which is the most effective style of martial arts?

[boshi]

hi,

i have been going to twae kwan do Club for more than 2 years. but i still couldnt find answer of my question. my question is : which is the most effective style of martial arts?. whether it is karate, judo,twae kwan do , tai chi, thai kick boxing,cooperia, akiado ,kung fu,JKD, ninjutsu or any other.

in my openion . kung fu is the most effective way of self defence. because it has more than 200 styles in its own.

2nd thing. i would love to join ninjutsu school but i couldnt find any school located in glasgow.
if somebody knows any school of ninjutsu in glasgow. plz let me know.
:)


cheers

[waya]

I would never say there is any ONE effective art..... All of them have the potential depending on the person employing it. BJJ may be effective, but for me it would be useless.... So I think the answer is more which is the more effective for you personally. For me it has been Hapkido and Shotokan, I prefer to fight in close but not grapple, and I prefer the more evasive techniques in Hapkido to striking it out with someone.

Rob

[Kat]

The one that lets you walk away from a confrontation alive and well.

;)

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Kung fu doesn't exactly contain 200 styles (I thought it was in the thousands actually) there are that many difference variations of the art.

And I agree with Kat, although I tend to say you should run from a confrontation rather than walk.

[Lindsay]

The most effective martial art is the one that lets you be free and find your own unique and personal style. Bruce Lee was a legend but only because he found his own place and style. We all need to learn that not all people are the same and train that way.

Take and use what what works for you and discard what you find you cannot use.

BUT MOST INMPORTANTLY - HAVE A GOOD ATTITUDE!!!

[Andy Murray]

which is the most effective style of martial arts?.

Is your question related to winning trophies, self defence, spiritual enlightenment or physical well being? The problem is that the Martial Arts mean different things to different people!

As for Ninjutsu in Glasgow, I don't believe there are any organisations teaching in the area, but then, Ninjas probably wouldn't advertise I suppose. I think Glasgow is too wet and windy for Ninjas. they would probably slip or get blown off a roof!

The nice thing about Martial arts Planet is that all the arts are welcome here!

Tell us what you find 'effective' about Tae Kwon Do!

Andy

[boshi]

hi ,

my question is related to SELF-DEFENCE. (street fighting etc.)



cheers

[boshi]

hi,

i found out. there are over 1500 kung fu styles not 200. my mistake. plz accept my apology.


cheers

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Hah! I knew it was in the thousands. ;)

As for self-defense effectiveness the most effective method is to take up sprinting or hide in a metal box.

I can't speak for any other martial art, but after the other night I can vouch for Choi in self-defense situations.

[mmafiter]

Whichever art most interests you will be the most effective for you. The art you choose should have some form of "live" training incorporated into it.

[Darzeka]

Mainly it comes down to the MA. It is how you apply the things you learn not what they teach you.

If you find a martial art that you find fun and the techniques all make sense in your head then it will be much easier for you to perform in the street.

[Freeform]

No such thing as a bad art, otherwise it wouldn't have gotten far. Only bad practitioners.

Thanx

[KarateKid1975]

I totally agree, Free. It's not the Martial Art, it's the person practicing it that makes the art. If you train your a$$ off, and work hard, you'll be a great martial artist. But if you "wing it" in class, you'll suck.

[Sweeet]

I considered this question at length and read alot on it long before I actually got into a dojo. If you're looking for a Martial Art that would be the best for you in terms of self defense - you have to consider your body type, the amount of time you'd be willing to spend on training, which dojo's are close to you, and even how much money you'd be willing to spend on learning it. With all that taken care of, and for my body type (6'2, light) - I thought the best option for me would be Hapkido. Not only because there is a great school that teaches it close, but because it is known as the 'complete art of self defense', and not for no good reason. I think that it is excellent because at one point or another it covers prettymuch all ranges - some groundwork included. It also shows you some techniques that may be more practical for modern times. For example - it teaches you throws, joint locks, pressure points, and other non-destructive ways of dealing with strikes, as opposed to just blocking strikes and kicking off the guys knee cap or breaking his nose as you would in other arts. Much better if you would ever end up in court. (Hey, did you hear about the robber that fell through a guy's skylight and sued him for the broken leg... and won?) Not that I think that Hapkido is the end all of self defense, or that it would be just as good for other types of people. But, because I mix it with other arts that encompass other aspects of fighting, and because I train so that it would be effective on the street, I think it will work for me. Then again, real self defense is 95% avoidance and 5% fighting skill, as Andy Murray said, so you may be better just training for marathons and then you can outrun your opponents easily. :)

Sweeet.

[pgm316]

I've studied a few arts over the years. Studying more than one style gives you a good arsenal of weapons. However I did find Kung Fu to be the more effective for street fighting situations. At least the few Kung Fu styles we study. Much credit has to go to the club for being very good, I believe that can be more important than the art you study.

[stump]

Have to agree with all above, at the end of the day there's more similarities between styles than differences. The real variation lies in the quality of instruction and training practises in your group.

[myusername]

I trained taekwondo for 5 years (i loved its kicking but i stopped coz i realized that we were training just for competitions , and there were no real hand tehniques in it) , trained jeet kune do for 1 month (liked it a bit) , saw hapkido , grappling , judo , karate , muay thai , kickboxing and ninjitsu (bujinkan)..... but everyone says that the best is ....... (the art they train). But the truth is : finding a good teacher / the right art / and wanting to learn : IN MY OPINION the best martial art is Wing Chun ( i suggest traditional wing chun) because:
its the no1 for street fighting and real combat ..... its an art with roots in china 300 yrs... ITS WARM UP/STRETHCING is H.A.R.D and i guarantee you great results..... also is the best for self defebse ( traditional wing chun study all ranges ) striking , sticking hands , joint locks , throws , kicks (better than those in tkd i could say) , knees , arms etc... you ll like it... If you wanna see ( try it 1-2 months) .... visit various schools and you ll understand wich school is the best..... by the last 2 months i was searching for the same thing.... i tried jeet kune do ( i liked it as art but the teacher wasn't that good) , when i first visited this traditional wing chun school i was VERY IMPRESSED.....you 'll like it ;) (but don't forget this ) >>>>>>> ASK QUESTIONS AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND IF THE TEACHER IS A RIPPER :)))) and about bujinkan -i never tried it but i know that wing chun is the best for street self defense, making strong spirit and body ,etc... try to search for someone in the world wing chun kungfu association - and CERTIFIED ..... :))) good luck... TRY AND SEE WHAT FITS YOU BETTER - AND WITCH SCHOOL FITS YOU BETTER..... somewhere that you ll be comfortable with... :)

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Oh god. Pass me my asbestos suit please, and the hose as well, I have a feeling we're going to need it.

[wayofthedragon]

Truthfully and honestly.... I don't believe that there is a martialart that can be considered the most effective of all, or more superior than another. In other words, I don't believe there is a martial art that can be considered the "Best". Ofcourse most people may want to argue saying that the stlye they practice is the best. Thats only natural for one to feel that way, but to be truly honest with one's self, one would understand that all styles have something to offer to an indivdual. Be it Karate, or Tae Kwan do, Kung-fu, or Jeet Kune do, Grappling styles, or what ever, They all serve one purpose, and one purpose only. As to which is more effective, well, that is impossible. They are all effective, but they can do nothing unless they have an effective fighter using it effectivly. I believe that it depends on the individual of a particular martial arts to be the best he can be, not for the style to make him invinsible and superior to all other styles. For if one practices Kung-fu, and one practice karate, you can't say kung-fu is better than karate, therefore the the Kung-fu man will win or vice versa. If the Karate man trained harder, and longer each day, and is more dedicated than the Kung-fu fighter. Even if they have the same years of experience, or even if the kung-fu fighter has more years, it means nothing. He still can lose, because the styles weren't fighting each other. The people were fighting eachoter using the styles in the way that it reflected them. That is what it's all about my friend. Man created the stlye, the style did not create man.

[TkdWarrior]

no offence intended...but seriously tell me...
r u good enuff for any art?
if yes then pick up any ...it will work...
if not it doesn'nt matter anyway even if u choose the best u'll be nothing...
remember this...prepare urself for art...
an art is without any boundaries but u r not...
-TkdWarrior-

[pgm316]

Good answer TKDWarrior. But for debates sake I'll awkward!

Martial arts styles have a lot of similarities and techniques that overlap from one style to another. But they are all different and therefore cannot be of equal value. I’d have had different abilities depending on which martial art I’d chosen to do. On the other hand its near impossible to say which is best because they all have strengths and weaknesses which make them suitable for different people. Its true the fighter makes the art, and a good fighter will be just that whatever style they choose to do.

Another important factor in the equation is the club, I believe in many circumstances it can be more important than the style you choose. We’re all somewhat limited by what we can find in are areas. All I’d say is don’t be limited by any one style.

[TkdWarrior]

hi pgm wat u hav said is correct...
equation of club...hmmm i'll agree with u...
u know i was lookin for Tai-chi from last 6 years before starting in MT then changing to TKD
i looked tirelessly and when i went to my TKD teacher i knew he's the one...he's got fearing respect all over the country...faught with the best, trained with best, and he is best...
so i settled for the best... i didn't care to look into stupid KF school(no offence) who wer nuthin but just show off...
and after 6 years i found my Tai-chi teacher so i started with him too...
now i m happy with both arts TKD n Tai-chi...
-TKdWarrior-

[Acekicken]

It Seems To Me This is The Same Question
That started The UFC.
And other competitons like it.
The Only Truth in Combat is Find What works for U.

_________________________-----
I Think Bruce Lee said it best.
When it comes Baby
U better Train Your Hole body.

For me an Opean Mined is the Best Art.

[Acekicken]

When It Comes To Fighting Baby U
Better Trian Your Whole Body.
_____________________--------------
Sorry About the Mistake.

[Morne]

For street Fighting check out www.jkdu.co.za
Remember if you would like to learn how to fight make sure you train against someone who is fighting back. The way you are going to train is the way you are going to re-act in the street.

Enjoy!!

Morné
-------------------------

[Kulak]

Hi, forgive me for I am a newcomer, but I do feel that the age old argument as to which martial art is the best is really irrelevant. I trained in Shotokan for years and it actually saved my hide on more than one occasion. But since then I've trained in Muay Thai, Kickboxing, Wing Chun (just a couple of months though), Eskrima and JKD Concepts. I am now actually a better martial artist since training in Eskrima and JKDC. But I honestly cannot put all of the praise onto these styles, it has more to do with the effort and methods I've been exposed to and put into it.

Just a thought.

K

[Melanie]

Welcome to the forum Kulak :)

You seem to have an open-minded approach to your training. I look forward to hearing more from you.

[Brad Ellin]

Some study karate, some kung fu, some aikido, judo,, etc... There is no one perfect martial art. Heck, there may not even be one that is perfect for you. But that's the joy in the journey. Finding the art that fits you. Whether it's muay thai, hapkido, budo taijutsu, tang soo do or any combination of the any art. It took me a few years of searching to find the art that was "me".
As to finding a school for ninjutsu, try visiting http://www.winjutsu.com and searching the yellow pages. There are quite a few legitimate schools in England, you may just find one worth going to.

[ROBERT]

The best martial art is the one I just developed! It requires NO training, and you can use the techniques immediately. Send me $100.00(special price for you only) and you will become a certified platinum belt in "I'llScamYU-Do".

Remember, how you train is at least as important as what you train.

Robert

[Andrew Green]

The question is just worded wrong. It should be "what are the best training methods." Once you get that all the different styles stop being different.

[TkdWarrior]

there is only one answer "the art of opening can of whoopass" :D

-TkdWarrior-

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Andrew Green
The question is just worded wrong. It should be "what are the best training methods." Once you get that all the different styles stop being different.

Thats very true Andrew! A good MA's will make many styles effective, whereas a bad MA's will make a good style seem useless.

I think one of the "enlightenments" of MA's comes when you stop doing things because your told to and think what techniques are actually doing, then you understand why certain things are more effective.

[DeSeRt RaT UK]

Originally posted by myusername
I trained taekwondo for 5 years (i loved its kicking but i stopped coz i realized that we were training just for competitions , and there were no real hand tehniques in it) , trained jeet kune do for 1 month (liked it a bit) , saw hapkido , grappling , judo , karate , muay thai , kickboxing and ninjitsu (bujinkan)..... but everyone says that the best is ....... (the art they train). But the truth is : finding a good teacher / the right art / and wanting to learn : IN MY OPINION the best martial art is Wing Chun ( i suggest traditional wing chun) because:
its the no1 for street fighting and real combat ..... its an art with roots in china 300 yrs... ITS WARM UP/STRETHCING is H.A.R.D and i guarantee you great results..... also is the best for self defebse ( traditional wing chun study all ranges ) striking , sticking hands , joint locks , throws , kicks (better than those in tkd i could say) , knees , arms etc... you ll like it... If you wanna see ( try it 1-2 months) .... visit various schools and you ll understand wich school is the best..... by the last 2 months i was searching for the same thing.... i tried jeet kune do ( i liked it as art but the teacher wasn't that good) , when i first visited this traditional wing chun school i was VERY IMPRESSED.....you 'll like it ;) (but don't forget this ) >>>>>>> ASK QUESTIONS AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND IF THE TEACHER IS A RIPPER :)))) and about bujinkan -i never tried it but i know that wing chun is the best for street self defense, making strong spirit and body ,etc... try to search for someone in the world wing chun kungfu association - and CERTIFIED ..... :))) good luck... TRY AND SEE WHAT FITS YOU BETTER - AND WITCH SCHOOL FITS YOU BETTER..... somewhere that you ll be comfortable with... :)

Sorry but I don't think Wing Chun would be able to hold it's ground in something like a K1 or UFC fight. I think I read that in the first UFC a wing chun guy got whooped by a wrestler.

[pgm316]

In the early UFC tournaments everyone got whooped by a wrestler. Apart from the mixed MA's that whooped everyone :p

UFC was biased towards grapplers in many ways, it did prove you needed to be a good alround fighter.

Still, in a street situation I'd rather be a WC fighter than a wrestler!

[TkdWarrior]

pgm gotta point... big point
-TkdWarrior-

[Helm]

Yeah the early UFC's had a soft-padded floor that was hard for kickers to get an movement on...

UFC - Big ugly guys hog-tying each other. Damn good to watch, but a good big 'un always beats a good little 'un.

[johndoch]

Quote DesertRatUK:

"Sorry but I don't think Wing Chun would be able to hold it's ground in something like a K1 or UFC fight. I think I read that in the first UFC a wing chun guy got whooped by a wrestler."

UFC & K1 are sports, Wing chun is not. U shouldnt forget that. Take away the rules and its a different story.

[Andrew Green]

Hmmm...

Yes they are sports, but in the beginning there was very few rules in UFC.

I have read in a few different locations that there was a group of Wing Chun fighters that went to thailand to fight a group of thais, they got beat badly.

The excuse was that the gloves made WC less effective, so they did it again no gloves, and got beat worse.

I saw no reason to doubt the truth of this, but no other evidence to support it.

"Take away the rules" is an excuse I just don't buy. The rules protect BOTH people, not just the Wing chun guy.

http://www.bullshido.us/ has a video of emin boztepe attacking William Cheung (two high up WC guys) and the fight quickly ends up with two guys rolling around on the floor not looking at all like they know what they are doing.

Wing Chun uses hand trapping, that is there big thing, and it is something which doesn't work against trained fighters, unless they are trained in wing chun.

"The only time you ever need to do a Wing Chun trap is if you’re fighting a Wing Chun man who happens to occupy center line. Otherwise, the vast majority of the time, one never needs to trap the arms at all. " - Paul Vunak

Grabbing, slapping, jerking hands out of the way can and does work. But Wing Chun, like many other Traditional styles, has taken one concept and stylized and theorized and annalysed it to the point where it is so idealistic it is no longer functional in the format it is practised in.

[pgm316]

I think you'd get the same result sending many martial artists to Thailand. Those people weren't ready to fight, regardless of the style they do.

I believe most styles become too stylised, then concentrate on fighting against only that style.

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Andrew Green
Hmmm...
Grabbing, slapping, jerking hands out of the way can and does work. But Wing Chun, like many other Traditional styles, has taken one concept and stylized and theorized and annalysed it to the point where it is so idealistic it is no longer functional in the format it is practised in.

Isn't this a bit of a generalization AG?
Surely you mean the WC that you have seen?
From my experience WC leaves the individual the choice of how they apply the system.
Isn't that like me saying all Karateka have deep stances and more ego than ability?
OR all TKD people can kick inanimate objects, but little else?

[Andrew Green]

Yes, it is.

The system is based on hand trapping, something which hasen't been shown to work against trained fighters. Applied differently it can.

Same for karate-ka and deep stances with the big egos, as a generalization I would agree that most karate is pretty useless in its practiced form. It can be done in other ways which is effective though. But I guarantee that anyone that went into a fight with hands on hips and a deep front stance wouldn't last very long.

If that is what you spend the majority of your time training to do its not effective for fighting.

Trapping hands is fun and beneficial in some ways, but if it occupies the majority of your training you are not training effectively. Same with deep stances and kicking inanimate objects. It can help with some things, but if it is the focus it is ineffective.

Take basketball, there are all sorts of fancy ball handling routines, between the legs, rolloing accross the shoulder, spinning on the finger, whatever. Doing these is fine and will help your handling skills, but focusing on this will not teach you how to play basketball.

Unfortuanetly it seems many schools spend all their time learning tricks about the game rather then tricks within the game.

[pgm316]

I can't speak for all WC schools, be we only spend a relatively short time trapping. I'm not sure what you think it involves, but it can work against a boxer or kickboxer, which I also do. All depends how you use it. It can be as simple as covering someones guard to pre-empt their punch, giving you a big opening to hit.

Whatever you do, you have to choose whether your going to train it in a realistic way for modern combat or for fun and historical recreation purposes, I think this applies to all styles.

[DeSeRt RaT UK]

Originally posted by Andrew Green
I have read in a few different locations that there was a group of Wing Chun fighters that went to thailand to fight a group of thais, they got beat badly.

The excuse was that the gloves made WC less effective, so they did it again no gloves, and got beat worse.

I saw no reason to doubt the truth of this, but no other evidence to support it.



I watched a program about Thai boxing on one of the discovery channels (I wasn't sure they were it was wing chun style) and they all got knocked out in 20 seconds of the fight starting.

Originally posted by pgm316
I think you'd get the same result sending many martial artists to Thailand. Those people weren't ready to fight, regardless of the style they do.

I believe most styles become too stylised, then concentrate on fighting against only that style.

Seem to remember they were some of the best fighters from China. If they can't win, and they are from the country of origin and practice it as a lifestyle.

[pgm316]

Originally posted by DeSeRt RaT UK


I watched a program about Thai boxing on one of the discovery channels (I wasn't sure they were it was wing chun style) and they all got knocked out in 20 seconds of the fight starting.

Seem to remember they were some of the best fighters from China. If they can't win, and they are from the country of origin and practice it as a lifestyle.

Maybe we should all do Thai boxing! Although I've seen more kickboxers take worse beating than anyone else! By wrestlers! Maybe we should be wrestlers! Noooo I've seen more people wrestling on the floor being knocked out with kicks to the head in pubs than I like to remember!

I've trained WC, kickboxing and Judo. And I'm happy with that combination. I'd rate WC the highest out of the 3, although I will say I've seen many WC people train a useless way, but the same goes for Thai boxing.

Some of the best WC guys in China, I doubt it...........

[DeSeRt RaT UK]

I'm just proving that Wing Chun isn't the most effective martial art, like every other one. Like yourself I mix them - Kali (weapons and panatukan - dirty boxing), kickboxing (kicking and punching) and I'm just starting combat sombo (groundwork).

And yes I would believe that most of the best wing chun fighters would come from China logically. That the place it was founded. If you train youir students everyday, all day conditioning the mind and body in China, rather then someone who goes to an evening sessions in the west. Learning straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Andrew Green referring to Wing Chun
Yes, it is.

The system is based on hand trapping, something which hasen't been shown to work against trained fighters. Applied differently it can.



No it isn't!

[Andrew Green]

ok, I admit that my exposure to wing chun has been limited, but from what I've seen much of the training is in two person drills, focused on controlling the hands and occupying centerline. Keeping constant forward pressure, straight blasting and trapping anything that gets in the way.

Hand trapping is what makes Wing Chun unique, it may be a result of other theories, but that is its main feature. BJJ has the guard, muay thai has its round kicks, etc. There are other aspects but hand trapping is WC's claim to fame.

Granted that is simplistic, but would you say that that is a fairly accurate description of basic Wing chun (as a whole) strategy and theory?

[Andy Murray]

No, I'm afraid it's not!

[Andrew Green]

Then correct me...

[pgm316]

Originally posted by DeSeRt RaT UK
I'm just proving that Wing Chun isn't the most effective martial art, like every other one. Like yourself I mix them - Kali (weapons and panatukan - dirty boxing), kickboxing (kicking and punching) and I'm just starting combat sombo (groundwork).

And yes I would believe that most of the best wing chun fighters would come from China logically. That the place it was founded. If you train youir students everyday, all day conditioning the mind and body in China, rather then someone who goes to an evening sessions in the west. Learning straight from the horses mouth, so to speak.

I don't htink you've proved anything. One group of guys got there asses kicked off another group. All that proves is one group train better than the others, this could be for many reasons.

Football was originated in England, so logically you'd think they'd have the best team also ?

China's never had a good record in NHB fights, strange when you also consider the huge population. I still doubt they sent some of their best WC fighters, you could easily find millions of Chinese claiming to be some of the best WC fighters ;)

[DeSeRt RaT UK]

Originally posted by pgm316
Football was originated in England, so logically you'd think they'd have the best team also ?


Yes but we still have some of the best players in the world.


I still doubt they sent some of their best WC fighters, you could easily find millions of Chinese claiming to be some of the best WC fighters ;)

Out of a matter of pride you would think they would not take any chances and the wing chun organisation (if one exists?) would try and send the best fighters they know.

[pgm316]

Originally posted by DeSeRt RaT UK


Yes but we still have some of the best players in the world.


Some good players, but not superior to the rest of the world, you only have to look at the premier league to see the amount of foreign players. Maybe cricket or tennis would be a better example. It just shows that because a country inventes something doesn't mean it will be the best at them.


Out of a matter of pride you would think they would not take any chances and the wing chun organisation (if one exists?) would try and send the best fighters they know.

I really don't know. However, if the best fighters from China could only last 20 seconds before being knocked out theres something badly wrong. I know your expert opinion is WC is to blame for this loss and the worlds best WC fighters will only last a short time before being knocked out!

I wouldn't blame WC. The blame has to lie with the fighters for being inferior.

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by Andrew Green
The question is just worded wrong. It should be "what are the best training methods." Once you get that all the different styles stop being different.

If the WC, TKD or Karate guys train with the same intensity the Muay Thai figthers do, then they can stand a chance against Muay Thai fighters. UFC, or NHB fighters.

You have seen repeatedly all these martial artists going up against Muay Thai fighters and they were totally defenceless against the MT roundkick to their thighs. A few whacks and they became easy picking from then on.

[Andrew Green]

Now something to consider, if they started training that way would they start looking more and more like Muay thai, or retain their original arts appearance?

Muay Thai fighters fight the way they do because that is the best way to fight under those rules. Get a Traditional stylist to start training under those rules and I'd bet that he'll likely start looking more and more like he is from the style that uses those rules.

[Acekicken]

><><><><><><><><><
:woo:
:woo:
:woo:
:woo:

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by Andrew Green
Now something to consider, if they started training that way would they start looking more and more like Muay thai, or retain their original arts appearance?

Muay Thai fighters fight the way they do because that is the best way to fight under those rules. Get a Traditional stylist to start training under those rules and I'd bet that he'll likely start looking more and more like he is from the style that uses those rules.

It is not as much an issue of rules and styles, rather, it is the intensity of the training and conditioning. Which dictates how hard they can kick and strike, and how much hit they can take.

You have seen repeatedly that TMA guys got taken out, b/c they just couldn't take the hit. It is not like MT has some super duper techniques. They threw a roundhouse and the TMA guys fell on their asses. Why is that? TMA KO TMA guys all the time. Yet, they are outmatched when they go against the MT fighters. Just look at how hard the MT fighters train and you won't be surprised.

[Andy Murray]

Talking about TMA though Phoenix;

I've watched MT guys getting taken out by BJJ, and that's surely a TMA?

[Phoenix]

There are always exception. Not every MT guys are championship materials.

[Andrew Green]

Why can't Muay Thai be a TMA too?

[Andy Murray]

So it's possible there may be exceptions to your earlier generalisation too?

Might just be some TMA guys that can take a hit n give one out?

Didn't Benny the Jet Urquidez take on Thailands best n give em a pounding?

[Andrew Green]

beats me

Words are funny, Muay Thai is generally not considered a TMA, nor is boxing wrestling, and they've been around longer then most TMA...

So by TMA Muay Thai/boxing/wrestling are not usually what is meant, but for some they might be.

I guess the difference is that TMA are more bound by tradition while these are bound by rules.

How many consider Sumo or Judo TMA?

Maybe by TMA most people really mean "It has an Asian name"...?

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
So it's possible there may be exceptions to your earlier generalisation too?

Might just be some TMA guys that can take a hit n give one out?

Didn't Benny the Jet Urquidez take on Thailands best n give em a pounding?

HA! In the late 70's Urquidez took on Prayoud Sittiboonert. Sittiboonlert was not even the current Champion at the time. Still, he beat The Jet so bad, that Urquidez's cornermen threw in the towel in the second round! LOL WKA ruled the fight no contest. Yeah right!! His cornermen threw in the tower after Urquidez got punished so badly. After that, he repeatedly refuses any MT challenge. To this day, The Jet's PR people keep the lie going.

[Andy Murray]

So Benny the Jet's a fraud then?

[Phoenix]

As far as his claim about being undefeated, yes. His other accomplishment was ok.

[Andy Murray]

I didn't know he'd ever claimed to be undefeated, but I guess someone could probably find a cutting written by someone other than Benny to say so.

What other accomplishment?

[Phoenix]

He was a successful Full contact karate champion. You can't take that away from him. :)


Whether Benny himself claimed to be the undefeated world champion or not, his PR people sure have no problem with the ********.

[Andy Murray]

Why would I want to? I wish I'd acheived half as much!

You'll find anyone who is successful, whatever their field, is surrounded by BS, and that detracts nothing from the indidvidual, it just goes with the territory.

[Phoenix]

BS as in they continue to maintain the lie that he was undefeated while he was soundly beaten that he couldn't continue into the third round and he steadfastly refused any MT challenge ever since. It is dishonesty to make such claim.

[Andrew Green]

I guarantee you can find more BS surrounding Bruce Lee then Benny the Jet...

Besides Muay Thai wasn't his game, if that was his only defeat he was undefeated at his game. I don't know anything about his career history so I can't comment on the accuracy of this.

[Phoenix]

The problem was his people did make the BS that no MT guys could beat him.

Yes, JKD people think BL was the greatest MAist of all time. TKD people think Gen Choi was the greatest. Judo people think Kano was the greatest. Kyokushin people think Oyama was the greatest. Shotokan people think Funakoshi was the greatest.

So you just shrug and smile.

[pgm316]

Theres some fantastic generalisations going on :D

MT guys can destroy TMA’s
TMA’s don’t train hard, MT guys do.
TMA’s obviously don’t know what a low roundhouse kick is, seeing as any MT person will put em straight on there ass with one.
And Benny the Jet is now a fake because somebody claimed he could do the impossible.

Looks like we’re doing BJJ next week :p

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by pgm316
Theres some fantastic generalisations going on :D

MT guys can destroy TMA’s
TMA’s don’t train hard, MT guys do.
TMA’s obviously don’t know what a low roundhouse kick is, seeing as any MT person will put em straight on there ass with one.
And Benny the Jet is now a fake because somebody claimed he could do the impossible.

Looks like we’re doing BJJ next week :p
Talk is cheap.
You can put your money where your mouth is. At Lumpinee and Ratchadamnoen Stadiums in Bangkok, Thailand, they welcome you to go put your money where your mouth is and prove whatever you cliam. :)

[pgm316]

True talk can be cheap.

Personnaly I don't want to do any more kickboxing, not a competition level at least. But, Benny did enough to prove he put his money where is mouth is. He beat many good fighters and champions. And to be honest, I don't care if he is unbeaten or not or whether these other claims that have been made are.

[Phoenix]

The Jet was good at his prime. But he wasn't undefeated . Correct me if I am wrong. Didn't he try to come out of retirement but got whacked totally? That just mean he was over his prime. He was good at his prime. No one denies that. I only pointed out his shabby record in fighting Muay Thai when someone alleged to the fact that he kicked MT fighters ass.

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Phoenix
I only pointed out his shabby record in fighting Muay Thai when someone alleged to the fact that he kicked MT fighters ass.

What was actually said was;


"Might just be some TMA guys that can take a hit n give one out?
Didn't Benny the Jet Urquidez take on Thailands best n give em a pounding?"

It was one of those subtle little nudges the mods round here give, when members start orating from soap boxes!

[Phoenix]

The point is, The Jet didn't "give em a pounding". On the contrary, he got pounded. :)

[Phoenix]

Here is The Jet's glorious "give em a pounding"

http://members.tripod.com/~crane69/index6d.htm

[Cain]

So according to u muay thai is the 'ultimate' art?

|Cain|

[Phoenix]

There is no such thing as an "ultimate art" . No matter how effective an art is, if you suck, then it won't turn you into a champion. You still suck. :) IT is like asking which gun is the most accurate gun. No. THe question is whether you are a good shooter or not. If you are a marksman, any reasonably good gun will do just fine.

But no one who studiies striking art, should overlook MT.

Most important of all is how intense MT fighters train. If Karate-ka's, TKD people, train as instense, they will do just as well. There are cases of WC people, Kyokushin people who defeated MT fighters. But as a group, MT fighters prevail.

JKD teaches you that no art is useless. Every art has its value. The problem lies in the practitioner's ability to emphasize the strength and compensate for the weakness. MT cut a lot of fluff out and simply train you to take hits and deliver KO hits.

[pgm316]

Well according to that site it is. The site is not very good in my opinion. I have trained in kickboxing and still do occasionally, but that site is very much propoganda. Theres nothing in MT that you can't find in Kung Fu. Its more about preperation and training for that environment.

If they'd fought under a NHB type rules, would we have seen the MT fighters loose. Either way, what does it really prove?

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Phoenix
There is no such thing as an "ultimate art" . No matter how effective an art is, if you suck, then it won't turn you into a champion. You still suck. :) IT is like asking which gun is the most accurate gun. No. THe question is whether you are a good shooter or not. If you are a marksman, any reasonably good gun will do just fine.

But no one who studiies striking art, should overlook MT.

Most important of all is how intense MT fighters train. If Karate-ka's, TKD people, train as instense, they will do just as well. There are cases of WC people, Kyokushin people who defeated MT fighters. But as a group, MT fighters prevail.

JKD teaches you that no art is useless. Every art has its value. The problem lies in the practitioner's ability to emphasize the strength and compensate for the weakness. MT cut a lot of fluff out and simply train you to take hits and deliver KO hits.

I agree with you for once :D

But seriously, what you say is very true there!

[Cain]

Ya that's more like it phoenix *Cain agrees with a very heavy heart*

;)

|Cain|

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by pgm316
Well according to that site it is. The site is not very good in my opinion. I have trained in kickboxing and still do occasionally, but that site is very much propoganda. Theres nothing in MT that you can't find in Kung Fu. Its more about preperation and training for that environment.

If they'd fought under a NHB type rules, would we have seen the MT fighters loose. Either way, what does it really prove?

There is a lot of difference between MT and kickboxing.

[pgm316]

Originally posted by Phoenix


There is a lot of difference between MT and kickboxing.

FACT ;)

Do you have to argue every point. Did I say there wasn't. Have you trained in either KB or MT. I've trained at a few places, each place was very different, even within the "same style".

[natxanadu]

I like the people who are prepared to test their art in NHB, like the Gracies, they have faith in their art and are not afraid to put it to the test.

[pgm316]

I wouldn't go that far Nat, can't we just stick to talking a good fight :D

[YODA]

Originally posted by pgm316


I've trained at a few places, each place was very different, even within the "same style".


My experience in Muay Thai has been the same - some big differences between individual camps / lineages.

[Sonshu]

The reason why MT is a strong style is it is based on minimal moves, there are no over dificult Kata, weapons, locks etc.

There are a few throws and lots and lots of hard work training to mess the other guy up.

It is a powerful style, the reason why it does not do so well in MMA is cos people dont stand there and trade shots with em. Get em on the floor and pull em apart. Why fight there fight.

I for one would not like to go up against a skilled Thai fighter as I like my knees. Still get him on the floor then I am ok, by the way I like my stand up game a lot. Just not stupid.

As there are LTD moves you can really focus on it. There are about 50 or so this has been increase from the original 20 I guess. The kicks are very low and VERY hard. I have been on the end of some rockers!

Still, against someon like Dan Severn - you are in for a lot of back suplex's. (See last soul MT fighter in MMA)

Over all I give it a thumbs up - it is simple and effective.

SONSHU

[pgm316]

With MT, I always think its the best MA to train in for a short period of time. I just didn't want to train that way forwever! I'd have lost the motivation, on the other hand the learning curve is steep. Theres no doubt you'd be better than most other MA'ist with similar training time.

I never saw any old or older MT people still training!? Which worried me! I saw them in other styles and they we're often the best at whatever club, but not with MT.

What I'd recommend is a more rounded style.

[Cain]

I think they are good not because of their techniques, but more because of their training intensity, even Kyokushin has kata, but it's still damn hard and effective

|Cain|

[Sonshu]

They are a sucsess because of the techniques as much as the intensity.

All of the moves in true MT are really simple and this is the greatest sucsess, just keep on doing them - there is little variety but boy is it effective.

SONSHU

[Freeform]

I took a good bang in the nose in MT last night, only been there a month, but I'm loving it!

I went to the toilet to blow my nose, and like half my brain came out (okay, it was a big booger covered in blood)! :D

Col

[Guitarboy1212]

there is no one best martial arts. They are all good in their own way. Law: never say one martial arts is better than another because that is false.

[YODA]

Originally posted by Guitarboy1212
there is no one best martial arts. They are all good in their own way. Law: never say one martial arts is better than another because that is false.

Sorry - I can't agree with that. Some martial arts are plaionly better than others. Question is - better for WHAT?

Example: I want to compete at international level and wish to represent my country. Which martial arts is better? TKD or Wing Chun?

[Andy Murray]

Wing Chun, definitely!

' Disqualified? Whaddya mean? He dropped his hands, what happened to "protect yourself at all times?" , besides, he was asking for it, hopping about on one leg like that '

[pgm316]

Yeah definitely Wing Chun! Hav it!

:p

[YODA]

STAVIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thiaboxr2]

All martial arts are effective for self defense, but ONLY as effective as the individual using them.

[USHY]

most martial arts are not good for the street if you reduce it to itselves, you have to lern Boxing, grppling and all that. but the most imporant thing about streetfighting is getting skills in fighting at all. it should be Full-contact sparring, because the more experiece you get in contacts the better you can handle it and thats what you need in streetfight... I know that running is the best self defence, but I also know that it dose not always work... Try PHM or VT things like that... I do not think Ninjutsu will work, it takes too long to learn that art...

[Rob_InDaUk]

Welcome to MAP USHY :D


Rob

[thiaboxr2]

Any style can be used for the street and be effective. Wether its muey thia, aikido, any other grappling art. kung fu or traditional karate.
Only you as the user can make that style effective for you. So now the question is, Are you effective with your art? No? Why not? Then make it effective.

[LiXinLi]

As I wrote on a previous post, no matter what style you choose to learn, there will always be details that anyone but a sifu would be able to notice. Why is it that one ba gua master can defeat another? Or how is it that a supposed master of one style is defeated by another person who knows another style but is not a master? The reason for this is because the victor knows of certain details or specific intonations of the body when executing certain moves or forms. When you choose a style, stick to it and you will master it.

[Marku]

Jeet Kune do and Hapkido (and probably a few others) are meant for realistic street fighting situations. Those are the main "effective" ones.

[Master J]

your own style is the most effective.

Study many MA and combine them into your OWN style!

[pgm316]

Don't forget the other arguably more important argument!

Its not the your style that will save you on the street, but training it hard and realistically! ;)

[Shihuo]

re: origonal posting

I don't think that you can say that there is a all out/round best martial arts to be involved in.

I recently dowloaded a "few" videos of MA compititions(in RL) off of Kazaa(god I love that program), and the results were interesting.... all contestants were black belts....

1. Two of them were where both contestants were of the "hard" style of fighting.. all four people scored hits... and of course only 2 won. It was interesting to watch, as all four were very agressive.

2. Three were with "soft" vs. "hard". I found it extreamly interestint to see.... One Judo, one Hap ki do, one Aikido for the soft, and the three hards were varying versions of Kung Fu. In this case, suprisingly, two out of the three softs won! The Hap-Ki-Do, and the Aikido won out....every time the agressor advanced....they'd move out of the way, and "throw" them to the floor, perhaps with a hit thrown in.

3. And one was where they were both trained in Aikido... lol....talk about waiting for the other to make the 1st move..

Anyhow, what I mean by all that is....they all serve their intended purpose...they just have to be used that way. Also too...any style can defeat any other....given a certain situation.....


:p Regards...

[Bouk Teef]

There is a Ninjitsu class in Glasgow. Goto the following URL for more information:
http://www.bbdscotland.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

If you have any further queations feel free to PM me.

[mild7]

my opinions on 'most effective MAs':

for beating up one guy: Brazilian Jiujitsu or Muay Thai

for escaping from multiple attackers: Brazilian Jiujitsu or Judo(because of the grip breaks, base and ground escapes)

for beating up multiple attackers: Muay Thai or gun or baseball bat

for beating up multi attackers armed with weapons: running or religion

for pulling chicks: Capoiera or wushu

for toughening yourself up to become a hard *******: Boxing or muay thai

for culture history and art: Trad jujitsu/Aikido/kung fu/karate/tkd

for olympic sporting ambitions: TKD or judo

for false sense of security: silat and ninjutsu(just kidding, they are great well rounded arts)


Obviously the best thing would be to crosstrain in different arts. All are good so don't flame me.

[chi-hawk]

I think any school that is a well rounded school is good doesn't matter the style.As long as you learn more than the basics like grappling and weapons.having an understanding of other styles with respect.Even though all styles arn't the same there are a lot of similar thing we can find in each.

[erikido]

This argument is on every board I ever go onto and I personally think it is worthless. It comes down to the practitioner and teachers(the practitioner can't become proficient if the instructor sucks)

[Dark Blade]

boshi - There is no one style.

"in my openion . kung fu is the most effective way of self defence. because it has more than 200 styles in its own. "

Just beacuse soemthign has many styles that doesn't means it's better than the rest.
Well, it might if you study ALL 200 of them.

[zun]

For the ring, Muay Thai has been shown to be one of the best. I don't think that Muay Thai fighters usually are technically the best martial artist, however, their peak conditioning is probably the best. For instance many fighters in thailand have already have 50 fights by the age of 16.

Muay Thai fighters are able to absorb hard hit and will bide their time to get the killer blow in. Favourite knockout amongst the thai's seems to be an elbow or kick to the head (usually the chin).

As this is a Muay Thai is a sport, on the street a fighter can be limited by his training and instincts. For instance, there are no arm breaks, eye-gouging, biting, and kicks to the crown-jewels.

I've studied Muay Thai for a number of a years now and have recently discovered Taiji (Tai chi).

I find Taiji amazing because with it's designed to fight multiple attackers and to KILL opponents with one strike (perhaps with multiple hits in a split second). Taiji is not a sport and so all parts of the anatomy are valid targets. Taiji utilitises acupoint attacks, arm-breaks, eye-gouging etc. in combination with death-strikes (dim mak).

Amazingly, because it doesn't require brute force, a person of 113 years of age (wudang supreme master is of this age), can use taiji to defend themself as effectively a teenager.

The drawback -- it takes many many years to become proficient at taiji and develop the internal strength necessary. I was able to use Muay Thai after just 6 months.

[spartan]

I have found (for me)boxing, Muay Thai & any form of grappling combine really good as for 1 on 1 goes.
I also have combined some selfdefence applications from kung fu into my style or way..
So far it works great in sparring cause its covering striking distance and ground work.
But as everyone else has said what ever works 4 u or whatever interests you.
I find that cross training is a bonus and i beleive its the way to go in MMA.
But thats just my opinion.;)

[aml01_ph]

This is a very old question. I've been into martial arts for several years and I have never encountered the one effective style. But I have certainly encountered my share of effective people. This is why whenever I hear this question, I always ask back: how do you (or they) train?
Take this as an example. A black belt in aikido was mugged by an attacker using a knife. Since aikidoka typically practice techniques against a knife it should be a simple matter right? Wrong! The result was the aikidoka froze up in fear and gave away his wallet (which was the right thing to do since his life was not on the line). Another guy (this one practicing taekwondo) fought back. The result was the TKD guy got stabbed and the mugger got away with his wallet, his watch, and his cellphone.
This actualy happened to two people I know.
I feel that these "which martial arts is the best" questions are stupid and perpetuated by people itching for a fight because of an overblown sense of confidence. Soldiers practice the martial arts, but they could not care less what it is as long as they don't get killed.

[spartan]

...Thats true aml01_ph, but then it comes down to..."what do you train for?
Is it to protect yourself on the street, for health, competition ect,ect.
I started Martail Arts myself for self defence, but as time went on i moved away from that due to the fact that i dont get into any street fights.Trouble just doesnt find me(which is good).
I have had some situations were it was a close call (to fight), but the others guys werent ready just all talk, they backed off.
And thats just one reason i do MA, it gives me courage to stand up for myself and others who are ever treated wrong.
I myself study MA now simply because i enjoy it.I am studing Fitness & am hopeing to become a fitness instructor or personal trainer.I give the credit in my desicion of my career to MA.
I simply practice ring fighting for the competitive side to my personality and just mainly practice to increase my health and longlivity.
...taking one step at a time & see were it takes me...

[goatnipples2002]

Originally posted by boshi
hi,

iwhich is the most effective style of martial arts?.



If you take the most basic techs. (punch, kick, elbow, knee) and refine them and do hubud drills that's a start.

Now only your mind is left and that's the hard part. All arts are effective, it's your mindset that prevents the effectiveness of any tech or art.

Why do people do these extensive katas? when if you fight you barely stray away from the basics? Sounds like a waste of memory cells.

[nzric]

"...Why do people do these extensive katas? when if you fight you barely stray away from the basics? Sounds like a waste of memory cells..."

Sounds like the cave troll in the first LOTR. "me punch things hard. dont need skill."

Put it this way. If you know a few combos/strikes/takedowns pretty well and you first build up your own fitness and endurance levels, that will be much better than choosing what "style" is the best.

It takes years to become expert at any style, and they're all effective to a degree. But the best way of street defence starts with a healthy, fit body and quick thinking/reactions. Any MA can teach you that.

[47Ronin]

I thought Goat Nipples left.........

[goatnipples2002]

Originally posted by goatnipples2002
Why do people do these extensive katas? when if you fight you barely stray away from the basics? Sounds like a waste of memory cells.

I was watching extreme martial arts on discovery channel last week and this guy was talking about how he knew all these different katas, yet when he started to "fight" (it was a joke) his opponenet I didn't see him stray away from basic moves. It was some BS point match but why learn a million katas and/or techs if you don't use them in a REAL situation. It's just my .02, imho learn all the basic techs and add a one knuckle punch to them and they become 50 fold.


Goatman comes and goes likle smoke.

[RubyMoon]

Originally posted by goatnipples2002
It was some BS point match but why learn a million katas and/or techs if you don't use them in a REAL situation. Take the "art" out of "martial" and what do you have left? "Mial." And what does "mial" mean? Nothing. Nothing at all...

...much like this post.

[5AnimalFu]

Any martial art can be applied effectivly from the way I see it. Most arts now teach techniques, which are great and useful when learned, but when you've done them enough and have used them enough in sparring or practice, those techniques become concepts from which you can improvise on in situations you may encounter.

My way of seeing it is: it's not so much what the art has to offer, it's what you take away from the art itself. You can't learn how to play Jazz saxaphone by just playing scales, you have to learn how everything works together so you can adapt your knowledge to the situation at hand. It's not just pushing buttons.

If this makes no sense...well, I apologize. :p

[warren]

on the subject of is benny the jet a fraud,i saw a program on the television called ultimate warriors and it showed the video footage of benny's first fight in thailand against a thai boxer,he said after the first round he wondered what he had gotten in to,then the footage was shown from the second round,benny did a dropping shoulder throw as the thai boxer went to clinch-result one completely sparked thai boxer,it got called a no fight because of the confusion over the rules,he also fought the same thai two year's later footage again shown- resut benny broke three of the thai boxer's ribs with a turning back kick

[fo3nix]

In my opinion (and the opinions of others), it doesn't matter too much what system you study. They all work, its just some are more simple than others. In a proper fighting situation, you do not want to be implementing a complex move or combination of moves, you want to make some very simple movements that gets your opponent on the floor, and leaves you standing (ideally without any bruises).

I myself study traditional wing chun kung fu under sifu Samuel Kwok, and have studied thai kickboxing, TKD and Judo in the past. Judo is imo largely useless in a street fight, as you'll be hit before you know it. TKD is in my opinion more of a sport and show-off art, and while it looks cooler than wing chun, a wing chun fighter equally experienced as the TKD fighter should be able to defeat him. What everybody should be doing (regardless of their style) is try to express themselves in their own personal fighting style. after all, these are martial arts, and as an art form you should be trying at all times to truly express yourself in your work.

Regarding the wing chun fighters beaten by thai kickboxers discussed earlier, it depends largely on their own levels of technical compenance in their styles. the kickboxers may simply have been better at their art than the wing chun practitioners. that doesn't mean that thai kickboxing is 'better' than wing chun.

Back to the original question at hand here: which style is best? first, the best style is the ancient art known by many as 'sprinting'. no matter how technically skilled, strong or big your attacker is (or whether they have a 40" blade); if you cannot reach you because you are running away, they will be unable to harm you. however, we have to appreciate that there may be a time when you cannot simply run away, and in that situation you want to use some quick, devastating moves from the style you choose to defeat your attacker, choosing your attacks carefully with the danger of your attacker in mind. by this i mean if your attacker is carrying a knife and is trying to stab you, then by all means direct all attacks to their neck or any other 'dangerous' area of the body. if not, and they are just trying to punch you for whatever reason, resist hitting them in these dangerous regions, and instead hit them in more traditional areas, like their nose or the corner of their eye. those areas cause a lot of pain, but aren't as lethal.

as an ending note (to something that rapidly expanded as i was typing), the question should be "what question is best for me". i see many times that wing chun etc. is great for all people. i would disagree with this; wing chun for example required fast movements and reactions. if you apply wing chun techniques slowly, you will be hit. if you are someone with very slow reactions to things, then wing chun may not be for you, and something like karate may be better, as it allows you to combine physical strength into the style. also, someone who knows dim-mak very well would make a better street fighter imo, regardless of whatever other style they study, as they would know which points to aim for.

[YODA]

Hey - fo3nix

Welcome to MAP - why not post a message in the Intro's forum.

Lancaster huh? Been there MANY times. MAy even get there tomorrow (My parents live there)

[Redhotdragon]

i'd say taijutsu, forgive me for not reading all nine pages of this thread. But i'm sure all the 'there can be no best' etc has been said, so i won't reiterate it. I say taijutsu because a) i study it, b) imho, it's very complete and i prefer it to other styles i have seen/studied. But this is just personal opinion. I do not believe that there is a universal best martial art. Otherwise all the rest would be pointless to study. An art is only as good as the person who studies it. And, to an extent, their sensei.

[fo3nix]

i've never studied or infact read about taijutsu, but i would agree with you totally about your other points; it does depend very much on your sensei/master/sifu, and yourself too.

[ap Oweyn]

UFC - Big ugly guys hog-tying each other. Damn good to watch, but a good big 'un always beats a good little 'un.

Tell that to Dan "The Beast" Severn, accomplished wrestler and victim of Royce "Quite a Bit Smaller Than Dan Severn" Gracie.

[ap Oweyn]

So the "my style is the best style" camp has been pretty well covered. And the "no style is the best style" camp (with which I'm more closely aligned) is here.

I'm thinking the common thread is experience. Plain and simple. Experience of multiple approaches. Experience of all the applicable facets of one art. Experience enough to make smart and effective training decisions. To choose the right training opportunities. Etc. Time in.

Things like "this art is best because there are 200 (or 1500 styles)" and "that style is best because it was designed specifically for smaller opponents to beat bigger opponents" is rubbish. It's an appeal to authority. It's not an answer. You can only get answers (genuinely satisfactory answers) from time and experience.


Stuart B.

[TigerAnsTKDLove]

in my opinion the most effective art... i don't think there is one cuz when you join a specific m/a its your own unique ability. there may be alot of mc dojos but for a fact there is not one effective unique art. i love tkd its my life but i would never say its most effective. i know every art has the ability to save someone's life.

[shuyun3]

the best martial art is what suits your body.

try tkd with the body of a sumo wrestler!

try wrestling as a 90 lb. wealking.

try kickboxing when you're as slow as crap.

[Shade]

Originally posted by YODA
Sorry - I can't agree with that. Some martial arts are plaionly better than others. Question is - better for WHAT?

Example: I want to compete at international level and wish to represent my country. Which martial arts is better? TKD or Wing Chun?


One would envisage that it depends on which art YOU are better at.

Personally I believe that there is no best MA per se. It is a combination of the art and the artist.

I may excell at Karate but stink at Judo. For me, Karate is the best MA.

You may excell at Judo but stink at Karate. For you, Judo is the best MA.

You might beat me in a fight, then Joe next door might beat you (lets say he does TKD) and then i might beat Joe. Who is the best?

Even if you beat me AND Joe, it just means YOU are better not Judo on its own. Otherwise EVERYONE doing Judo should be able to beat me and Joe.

[dancing dave]

Whats the best? Best for what? Can i win trophys, protect myself/girlfriend/boyfriend,learn history of other cultures and keep my stunning good looks. What happens when i`ve won the ultamate MMA, full cotact, a~*ewhooping contest of the solar system( well maybe someone double hard on mars). And i have a celebratory OJ with my friends. When half man half mountain comes over to tell me i`m in his seat.
Lets keep it real. we can`t tell you whats best cos we don`t know. Hell, we`re hopping we`re doing whats best for us.

[Knight_Errant]

If you are slow, weak etc, wouldn't it be a good idea to work out so that you become fast, strong, etc. ?

[Xia]

Even though studying the basics of different martial arts are great for you. Style branch combinations should only be performed when a high-level of mastery is completed in one martial art. I prefer Wing Chun, into Aikido, into rope-dart(weapon), for example. "it all depends on the martial artist." and "no one is taller than the last man standing."

[Master J]

Try any style that suits you and which you find most adaptable to and appliable. But remember, there is no better style than your own.

[hedgehogey]

re: origonal posting

I don't think that you can say that there is a all out/round best martial arts to be involved in.

I recently dowloaded a "few" videos of MA compititions(in RL) off of Kazaa(god I love that program), and the results were interesting.... all contestants were black belts....

1. Two of them were where both contestants were of the "hard" style of fighting.. all four people scored hits... and of course only 2 won. It was interesting to watch, as all four were very agressive.

2. Three were with "soft" vs. "hard". I found it extreamly interestint to see.... One Judo, one Hap ki do, one Aikido for the soft, and the three hards were varying versions of Kung Fu. In this case, suprisingly, two out of the three softs won! The Hap-Ki-Do, and the Aikido won out....every time the agressor advanced....they'd move out of the way, and "throw" them to the floor, perhaps with a hit thrown in.

3. And one was where they were both trained in Aikido... lol....talk about waiting for the other to make the 1st move..

Anyhow, what I mean by all that is....they all serve their intended purpose...they just have to be used that way. Also too...any style can defeat any other....given a certain situation.....


:p Regards...

Err...what competition was this? How can I get it on kazaa?

[madfrank]

Hi all

A lot of supposed Martial arts aren't in fact Martial arts at all.

A lot of the Japanese MA's were turned into DO's/ Ways which are supposedly about building character not self defence capabilities.

A lot of so MA's dont address the important issues of self defence like the pre fight in fight and post fight adrenelin rush and how to deal with it or the interview pre fight.

For instance the Japanese main form of Karate is Shotokan which was the Okinawan school childrens Karate the Okinawans gave them this as they didnt like the Japs as they kept invading them.:)

This has travelled round the world to be the most practised style in the world yet it is childrens Karate, with all the dangerous moves taken out.

Which the Japs turned into no contact competition karate?

Master Enoeda Senseis claim to fame is he won a childrens no contact karate competition 50 years before his death, no disrespect here but that doesn't impress me?


My first style was KUGB which I eventually found didnt work and when I researched it history I saw why.

I am not saying this to knock anyone just to point out that what is blindly followed by thousands of people as a lethal martial art is in fact not one at all.

The chief instructor in KUGB Andy Shery has also never had a street fight in his life so how could he teach street fighting to someone like my self and otheres that have actual street experience? yet he is a 8th dan master, suposedly.LOL

I could talk of the history of other arts like aikido which came from Aikijutsu which was a martial art and was turned in to a 'spiritual vehicle' after it's founder Ueshiba had a break down?

He thought he was enlightened?

It is surprising how people follow what they are taught without looking into the facts.


MF

[mig29]

In Brazil many people say it´s BJJ, and in the world we have heard of many unusual arts that claim their power against the other styles are superior. We use many itens in fights: clothes, weapons, gloves and so on. Judo uses the gi as support to the techniques that are used, and in BJJ it´s true also. In kendo you can use a sword...
Let´s take everything of the fighters. Two guys naked; no weapons, no clothes; so you demand to these guys to begin "a real no rule fight". They can bite each other, they can aim weak spots, everything. BJJ is impossible, unless they don´t have problems in touching that way naked...
The best fighting style, in this man vs man for real, only have two moves: the finger in the eye and the kick in the balls. Imagine how deep would be if somebody develops a way to kick your balls in a way you can´t escape from this fatal blow.

[Sonshu]

Will work if your naked.

If you are choked out then your out! MMA is great for the physical aspect of fighting and SD but there are fundamental parts missing in the build up to a fight and multiple opponents and awareness.

My advise would be go to a Jujitsu class - normal first off (make sure its credible) and then go to MMA in about a year or 2 and you will be fine tuned to a combat demon.

Well in all honesty you will be on the right path.

There is a lot of components to a fight but what you are looking for is restraint and control techniques with some striking. Good quality Jujitsu is a good start to this and covers a lot of the awareness side. Then go get the tougher physical sides from a MMA school.

My 2p worth

[mig29]

Will work if your naked.

When I said naked I didn´t mean "bare handed". I meant without clothes.

[RobP]

The "best" martial art is the one that honestly addresses your needs rather than your wants. That will be different for each person and sometimes people don't "want" what they actually "need".

People want to look cool, want to feel confident, want to be part of a certain group, want to be a tough guy, want to be a mystical warrior, all sorts of stuff. But look around at your life and circumstances and see what you actually need, then nake your choice based on that.

[Sonshu]

So did I - it will still work.

Triangle Choke
Arm Bar's
Ankle Lock
Neck Crank
Heel Hook
Rear Naked Choke (no jokes)
Single or Double leg takedown
Hammer lock

None of these (as core moves) require cloths to be used so I don't get your point here.

[mig29]

I recall that must be 4% of what I learned at my Jiu Jitsu class (Still I suck in 100% of what I learned)

[Freeform]

Will work if your naked.


Not gonna ask how you train it mate ;)

[Hannibal]

Hi all

A lot of supposed Martial arts aren't in fact Martial arts at all.

A lot of the Japanese MA's were turned into DO's/ Ways which are supposedly about building character not self defence capabilities.

A lot of so MA's dont address the important issues of self defence like the pre fight in fight and post fight adrenelin rush and how to deal with it or the interview pre fight.

For instance the Japanese main form of Karate is Shotokan which was the Okinawan school childrens Karate the Okinawans gave them this as they didnt like the Japs as they kept invading them.:)

This has travelled round the world to be the most practised style in the world yet it is childrens Karate, with all the dangerous moves taken out.

Which the Japs turned into no contact competition karate?

Master Enoeda Senseis claim to fame is he won a childrens no contact karate competition 50 years before his death, no disrespect here but that doesn't impress me?


My first style was KUGB which I eventually found didnt work and when I researched it history I saw why.

I am not saying this to knock anyone just to point out that what is blindly followed by thousands of people as a lethal martial art is in fact not one at all.

The chief instructor in KUGB Andy Shery has also never had a street fight in his life so how could he teach street fighting to someone like my self and otheres that have actual street experience? yet he is a 8th dan master, suposedly.LOL

I could talk of the history of other arts like aikido which came from Aikijutsu which was a martial art and was turned in to a 'spiritual vehicle' after it's founder Ueshiba had a break down?

He thought he was enlightened?

It is surprising how people follow what they are taught without looking into the facts.


MF

WHOOAAA! Easy there Frank (or should I call you Mr Fraser?)

I see where you are coming from, but you go a bit OTT! "Shotokan" was NOT given to the Japanese by Okinawans - it was the style that Funakoshi handed over AFTER he had been taught it by two other masters. Read his autobio for details - it is a fascinating read. Remember that Kano was so impressed he asked to learn Shotokan from Funakoshi so it must have something to offer from a combative angle. As for "non" fighters, well guys like Peter Consterdine, Terry O'Neil and Geoff Thompson are all VERY accomplished "street" guys, and they all speak highly of Enoeda.

Aikido was indeed a variation on Aikijutsu, but again Ueshiba had a reputation for being fierce fighter - his dojo was called "hell dojo" due to the hard training

Be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater!

[Knight_Errant]

I though we agreed not to do this http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=174178#post174178.
Oh, and as to the 'not a proper martial art' thing (gag), it it's martial (i.e. with something warlike as its end) and it exercises your artistic faculties (such as judgement and creative things), it's a martial art. End of story. This includes anything from Boxing to ... shudder... Tae bo...

[Hugh]

I though we agreed not to do this http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=174178#post174178.
Oh, and as to the 'not a proper martial art' thing (gag), it it's martial (i.e. with something warlike as its end) and it exercises your artistic faculties (such as judgement and creative things), it's a martial art. End of story. This includes anything from Boxing to ... shudder... Tae bo...

To be honest mate, I don't think many people actually took any notice of the poll. Oh well. What on Earth is Tae bo?

[Knight_Errant]

Not familiar with Tae bo? Good. Stay away from it. (it's a form of kickboxing intended for the purposes of jacking up your cardio time.)
Poll didn't work?
We'll have to get tough.

[Himura Kenshin]

ok ok ok all this muay tai or whetever the reason they get so good is 90% of them train uaing drugs ok im not lying its a simple fact im not saying all do but hell of alot of them and about the tai boxers beating the wing chun guys pffffft id say the tai boxers were on drugs at the time or training on drugs there is a drug called a green light well used to be called that when my papa did muay tai lol and it completely numbs ur nerves and slows down ur heart rate so u dont get tierd or hurt

and there more i have to say lol somw guy said that there would be more bs sourounding bruce lee then there is benny the jet dude stick up for benny the jet all ya wont but backoff saying BS about bruce lee id say there wouldnt be any bs about bruce lee and if there is it wasnt created by him or or he didnt even know about is bruce lee is the best even if he didnt know martialarts he still would be its almost imposible to match his speed

i do Hapkido and Choy Lee Fut Gung Fu and in my opinion it may not be the best but hapkido is very realistec and very effective i dont mean the hapkido you see in movies with jie han jae that man is kinda kool but hes a complete fake he got his grandmaster belt buy exchanging money over a dinner table he was actualy a redbelt and in game of death he moves like a robot hapki do is all about circular motion and continuety in movement its a heep good and i cant say much about chopy lee fut just yet i only just started also my hapkido master is a master in TKD ad he teaches a TKD class b4 hapkido TKD is not the most effective no way allthough it is very kool lol it looks awsome and nice flashy techneics alot of it isnt realistec and the only person ive ever seen who masterd it is hwonang in tekken lol

[hedgehogey]

Umm...I call BS on your muay thai drug claim. I know plenty of former and current muay thai fighters. Not a one has used drugs to enhance their performance. I severely doubt such drugs exist.

[YODA]

I though we agreed not to do this http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?p=174178#post174178....

I think you'll find that descisions on what we can and cannot discuss here are made above your level mate.

[Freeform]

The Ones Above All (TOAA) have spoken ;)

Rarely do these three Gods deem us worthy of their benevolent wisdom (except Yoda who has a post count in the millions ;) ).

Our comprehension of They're actions is puny and insignificant, as if an ant trying to comprehend an episode of Ally McBeal.

I stand in awe of these creatures and have dedicated my life to be Their servant, and enforcer of Their will. I shalt smite down the unrulely trolls in the name of TOAA!

;) Col

[englishpremier]

hi,

i found out. there are over 1500 kung fu styles not 200. my mistake. plz accept my apology.


cheers
lol just think if you knew all of them and could apply the techniques you'd be an unstopable machine. lol, back to reality

[Barry]

I feel that the most effective art is the one, which can be easily expressed by yourself, one that adapts easily to you. If you find Ju Jitsu easy, then that is the particular art that is most efficient, if you find Karate easy then that is; whatever the art, it should be personally effective to YOU!!

[cybermonk]

There is no such thing as most effective art, all arts, or I should say most arts are effective to a degree and could be used to attain a victory against an untrained opponent. Now about the MT deal...if you are talking about the guys that train in Thailand then you just have to see them train in order to see why they win so much, is like playing soccer for Brazilian people, they do it all day, everyday, the Thai people even have a version of what we call haki zaki(the kicking the cloth ball game) in which they practice their kicks on a ball the size of a tennis ball sending it from one guy to another and thats just what they do when they are off actual training. About the best Chinese fighters...if this happened less than 60 years ago then it is believable as there is almost no true kung fu left in China.

[osopardo]

sprinting

[Kagebushi]

living in a box!

[Stuart H]

AAAARGH! Will everyone stop asking, there is no best martial art. It's the APPLICATION of the art that determines its effectiveness. Somebody lock these threads, or post a sticky to stop people from posting more.

[Himura Kenshin]

i cant rememeber how long since i last post but i am going 2 say

the best style of martial arts i cant pin point witch 1 but its definatly Gung-Fu (Kung-Fu)

just to add to piss you all off because you all love muay thai some style of japanese karata totaly killed the muay thai fighter hahahaha :D it brings joy to my heart lol i dont have anything against muay thai any who has seen the movie ong bak well love it but every1 thinks it is the best but its not its just so practical u do it for a month and ur good and thats as much skill as u will ever get the rest is just condition la.. maybe i am beiong mean lol but muai thai ppl beet up in-experienced martial artist then say muay thai is the best
-_-sigh` "it's bad to say the best, but in my opinion, Gung-Fu is the best"

[Himura Kenshin]

I feel that the most effective art is the one, which can be easily expressed by yourself, one that adapts easily to you. If you find Ju Jitsu easy, then that is the particular art that is most efficient, if you find Karate easy then that is; whatever the art, it should be personally effective to YOU!!

but you see alot of ppl are natural at martial arts and they find every martial art easy you see so lets here from the people whop have done more then one martial art and see what 1 really is the best... GUNG-FU

[cybermonk]

Sorry to break it to you but kung fu is not a style.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

i cant rememeber how long since i last post but i am going 2 say

the best style of martial arts i cant pin point witch 1 but its definatly Gung-Fu (Kung-Fu)

just to add to piss you all off because you all love muay thai some style of japanese karata totaly killed the muay thai fighter hahahaha :D it brings joy to my heart lol i dont have anything against muay thai any who has seen the movie ong bak well love it but every1 thinks it is the best but its not its just so practical u do it for a month and ur good and thats as much skill as u will ever get the rest is just condition la.. maybe i am beiong mean lol but muai thai ppl beet up in-experienced martial artist then say muay thai is the best
-_-sigh` "it's bad to say the best, but in my opinion, Gung-Fu is the best"

heh. first of all like was said above- "gung fu" is NOT a style. in the same way that running encompasses a lot of things, such as sprinting, jogging, cross country etc so does kung fu.
secondly, the amount of times karateka, american kickboxers, and ESPECIALLY kung fu fighters have won against muay thai fighters is small, compared to the amount of times they have been beaten.
thirdly, if you think you know everything about thai boxing after a month, it just shows how ignorant you are. I have been doing it far longer than that but I am still constantly improving.

And just as a side note, I think the idea of person>training method>style is flawed. while a persons will and physical/mental condition are important factors, I thik that even the "hardest" training in a poor style will still produce a poor fighter. for example if you had someone who was dedicated and trained constantly, but was trained by a complete mcdojo, do you really think he would beat someone who trained more casually but was personally trained by the best teacher in the world?

[cybermonk]

the amount of times karateka, american kickboxers, and ESPECIALLY kung fu fighters have won against muay thai fighters is small, compared to the amount of times they have been beaten.


Not sure where the stats come from, point us to any source?


thirdly, if you think you know everything about thai boxing after a month, it just shows how ignorant you are. I have been doing it far longer than that but I am still constantly improving.


Even though I dont do mt I think you can always learn more no matter what art you do. I think Himura's comment besides being heavily biased is a bit on the ignorant side as you suggested.


And just as a side note, I think the idea of person>training method>style is flawed. while a persons will and physical/mental condition are important factors, I thik that even the "hardest" training in a poor style will still produce a poor fighter. for example if you had someone who was dedicated and trained constantly, but was trained by a complete mcdojo, do you really think he would beat someone who trained more casually but was personally trained by the best teacher in the world?

Thats the most sound point I have heard in a while, although I think the whole person>training method>style idea is based on the assumption that they are working with a non dilluted, battle oriented style taught by a qualified instructor.

[Himura Kenshin]

lolz your all so serious gung fu means Hard Work and you state gung fu is not a style i dont care lol when i say gung fu is the best im basicaly stating chinese martial arts is the best... use your brain :P

[Himura Kenshin]

isnt it funny how when u read the thingz posted it sounds like every1 thinks they know everything hahaha

[YODA]

Don't let this get personal guys. Critique styles and training methods by all means - but keep it friendly.

[El Tejon]

Any style that enable you to avoid fighting.

Avoidance Fu is my only style. Had enought of :woo: :woo: :woo: to last me through this life. :D

[siuleemtau]

hi,

i have been going to twae kwan do Club for more than 2 years. but i still couldnt find answer of my question. my question is : which is the most effective style of martial arts?. whether it is karate, judo,twae kwan do , tai chi, thai kick boxing,cooperia, akiado ,kung fu,JKD, ninjutsu or any other.

in my openion . kung fu is the most effective way of self defence. because it has more than 200 styles in its own.

2nd thing. i would love to join ninjutsu school but i couldnt find any school located in glasgow.
if somebody knows any school of ninjutsu in glasgow. plz let me know.
:)


cheers
hello my friend. I noticed you were from Glasgow. There is a good club near you, taught by a guy called Rick young. He teaches Jeet kune do. check him out on google. Good luck.

[kmclye]

Track & field?

[Taliar]

The funny thing is track and field were originally martial arts.

Run at /away from enemy, throw spears, rocks, discs at enemy, jump rivers, fences to get enemy.

[KungFuGirl]

Can't we all just get along!!!!


:eek:

[bcbernam777]

I have studied a few different styles in the past, i am currently studying Wing Chun, Gung Fu. In the past I have studied Tae Kwon Do, and a few variations of Gung fu, Also I have studied Jeet Kune Do (The principles of it). I believe that the best martial arts to learn are the ones that teach not so much technique, but more principals of fighting. The "if and" approach to martial arts is, in my belief, ineffective. I guess fundamentally it comes down to the teacher and the student, if you have a good teacher, and when I say good, I mean one who understands the essence of what he is teaching, then you will learn good MA. If you get a bad one, someone who simply teaches the forms and techniques without any true understanding of the principles involved, then you will not learn good MA. My advice is before taking classess from anywhere look at the principles surrounding the art, if they are simple and clear, and built squarly on sound scientific principles, then you are already infront of the eight ball. I believe that Wing Chun is an effective, straight forward approach to fighting, but that is my opinion, and although i did research before I jumped in, you must research yourself and find what is usefull. Just bare one thing in mind, there is a journey you must take from knowing nothing to becoming effective, and it doesn't matter wich style you learn, you must always take that journey from knowing nothing, feeling awkward, gaining confidence, becoming effective, and finally mastering your chosen art. May you be blessed in your search

[redsandpalm]

I agree with bcbernam777 (was bcbernam776 taken?), if you are being taught specific defenses to specific attacks all the time - get out of there! In a fight you don't have time to think, only to act by instinct. The most effective MA is therefore one which drills the basic principles of attacking and defense until they become instinct. Assuming you train hard you will then be able to adapt to each situation individually. Once you can beat Joe Bloggs comfortably, then worry about looking good etc. You will have to choose your own MA based on your own reasons, there are more sophisticated systems out there than Wing Chun, but you can reach blackbelt in Wing Chun quite quickly. Is this your goal?

[KungFuGirl]

You will have to choose your own MA based on your own reasons, there are more sophisticated systems out there than Wing Chun, but you can reach blackbelt in Wing Chun quite quickly. Is this your goal?

Naturally it varies from school to school but I definitely don't think wing chun gives them out faster then other arts!!!! The fastest that anyone got their black belt in Wing Chun in my school's history was 5 years and that was the fastest! I'd say most are 10 years. I've known tkders that got it in two! This isn't always the case, but I don't like the way you implied that Wing Chun just churns out blackbelts or something. Perhaps you should read the threads about McDojo's and the schools that just pump out black belts if your willing to pay for them. It happens in all martial arts, but not at the good schools that actually care about training and not just profit.

Anyway, I think my master summed it up nicely on his webpage:

What can one achieve physically and mentally from Wing Chun Training?

Whatever your goal is in training, you will achieve what you have put in.

"Ultimately, your only enemy is yourself." -- Master Ng


Um, not sure what he meant by that last line lol. The point is, you will get what you put into it. That goes for any martial art.

So yeah, I agree with everyone else that your art is only effective if it "suits you" and you train hard. So stop bashing wing chun (and TKD) already!!! I have respect for all martial arts.

[redsandpalm]

It was not my intention to imply anything negative about the Wing Chun grading system. Wing Chun was however created because it was felt it took too long for students to become proficient in other styles of the time. It was designed to be mastered quickly (when I say quickly, I mean in terms of ca. 7 to 10 years - not a cheque and a handshake). My point was merely that if you are looking to develop skills to defend yourself from the average attacker(s), many MAs will do the trick if you have a good master and train hard. This is not the same as seeking to vocate yourself to a lifetime of learning and developing your art, and learning to defend yourself from even the most skilled and advanced attackers.
So you have to decide which MA is best suited to your ambitions. If you are just starting off in your MA career, don't worry too much about it - anything is better than what you know now. There is time to find both your goals and your preferred art.
Incidentally, KungFu Girl, I must concur with your Master, the question of one system vs another is meaningless unless you are committed and diligant in your training. You can study the 'greatest' system with the greatest master - and a thug can still beat you senseless if you didn't train it well.