Ground defense vs grappling

[Kombat]

I was going to ask my Master this but forgot so I figured there's no better place to get the answer than here...what is the difference between ground defense vs ground grappling?
Thanks,

Kombat

[Thomas]

I was going to ask my Master this but forgot so I figured there's no better place to get the answer than here...what is the difference between ground defense vs ground grappling?
Thanks,

Kombat
School specific reply here
Here's something I posted earlier about what our school does... other people may do differently:


I know there is a difference between “grappling” and “ground survival” and I would actually characterize our program as “ground survival”… our main goal is to prevent going down if possible, reduce damage if we do go down, get back to our feet and escape, and to use techniques to finish the fight on the ground if we can’t get back to our feet and disengage. Our main goal is to protect ourselves and get out of there as soon as possible.

(Combat Hapkido ranks: white, yellow, green, purple, blue, brown, red, red/black, black/white, black)
In Combat Hapkido, we start students out at yellow belt with basic breakfalls… to help prepare students for the inevitable fall to the ground… whether it’s accidental and solo, or intentional with an opponent. Students also begin to learn strikes (esp. kicks) to use from the breakfall position… mainly to keep an opponent from attacking them on the ground.

At yellow belt or so, we add the various leg traps and takedowns from the ground to take a standing opponent down while we are on the ground. We teach some follow up strikes and a few submissions. However, at these levels (and actually all throughout our system’s philosophy), our main intent is to get back to our feet to strike or get away… not to stay and play on the ground if we can avoid it.

Around green, yellow, and purple, we work defences against takedowns… especially from single and double leg and practice using our underhook/sidestepping, posting, evasion, sprawling, and occasionally striking (especially to feed into a guillotine)

At green, purple and blue belt or so, we work the scenarios for if we end up on the ground. We practice the guard and the mount and work some submissions from both top and bottom, from the guard, side guard, and the mount. We work extractions and trying to get back to our feet, but we also work transitioning into submissions or striking… as the situation presents itself.

From Red belt and up we continue building on the ground survival techniques and begin incorporating the option of going to the ground in our advanced sparring classes (“no rules- good control”). For the 1st dan test, we evaluate all of the techniques listed here and do a bit of ground work like escaping the guard, escaping someone who is mounting you, and etc.

Keep in mind that even within the “basic core” Combat Hapkido course, the ground survival program is relatively basic and designed to keep you safe until you can get back to your feet and get out of there. It is also designed to give you a “leg-up” on techniques to protect you if you are taken to the ground and can’t get up quickly. However, there is enough material, resources, and seminars available for students who want to do much more in terms of adding a bigger ground game to their core system. All in all, the basic concepts are the same…. just applied to a different entry and situation.

[Kombat]

Thanks Thomas for that information. That was very helpful and informative.

Ah, I think I got it now for the most part...so I take it the two differ in there intent or purpose. Ground grappling's main purpose is to take the fight to the ground, keep it on the ground, and then employ the various ground techniques for the purpose of submission (joint locks, mounts, guards, ground and pound, chokes, etc). The main purpose of ground defense is to prevent going to the ground but should that occur, be able to defend oneself on the ground to minimize any damage with the purpose to return to ones feet as quickly as possible.

Does traditional HKD have ground defenses/escapes against things like the mount, side mount, guard, etc? And how similiar is the traditional HKD ground defense training to Combat Hapkido's ground defense/survival training?

Thanks,

Kombat

[Thomas]

Ah, I think I got it now for the most part...so I take it the two differ in there intent or purpose. Ground grappling's main purpose is to take the fight to the ground, keep it on the ground, and then employ the various ground techniques for the purpose of submission (joint locks, mounts, guards, ground and pound, chokes, etc). The main purpose of ground defense is to prevent going to the ground but should that occur, be able to defend oneself on the ground to minimize any damage with the purpose to return to ones feet as quickly as possible.

Wow... nicely said and so much shorter than I would have said it!

Does traditional HKD have ground defenses/escapes against things like the mount, side mount, guard, etc?

Yes, especially in the sense of "someone is on top of you (mount) and choking you". I find the arsenal of defences vs mount and side mount to be fairly simple and effective, again with the purpose of getting them off and/or hurting them and/or getting back to your feet. As far as I know (anyone correct me if I am wrong), traditional hapkido doesn't really deal with the "guard" formally, but I can see how various concepts and technqiues in hapkido would apply there.
And how similiar is the traditional HKD ground defense training to Combat Hapkido's ground defense/survival training?
In my opinion, CH covers the same basic concepts and techniques and then adds in elements of BJJ (especially through the influence of Master Pedro Rodriquez and now Carlson Gracie). The incorporation of BJJ just adds another dimension to ground defence and students who choose to can study ground grappling, i.e. more specialized on the ground than the standard CH curriculum.

[Kombat]

Thanks again Thomas. I also enjoyed the explanation/overview you provided on what CH includes for training on ground defense. I must say that CH does intrigue me and it's of value to learn as much as possible.

Wow... nicely said and so much shorter than I would have said it!

It was your explanation that made the light bulb go off!!!

Kombat