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Korpy
16-Jun-2005, 12:06 AM
Can anyone tell ne the differences between the Korean Hapkido and the Japanese Aikido?

AZeitung
16-Jun-2005, 01:49 AM
The philosophy of Aikido isn't really there in Hapkido.
Hapkido uses a lot of strikes and spinning kicks.
Hapkido generally trains weapons.
You'll probably see some slight differences in the techniques they share, and some techniques in Hapkido probably aren't in Aikido, and vice versa.

Although I don't do Hapkido, Kuk Sool Won is basically the same thing, but with forms, and some minor differences. I've only taken one Aikido class in my life, though, so I don't know a huge amount about it.

JimH
16-Jun-2005, 02:33 AM
This is not so straight forward a question,as it depends on several factors:
Who do you consider the founder of Hapkido,(Choi or Ji Han Jae)
and
What style of Aikido

If we consider Choi the founder,then His art of aiki jitsu (Yawara ,Hapkido...) is similar to Ueshiba's aikijutsu,although Ueshiba did add the spirituality aspect when he created Aikido and the the training became more compliant and friendly.

If we consider Jae as the founder,then we have similar basic techniques,but Jae has more kicks and his art is different from aikido in that there are more strikes,and kicks (more aggression).

In speaking of aikido we also have many varieties that are more similar to Hapkido than to Ueshiba's Aikido (examples would be Tomiki and Tenshin-Seagals Aikido)

If we speak in general,the core art is the same for both arts(Daito Ryu Aiki Jitsu).
The Koreans wanted to be different from their Japanese counterparts so they added the kicks from Tae Kyon.
Ueshiba wanted to be less Martial/military and he added spirituality , compliance and agreed friendship in training rather than aggressive training.

The Aikidoists also wear Hakama that hides the position of the feet which is an indicator of technique and intent,the Korean hapkidoist wanted the foot work exposed.

The aikidoist trained in sword ,which was fundamental in teaching how to move off line,close the gap,capture the hands as well as strengthen the grip and wrist.

Since swords were outlawed in Korea this aspect was left off Hapkido training.
(today the sword has been reintroduced in many schools as has the wooden training swords)

mike-IHF
16-Jun-2005, 02:19 PM
Corpy,

That's a good question, and I think JimH pretty much answered it in detail. However in my own training I have to disagree with Jim on some points. The Tae Kyon kicks that were added to Choi's art, has nothing to do with Koreans wanting to be different from the Japanese. They were added because you need to learn how to defend against how people attack in your culture. Since Koreans like to use kicking, the kicks were added to learn how to defend against them. They were not added for offensive purposes, although they can be use as such. The original purpose of the kicks were for kick defense.

What you said about Korean Hapkidoist not wearing the Hakama because they wanted their feet to be exposed is not true. There is two reasons why most Hapkido schools don't wear them. One is because the Hakama was never a Korean piece of clothing like it was in Japan. Traditional Korean attire is actually kind of like the Kuk Sul Won uniforms, (can't remember the name off hand) but The Hakama was never a big part of Korean culture.

The second reason, is because it was really never introduced by Choi in the first place. Choi hardly ever wore a uniform while teaching, mostly he just wore Dobok pants, and a tank top. There are schools that where the Hakama. Our school for one, and I know some schools wear them when doing sword techniques like the Jung Ki Kwan. So it has nothing to do with Koreans wanting to expose their foot movement.

Lastly, Their are many schools that teach sword, we do. But this is what alot of people don't understand. All Hapkido open hand techniques come from the sword and staff, or traditionally the spear. like in Shio Nage, Kote Gaeshi, etc. these open hand techniques came from sword cuts. So training with the sword only betters the understanding of the open hand techniques.

Thomas
16-Jun-2005, 02:24 PM
Nice posts so far... and it really shows that depending on the (Grand)masters who devloped their different expressions of Hapkido, some may or may not have a closer relationship to Aikido. If you look at GM Myung Jae Nam, he relished the exchange of ideas and concepts between Hapkido and Aikido. Here are some cool inks to take a look at for this expression of Hapkido:
http://www.ushankido.org/index.php?mode=info&Page=611
http://www.ushankido.org/index.php?mode=info&Page=293
links: http://www.ushankido.org/index.php?mode=info&Page=45

Explore this site… there are some cool videos in there
http://www.hapkido.or.kr/

zac_duncan
16-Jun-2005, 02:34 PM
Like everyone else has sad it depends on the flavor of the hapkido or the aikido. For example, when looking at the videos on aikidojournal, I notice that the most of the footwork in aikido is quite different from the foorwork I've been taught. However, in looking at the videos of Shoji Nishio, I see footwork very much like what I've been taught.


Also, JimH, great post, but FYI - Ji Han Jae's surname is Ji, not Jae. Jae is, in essence the second part of his first name.


Cheers!

aiki-jo
16-Jun-2005, 04:33 PM
Hapkido incorporates more striking than Aikido does. In fact, some Aikido styles, there is no striking. Although from what I've seen, there is more weapons training in Aikido than Hapkido. Also, from what I've seen from certain styles of Hapkido, there is no Aiki in Hapkido. The particular styles that I've trained with, showed great jujitsu without the Aiki.

Disciple
16-Jun-2005, 06:35 PM
The a large difference I have noted in Hapkido and Aikido is their philosphy. Aikido is Arrest through Neutralization where Hapkido is Submission Arrest through Pain.

zac_duncan
16-Jun-2005, 07:35 PM
The a large difference I have noted in Hapkido and Aikido is their philosphy. Aikido is Arrest through Neutralization where Hapkido is Submission Arrest through Pain.

I'm not sure I agree with this.... In fact, I'm pretty sure I don't agree with this. :)

I've been taught that you can't rely on pain compliance to "arrest" an opponent. There are too many factors that affect an individual's pain tolerance to count on pain as a primary factor defeating them. You need to use off-balancing and damaging anatomical weak points to take the opponent down.


As far as how I see the differences, I think aikido often seems to use bigger circles and doesn't seem to or attack the opponent's joint with as much vigor.

Also, Aikido doesn't kick. Most, though not all, HKD schools do.

JimH
16-Jun-2005, 08:32 PM
Choi had 9 kicks,none above the waist,Ji Han Jae introduced the other kicks from Tae Kyon to add the Korean influence.
Choi had the 9 kicks to work defenses against the kick.
Daito Ryu Had defenses against kicks,remember Tae kwon do is a Korean version of Japanese linear arts like shotokan,so kicking was not just a korean thing.

I noted the hakama because it makes a difference from Hapkido,which is what the original question was.

Agreed the Hakama is a Traditional Japanese dress,but with the Japanese influence it was in Korean culture as well,but because the Koreans threw the Higher kicks and had a wide variety of kicks the Hakama was not worn by them,to show the foot work and the kicks,(but it was worn by Choi)

Today the Hakama is seen in Many Hapkido schools,why,if not to be closer to its roots?
There are also alot of crossed trained Hapkidoists that have training in aikido,thus the reinfluence and reintroduction of the hakama and the Sword work to Hapkido.

Agreed Hapkido comes from the empty hand techniques of Daito Ryu aiki Jitsu against the sword,but the Koreans were banned from using the sword, or wooden replica swords, during hapkido's foundation, the sword and sword work were not reintroduced into Korea arts like hapkido,gumdo,Kumdo till much later.
(mostly from Koreans returning to Korea from Japan after the occupation and bringing a flow of Japanese arts with them)

Was not Chois first student(Suh Bok Sup) a practioner of Judo and is this not why Hapkido has alot of defenses against the grabs to prevent the throws of Judo?

We also must remember that the short stick and the walking stick (cane) were part of Japanese Daito Ryu as a defensive weapon against the sword,that is why it was in hapkido,even when no Koreans had swords.

The Koreans wanted to be different,that is why the Shotokan art became Tae Kwon Do with Higher kicks.
That is Why Hapkido introduced the wide variety of Kicks,not just to train against them but to be different than Daito Ryu Aiki Jitsu.
That is why the Korean Sword arts are not as concise as the Japanaese,the Japanese art is one or two cuts and Blade is put away the Korean art has added alot more jumping and spinning technique,to be different from the Japanese.

My information comes from conversations with Chin Il Chang an original and one of the Senior most students of Choi and proclaimed to be the successor to Choi by Choi's wishes.

As with all the history of Hapkido,we know what the founder or head of our branch tell us and the more you talk to the first generation students the more you see everyone has a different version of what it was,who termed it and what it became.

To stay within the original question:
Though there are differences between Aikido and Hapkido the Roots are the same.

American HKD
16-Jun-2005, 10:42 PM
Choi had 9 kicks,none above the waist,Ji Han Jae introduced the other kicks from Tae Kyon to add the Korean influence.
Choi had the 9 kicks to work defenses against the kick.

Choi's kicks being all low has little kick defense training compared to Ji's line which has dozens kick defenses. There's only a few things you can do with low kicks, by mid and high kicks are quite easy to defend against when trained.

Daito Ryu Had defenses against kicks,remember Tae kwon do is a Korean version of Japanese linear arts like shotokan,so kicking was not just a korean thing.

I noted the hakama because it makes a difference from Hapkido,which is what the original question was.

Agreed the Hakama is a Traditional Japanese dress,but with the Japanese influence it was in Korean culture as well,but because the Koreans threw the Higher kicks and had a wide variety of kicks the Hakama was not worn by them,to show the foot work and the kicks,(but it was worn by Choi)

Today the Hakama is seen in Many Hapkido schools,why,if not to be closer to its roots?
There are also alot of crossed trained Hapkidoists that have training in aikido,thus the reinfluence and reintroduction of the hakama and the Sword work to Hapkido.

Pure Hapkioin doesn't wear the hakama, only the styles who borrowed from Aikido's influence like Myung Jae Nam, also I never heard of Choi wearing a Hakama where did you hear that? Are there any pictures to support that statement?

Agreed Hapkido comes from the empty hand techniques of Daito Ryu aiki Jitsu against the sword,but the Koreans were banned from using the sword, or wooden replica swords, during hapkido's foundation, the sword and sword work were not reintroduced into Korea arts like hapkido,gumdo,Kumdo till much later.
(mostly from Koreans returning to Korea from Japan after the occupation and bringing a flow of Japanese arts with them)

Was not Chois first student(Suh Bok Sup) a practioner of Judo and is this not why Hapkido has alot of defenses against the grabs to prevent the throws of Judo?

The throw defenses go back to Japan and are were not developed just because of (Suh Bok Sup) knew Judo. Daito Ryu also had to defend against other styles of JJJ that used throws for centuries.

We also must remember that the short stick and the walking stick (cane) were part of Japanese Daito Ryu as a defensive weapon against the sword,that is why it was in hapkido,even when no Koreans had swords.

The Koreans wanted to be different,that is why the Shotokan art became Tae Kwon Do with Higher kicks.
That is Why Hapkido introduced the wide variety of Kicks,not just to train against them but to be different than Daito Ryu Aiki Jitsu.

Again to clarifiy, Ji Han Jae introduced kicks because he felt the Yawara hand techs. he learned from Choi lacked complete balance, not to be different from the Japanese. Choi never denied Japanese origin of HKD, but some later masters (not Ji) tried to Koreanize HKD like In Sun Seo, Hwang Sik Myung, Joo Band Lee, etc.

As you said, In fact very few Koreans ever trained in any Japanese MA during the Japanese occupation of Korea. It was'nt until many years after WWII when trade and borders began to relax that exchanges began in MA with Koreans and Ji's style was basically fixed by then. My source is Ji Han Jae himself.

That is why the Korean Sword arts are not as concise as the Japanaese,the Japanese art is one or two cuts and Blade is put away the Korean art has added alot more jumping and spinning technique,to be different from the Japanese.

My information comes from conversations with Chin Il Chang an original and one of the Senior most students of Choi and proclaimed to be the successor to Choi by Choi's wishes.

As with all the history of Hapkido,we know what the founder or head of our branch tell us and the more you talk to the first generation students the more you see everyone has a different version of what it was,who termed it and what it became.

To stay within the original question:
Though there are differences between Aikido and Hapkido the Roots are the same.


HKD & AKD share some roots but Choi's and Ji's HKD is way different, HKD more Jujutsu like with real life application.

Aikido is practically useless except for maybe Yoshinkan style which has much more practicle elements to it. Sorry guys AKD very limited in real self defense and mainly an artsy fartsy system.

Now you can all freak out on me! Please one at a time. :rolleyes:

mike-IHF
17-Jun-2005, 02:36 AM
I noted the hakama because it makes a difference from Hapkido,which is what the original question was.

the Hakama has nothing to do with technique. Do you believe that if one Hapkido person is wearing it, and the other is not that one of them is going to have better technique?


We also must remember that the short stick and the walking stick (cane) were part of Japanese Daito Ryu as a defensive weapon against the sword,that is why it was in hapkido,even when no Koreans had swords.

actually the short stick (don bong) came from the sword itself. It is the same as the handle of the sword, just without the sword part. Why do you think the short stick, and handle of a Katana are the same length. This is why we don't use the short stick, we use the handle of the sword.

American HKD
17-Jun-2005, 10:24 AM
Corpy,

That's a good question, and I think JimH pretty much answered it in detail. However in my own training I have to disagree with Jim on some points. The Tae Kyon kicks that were added to Choi's art, has nothing to do with Koreans wanting to be different from the Japanese. They were added because you need to learn how to defend against how people attack in your culture. Since Koreans like to use kicking, the kicks were added to learn how to defend against them. They were not added for offensive purposes, although they can be use as such. The original purpose of the kicks were for kick defense.


I agree with you here

What you said about Korean Hapkidoist not wearing the Hakama because they wanted their feet to be exposed is not true. There is two reasons why most Hapkido schools don't wear them. One is because the Hakama was never a Korean piece of clothing like it was in Japan. Traditional Korean attire is actually kind of like the Kuk Sul Won uniforms, (can't remember the name off hand) but The Hakama was never a big part of Korean culture.

The second reason, is because it was really never introduced by Choi in the first place. Choi hardly ever wore a uniform while teaching, mostly he just wore Dobok pants, and a tank top. There are schools that where the Hakama. Our school for one, and I know some schools wear them when doing sword techniques like the Jung Ki Kwan. So it has nothing to do with Koreans wanting to expose their foot movement.

Lastly, Their are many schools that teach sword, we do. But this is what alot of people don't understand. All Hapkido open hand techniques come from the sword and staff, or traditionally the spear. like in Shio Nage, Kote Gaeshi, etc. these open hand techniques came from sword cuts. So training with the sword only betters the understanding of the open hand techniques.

As far as I know, Choi never taught sword. Ji han Jae and my 1st teacher from the KHF all never knew that much sword. I believe the sword you practice comes rfrom Aiki-Sword of Aikido given your teacher realtion to Aikido and Myung Jae Nam, and Jung Ki kwan is a Japanese sword style as well. My point is they never came from Choi what so ever.


Wearing a Hakama doesn't mean BAD HKD, it does however strongly suggest the style may have other influences, from AKD, JJJ, or some Japanese sword sytle.

mike-IHF
17-Jun-2005, 02:28 PM
Stuart,

As far as I know, Choi never taught sword. Ji han Jae and my 1st teacher from the KHF all never knew that much sword. I believe the sword you practice comes rfrom Aiki-Sword of Aikido given your teacher realtion to Aikido and Myung Jae Nam, and Jung Ki kwan is a Japanese sword style as well. My point is they never came from Choi what so ever.
[QUOTE]

I agree to a certain point. I'm not saying that Choi taught sword. But like I said before the open hand techniques came from the sword, so even if he did not actually have a sword in his hands, the techniques remain the same. One of the things we are taught when using the sword is not to think about the sword at all, just move like you would if the sword is not there. However with that said, alot of people say that Choi taught such and such weapons, and not others. And some say the complete opposite. I don't think anyone knows for sure what weapons he taught. Some people connect the american curved cane with Choi, which to me is rediculous. If Choi did study under Takeda, most likely would have been taught the traditional asian cane (just a straight walking stick) which from what I understand Takeda carried a walking stick around with him. I believe that the curved cane came from Ji, or someone else, yet some people portrait it as being a taught weapon from Choi.

No offense to you, but I just get sick of the Hakama discussion. All it is is a article of clothing, nothing more. It does not reflect the training or techniques recieved. Yes, I understand that it might mean some Japanese influence. But I think that that is pretty much a given, considering the occupation. Myung Jae-Nam himself said that Aikido was already a prominant art in Korea in the late 50's, early 60's. So I do think that there is a bigger connection to the Japanese roots than some want to agree with. I know of certain well known GM's that still to this day dispise anything Japanese. To me that is just ignorance on their part. Choi made no disagreements about what he taught was a Japanese art. So with that said, I believe the Hakama just shows respect to the origins. Just my opinion.

Wolf
17-Jun-2005, 02:58 PM
actually the short stick (don bong) came from the sword itself. It is the same as the handle of the sword, just without the sword part. Why do you think the short stick, and handle of a Katana are the same length. This is why we don't use the short stick, we use the handle of the sword.

We're actually taught that the Dahn Bong comes from different roots. We're taught that it comes from traditional buddhist arts. Supposedly the buddhist monks in their travels through korea would sometimes use their wooden/bamboo flutes as weapons for self defense. That's just another perspective. I'm not saying it's 100% accurate, it's just what we're taught.

mike-IHF
17-Jun-2005, 03:07 PM
KSWPaul,

I have also heard that same variation of the story of the short stick. However my belief is that that story came about when everyone else was trying to say that such and such material came from Bhuddist monks. I call it the (monk bandwagon theory). To this day some Hapkido schools say that Hapkido came from the Korean monks, when infact everyone knows thats not true. But just my opinion.

iron_ox
17-Jun-2005, 03:42 PM
Hello all,

For a list of the weapons that were taught by Dojunim Choi, please refer to the list on page 38 in the May 2005 Issue of TaeKwondo Times from Grandmaster Lim, Hyun Soo; Dojunim Choi's longest training student.

mike-IHF
17-Jun-2005, 03:48 PM
No Comment

American HKD
17-Jun-2005, 07:41 PM
Hello all,

For a list of the weapons that were taught by Dojunim Choi, please refer to the list on page 38 in the May 2005 Issue of TaeKwondo Times from Grandmaster Lim, Hyun Soo; Dojunim Choi's longest training student.


Hi Kevin,

If Choi taught sword it was little to nothing, Ji does'nt claim any high level knowledge from Choi and I would guess the same from GM Lim just because he mastered and promotes a Japanese sword style in favor of any sword style of Choi taught him.

In fact having learned sword from Ji I can tell you it's a simple but usefull set of basics as Doju Ji puts it the rest is free style for each person to develope on your own.

IMO sword is an out dated weapon in our day and age no one carries one, I much perfer staffs of all sizes as one of the best modern universal weapons.

I have seen some great drills comming from Aikido sword tech. that seems very good.

JimH
17-Jun-2005, 07:56 PM
As I said in my first post in this thread,the Facts of Who,what,when ,where of Hapkido depends on the lineage you follow:
those who studied and remained under Choi
or
those who follow the teachings and line of Ji Han Jae.

Everyone has a different version of the history of Hapkido,and each seems to have had input in the changes to the techniques and Name ,hapkido.

Even articles by Choi himself differ as to all aspects of training and who came up with the name/term Hapkido.
(Choi says he used the name prior to Ji Han Jae even being a student)

It is funny that an art that is around 60 years old has so much controversy and many First generation students who are around all have different stories.

Imagine what the truth is of the other arts that are hundreds of years old or older,lol.

We should stop fighting over what is or is not what we were told the exact truth is and carry on in the art we decided to become proficient in,because if Choi says different than Ji Han Jae and he says different than Chin il chang and He says different from,Myung and he says different from Lim and they were all there ,who are we to try to straighten something out that we have no first hand knowledge of.

MattR
17-Jun-2005, 08:03 PM
Choi had 9 kicks,none above the waist

Choi had the 9 kicks to work defenses against the kick.

Very interesting thread. Would you, please, list the 9 kicks you refer to? Thanks for you consideration.

Regards,

Matthew

American HKD
17-Jun-2005, 08:28 PM
As I said in my first post in this thread,the Facts of Who,what,when ,where of Hapkido depends on the lineage you follow:
those who studied and remained under Choi
or
those who follow the teachings and line of Ji Han Jae.

Everyone has a different version of the history of Hapkido,and each seems to have had input in the changes to the techniques and Name ,hapkido.

Even articles by Choi himself differ as to all aspects of training and who came up with the name/term Hapkido.
(Choi says he used the name prior to Ji Han Jae even being a student)

It is funny that an art that is around 60 years old has so much controversy and many First generation students who are around all have different stories.

Imagine what the truth is of the other arts that are hundreds of years old or older,lol.

We should stop fighting over what is or is not what we were told the exact truth is and carry on in the art we decided to become proficient in,because if Choi says different than Ji Han Jae and he says different than Chin il chang and He says different from,Myung and he says different from Lim and they were all there ,who are we to try to straighten something out that we have no first hand knowledge of.


Dear Jim

Yout statement is just political correctness. It is not up to each persons opinion or take on things, there are facts and there are lies or mis-conceptions. Many people just lie to suit thier agenda.

For example; Joo Bang Lee, In Sun Seo, clearly fabricated history and that's universally known to be lies. Hwang Sik Myung, sayd Choi taught him that's clearly known to be a lie. How many others are doing the same thing?

Ji openly admits to adding kicking, weapons, etc. to Choi's Yawara and calling that compilation HKD. Ji did'nt fabricated history or deny Japanese roots of Choi's art as many do even today.

Ji claims 3 distinct teachers he used to create HKD, he also told me directlty what Choi taught, Choi himself called it only (Yawara) and was basically hand techniques, and a few low kicks.

I will admit I don't know who coined the name HKD first I wasn't there but Doju Ji seems to me as very credable and consistant for the last 45 plus years. That can't be said about most, moreover Doju Ji is at the top of the HKD food chain and Choi's oldest active student he was there before all the others.

Nothing else needs to be said these are true facts not opinions.

nj_howard
17-Jun-2005, 08:33 PM
Matt, check the Jungkikwan website and you'll see pics of the original kicks... there are actually ten pics, but there aren't ten different kicks, just ten applications of a few kicks... go to the English section, then the Hapkido section, and you'll see the pics.

Regards...

http://jungkikwan.com/

American HKD
17-Jun-2005, 09:03 PM
Matt, check the Jungkikwan website and you'll see pics of the original kicks... there are actually ten pics, but there aren't ten different kicks, just ten applications of a few kicks... go to the English section, then the Hapkido section, and you'll see the pics.

Regards...

http://jungkikwan.com/

Greetings

Maybe there's only 4 or 5 separate kicks. That's what Doju Ji said there was only a few kicks he learned from Choi.

Most Japanese JJ systems don't have alot of kicks. Many modern JJJ systems
have a few more kicks borrowed from Karate.

For example Okinawan karate styles have about 10-12 different kicks all low to mid, no high kicks in Karate at all.

Korean & Chinese did use many high kicking tech for 100s of yrs. Some say that Japanese having shorter legs were not phyisically suited for high kicks.

iron_ox
18-Jun-2005, 01:36 PM
moreover Doju Ji is at the top of the HKD food chain and Choi's oldest active student he was there before all the others.


Not to quibble Stu, but I gotta throw this one out, actually, Master Chae, Heung Jun is the oldest consistantly training student - he started before GM Ji in 1949 and continues today at 82 to train 6 days per week in Taegu.

Not picking a fight here Stu. :)

iron_ox
18-Jun-2005, 01:44 PM
Hello all,

Here is the list of 10 original kicks printed in the May 2005 issue of TKD Times, page 32:

1. Kick with arch of the foot to lower ankle or inside of ankle.
2. Front kick with toes to testicle.
3. Reverse/inverted roundhouse kick to groin/testicle.
4. Side outside knife edge of foot to the knee joint,
5. Front inside knife edge of foot to the knee joint.
6. Front kick to jaw/chin.
7. Fanning kick to the thigh/femoral artery area.
8. Kick with heel of foot into spine while spinning/pushing.
9. Low side kick into back/side knee area.
10. Back kick with rear foot to chest.

These are the 10 kicks taught by Dojunim Choi to Grandmaster Lim.

JimH
18-Jun-2005, 05:58 PM
"Hwang Sik Myung, sayd Choi taught him that's clearly known to be a lie."

In a Group photo of Choi and his students,taken in Seoul Korea,GM Hwang Sik Myung is seated in the front row to the left(looking at the photo) of GM Bong Soo Han,GM Han is seated to the left(looking at the photo) of Choi.

I think the picture verifies the claim,No?

American HKD
18-Jun-2005, 11:03 PM
"Hwang Sik Myung, sayd Choi taught him that's clearly known to be a lie."

In a Group photo of Choi and his students,taken in Seoul Korea,GM Hwang Sik Myung is seated in the front row to the left(looking at the photo) of GM Bong Soo Han,GM Han is seated to the left(looking at the photo) of Choi.

I think the picture verifies the claim,No?


1. Myung has no known certifcations from Choi. Maybe he had a few seminars or classes with Choi but Myung teaches Ji's style of HKD not Choi's.

2. Many people take pictures with Doju Ji and only attended ONE seminar the same is most likey true in Myungs case and the others in the picture.
Revisionist history!

3. 20 years latter they say he was my teacher :rolleyes: How can that be?

American HKD
18-Jun-2005, 11:07 PM
Not to quibble Stu, but I gotta throw this one out, actually, Master Chae, Heung Jun is the oldest consistantly training student - he started before GM Ji in 1949 and continues today at 82 to train 6 days per week in Taegu.

Not picking a fight here Stu. :)

I'm not quibling nor do I think you are. There are facts and misconceptions I think its important to clarify between the two.

I never heard of the man you mentioned so I can't comment. He obviously keeps to himself or many would look him up to ask what he saw and knows?

American HKD
19-Jun-2005, 02:01 AM
Hello all,

Here is the list of 10 original kicks printed in the May 2005 issue of TKD Times, page 32:

1. Kick with arch of the foot to lower ankle or inside of ankle.
2. Front kick with toes to testicle.
3. Reverse/inverted roundhouse kick to groin/testicle.
4. Side outside knife edge of foot to the knee joint,
5. Front inside knife edge of foot to the knee joint.
6. Front kick to jaw/chin.
7. Fanning kick to the thigh/femoral artery area.
8. Kick with heel of foot into spine while spinning/pushing.
9. Low side kick into back/side knee area.
10. Back kick with rear foot to chest.

These are the 10 kicks taught by Dojunim Choi to Grandmaster Lim.

Greetings

As Howard said, a side kick is one tech. no matter where you aim it #4 & #9 plus front kick #2 & #6 etc.