Guard passing ?

[Jay]

Hi guys,
Passing the guard ... what's your favourite / most effective method ? I'm playing with a few different things at the minute, from 'cartwheeling' to 'breaking the grip - pushing one leg to the ground and passing with my knee first'

Having some success, but not as much as I'd like - I think I might be rushing a little bit.

Cheers,
Jay

[Andrew Green]

Depends on what kind of guard he's using, what level he is, what level you are, size, strength, etc.

Just stay offensive, because if you don't he will.

Keep pressure on him, immobolize his hips and use what he gives you, and force him to give you something. Usually you're better off on your feet then on your knees.

Keep it simple, complicated passes will come later.

Pick 2 or 3 and drill them a lot, use them in combination, not alone. Be aware of how he can counter you and use it against him.

If you extend an arm he will likely go for an arm bar, be ready for that and use it against him.

[Jay]

Thanks Andrew, one thing I have been doing lately is (now this may sound a bit complicated) ... I just stand up ! It's quite funny the look on some people's faces.

What do you think of the 'Combat base' ? I'm gonna try to drill that a bit.

Jay

[Bon]

When people stand up, I look for the back sweep.

But, I've been standing up a lot recently and the first thing I look for is the back sweep, so I grab their gi and pull up as they go to sweep me. If there's no gi, I grab around their neck.

A simple one I like is to put my hands on their hips, tuck my elbows in and dig them into their thighs, you can push your weight down hard and trap their leg between your elbows and the floor, watch their legs squirm as they try to get them out from underneath you :D

As people develop better guards and learn to break posture, I've gotta use better passes, so I'm starting to work the ones standing up now. I can post more detail later if you want, got an exam tommorrow. :(

[Jay]

Yeah more detail would be great Bon, cheers.

Good luck with the exam... Get off the internet and get studying !!! :D

Jay

[Sonshu]

When the full guard is on raise your leg to the outside of the grappling leg so it is trapped against your own leg.

Then drive the ball of your elbow into the thigh, they will then fight to get there legs away from you - its a beauty!

You can do it against both legs (only raise one of yours though) and it will break the guard easy either way.

Still the single one is my prefered as it stops you getting punched in the gob!

Let me know what you think on it??????

SONSHU

[Andrew Green]

Originally posted by Jay
Thanks Andrew, one thing I have been doing lately is (now this may sound a bit complicated) ... I just stand up ! It's quite funny the look on some people's faces.


I almost always stand up to pass, I find it much easier.


What do you think of the 'Combat base' ? I'm gonna try to drill that a bit.

Jay

Can you describe it, I think I know what you mean but am not sure.

[Andrew Green]

Elbows in thighs will only work for so long, many guys will just look at you funny. Others will get annoyed because you are causing pain and will likely leave bruises, but not let go because of it.

If it is opening the guard you are worried about here are a couple of options:

Bait them, give them an arm when they seperate for the arm bar go.

Stick one knee into the middle of their butt, other foot stands up. Push their hips ot the floor and sit back using your knee as a wedge. (Their are other ways to go with your knee their.)

Standup. Most people will not maintain a closed guard if you stand.

Cup the back of their head with both hands, elbows into chest and pull the head forwards. This cranks the neck and chokes them if they do not seperate their feet and scoot away a little.

Might as well ask though, what part of passing the guard is giving you trouble?

[Bon]

I don't find the elbows in thigh doesn't work - it works brillantly, only it's very easy to have your posture broken from that position.

Rather than try and describe them, I scanned some pictures:

[Bon]

http://home.kooee.com.au/schonberger/passes.zip

[YODA]

Originally posted by Bon
http://home.kooee.com.au/schonberger/passes.zip


Nice :D

Looks like a blatant copyright infringement - but nice :D

[dredleviathan]

I find that success in opening the closed guard with the elbows depends on the experience of the player. Some people just seem to have no nerve endings after a few years of abuse :D

Having said that sometimes I use a combination of a striking elbow and then a pushing/levering elbow (depending on rules). i.e. the strike shocks the lever moves.

As for techniques then I have luck with the follwoing from closed guard: the knee through (as shown in Bon's pictures) and knee through - hip through, and the knee through to basic pass.

We've drilled this a bit recently so no wonder I'm finding them useful.

By the way Andrew's "knee wedge" is also a great way of opening the guard up (sometimes we wedge say the right knee and post out the left leg straight to force the legs open too). Also threatening or actually using the ankle lock works on occasion.

We generally don't stand up much but that's to make us work the floor techniques more!

[Sonshu]

The only time I find people balance being broken is is if they are sitting up to high, keep your weight on them as much as possible and control the legs as one of your arms is still free.

Use this and it might be easier as I have a lot of sucsess on this so I am pretty pleased with the results of it.

Let me know if this helps and I will check out your downloads as soon as I can get em!

Ta

:D

SONSHU

[Jay]

Nice scans Bon - some good moves there mate :D I'll be working them quite a bit.

I find I can resist the elbows in thighs escape quite well - yeah it hurts a bit, but then again, so does most of the stuff we do :D I tend to sit up and cup their triceps / elbows - it takes some of the pressure off.

Jay

[YODA]

Yo Jay

Instead of cupping the triceps try this....

Thread your left hand through and under their right tricep - making sure that once it's through you keep the back of your hand facing you and your fingers pointing back at you (like doing a palm strike). Reach up (you'll have to sit up) and reach over (palm down) with your right hand (cross-overhook) and grab your left fingers in a chain grip - now pull like buggery towards you, down and to the right. :D

Their elbow should pop off your thigh and their arm will bend giving you a whole lot of options for the kimura, omaplata etc.

[Jay]

Hi Dave,
Yeah thanks - I have tried that but I always seem to get my hand tangled in somebodies sweaty baggy T-shirt (and that aint pleasant :D)
Do I remember Levo showing that one at the Colloseum ... I was reaching saturation point by then, so I can't be sure :D

Jay

[YODA]

Yep - that's the one. We did more detail on it in Stockport. Very nice :D

[Bon]

Originally posted by YODA
Looks like a blatant copyright infringement - but nice :D

I figure it's not a whole book (which I wouldn't scan) and if people like it, they can buy his book(s)... :D

[YODA]

LOL! :p

Just one major flaw in the case for the defence Bon: You haven't told us who's book it is or what the title is :D

[Bon]

Then you're an ignorant fool! :D

It's taken from John Will's book, the BJJ Guard which can be purchased from www.bjj.com.au

[SpongeBob]

Yo Guys, long time no speak :)

I've been working with the guard a lot lately.

I find the elbows in thighs has mixed results. Usual on someone my own size it works quite well. On bigger guys or people who are focused on winning the technique is less effective.

I also found players who use the closed gaurd struggle to use submissions as well. This is just the obsivation i've made in my grappling time against bigger oppenants (>2 stone on my body weight). I find the bigger guys often use less hip movement and put you under less pressure of submission.

The open guard is a great option, allows a lot of hip movement and set up submissions and sweeps nicely. BJJ guys show the use of this guard excellently.

I personally am not a big fan of the closed gaurd as it limits the movement I have in my hips. I like to keep the guy under pressure all the time, looking to either apply a submission or sweep or reversal to another position (little bit of SBG slipping in there :) ). A closed gaurd I see as more of a rest period. My I set myself up for the bigger guy to pin my hips and start to secure my shoulders and/or head.

Cheers guys :)

Speak again soon

Paul

[Sambo Master]

Hi there.
I use a Machado teqnique called the over pass.
keep your wight on the man pushing his thighs towards his body.
Dig your elbow in his left thigh so it loosens.
now you can pass you hand through and around his left leg.
now you are open to do the same with his right. his legs will be on your shoulders so guard from the choak then flip him over.
as he is doing a rol backwards you can run round and grab his belt or whatever from behind, pull him intio your reverse guard and choak him out.

This has only worked once with me but give it a try. if you want more detail of even a vidio of it just say

TNX

[Levo]

Originally posted by YODA
Yo Jay

Instead of cupping the triceps try this....

Thread your left hand through and under their right tricep - making sure that once it's through you keep the back of your hand facing you and your fingers pointing back at you (like doing a palm strike). Reach up (you'll have to sit up) and reach over (palm down) with your right hand (cross-overhook) and grab your left fingers in a chain grip - now pull like buggery towards you, down and to the right. :D

Their elbow should pop off your thigh and their arm will bend giving you a whole lot of options for the kimura, omaplata etc.

Sounds like a good move, I'll have to try that :D

Btw, my all time favourite way to open a closed guard is to have a really tight low posture. Keep good head position, hands in armpits and counter every little hip movement they make. They open their guard to work every time. Now the legs are open insert a knee/double underhook/hip drive/stand up etc etc.

Nathan

[Jay]

Hi guys,

Sambo : Yeah I like that move I've seen it on the Machado tapes as well, but one thing that I struggle to get my head around is this .. when you pass one arm through their guard - are you not setting yourself up to be triangled ? I know the intention is to have both arms through, but unless you do them at the same time, then surely at one point there will be one in and one out. Or am I missing something ?

Levo : I like it mate - so I let them open their guard for me ? Nice :D Just one point ... I think I can remember from your seminar, that you said your hands should be a certain way when in their armpits to be most effective ... was it that you dont hold their biceps ? I can't quite remember ... too many knocks to the head ! (I can thank Yoda for that !!)

Cheers,
Jay

[Levo]

Originally posted by Jay


Levo : I like it mate - so I let them open their guard for me ? Nice :D Just one point ... I think I can remember from your seminar, that you said your hands should be a certain way when in their armpits to be most effective ... was it that you dont hold their biceps ? I can't quite remember ... too many knocks to the head ! (I can thank Yoda for that !!)

Cheers,
Jay

Glad you like it.

For me there's basically two styles of opening the closed guard:

a) "Look, I really want to open your guard. I'm gonna try and jam an elbow and/or knee in somewhere until you let go. Try and stop me"

b) "I don't care if you open your guard. Oh look, I created a situation which looked beneficial for you to uncross your ankles but actually that was exactly what I wanted you to do. Sorry for tricking you like that but now I'm gonna pass your guard".

Both have their uses.

When I have low posture I make sure I have my thumbs pointing up and jam the web of my hand in to their armpit (with elbows tight to their side of course). If you just put the palm of your hand on their bicep it's easy for them to drag the arm across.

Nathan

[Jay]

Excellent .. thanks Levo.

I'm REALLY gonna have to buy your videos aren't I :D

Jay

[YODA]

Originally posted by Jay
Excellent .. thanks Levo.

I'm REALLY gonna have to buy your videos aren't I :D

Jay


You mean you haven't? SHAME on you!