creating new styles

[bubba]

I was woundering if anybody knew if there are any standards in which to create a new style? How do you make that style an offical style?

[Andrew Green]

No such thing as an "official style"

No standards.

[Adam]

You call it "supreme wassname-do" and teach it to some people. Voila! Your own style! No registration required, if that's what you mean.

[Knight_Errant]

I could take the piss, but I've decided to take your post at face value. Maybe, you should talk to some experienced guys, spar with them and try to win some converts. If your style is any good (i.e. complete, effective and realistic), people will take it on board. Just my thoughts.

[Jags]

hmm..i think its very had to create a style, yet on the other hands it really easy, if u wanna just create the style for urself then it dont need no standards or anything, but if u want it to be taken seriosly by others, i would like create maybe a small guide, in which it details what ur style is about, maybe a few basics and so on

[Knight_Errant]

Let's get this absloutely clear: I have no interest in facilitating the following:
Rat fighting
Toad fighting
Mollusc-fu
smellyte

[MATT_LIQUID]

I have my own style!
It consists of kicks to the knee, groin, punches to the throat, loadsa left hocks followed by right cross mainly free style.

I only have one original move which is a secret.

As soon as I refresh my Judo, Aikido and start TKD I'm sure I will come up with a few throws, grappling and ground fighting.

I realy like that Gracie move where you cling on to the opponent so s/he is on top, you then wrap your legs around op. back whilst pressing op. head into your chest then do palm strikes for a few mins and the str8 into a armbar

[morphus]

Most of the time all you need to create a new style is to be able to "talk the talk"!
It helps if you can "walk the walk" but it's not absolutley necessary as there are many b*llsh*t'ers out there!:rolleyes:

[MATT_LIQUID]

I wish it was as easy as walking away, last time I did that a kid pulled a knife while I was walking away and slashed me across my eye. As I turned my head cause he shouted "oi" the knife was kissing my face (there was no way of avoidance. Thanx for bringing up old memories morph, you touched a sore spot. O man I feel ill.

[Knight_Errant]

Is MrPrat still out there? Are you reading this?

[YODA]

Originally posted by Knight_errant
Is MrPrat still out there? Are you reading this?


The cat got him.

[Freeform]

Good!!!

[nunchaku8587]

i'm working on my own style right now

i call it shishu do, i think it means poetic way in japanese

it's all about expression with using a japanese katana

i've written down the basic philosophy, the first four forms, basic and intermediate moves, philosophies behind the first two forms, and i'm brainstorming on different sparring rules, ranking systems (although i have one in mind) and just different ways to express yourself, like poetry

i have a few students in it as well

if you interested in hearing anymore about shishu do, PM me with a question of some sort and i'll PM you back

[Brad Ellin]

Personally, I don't think you can "create" a new style. It just sort of evolves on it's own. You get good at what you do, add your own flavor to it, are able to demonstrate it's effectiveness and teach it, and pretty soon other people refer to it by YOUR name (Kurohana Ryu Ninpo Taijutsu, got a nice ring to it doncha think?)

[Orange...?]

My friend plans on creating a new martial art style, and it's not that complicated. All you have to do is:
Create a name for it
Create rules for fighting
Create technics (probabuly hardest part)
Create combos
I Don't plan to create my own martial art (or do I?) , but I think this is the way to do it.

[shonuff]

There more than asian martial arts around. Western martial arts are often not included in "martial arts" because the masses associate martial arts with asia. Martial Arts are not regulated and that's a problem. Most crooks out there will create their own version of an asian MA and name it accordingly fooling many into thinking that what they practice is worth learning.

Western people create their own MAs all the time because it's too easy. This how we got the MCDOJO. There is nothing to stop frauds from creating their own MA. We have people who train in several MAs for a few months or a year and then found their own mish mash style so they can make a quick buck.

The MA world has too many like Frank Dux and Ashida Kim out there.

MA is so bladly organized and so very few of the MA associations are well known that many of these frauds create their fraud friendly organizations that will accept anyone and everyone without checking credentials.

[Matt_Bernius]

Creating "new" martial arts has been around since the dawn of time (or at least the beginnings of modern martial arts). And the only reason it might seem like there is an uptick now in it is becuase we have better communication system.

In China often every family had their own family system. Sometimes it's was part of a larger association, often it wasn't. Why don't we remember all of those systems? The only lasted for a few generations.

Same thing with the Phillipines. Evern more so there perhaps. If your family system wasn't good, you died. And it died with you.

How many people honestly think that most the arts you see advertised in your average martial arts rag will be around in 10 years let alone in a generation?

That being said, there is nothing wrong about creating your own art. And there are often good reaons for it (especially if your root art has a history of doing such thing). And there's nothing wrong with teaching it. If it's good and your a good instructor and you get the right students then it may stick around. But remember you could have the best art in the world, but it you can't teach it well, it dies with you (and that happened a LOT!).

- Matt

[shonuff]

There is a problem because many are just a lot of bunk that try to cash in on orientalism. Why name something Ninjitsu or XXX Kempo if the person has never been to asia or has any mastery of any asian martial art?

Why don't they just call it "Bob's Family Weapons system" or "Bob's Unarmed System?"

Why not just tell people to screw MA and pick up some sticks and make up whatever they want and use it in combat?

[Matt_Bernius]

Originally posted by shonuff
There is a problem because many are just a lot of bunk that try to cash in on orientalism. Why name something Ninjitsu or XXX Kempo if the person has never been to asia or has any mastery of any asian martial art?

Why don't they just call it "Bob's Family Weapons system" or "Bob's Unarmed System?"

Why not just tell people to screw MA and pick up some sticks and make up whatever they want and use it in combat? Well, I ca't speak of Ninjitsu, but most of those Kempo folks use Kempo in the title because that was what they studied (unless I'm really wrong).

As far as "Bob's Family Weapons system", there are a lot of those out there. Check the latest issues of Backbelt for example. Most of those flash-in-the-pan systems typically have names that involve "self defense" and "ultimate" rather than Asian words and phrases.

As far as "Why not just tell people to screw MA and pick up some sticks and make up whatever they want and use it in combat?", I hate to tell you but that's how you create a MA.

- Matt

[Syd]

I think I'm pretty deadly after a few cans of HEINZ. I'm gonna call mine BLAZING SADDLES DO. It's gonna be hard getting anyone near the DO-JO-THO. I don't think the insurance will cover sinus damage! However, I've got a new crutchless GI design with a rear open flap for extra ventilation and I'm thinking of making the club logo a red kidney bean with a couple of black circular arrows indicating wind speed against yellow background.

The first move of our system is a flying side leap with rear flap extended into the OPEN position. These are part of a group of moves we term FARTER sometimes known by others as KATA.

YES! ;)

[shonuff]

Most people who start MAs don't do it because of necessity. They do it to make money and often have no idea what they are doing. THey don't field test an MA, they just make up stuff based on what they see on Power Rangers.

Most people don't start "Bob's Weapons System." They go ahead and start Iron Eagle American Karate, Bald Eagle Patriot Kempo, Captain America Ninjitsu, Shogun Samurai Concepts Kung Fu, Butterfly Wing Jujitsu, and claim they are masters of some secret asian MA no one has ever heard about or that their 15 green belts in 15 different styles of karate and tkd, first aid certification, and their 6 weeks of Taichi qualify them to give themselves a 15th Dan and proclaim they are an ultimate master sage who must be referred to as Dr. Yoshi Kurosawa (and not John Doe). That's the problem with people who found their own MA's. Many times it's just losers who couldn't find another way to make money or feel good about themselves.

[redbull]

If you want to create your own martial arts style it would help if you have some serious experience with an alerady established style.

[Orange...?]

Originally posted by redbull
If you want to create your own martial arts style it would help if you have some serious experience with an alerady established style.

Yah. That is very true. You have to know another style really well.

[ap Oweyn]

I don't really understand the thinking behind creating your own martial art. Or, more accurately, I don't understand setting out to create your own martial art.

Developing your own art based on your experiences in training is one thing. In fact it's almost a no brainer. I have my own style. It isn't named or anything. It doesn't have an established philosophy. Or a set of forms. But it's the natural consequence of experience and revision.

The problem with setting out to create your own style is that the cart is in front of the horse. You sit down to think up a name, a philosophy, and moves that embody that philosophy. So where's your allegiance? Your creation? Or reality?

In my opinion, experiences have to come first. Specific experiences. Empty hand experience doesn't qualify you to found a new style of fencing, for example.

This holds doubly true for people who are teaching. If you're doing it solely for your own edification, you're not hurting anyone but yourself. But if you're teaching... Your students are relying on your experiences. They're taking you at your word based on your experiences. You owe it to them to know precisely what you're on about.


Stuart B.

[KenpoDavid]

Originally posted by ap Oweyn
I don't really understand the thinking behind creating your own martial art. Or, more accurately, I don't understand setting out to create your own martial art.

you don't????

EGO

with a pinch of LAZY

[shuyun3]

it depends if it's a new style or a new martial art altogether.

for styles this is as much as i know:

for example you think you have developed a new style of ju-jitsu you notify a ruling body and give them a demo (a darn good one). If you perform well enough and there is merit you may get inaugurated as the 10th dan for that art. but that's a very far shot for most of us. I just don't know which governing bodies do those recognition tests.

Sikaran a Filipino kick fighting art got recognized as a karate style though its origins are completely Filipino. The sikaran practicioners competed in Karate tournaments and folowed the conventions.

It is "easier" to invent a style in the FMA. But claiming to do so could be dangerous as you might get challenged by incumbent masters to prove your mettle.

but personally you may do your darndest to make your own style and use it. but you'll either sound too high and mighty proclaiming that or sound like a fraud. It's safer to claim and prove that you know how to fight. Use the term martial art as a general description and you won't step on any toes that way.

many well meaning people (those who aren't in it for a buck) who develop their own styles do so because of lack of access to formal training. But if you are involved in any formal training there is so much room already for improvisation. so why bother labelling it. if all you have is a different technique here and there why vreate conflict and divide allegiances?

Just a thought

[Kenpo Kicker]

I have a new ma in mind that I want to teach :) . It will be very hard for me :( .

Edit: I cannot find a label for what I want to teach actually. There are no styles that are like what I have in mind. I need to call it something. Maybe use my name with the arts taught as a cross-trained school. I would also consider that a unique ma since it is a mixture. This may be better than labeling it.

[IRONMAN]

TIGER SHULMAN'S KARATE.....need i say more

[Zhong Kuei]

Maybe I can tap some knowledge here and get a fresh POV or two. I have created a style of my own, and before I get flamed to a golden crisp I talk the talk and walk the walk and have demonstrated in front of groups individually as well as demonstrating against any number of exponents from varying styles. A brief synopsis would be that it is a mix of Chinese and Japanese with a wide variation of strikes, blocks, grips, etc. In essence it is not one, but two styles (an example of this would be because I have chosen the dragon as my animal of choice, one would be the Young Dragon [a closed fist style, based mostly on strength, young dragon feeling brash, invincible, headstrong, thinks all can be solved by the fist.] or something akin to that, and the other would be Old Dragon [primarily an open hand style, a lot more smooth, flowing and internal. The old dragon is calmer, smoother all-together more well-rounded and less brutal than the young dragon.]. Again I have set no names, I'm just giving my vague idea.). As I have chosen to make it an "animal" style, I have chosen the Dragon, not just becasue it sounds cool, or looks good on the badge, but regarding some of the techniques I have created have involved say, claw attacks, sweeping arm attacks, etc. and some of the other techiques have only been closesly expressed by the Dragon style in some multiple-animal styles of Kungfu. The style is pretty much finished except for the name, which is pretty much undecided. I had originally decided to call it Ryudo (Way of the Dragon) out of respect to Bruce Lee and the great influence that he has played in my life of MA. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou.

[Gyaku]

I always thought that traditionaly the development of a new style was subject to some kind of "divine insight" aquired through tons of real combat and meditation or gruelling training. I think Ueshiba amongst others claimed this.

[Aegis]

Maybe I can tap some knowledge here and get a fresh POV or two. I have created a style of my own, and before I get flamed to a golden crisp I talk the talk and walk the walk and have demonstrated in front of groups individually as well as demonstrating against any number of exponents from varying styles.
You're 19, how much developing and demonstrating can you really have done? All of the creators of lasting styles in the past have had much more experience than you before going so far as to say they've created something new. It's fair enough if it's just your personal style mixed from a couple of other things, but if it's nothing new, don't call it new. If at some point you want to teach it, fine, but make sure you have a hell of a lot more experience than you do now. At 19 you cannot have had the necessary experience in teaching OR application of your art.

A brief synopsis would be that it is a mix of Chinese and Japanese with a wide variation of strikes, blocks, grips, etc. In essence it is not one, but two styles (an example of this would be because I have chosen the dragon as my animal of choice, one would be the Young Dragon [a closed fist style, based mostly on strength, young dragon feeling brash, invincible, headstrong, thinks all can be solved by the fist.] or something akin to that, and the other would be Old Dragon [primarily an open hand style, a lot more smooth, flowing and internal. The old dragon is calmer, smoother all-together more well-rounded and less brutal than the young dragon.].
Why have 2 such contrasting philosophies within one style? Wouldn't it make more sense to pick a philosophy and stick to it rather than try to complicate things by saying "this is what you do if you're in a bad mood, and this is what you do if you're feelign particularly enlightened today" etc? You will just confuse yourself and any students you ever have.

The style is pretty much finished except for the name, which is pretty much undecided. I had originally decided to call it Ryudo (Way of the Dragon) out of respect to Bruce Lee and the great influence that he has played in my life of MA. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou.
At 19 years old most people would have had enough difficulty reaching instructor level in one art. Mastery of that art would still be many years beyond them. And yet you feel you've almost completed a new martial art containing 2 distinct styles? Personally I'd recommend going and training under established instructors for another decade or so. If at the end of that you still want to start marketing your style, give it a go. Until then you won't be taken seriously by anyone who has already decided to devote their life to training, and you will end up only teaching students who want to look good and think the dragon on the badge is "cool".

[Polar Bear]

No offence Aegis but you don't know this guy. There are many people who have achieved much by 19. There is far too much dogma in MA and if his style works it will flourish, if not, it will die out like many others but aleast give him credit for trying. Evolution requires experimentation.

Good Luck Zhong Keui, find your own road and walk it lad. Remember failure can teach you as much as success.

The Bear.

[Visage]

A few points that were said to me when i let people here know i was developing my own style.

1: Dont fall into the "instructor complex", thinking that your able to teach anyone anything

2: Dont stop training. You might have your own style, but if you really want to be taken seriously you have to keep up training in ready-established styles. This way, people can see you have experience in other more "well known" styles.

3: Dont start teaching yet! Not on a large scale anyway. A friend here or there who wants to learn a few basics is ok, just dont get ahead of yourself.

My input.... Complete.

Johnson

[Aegis]

No offence Aegis
None taken.

but you don't know this guy.
True, but I have seen countless hundreds/thousands of people like him pass through various web forums.

There are many people who have achieved much by 19.
How many examples of a 19 year old creating a good martial art can you name? I can't think of a single example, but am open to being shown otherwise.

There is far too much dogma in MA
dogma (taken from dictionary.com):


A doctrine or a corpus of doctrines relating to matters such as morality and faith, set forth in an authoritative manner by a church.
An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true. See Synonyms at doctrine (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=doctrine).
A principle or belief or a group of them: “The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present” (Abraham Lincoln).
You think there are too many principles in martial arts?

If you are referring to the fact that few people in the martial arts world trust newly created arts, there is a reason for this. As I mentioned above, most of us have seen hundreds of these new arts appear online and nothing ever comes of them. Why do people keep doing it? Because it's easy perhaps. Without criticism these arts might flourish without having any real merit. With criticism and skepticism a new art must prove itself to be worthwhile before martial artists will accept it, and that shouldn't be a problem if the art was worth founding in the first place.


and if his style works it will flourish, if not, it will die out like many others but aleast give him credit for trying. Evolution requires experimentation.

I might have given him credit for it had I not already seen this sort of thing so many times before. I'll give someone credit for attempting to invent magnetic levitation for cars, but not someone who comes up with a great new idea called "wheels".

[Polar Bear]

2. An authoritative principle, belief, or statement of ideas or opinion, especially one considered to be absolutely true. See Synonyms at doctrine.

Yup, too many martial arts that state that their art is the only true way and no-one must deviate from the true teachings. You don't agree?

[Aegis]

In which case why not join an art that doesn't restrict you to only what they want you to know? The Jujutsu I study actively encourages us to learn other stuff and incorporate it into our own fighting style, but at the end of the day it's still the same art with the same overall philosophy.

In fact I've only ever seen a few people claim that their art is the only true way, and almost all of them have looked to be McDojos. So no, I don't believe that there is too much dogma in most martial arts.

[Zhong Kuei]

Guys, thankyou for your support (on the most part, eh Aegis :) ). Basically the main thing that I would have to say is Aegis, I assume you have never met me, therefore, why be so quick to scorn? You say how much developingand demonstration have you done? I reply with, when is a punch not a punch? (OK, a bit cryptic, but i haven't slept in a while.) Point bieng, a Chinese exponent and a Japanese exponent could look at someone executing a mae geri (front kick), and both could say that their style "invented" the move. Basically, I'm not trying to re-invent the wheel, because, surprise surprise, after thousands of years, it's pretty much all been done.
As for the demonstration, I assume you mean in my style? I have given small demos for groups of freiends and a few teachers, who have all given me nothing but well-wishes and support for my endeavour, and praise it for its (even if it is only slight) originality. And, yes, if someone hasn't done something in the way I am, TADA! It's new!

Your second statement is a bit silly, I am not trying to mix their freakin' religions or anything, it's just that I have trained in a lot of Japanese and Chinese styles, and the Japanese is different from the Chinese (eg. more rigid, hardly ever any simultaneous moves incorporated.), and I have tried in my own way to bring the different types of fighting together.

I have been training under established instructors my whole life. I wouldn't undertake the idea if I didn't think I was good enough, which according to everyone else I have talked to at gatherings, I am. I never said I wanted to market it. Martial arts is my life, I don't need to invent something to make ends meet or whatever else.

In conclusion, your opinion is your opinion, and thats as far as it goes, so I choose to ignore most respectfully. Thankyou though for putting in the effort to formulate such a concise argument.

Polar Bear, thankyou. For your opinion as well as your debating. I shall find that road and take it as far as I can.

Tejitsudo, thankyou for the reply, and now I shall "answer" as it were, your points.
1) Thanks for the reminder, I have been told this a couple of times already, and I shall stay sane!
2) I train most rigourously almost every day, and still practice my other arts, mostly the weaponry sides of them at the moment though.
3) You hit the nail on the head there! I have only started "showing" one of my friends. I have already taught him most of what he knows, and have been "smoothing out the creases" on him.

Aegis, again with the criticism. Fair point, I myself don't like newly created styles, which is why I myself was shocked that the idea came into make head and came to fruition so swiftly. "Why do people keep doing it? Because it's easy perhaps." OK then, you go to anyone who has founded their own style that isn't money sucking crap and say that and they will tell you about the hours upon hours they spent formulating the different ideas over a long period of time. It is far from easy thinking of new adaptations on something that has been done so much already, it is like trying to fill in the flaws on the roof of the Cistine Chapel, ie. damn hard, but at the end of the day, you reap what you sow, and I have put my heart and sole into thinking up the various details about my style. I see it as my baby, as most artists will about their masterpiece.

Again, thankyou (almost) all for your positive support, and thankyou in particular Aegis, because now I have an excuse to put my fingers in my ears and go "La la la la la!". Only joking, but I hope your aren't overly offended if iI class your response as a waste of my time.

[Polar Bear]

So no, I don't believe that there is too much dogma in most martial arts.

As with every walk of life there are radicals and traditionalists. We just fall on opposite sides on this one.
Read my MAP thread on "fighting on first principles" to understand my viewpoint.

Regards
The Bear.

[SoKKlab]

if his style works it will flourish, if not, it will die out like many others Not true, many excellent Martial Systems have died out due their lack of accessability, available practice or the fact that they 'don't look pretty like that what so and so does in the movies' etc.

Some examples:

Most Koryu systems of Japanese Ju Jitsu, most of which are as relevant to today as they were then, but most people don't want to learn them, or have no access to them, hence they are either very rare or no longer exist.

Aegis often makes the point that most Japanese People don't know what Ju Jitsu is and he's right, Japanese Ju Jitsu is a rare thing in its homeland.

Catch Wrestling, a veritable rarity these days, only being sustained because of the NHB/ MMA interest in this brilliant system of Submission Wrestling.

Same goes for most forms of indigenous Submission Wrestling here in the British Isles, such as Carraigh Bharaid (Hebridean Submission Wrestling) which have about three Practitioners and their dog practising them, does this mean that they are no good. No it means that they Don't look pretty and ask people to actually, you know, sweat a bit, get dirty etc.

Pankration. Tried and Trusted Olympic event, brilliant Combat Sport, died out, has been partially resurrected as Modern Day Pancration or Pancrase.

Ling Lom. Seen as being a higher state of achievement in the Thai Arts than Muay Thai, very rare these days, as are most of the Combat Arts of Burma, Thailand etc.

Shedloads of excellent Chinese Systems have died out, due to either Cultural Repression or because they didn't look pretty.

Fact is that alot of Martial Arts that exist today, are not Martial...Imagine that!, systems that are being Propogated that have never been tested as to their Combat Effectiveness and that don't have much to do with Real Fighting...The Horror. Bad Copies of Bad copies Makes More Bad Copies until the sound of gushing turns out to be hot air and water...

So my advice to you, for Marketing purposes, (just so that it doesn't die out), is make your Martial Art look pretty, preferably get a really fancy looking pair of Pyjamas to wear (Gingham's Good), Have loads of Flicky Flacky Flying Techniques, call yourself SokeLicious and Market it well, preferably stating that it makes you invincible to pain, that it defeats multiple attackers with one stroke.

Alternatively Read K-Girls take on people who create new styles, common-sense never smelt so good....

Yours Sokklab.
The Righteous and Beneolvent Founder of Mam Tea Do.
SokeyDokey of Bara Brith and Head FungShe of Valley Tu-Doh
147th Dan Dare in Viral Marketing and Email-Fu.

[pabsma]

Sokklab, I think you took Polar Bear's comment a bit out of context. I think he wasn't trying too say only crap styles die out. Also there is an argument that all Oriental martial arts could be considered resurrections of arts due to numerous conquests and political transformations and being band under these conditions, except for the word of some guy saying he practised it in secret. At the end of the day the style does not matter it is the individual that makes it work or not.

Just a side note for thought. With the mass delussion of how superior Oriental martial systems are, when was the last time a Western nation was conquered by an Oriental nation and vice versa. I think history would show that Western martial systems could be considered superior due to being more successful and have been adopted by virtually all world armies. The proof is in the pudding. So lets not get carried away about how effective a style is because it isn't when compared to the modern martial tradition of drive by shooting.

PAB

[SoKKlab]

Sokklab, I think you took Polar Bear's comment a bit out of context. Nope, I took them for what they are. Simplistic and incorrect to the point of fallacy......

But Hey, if you guys want to carry on revelling in Delusional nonsense and indulging others about inventing your own style of Bad Budo, don't mind me, I love a good laugh...

[ap Oweyn]

Zhong Kuei,

Are you sure that Ryudo means "way of the dragon?" Do is japanese. And ryu is japanese. But I wasn't aware it meant "dragon." (Granted I don't know japanese, but I've never heard that translation before.)

As far as the style, my gut reaction is much like Aegis'. But Polar Bear is right that we should be careful not to get too cynical about this sort of thing. And in some sense, I think I have. Maybe I should just get back to asking questions.

So, at the risk of sounding like I'm evaluating your idea (which you actually requested now that I think about it): How many years of experience do you have? Do you have any video of your style? (I know that not everyone tapes themselves, but actually watching someone move remains the most valuable way to see what they're on about.) Do you spar? Under what rules and conditions?

Cheers.


Stuart

[Visage]

I think ryu do is translated to something like "School Way". ??? Correct me if im wrong. :D

[ap Oweyn]

I think ryu do is translated to something like "School Way". ??? Correct me if im wrong. :D

I think that's right, yeah.

While we're on the subject, how'd you arrive at your name? TeJitsuDo. Way of the method of empty hand, yeah? What was the thought process behind it?

:)

[Visage]

Way of the method of the hand (no kara, meaning empty). Combination of the main arts that i practice. karaTE, juJUTSU,tae kwon DO. Tried to find out the exact meaning of the parts. I know its probably not accurate, but i will be changing it soon.

[ap Oweyn]

Accurate or no, I kinda dig it.

[Visage]

Accurate or no, I kinda dig it.

Cheers :)

Took all my brain power for the next decade to work it out! :D

[ap Oweyn]

Cheers :)

Took all my brain power for the next decade to work it out! :D

Eh, no worries. How much thinking do you really plan on doing for the next 10 years anyway?

Me? I'm limiting myself to "me hungry" and "fire hurt." That should do it. :)


Stuart

[Visage]

Pretty much that. I was thinking of adding "mmm, beer". But im out of mind-wattage now. :(

[ap Oweyn]

Depending on how stout you like your beer, that could probably be covered under "me hungry." :)

So when people create their own styles, specifically those with forms (kata, whatever), how do you go about creating a form? What assumptions do you start with? How about drills? Etc. Do you keep a record of needs you've noticed and then build drills around that? Or what?

Just curious.


Stuart

[Visage]

Um, say im trying to develop a new kata (or whatever name you want to give it), i start by deciding what level it is. Is it a beginners kata, aimed at gaining a firm understanding of basic techniques? Or is it a more advanced sequence, focusing on movement and transition?
Once i've decided on this, i work out which techniques are going to apply to the level of the kata. For example, its not a bright idea to have a reverse turn hook kick in a beginners kata. Once i have a list of moves that will be covered, i work out a pattern in which each technique will be performed with both arms or legs. Usually working with the traditional "H" pattern.

As for drills, unless i were to start teaching as a proffesion, i don't have many planned drills. I focus a lot on blocking before teaching offense. So, plenty of good ol' "in the air" movement practice.
Something i found effective for helping increase blocking reflex.

RULE: If it stops an attack and doesnt do you major harm (ie, any more than a bruise on the arm or such), then consider it a block.

Taking a pair of focus mitts, have your student stand in front of you in a fighting stance (take this to mean whatever the practitioner feels comfortable in). With the focus mitts on your hands, make attacking swings (not hard), and simply get your student to block the mitts before they land a strike. As your student gets more skilled at blocking, increase the speed of the attacks and the direction the attacks come from.

This is the main "drill" i use at the moment. Its quite affective too :D

[Matt_Bernius]

Great post SoKKlab as always.

Zhong Kuei, I have to admit that I do tend to be dubious of anyone who begins to codify and teach a system by age 19. But I'm also dubious of anyone who claims that they can teach themselves the arts without an instructor. Or anyone who as mastered Dim Mak. All these things are possible, but not necessarily probable. I've met a lot of people who have claimed each of the above. I've very rarely met a person who could deliver. So in this you need to be prepared to fight an uphill battle.

That being said, here's my view. A good system is made up of three things:
1. Doctrine - what is the highest level goal of the system.
2. Strategies - what ideas are put in place to achieve that doctrine.
3. Techniques - the basest part. How are those strategies implemented. What is your delivery system.

Beyond that and spread across each of those areas is your training/teaching methodology. How do you convey all of that.

So I've seen a lot of talk about techniques and some about strategy in your posts. But beyond all the young and old dragon stuff, what's your system about. You need to be able to express the docrine in no more than a paragraph. An optimal case is a sentance.

For example, the doctrine from the art that I study:

Wan Yi Chuan seeks to overcome all obsticle through adaptation and flow.

Then what are your strategies. This is an example of a strategy used to accomplish the doctrine:
Learn to fight in all ranges and to transition between all ranges.

The finally there is the techniques:
Fight through all ranges by transitioning between the different animal systems depending on the spacial relationship to the oponent.

Strategy and doctrine are far more important than the actual techniques from a systematic perspective. To Polar bear's point, dogma in the arts often comes from placing individual techniques ahead of the doctrine and strategy of the art. Once techniques become sacrosanct the art ceases to evolve.

Anyhoo, if you don't have a clearly articulatable doctrine and set of strategies then in my opinion you don't have a true system. Rather what you have is a collection of techniques.

On a different note, on the post from TeJitsuDo, in my opinion there is no such thing as a beginner or advanced Kata. There should only be a Kata. And that should be able to be taught at numerous levels. The Pinan Katas are some of the first taught but considered to contain some of the most dangerous techniques (joint and neck breaks) when fully explored.

Hope all of this helps!

- Matt

[Visage]

Great post SoKKlab as always.


On a different note, on the post from TeJitsuDo, in my opinion there is no such thing as a beginner or advanced Kata. There should only be a Kata. And that should be able to be taught at numerous levels. The Pinan Katas are some of the first taught but considered to contain some of the most dangerous techniques (joint and neck breaks) when fully explored.

Hope all of this helps!

- Matt

I see what your saying. But is it realistic to expect a complete novice to be able to understand complex techniques such as these? Sure, it may be easy to do the arm or leg movements, but can a novice understand how it works in conjuction with other techniques being used at the same time.

I believe in my last post, i was getting at the idea of not getting students to run before they can walk.

James.

EDIT: Hey, i just noticed your from Rochester in USA! Im from the original Rochester in England! Cooincidence? kewl! :D

[Aegis]

Basically the main thing that I would have to say is Aegis, I assume you have never met me, therefore, why be so quick to scorn?
I'm a skeptic. I've seen hundreds of people come up with new stuff, most of whom don't have the necessary experience to teach ONE art, let alone blend two or more together to form a new style.

You say how much developing and demonstration have you done? I reply with, when is a punch not a punch? (OK, a bit cryptic, but i haven't slept in a while.) Point bieng, a Chinese exponent and a Japanese exponent could look at someone executing a mae geri (front kick), and both could say that their style "invented" the move.
So you're saying that there is no difference between front kicks throughout all martial arts? In which case are you blending several arts or just extrapolating from one? If that's not what you're saying, why exactly did you make this observation?

Basically, I'm not trying to re-invent the wheel, because, surprise surprise, after thousands of years, it's pretty much all been done.
So what would you say you're doing? You look like you're taking a wheel and presenting it to the public as something new. If you're not introducing new stuff to existing arts, you are merely repackaging old stuff. In which case why make a new style when all you've learned has come from existing styles? Why make a new art in the first place?


As for the demonstration, I assume you mean in my style? I have given small demos for groups of freiends and a few teachers, who have all given me nothing but well-wishes and support for my endeavour, and praise it for its (even if it is only slight) originality. And, yes, if someone hasn't done something in the way I am, TADA! It's new!

But you've already said you aren't adding anything new, so what exactly is new about it?


Your second statement is a bit silly, I am not trying to mix their freakin' religions or anything, it's just that I have trained in a lot of Japanese and Chinese styles, and the Japanese is different from the Chinese (eg. more rigid, hardly ever any simultaneous moves incorporated.), and I have tried in my own way to bring the different types of fighting together.

You've trained in a hard form of karate then. What you described sounds nothing like jujutsu, aikido, kendo, shorinji kempo, etc, which are all fluid and contain soft, circular elements throughout and use simultanous moves where possible.

Since you've claimed to have trained in "a lot of Japanese and Chinese styles", would you mind stating which styles and what grades you achieved in each? This will allow readers to get a clearer picture of your past experience.

I have been training under established instructors my whole life.
So have I.

I wouldn't undertake the idea if I didn't think I was good enough, which according to everyone else I have talked to at gatherings, I am. I never said I wanted to market it.
Who exactly has said you're good enough? Are these people skilled in martial arts, or friends you've asked to watch? Obviously the ones who have watched your displays are fairly important to this discussion, so if you could provide more information that would be great.

Martial arts is my life, I don't need to invent something to make ends meet or whatever else.
So what is your motivation for creating a new art? What made you decide to take this path rather than learning enough to teach in another/several other art(s)?

In conclusion, your opinion is your opinion, and thats as far as it goes, so I choose to ignore most respectfully.
That's your choice. My choice will be to remain skeptical until I have reason to believe that this is a worthwhile venture.

Aegis, again with the criticism.
If you think I've criticised you you're in for a rough ride if you make claims like this more in the future. I've so far only asked questions and made comparisons between the apparent situation and previous cases of people making up their own stuff.

Fair point, I myself don't like newly created styles, which is why I myself was shocked that the idea came into make head and came to fruition so swiftly.
Then I'll ask again: why did you do it?

"Why do people keep doing it? Because it's easy perhaps." OK then, you go to anyone who has founded their own style that isn't money sucking crap and say that and they will tell you about the hours upon hours they spent formulating the different ideas over a long period of time.
Find me someone who has made their own worthwhile style and I'll ask them why they did it too. Like I said though, most of the people who make up their own stuff end up teaching a mish-mash of techniques from various arts with no real understanding of the underlying principles. I've seen it before and I'm sure I'll see it again.

Most styles that are worthwhile were created after DECADES of training in various arts. Now I know you've been training for a fairly long time, but a year's training as a kid does not equal a year's training as an adult, so you must realise that people won't necessarily give you as much automatic respect as someone with the same number of years in the arts as an adult.


It is far from easy thinking of new adaptations on something that has been done so much already, it is like trying to fill in the flaws on the roof of the Cistine Chapel, ie. damn hard, but at the end of the day, you reap what you sow, and I have put my heart and sole into thinking up the various details about my style. I see it as my baby, as most artists will about their masterpiece.

It's hard to think of new adaptations because it's not that necessary. If an art has a problem with a technique it should sort it out itself through testing. If it doesn't, something is wrong with the art and people should try learning another one.

Again, thankyou (almost) all for your positive support, and thankyou in particular Aegis, because now I have an excuse to put my fingers in my ears and go "La la la la la!". Only joking, but I hope your aren't overly offended if iI class your response as a waste of my time.
Whether or not you like what I'm saying, it is not a waste of your time to learn to answer questions or deal with criticism. If your art is worthwhile it will stand up to questioning. If it (and you) can't deal with that, you should give up right now, because you will be in for worse from people less diplomatic than me.

[Matt_Bernius]

I see what your saying. But is it realistic to expect a complete novice to be able to understand complex techniques such as these? Sure, it may be easy to do the arm or leg movements, but can a novice understand how it works in conjuction with other techniques being used at the same time.Good question James. I don't expect a novice to understand the complex techniques. I do expect a novice to understand that there are more complex applications that can be derived from the forms. From the beginning I think arts should support the idea of form interpretation. A teacher should be able to show their students the basic application and everyone should practice it. And then, just to spark the student's curiosity, the instructor should demonstrate some other interpretations. The goal here is not to teach the student to immediately be able to execute those techniques. Rather it's to show how Katas and forms are multi-dimensional. That rather than simply being the obvious outer block, chamber, and reverse punch that there is a potential grabbing action in there.

The goal isn't immediate compitency, it's sowing the seeds for future growth.

Thinking of existing forms as basic, or creating a beginner's kata with a single interpretation, in my opinion undermines this. Any high level TMAist I've met feels that rather than utilizing a high number of single dimensional forms, its preferable to have a handful of deep forms that can be taught and explored on many levels.

- Matt

[Zhong Kuei]

Zhong Kuei,

Are you sure that Ryudo means "way of the dragon?" Do is japanese. And ryu is japanese. But I wasn't aware it meant "dragon." (Granted I don't know japanese, but I've never heard that translation before.)

As far as the style, my gut reaction is much like Aegis'. But Polar Bear is right that we should be careful not to get too cynical about this sort of thing. And in some sense, I think I have. Maybe I should just get back to asking questions.

So, at the risk of sounding like I'm evaluating your idea (which you actually requested now that I think about it): How many years of experience do you have? Do you have any video of your style? (I know that not everyone tapes themselves, but actually watching someone move remains the most valuable way to see what they're on about.) Do you spar? Under what rules and conditions?

Cheers.


Stuart

Technically, the true Japanese for dragon is ryuu, but I believe that when it is joined with another kanji or hiragana, the last -u gets lopped off. I have never documented the style through the medium of video, but I might do at some point. My sparring routine is minimal or no padding and semi contact all over. I don't do tournaments anymore, this is just how I and my partner (not life..., martial) train on a day to day basis.

[Visage]

Good question James. I don't expect a novice to understand the complex techniques. I do expect a novice to understand that there are more complex applications that can be derived from the forms. From the beginning I think arts should support the idea of form interpretation.


Agreed :) But perhaps students should be shown other interpretations of the basic techniques in each form/kata/poomse, before moving onto the more advanced techniques. Thats the idea that i meant to put across.


A teacher should be able to show their students the basic application and everyone should practice it. And then, just to spark the student's curiosity, the instructor should demonstrate some other interpretations.


Agreed again, but i would prefer it if students had a solid understanding of the basic principles before being "inspired" into exploring other options.


The goal here is not to teach the student to immediately be able to execute those techniques. Rather it's to show how Katas and forms are multi-dimensional. That rather than simply being the obvious outer block, chamber, and reverse punch that there is a potential grabbing action in there.


Agreed. But even the simple techniques such as outer block, chamber, and reverse punch can have multiple understandings. Perhaps the reverse punch can be changed into a sleeve grab? Then pulling your imaginary opponent into your front kick?


The goal isn't immediate compitency, it's sowing the seeds for future growth.


Perhaps we should plow the furrow before we sow the seeds. Ie, gain a firm understanding of the basic principles and some of their wider applications before moving onto more advanced techniques.


Thinking of existing forms as basic, or creating a beginner's kata with a single interpretation, in my opinion undermines this.


Agreed. But i did not mean to imply that beginner kata in my style have only the one application. They are merely basic run-of-the-mill techniques. They can be used in other ways.


Any high level TMAist I've met feels that rather than utilizing a high number of single dimensional forms, its preferable to have a handful of deep forms that can be taught and explored on many levels.

- Matt

"One must know the fundamentals to reveal the essence."

James

[Matt_Bernius]

Fair points James,

I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't ensure that student's have a firm grip of the basics. But there's no damage to be done in demonstrating other possibilities. It's good to get people to lift their heads up to see the mountain top while they're walking the path.

And I didn't mean to suggest that your beginner's katas have only one application. I just simply object to the idea that a kata or form would be "beginner" vs. "advanced."

- Matt

[Aegis]

Hmm, I notice that my comment didn't get a reply there... Well, since I have nothing to reply to, I'll sum up the actual information we have about this art so far:

It's based on dragons. Note that this has nothing do do with just looking cool
It's a blend of "a lot of Chinese and Japanese styles" (as yet un-named)
It has semi contact sparring.
The only other things I've noted so far is a lack of actual knowledge of Japanese martial arts at least, describing them as "rigid with hardly any simultaneous moves" and no real knowledge of why a new system needs to be created in this instance.

Seriously though, anyone who has a legitimate reason to create a new style should be able to provide so much more information in a single post than we've managed to glean from an entire thread's worth of posts. The fact that he chose to answer a question about the name of his style rather than any number of technical queries raised by myself and others makes me almost certain that he cares more about the image of this style than anything else, and thus reinforces my belief that about 99.9% of new styles are neither necessary nor worthwhile.

I'll wait to be proved wrong about all this, and if I am I will issue a full and unconditional apology for my behaviour, but I doubt I'll be taken up on the offer.

[Visage]

I understand, but i never meant to imply it was an X vs Y system. Simply X progresses to Y, and then to Z.

As to getting students to lift their heads to see the top of the mountain as they walk the path... I agree with this. Just dont let them look to high to soon, or they might be blinded by the sun (if you take my metaphorical meaning).

[Taliar]

Surely Kata's should have applications to all levels of student. While the kata's for later students may have easier movements and a basic design, they should be teaching fundamentals that will have more meaning to the advanced student.

Can we after thousands of years of martial art create any new style's. I don't think so. Any new styles are just blends of different style's. IMO.

Martial arts were developed over many years by people who had to rely on these in life or death situations, so I can't see how we can really come up with anything new. I'm sure that the threat of dying by not being any good is more of a motivation to try and adapt, rather than that of losing a sparring bout, which is all most of us will experience.

But thats just my opinion.

[The Walker]

Ryu does mean dragon, at least that's one way to say it. Not sure if ryudo is a proper way to combine the two words or not though. It also means school, as far as I know.

[Visage]

Can we after thousands of years of martial art create any new style's. I don't think so. Any new styles are just blends of different style's. IMO.



Isnt that how a majority of martial arts developed?

[SoKKlab]

Isnt that how a majority of martial arts developed?
Occasionally in 'Ye Olden Days' systems were developed to provide a means of Protecting Oneself, Family, Village, Country etc. Sometimes these systems were developed/ improved upon/ elements discarded/ refined/ added to etc.

Most of said systems had a 'Worldview' and Contained 'Principles' that ran throughout the entire Art, even if they were as simple as Moving Naturally or Not directly Opposing Force with Force etc.

Sometimes said systems became outmoded and/or so specialised they became Museum Pieces and were valued more for their Aesthetic Beauty or Hoplogical Distinction than for their Fighting purpose, due to either bad practice/ bad teaching/ dilution of their original purpose and meaning/ lack of understanding of the original intent etc.

Mostly these days there has been an accleration of that concept, in that a bad copy makes a bad copy makes a bad copy and pretty soon you've got diluted metaphorical nonsense masquerading as Something to do with Self-Protection but that's really Formation Dancing in Pretty Costumes....

Some 'Martial Arts' aren't Martial and have little to offer in terms of meaningful Self-Protection...

Some 'Martial Arts' are only 'Technically' useful in countering practitioners of the same art and not much use for protecting yourself against persons who don't practice your particular art.

Some Martial Arts do contain answers but are taught in such a way that they complicate matters to the point of abstraction.

Some 'Martial Arts' have no answers to Common Assaults, Realistic Situations, etc...

"You Attacked Me Wrong!".

A tad Ironic don't you think???

[ap Oweyn]

Um, say im trying to develop a new kata (or whatever name you want to give it), i start by deciding what level it is. Is it a beginners kata, aimed at gaining a firm understanding of basic techniques? Or is it a more advanced sequence, focusing on movement and transition?
Once i've decided on this, i work out which techniques are going to apply to the level of the kata. For example, its not a bright idea to have a reverse turn hook kick in a beginners kata. Once i have a list of moves that will be covered, i work out a pattern in which each technique will be performed with both arms or legs. Usually working with the traditional "H" pattern.

Excellent. As you've probably gathered, I'm not a big advocate of forms. (Or rather, I don't use them in training myself. I've got no issue with others using them.) But if I were, I think I'd follow your methodology closely.

As for drills, unless i were to start teaching as a proffesion, i don't have many planned drills. I focus a lot on blocking before teaching offense. So, plenty of good ol' "in the air" movement practice.
Something i found effective for helping increase blocking reflex.

I think I came from a fairly "drill intensive" background (eskrima and JKD). So I have a lot more of those at my disposal than forms at this point.

RULE: If it stops an attack and doesnt do you major harm (ie, any more than a bruise on the arm or such), then consider it a block.

Sensible rule, in my opinion.

Taking a pair of focus mitts, have your student stand in front of you in a fighting stance (take this to mean whatever the practitioner feels comfortable in). With the focus mitts on your hands, make attacking swings (not hard), and simply get your student to block the mitts before they land a strike. As your student gets more skilled at blocking, increase the speed of the attacks and the direction the attacks come from.

This is the main "drill" i use at the moment. Its quite affective too :D

Yeah, I'm a big fan of that one myself.

Cheers James.


Stuart

[ap Oweyn]

Technically, the true Japanese for dragon is ryuu, but I believe that when it is joined with another kanji or hiragana, the last -u gets lopped off.

Well, having never gotten past basic Japanese, I've learned something this morning. Great.

I have never documented the style through the medium of video, but I might do at some point.

I'd advise it, if you're interested in promoting your art to people on forums and such. As you've seen, people here listen to claims day in and day out. And it's very easy to get cynical. It's all talk. Anyone of us can type anything. But seeing someone actually move is very telling.

Just a thought.

My sparring routine is minimal or no padding and semi contact all over. I don't do tournaments anymore, this is just how I and my partner (not life..., martial) train on a day to day basis.

I'm not advocating tournaments really. But I think sparring is a must.


Stuart

[Matt_Bernius]

Gal darn it SoKKlab, you always get to these first. And with far more sarcasm.

Again, when an art focus on it's techniques rather than it's strategies and doctrines, it immediately begins to stagnate. When it ceases testing itself against others outside of its system it further stagnates.

Any attempt to prevent change means that your art has crossed over from being a living, evolving entity and has move to the museum category. And that's fine. Just don't sell it as a self defense tool in your advertising.

James, I had ment to mention the Rochester/Rochester connection! Cheers!

- Matt

[alex_000]

There is nothing wrong with the styles there are today. The problem is the way most of them are taught.

[Visage]

I dont think anyone said there was anything wrong with the styles currently available.

[alex_000]

neither did I :D

[Rojininstructor]

No offence Aegis but you don't know this guy. There are many people who have achieved much by 19. There is far too much dogma in MA and if his style works it will flourish, if not, it will die out like many others but aleast give him credit for trying. Evolution requires experimentation.

Good Luck Zhong Keui, find your own road and walk it lad. Remember failure can teach you as much as success.

The Bear.
Well said.

[Aegis]

The fact is that evolution also requires some form of trial by fire for natural selection. If we just patted everyone who created a new style on the back and told them "well done, aren't you clever" the world would be even more innundated with new (and most likely watered down) martial arts. I think that's the last thing we need. Most people who create their own style before even hitting their 20s are barely at the point where they could be considered a teacher in one art, let alone enough of a martial artist to blend several styles together.

I may be a skeptic, but I personally feel that a little more skepticism in the world would have stopped the need for the word "McDojo"

[SoKKlab]

The fact is that evolution also requires some form of trial by fire for natural selection. If we just patted everyone who created a new style on the back and told them "well done, aren't you clever" the world would be even more innundated with new (and most likely watered down) martial arts. I think that's the last thing we need. Most people who create their own style before even hitting their 20s are barely at the point where they could be considered a teacher in one art, let alone enough of a martial artist to blend several styles together.

I may be a skeptic, but I personally feel that a little more skepticism in the world would have stopped the need for the word "McDojo"
Well said.

[Dojo]

i'm working on my own style right now

i call it shishu do, i think it means poetic way in japanese

it's all about expression with using a japanese katana

i've written down the basic philosophy, the first four forms, basic and intermediate moves, philosophies behind the first two forms, and i'm brainstorming on different sparring rules, ranking systems (although i have one in mind) and just different ways to express yourself, like poetry

i have a few students in it as well

if you interested in hearing anymore about shishu do, PM me with a question of some sort and i'll PM you back


LET ME BE A B..TCH :D
How old are you? For how long have you been training in a REAL style? Why make up another style? and so on.
Making a new style is not as easy as it would appear. You've got to have worked a lot in a style (more would be better), know all the techniques and mechanisms, have enough experience, be quite informed in health problems and so on. And to really have a good reason, not just to award yourself a 10th dan, and be Master of .. style. Is your newlly made style worthy of attention. Is the style really needed? Does it answer to the needs of the martial artists? And who gave you the credit to teach? Don't forget if anything goes wrong with your "students" you're gonna pay. Too much ..


OK. been looking at your profile. You were born in 88. That's TOO YOUNG to even think of it. Get real, go to a decent gym/dojo/dojang and LEARN. Talk to us in 30 years :D

[Rojininstructor]

What makes a style "real"? Does effectiveness make it real or does having someone else tell you its real make it real? Does it need to be around for 1000 years? Do you need to pay 1000's of dollars? Does a uniform make it real? Does the name make it real?

In the end "Real" is a matter of opinion and w/ something as subjective as Martial Art (mainly the art part) real can never be established.

What does matter is if what you parctice is able to give you the things you need it to. These needs vary from person to person. All arts are "real", at least as real as the persons practicing it. Every art is practice for different reasons by different people.....the realizim comes in only when the artist feels it has based on thier own experience. For a very small group following thier own path is the only real thing they know. These people should be supported simply because none of us know what may result from thier actions. Let them at least try, what do you have to lose.....they are taking the risk, not you. They may be able to help us all by boldly going where few dare.

People are indeed going to abuse the concept of creating something new in order to gain. Thats nothing new. yet, this is not a reason to harden our minds and hearts. Every so often something useful is born.

Everyone who has ever tried to create has caught flack for it.....some have died for it. Walking your own path is a frightening and challenging thing....you will be doubted and in somecases you will be hated. For those that choose to proceed anyway you must not fear your fellow man....they know not what they do, only what they are told.

[Matt_Bernius]

What makes a martial system real is that it has:

1. Doctrine
2. Strategy
3. Techniques

and most importantly can operate successfully within those three categories to help the people who practice it survive in the conflict and combat it was designed for.

If it fails on any one of those then it isn't a martial system. It may be a philosophy but it isn't physical. Or it may be reactions without a binding philosophy. Or it might just be interpretive dance.

But to be a martial system you need all of the above.

- Matt

[Knight_Errant]

Guys, before making threads like this bear in mind that certain titles have the same effect on me as holding up a crucifix does to a vampire.

[Aegis]

What they scare you and rob you of your power? Surely that's a good thing?

[Visage]

Guys, before making threads like this bear in mind that certain titles have the same effect on me as holding up a crucifix does to a vampire.


(Goes away and starts posting more similar threads...)

[ap Oweyn]

Guys, before making threads like this bear in mind that certain titles have the same effect on me as holding up a crucifix does to a vampire.

Crucifixes repel vampires. And yet here you are. :)

Are you sure you don't mean "same effect as an exposed neck vein"?

[Knight_Errant]

I'm a house troll, it's what I do :D

[Tika]

*tackles KE*...

I thought you were getting better!! Whats happening!!

[Visage]

Seriously though, anyone who has a legitimate reason to create a new style should be able to provide so much more information in a single post than we've managed to glean from an entire thread's worth of posts. The fact that he chose to answer a question about the name of his style rather than any number of technical queries raised by myself and others makes me almost certain that he cares more about the image of this style than anything else, and thus reinforces my belief that about 99.9% of new styles are neither necessary nor worthwhile.

I'll wait to be proved wrong about all this, and if I am I will issue a full and unconditional apology for my behaviour, but I doubt I'll be taken up on the offer.

I cant answer for Zhong Kuei, but i'll try and give as much of the information as I can for my own style.

Previous Experience:
11 Years Chikarakai Karate-Do,7 years Kenshukai Karate-Do, 5 years Golden Phoenix TaeKwonDo, 3 years Wing Chun, 1 year Boxing, 3 years Budokai JuJitsu, 3 years Phoenix Kung Fu and 2 years Choi Kwang Do

Doctrine:
The over all goal of TeJitsuDo is to use the least amount of energy required in any given situation, and to draw on your opponents energy to do this. IE, you use a little energy to redirect your opponents greater energy back at him.

Techniques:
TeJitsuDo is very much a countering and footwork style. Counter your opponents attacks, using his energy as your own by means of circular motion. Using footwork to get to your opponents blind spots and weak spots.
When attacking, direct snappy techniques are used. Work on the weak spots of the body, knees, groin, kidneys, solar plexus etc to negate your opponents hostility as quickly as possible.

Development:
I didnt actually set out to develop a new style. I was training in 8 different Martial Arts at once, and techniques would keep overlapping. I would start using the sweeping circular motions of my Kung Fu in my Karate class, I would use throws and joint manipulation in Tae Kwon Do. It got to the point, where my instructors were saying that they could barely recognise what I was doing as any single art. Thats how TeJitsuDo started.

Why?:
As I stated, I didnt set out to develop this style. For many other people, this style may not be nessecary. But for me, it is worthwhile. Its a style that I feel comfortable in. It encompasses my knowledge from all the different Martial Arts I study. And maybe, it might be useful to others in the future. As of yet, however, I have no plans to go into teaching as a proffesion.

If you have any other questions, I will be pleased to try and answer them. :)

James

EDIT:
Techniques:
When attacking, direct snappy techniques are used. Work on the weak spots of the body, knees, groin, kidneys, solar plexus etc to negate your opponents hostility as quickly as possible.

Stratergy:
TeJitsuDo is very much a countering and footwork style. Counter your opponents attacks, using his energy as your own by means of circular motion. Using footwork to get to your opponents blind spots and weak spots.

[Matt_Bernius]

James,

Interesting stuff. I think you described your strategies as techniques. I'm going to think about what you wrote and get back to you on things.

- Matt

[d33pthought]

For anyone setting out to create their own style, it's really important to remember that you have to be good at whatever you come up with before you can even dream of people joining in. Getting an idea for a style's great, but you're pretty much gonna have to take various martial arts for years before you can expect to be good at your own.

[Visage]

James,

I think you described your strategies as techniques.
- Matt

I did, yes. My appologies, thanks for pointing that out. See EDIT.

James