the sai

[SaiMaster]

So does anyone enjoy training with the sai? It is one of my favorites.

[Joseki]

yes i do like the sai (but it is not my best weapon) i like to train with them in ju jitsu and you can apply some very painful locks to.

[Andrew Green]

yep

[lil'fighter]

im training with the sai's at the moment and im learning Kata Shuji Sho........i must say that the sai's look really good but its not my fave weapon.

[kobudo_tob]

Stupid Hasami-uke. Don't think I'll be using that move very often (:D)

[darlph]

Yes, I am training with the sai also. I really enjoy them, they were given to me by a very old friend a few years back. I have found their moves very similar to several other weapons and when I don't have access to them to "play" with I use the escrima sticks.
I once tried the aluminum ones but they didn't feel so right in my hands, although I sure could get them to move at my 1st degree promotion. Fric and Frac I find I like the best.

[USTSDA2003]

The Sai, are my favorite weapon of all. Only problem is I have never gotten to train with them. Do you know of any links I can go to learn basic moves ad stances?

[YODA]

Originally posted by USTSDA2003
The Sai, are my favorite weapon of all. Only problem is I have never gotten to train with them. Do you know of any links I can go to learn basic moves ad stances?


www.gotoapropercluborforgetit.com

:D:D:D

[Joe karate]

good answer

I never used them although we have them. I use the nunchuku and kama, but my favorite is eskrima sticks!!!!!

[USTSDA2003]

:yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes:

[YODA]

Originally posted by USTSDA2003
:yeleyes: :yeleyes: :yeleyes:

LOL!

What you need to ask yourself is this... What do you want to do with the Sai? If medieval oriental reinactment / dancing with a weapon / looking cool is your goal then by all means buy a book or video and play. I'm not passing judgement on the value of this - I play with a katana - Iaido - and I recognise it for what it is.

If you want to learn to fight with the weapon then ask yourself ...

Why?
Would you be prepared to actually fight with them?
Can you see a scenario where that could be justified?
What training do you think would give you the ability to FIGHT with Sai?

It's a pretty difficult weapon to spar with - in fact it was developed largely to fight against the sword.

[USTSDA2003]

Thanks!! We use different weapons for forms in tournaments. I've used Katana, staff, tanfa, and nunchaku. I'm just looking to add another to my tool box.

[YODA]

I see - dancing with weapons. Cool :D

I'll have a rummage and see what info I can come up with for you.

[USTSDA2003]

Thanks again!! Anything will be most helpful!

[YODA]

Ok - here we go....

Some sai techniques (http://www.ikkf.org/vdojo2Q01.html)

I have a book on Sai lurking around somewhere - I'll see if I can dig it out.

[YODA]

Here are another two......

Okinawa kobudo – Matayoshi tradition (http://www.uechi-ryu.com/oldsite/sai_article.htm)

Another text & pics page on Sai (http://www.portaskarate.org/sai.html)

[Andrew Green]

Originally posted by YODA


It's a pretty difficult weapon to spar with - in fact it was developed largely to fight against the sword.

No, it's a great weapon to spar with :D (Although I wouldn't try it with real ones)

and not likely for fighting off a sword, that was the japanese Jitte. Sai where a policing weapon in Okinawa, they are good against sticks, knives and unarmed opponents.

[YODA]

what about the Indonesian version fo the Sai? I heard it pre-dates the Okinawan version?

Pesilat? You out there bud?

[kobudo_tob]

Did somebody mention Matayoshi Okinawan Kobudo? :D

[wayofthedragon]

hi guys.....

oh boy sais.........
bought a pair for my brother. I have no idea how to use those things:D

[Cain]

Did a dragon just say something :eek:

|Cain|

[Andrew Green]

Originally posted by kobudo_tob
Did somebody mention Matayoshi Okinawan Kobudo? :D

Nope ;)

[Jim]

You mean the Kris, Dave?

[SoKKlab]

Tjabang,
That's the Malay/ Indonesian Sai.

Kris is the wavy blade dagger/ sword.

[kobudo_tob]

Nope

OK, i'll go back to my cave then.

[chrispy]

cool, those are great sites yoda!

[Tigermoth]

Why does everyone pick on the sai? There are plenty of impractical weapons out there. Frankly, I don't think most of us will ever have the need or opportunity to actually use most of our weapons anyway. My husband picks on me and tells me to go learn knife fighting. I learned the sais 'cause I liked them not because I hoped to someday stab a guy through the head. The more weapons you learn the stronger your arms and wrists and other weapon skills will become. I also learned several stick weapons. They work well together. Also when you learn a weapon, you learn to defend against that weapon. Not that I would have to do that either.

Expand your arsenal mentally and physically.

Did that come off sounding angry? Sorry :love:

[chrispy]

I picked the sai because they look cool and my favourite ninja turtle back in the day used them..... I would think the most 'practical' weapon to learn today would be the Bo or Jo simply because there are broom handles, mop handles etc... hockey sticks, shower curtain rods, long sticks yadda yadda yadda that you can find at least one of those items almost anywhere you happen to be.

[Kwajman]

So where do you learn sai "forms"? I'm always wanting to learn weapons and their forms/kata, but don't know where to start.

[Mrs Owt]

So where do you learn sai "forms"? I'm always wanting to learn weapons and their forms/kata, but don't know where to start.
Okinawan kobudo schools are a good start. If you can find one of those or a teacher of some Okinawan karate styles they do sai kata.

[Anth]

Aye, Okinawan Kobudo (Tob's art) is the main one, but some styles/clubs of karate do weapons (Issinryu I think does some) :)

[Mrs Owt]

Aye, Okinawan Kobudo (Tob's art) is the main one, but some styles/clubs of karate do weapons (Issinryu I think does some) :)
Isshinryu definitely does sai. It is part of the main syllabus and I am in the midst of kusanku sai in order to test for my brown belt. It isn't an "add-on" but actually part of the cirriculum.

[kenpoguy]

LOL!

What you need to ask yourself is this... What do you want to do with the Sai? If medieval oriental reinactment / dancing with a weapon / looking cool is your goal then by all means buy a book or video and play. I'm not passing judgement on the value of this - I play with a katana - Iaido - and I recognise it for what it is.

If you want to learn to fight with the weapon then ask yourself ...

Why?
Would you be prepared to actually fight with them?
Can you see a scenario where that could be justified?
What training do you think would give you the ability to FIGHT with Sai?

It's a pretty difficult weapon to spar with - in fact it was developed largely to fight against the sword.

Actually the sai had very little part in the weapons department at first. It was created as a farming tool for Japenease farmers way back in order to assist in planting rice and the like. It was only later modified into a weapon. Even still, it was not ever(with the obvious occasional exception)used as a dueling dagger in any form. It was instead literally used as Yoda said, as a way to defend agaisnt swords, and as a "bashing weapon". It was also thrown on many occasions as a distance tool. I think of the sai much like Miyumato Musashi(I highly suggest his novel, "a book of five rings")consided the bokken. Often times Musashi would choose a wooden sword over a steel one, when going into battle and would always come out victorus. If anyone is interested I will post an account taken of his last major battle with a Japeaese warlord. But back to the sai. A sai/like weapon is however used in SCA combat, which is a form of renisance re-enactment. In medieval cirumstances it was used as a dagger, that went hand in hand with the rapier and the whip. Nowadays it is really only for showmanship, though it does built a great deal of strength in the forearms when one goes with the heavier sets of them. Finally, to address the main question of earlier, about where to find techinuqes and manuevers from, my best advice would be to firstly obtain a pair, and SAFETLY "play" around with it yourself to get the hang of it. It is in my opinion a bit more challenging then most weapons, but looks flashy and is just fun to use and watch. Hope this helps

[Aegis]

Actually the sai had very little part in the weapons department at first. It was created as a farming tool for Japenease farmers way back in order to assist in planting rice and the like. It was only later modified into a weapon.

You have no idea how big a can of worms you've just re-opened!

However, to sum up the common points:

What possible use could the sai have had in terms of farming? I've heard people say "seed drill" or even "mini-pitchfork", but these would be very impractical uses for such a shaped tool (and of course the additional prongs would have been useless in either case), This also leads on to another point:

Metal was scarce. In Feudal times, metal wasn't exactly common, so it is exceedingly unlikely that the farmers (ie the poorest members of the society at the time) would be able to afford such implements if they were for farming.

Both of these points together convince many people that the sai weren't designed as a farming tool originally. There is also evidence that similar weapons existed on the continent before they appeared in Okinawa, making it highly likely that they first appeared with the Chinese delegations to Shuri. They MAY later have been disguised as farming tools when weapons were banned from Okinawa, but they almost certainly weren't actual farming tools.

[Anth]

I have to agree with Aegis on this, having had many conversations on the topic in Chat :)

[incubus]

I have never trainied with Sai, although I like this weapon. Some days ago, I watched Elektra at the cinemas. I decided to get a pair of Sai for myself and the link yoda submitted will help to get me started.
I presently, use the Bo & Nunchakus.

[Cudgel]

But back to the sai. A sai/like weapon is however used in SCA combat, which is a form of renisance re-enactment. In medieval cirumstances it was used as a dagger, that went hand in hand with the rapier and the whip. Nowadays it is really only for showmanship, though it does built a great deal of strength in the forearms when one goes with the heavier sets of them.

UMMMM FTW?
what sai like weapon is used in the SCA? and whips werent used as weapons in the renaisance let alone paired with a rapier. And rapiers were a renaisance weapon not a medieval one..

[kenpoguy]

forive my mispronciation, I misplaced the word meideval with renissance. The rapier was infact used during rennisance times. As for the whip, it was most definatly historically used(just not often publisized). And as far the daggers there were many varations that may have apperared similar to the sai. Though, not the same, they had a similar shape and concept. And to the earlier posters, you are correct with the debate about the sai, it is much debatable, as the truth is not fully known. The text and documentations I have read commonly refer to it as a farming tool. I believe once reading of some orignial sai being made of bamboo and wood. Perhaps that was were the farming bit orignated. But yes, it is definetly disputable.

[shootodog]

Tjabang,
That's the Malay/ Indonesian Sai.

Kris is the wavy blade dagger/ sword.

http://www.paulusembilan.nl/images/tjabang.jpg really old.

[Tigermoth]

Okay, I know how a lot of you feel about video training but sometimes that's your only option. I learned the sai from the Panther prod. videos. I thought they covered everything really well. Except, they advertised teaching you to throw them and didn't include it on either video. I impressed my instructor who had never even picked up a sai, And won first at the first tourney I used them in. I'm not endorsing all MA videos though. I've seen some Escrima videos that were about worthless. Spent 30 minutes rolling up, rolling down, rolling up, rolling down. It's a video, we can rewind it and watch it again if we need to("I paid how much for this crap?"). :D

[Devoken]

The Sai may be unconventional(at first), but it is by far my favourite weapon. Everyone looks for that one weapon that defines them, and for me its the Sai. Theres nothing like that feeling of finding a weapon that at first scares you, but when you pick it up later you realise just how empty your hands were. It fits you perfectly , you can feel its potential, just like you can sense potential energy in a contracted muscle. It completes you. Everyone has one. For me its the Sai.