel: Sorry