Roundhouse Practicality

[ThaiBxr]

I've been told by a lot of people not to use roundhouse kicks in a street fight, and to stick to boxing and Muay Thai clinchwork... but I'm really starting to doubt that advice. I've had the misfortune of ending up in three street scenarios, and no I sure as hell don't go looking for them, once at a party my friend asked a stranger for a light and he responded by throwing punches at my friend's face so i stepped in, once when some thug from my high school, determined to fight me infront of his friends waited at my car while i was in a grocery store, because somebody I knew called him while drunk and mouthed him off from a party i was hosting, and another time because some wigger jumped a much smaller kid at the locker beside me and started feeding him face shots on the ground that the small kid wasn't able to defend against. Two of those three encounters I ended with high swing kicks with the exception of the one at the lockers where i didn't want to use any strikes on the guy. I really have yet to see why people say not to use them on the street... I just want to get a fight over with as quickly and convincingly as possible so that his friends don't jump in and for that purpose it's worked wonders for me. I mean if you're jumped that's a different scenario, but why not use it if you have the time and space to? Especially in a schoolyard style scenario where you square off before you go at it, I find leading out with a fake lunging jab when you're slightly out of range and planting your foot, then leaning back and going over the top with a swing kick works really well. If they dont' know what they're doing like most people don't, it gets them either lunging back at you flailing, giving you an easy hit, or else they put their hands out infront of them to stop the jab on reflex and again that gives you an easy hit. So what's the big downside to them?

[iamraisen]

its no so much the roundhous, but more the high oundhouse. low thai kicks are very effective tools.

the twp major problems i see with a high thai roundhouse is that it takes longer than most other strikes and that it puts you off balance. there is nothing wrong with it per se- you just need to make sure you and it.

[Davey Bones]

High Roundhouse kicks are a problem. They leave everything open, especially the groin and the knees. If you want to throw an effective roundhouse kick in real life, go low and to the knees. Faster, safer, more controlled, and can still do a good bit of damage to your opponent without opening you up for a nasty groin shot or being tossed off balance while your leg is high in the air.

[nForce]

i always thought this too, obviously in a bar you wont be able to do it, but a 'pre build up fight' like in a school yard, maybe a pushing build up or an arranged one, round house to the head would work wonders, and just follow it up with a kick to the ribs or some punches

[iamraisen]

people say keep them mid height or lower. i say keep them thigh height or lower. you can easily get a high or mid kick caught or even just get tangled up in limbs.

as BKGuy said, keep em low and keep safe. not worth the risk for a bit of fancy finishing

[Matt_Bernius]

I agree with the idea of low tactical kicking that's being aspoused.

But the contradiction of self defense is the technique that works is the technique that works and the technique that doesn't work is the technique that doesn't work. Look hard enough and you'll find cases of successful high kicks and unsuccessful low kicks.

In general however its best to play the statistical safe road and choose strategies and tactics that maximize results while minimizing potential risks.

- Matt

[Davey Bones]

Well, look at the guy in London was it? Convicted of Manslaughter... High Roundhouse kick to the head. Not saying it's deadly, merely an example of where one was effective.

Me, personally, low. My instructor... low.

Especially at my height! I'm only 5'3"! I can't even kick the average 15 year old in the head I'm so short! :p

[Matt_Bernius]

Well, look at the guy in London was it? Convicted of Manslaughter... High Roundhouse kick to the head. Not saying it's deadly, merely an example of where one was effective.It was Austrialia... and a lot of extenuating circumstances, such as the kickee was neither moving or involved in the fight (and may not even have been looking in the direction of the kicker). Hence why we move from self defense to manslaughter.

- Matt

[Davey Bones]

Thanks for the refresher, that case is old news now. But still a frightening example of an effective kick... perhaps TOO effective!

[ShihanBKS]

what is practical for one is not always practical for another. There are people who can kick high with ease, and there are those who can not. A kick to the head can very well be dodged or stopped as easily as punch. No matter what technique you use there is a disadvantage. This tends to get into a long discussion of "what if's." A high kick as a counter technique is better than your first technique which is usually seen ahead of time.

If you can do a high kick without losing your balance, pulling a muscle, with proper technique and good timing-----go for it.

Most techniques work best against the untrained eye, those who know what is coming at them and know how to avoid it have a better chance of not getting hit. Why do you think most beginners in a sparring session are easier to hit and kick?----because they don't have enough training to read it, effectively, block it or move out of the way and counter against it. They don't have good reaction skills.

[TKD=FUN]

Most techniques work best against the untrained eye, those who know what is coming at them and know how to avoid it have a better chance of not getting hit. Why do you think most beginners in a sparring session are easier to hit and kick?----because they don't have enough training to read it, effectively, block it or move out of the way and counter against it. They don't have good reaction skills.

i think your right ive used roundhouse kicks to the head before and they have worked very well. you just have to be fast and know how skilled the other person is at fighting.

[Slindsay]

Whatever works works, nor arguing with it.

Personally Ive never even had a chance/needed to hit someone but if you can do a hard high roundhouse in street clothing without warm up and your confident the other guy wont catch it then why not?


<Warning: what follows if off topic>
Personally Ive alway wondered about reverse turning kicks <ducks barrage of shots>

Seriously though I can throw a reverse turning kick at head height in normal street clothing with no bother at all, it doesnt test my flexibility one jot. Plus I throw the technique going forawrds. If I get the chance I wonder if throwing it will help end a fight? It wouldnt really have to connect but I think that seeing someone do that "Jackie Chan crap" may intimidate someone and discourage them from continuing. I would only consider throwing it if the oither guy was squaring off at a long distance though, the purpose of the kick being to miss them but to intimidat more than anything else, of course it would have to be judged on circumstances and the like but Im not expecting to ever use it really, just curious what people think :confused:

[Davey Bones]

To be brief, not sure I ever wanna give my back to an opponent.

[Slindsay]

Yeah thats my worry as well, hence why I would only throw it if they where a couple of yards away, to be honest god knows why they would be their unless I had shoved them away :D

[ThaiBxr]

If I get the chance I wonder if throwing it will help end a fight? It wouldnt really have to connect but I think that seeing someone do that "Jackie Chan crap" may intimidate someone and discourage them from continuing. I would only consider throwing it if the oither guy was squaring off at a long distance though, the purpose of the kick being to miss them but to intimidat more than anything else

That's exactly why I threw the high roundhouse the first fight I was in, when the guy was waiting at my car. About 3 of his friends were standing 20ish feet back at his car watching and I figured that if I started off with the most flashy Muay Thai technique I knew, being the high roundhouse, they would be less likely to jump in. I wasn't expecting that first kick would end the fight like it did, I more wanted the other guy to be intimidated into taking a less aggressive approach to the rest of the fight so that I would be able to keep more level headed, and his friends wouldn't intervene.

[TheMightyMcClaw]

My take on it, and feel free to argue against this....

I think a lot of people have a fear that if they kick high in a street fight, their leg will be grabbed and they'll be thrown to the ground. While this is a viable threat, it is no more true in a street fight than in sparring. If you can pull off head kicks against a trained fighter in your club, why not against and untrained fighter outside of it? (barring factors such as icy parking lots and the like).

[minimal]

That's the big if. I would have thought a lot of high-kickers would be destabilised in sparring also. I can't really remember from my own sparring. But I have seen videos of MA fights. And I see lots of people being knocked over while high kicking.

The time needed for the technique is a factor, and if people are around you then any of them could either try grabbing the leg or ploughing into you while one leg is up.

If you know your opponent can't grab your leg or charge quickly, and when they are also disadvantaged in terms of blocking or evading, that's the time to use a high kick, I guess. In other words, in the middle of a fight where you have gained positional advantage over the opponent. Perhaps where they have been somewhat off-balanced but not well enough for a throw, push, etc, and are returning to balanced.

Just my $0.02. I don't kick much.

[Davey Bones]

I just don't like levaing myself open like that. Besides, I have more power with low kicks than I do high kicks, especially at my rather short height...

[ThaiBxr]

Well you don't really get knocked over a lot throwing roundhouse kicks to the head, you get knocked over when you throw them to the midsection and your opponent absorbs the kick with their torso while hooking their arm around your leg. All you can really do against a roundhouse to your head is block and counter, or push kick if you know it's coming.

[minimal]

I'd attack the other knee when the kick withdraws. Maybe. I have a bad habit of keeping a distance when my opponent is kicking when I should be finding an opening.

I think of it as a dangerous technique. On the other hand, should you have a relatively clear shot at your opponents head, it's even more dangerous to them. It's a question of choosing your times, rather than thinking of it as like a jab which you can do pretty much anytime.

[rizal]

i find a reverse turning kick is very vulnerable to someone who has some palm and finger training (like silat harimau). It exposed your nerve endings, especially the one behind your knee. it can get very painful.

[holyheadjch]

a high roundhouse is more exposed, but if landed will do more damage, a low roundhouse is less exposed but will generally do less damage, my personal favourite is a snapping karate style roundhouse to the hip using my shin, they're legs just go out from under them, I've been told its used a lot in kyokushinkai?

[#1 Stutta]

It just depends on the person. I'm a tall guy. I know I can use high kicks very well, so I do. If you're short like BKGuy, don't use the high kicks.

A thing with high kicks is it's easier to see them coming. Just practice them a lot and get faster at them. Then you'll be able to use them without your leg being dodged, blocked, or caught.

[Fish Of Doom]

hello.

one thing we learn at our dojo for kicking, it that when your leg is grabbed on a body kick, you should instantly jump forward and start attacking, and it works absolute WONDERS.

thing is, if you pull back, you usually don't have enough strength to release your leg, or your leg is realeased too fast or something, either way you end up on your butt and get the snot kicked out of you, but if you jump forward, your leg folds and your opponents grab supports you, so you don't fall down, and since your opponent is grabbing your leg he can't defend well, so you can attack him till he's dead meat.

if you're flexible enough to throw a high roundhouse(i am but i'm short, 4'10'' so i won't be doing those), the same principle could apply, but i'm not sure so it's only my humble opinion, also if you manage to break a grab after a high roundhouse, you could unchamber the leg and smack him one in the head or neck while you punch him drawing away his guard.

another thing i've noticed is that since one leg is on the air and you're fully supported, you can get more of your weight into the punches so you can punch with max strength with either hand.

opinions on this?

[Ikken Hisatsu]

hello.

one thing we learn at our dojo for kicking, it that when your leg is grabbed on a body kick, you should instantly jump forward and start attacking, and it works absolute WONDERS. while this CAN work, the chances are pretty slim. if your opponent has your leg you physically arent going to be able to hit him very hard at all- you cant use your hips so its gonna all be in your arm. if the other guy just stands there you can pull him into a punch, but from what ive seen the natural reaction is to push the leg upwards and throw the kicker on their ass.

thing is, if you pull back, you usually don't have enough strength to release your leg, or your leg is realeased too fast or something, either way you end up on your butt and get the snot kicked out of you, but if you jump forward, your leg folds and your opponents grab supports you, so you don't fall down, and since your opponent is grabbing your leg he can't defend well, so you can attack him till he's dead meat. this is better- if you can get in close and clinch (and know what you are doing) you can put the hurt on. this all depends on how fast he reacts and what he does, which in a fight with an untrained person, could be pretty much anything.


another thing i've noticed is that since one leg is on the air and you're fully supported, you can get more of your weight into the punches so you can punch with max strength with either hand.

opinions on this?

not sure what you mean here- generally if one leg is in the air your punches are weaker, with a couple of exceptions like the 2x4 and flying punches.

Just speaking from experience, a roudnhouse kick doesnt have to be aimed at someones head. one of my mates mates (a guy I didnt particularly like) was annoying me so I gave him a low roundhouse right across his ass. guy couldnt walk properly for a while after that, and even though it was on fairly rough surface (semi gravelly driveway) i was stable enough that I didnt go ass over tit.

[Albert]

People only bash high kicks in a streetfight if they cannot use them effectively, it all depends on how good you can execute them. For example, i would use these kicks in a street fight because im good enough to use them effectively without there being any problem, but someone who's not the best kicker, wouldnt want to attempt it because it could end up with them being tripped or thrown onto the ground. And just a quick question, you said that the third fight you didnt have to hit the kid, what happened?

[Fish Of Doom]

while this CAN work, the chances are pretty slim. if your opponent has your leg you physically arent going to be able to hit him very hard at all- you cant use your hips so its gonna all be in your arm. if the other guy just stands there you can pull him into a punch, but from what ive seen the natural reaction is to push the leg upwards and throw the kicker on their ass.

i've gotten pretty good with it already, i guess it's practice a lot and a lot and a lot...

another thing that may have helped me is the fact that we train sliding movements, both in normal basics, sparring drills and actual sparring, therefore i (sort of :P) can do it well, and yes you can use your hips(just to be sure i'm talking about body kicks here :D) because as you jump or impulse yourself forward you fold your leg a bit, so you have better balance, and you have good support since your opponent is holding you :P

anyway IMO you don't need that much hip power when in clinch distance :P , or maybe it's just the kind of punches that i do? :confused: :confused: :confused:

this is better- if you can get in close and clinch (and know what you are doing) you can put the hurt on. this all depends on how fast he reacts and what he does, which in a fight with an untrained person, could be pretty much anything.

you DO get close and clinch when you jump forward, though using punches and using elbows and stuff is a bit different :D, doesn't have to be strictly punches anyway , though something REALLY sweet albeit grossly impractical unless you're very fast would be pulling yourself up on the guy's shoulders and kneeing him in the face :D

not sure what you mean here- generally if one leg is in the air your punches are weaker, with a couple of exceptions like the 2x4 and flying punches.
the first one you should do IMO should be some sort of ultra mega powerful sliding jab of destruction, sliding straight jabs are quite strong in this particular situation, although as i said earlier for some reason i don't find my strength reduced when punching from there :confused: :confused: :confused:


Just speaking from experience, a roudnhouse kick doesnt have to be aimed at someones head. one of my mates mates (a guy I didnt particularly like) was annoying me so I gave him a low roundhouse right across his ass. guy couldnt walk properly for a while after that, and even though it was on fairly rough surface (semi gravelly driveway) i was stable enough that I didnt go ass over tit.

ok that made me laugh, sounds like something i would do when pissed off :D


anyway try it sometime to experiment a bit, have someone hold your leg like you tried to kick him/her in the ribs and practice sliding in and out of clinch distance, then experiment whatever attacks you like, you'll see that once you get used to it it's grossly fast and usually unexpected :D

[Davey Bones]

Obvious trolling techniques aside, here is my thinking:

1. I'm 5'3". I've never tried a high roundhouse in my jeans (now I have to just to see what happens!). I can, after a LOT of stretching, land a high roundhouse on someone maybe 5'10". Cold? Not too high. And remember, realistically we're cold unless we're participating in a sanctioned fight, which is not the premise of this thread. If you're flexible enough with no stretching, hey go for it.

2. I have a couple of techniques to escape from a grabbed kick. A bit too gymnastic for my taste, I'd probably moidify it. I like Ikken's sugestion better.

3. I prefer the idea of taking oiut someone's knee versus their head. I'm banking on being able to run faster if they have a bad knee than if there isn't enough power in the head kick.

Just some random thoughts on this lovely memorial day...

[Fish Of Doom]

A bit too gymnastic for my taste

????, may i politely ask what is gymnastic in just sliding forward?


3. I prefer the idea of taking oiut someone's knee versus their head. I'm banking on being able to run faster if they have a bad knee than if there isn't enough power in the head kick.

do you mean this as in you'd roundhouse them in the knee rather than in the head?

[Davey Bones]

????, may i politely ask what is gymnastic in just sliding forward?

Sorry, thought it was clear. The technique my stylke uses to escape from a grabbed kick is too gymnastic. Modified scissors kick. Twist, kick with free leg in air, get opponent to release, land, kick knee of opponent. Much easier to low kick in the first place.


do you mean this as in you'd roundhouse them in the knee rather than in the head?

Exactly.

[Fish Of Doom]

Sorry, thought it was clear. The technique my stylke uses to escape from a grabbed kick is too gymnastic. Modified scissors kick. Twist, kick with free leg in air, get opponent to release, land, kick knee of opponent. Much easier to low kick in the first place.

ahhhhh, ok, thought you meant the sliding thingy sorry :P




Exactly.

ok, i agree on that, so what's your opinion on body kicks?(more specifically roundhouses to the rib area). i would use one if i got a big opening or the guy's arms are someplace else. like i just grabbed them or something.
also i would aim either for the floating ribs or the area below the armpits, since those two areas are more fragile and/or painful than the middle ribs and the sternum area.

so what do you all think?

[Davey Bones]

ahhhhh, ok, thought you meant the sliding thingy sorry :P

No problemo. I like the slidy thingie, it works for me. I like the scissors kick, but really, it's more of an insult move (Like "ha ha, loser, look what I can do!"), not as practical as say, sliding into my opponent and hitting him in the face. I'm all about practicality.


ok, i agree on that, so what's your opinion on body kicks?(more specifically roundhouses to the rib area). i would use one if i got a big opening or the guy's arms are someplace else. like i just grabbed them or something.
also i would aim either for the floating ribs or the area below the armpits, since those two areas are more fragile and/or painful than the middle ribs and the sternum area.

so what do you all think?

Body kicks are cool if I have an opening. I happen to be very good with a roundhouse off the front leg. We've already debated in some other thread the efficacy of such a move, but if it means he gets stunned and I walk away, I'm happy.

[Fish Of Doom]

No problemo. I like the slidy thingie, it works for me. I like the scissors kick, but really, it's more of an insult move (Like "ha ha, loser, look what I can do!"), not as practical as say, sliding into my opponent and hitting him in the face. I'm all about practicality.




Body kicks are cool if I have an opening. I happen to be very good with a roundhouse off the front leg. We've already debated in some other thread the efficacy of such a move, but if it means he gets stunned and I walk away, I'm happy.


ok so we're on the same boat, cool :D

[rizal]

Still don't like roundhouses.
A buddy of mine was being harassed by a bully, who is a Tae Kwon Doin. Finally he had enough and yelled back. The guy got mad and executed a high kick towards the head.
My buddy just put his elbow to block-strike it on the shin. Cracked the bone.
A perfect example of zero power maximum result.

[ThaiBxr]

And just a quick question, you said that the third fight you didnt have to hit the kid, what happened?

It was just a thing at my lockers where some kid came while me and my buddy were taking our books out after lunch. There was a small kid next to me, grade 9 or 10 and this guy was a grade 12 and much bigger. He pushed the kid back against the lockers and the kid fell down to his butt and put his hands infront of his face while the bigger kid, (some wigger who thought he was tough because he wore lugz and a flat brimmed hat, you know the type) started throwing underhand punches and knees at him. I pulled the bigger kid off and he took a swing at me and missed. I wouldve liked to have given him a roundhouse to the legs, but I was wearing jeans and i can't use my legs worth not much when im wearing them. I just ducked under and took out his legs when he came flailing like an idiot, and laid on him until a teacher came out which was like 5 seconds after i took him down. That was the end of it. The kid got suspended, and surprisingly didn't come back to try and jump me or something later on.

[Albert]

Yah i know that type, morons wearing clothes so big they couldnt fight even if they wanted to cause there pants are around there knees, lol.
That was a nice move taking out his legs like that, it works so well yet i never seem to think to do it. And im surprised he didnt bother you after, with like 12 other just as stupid looking kids.

[ThaiBxr]

He hung out with the same group of people as the guy who had waited at my car a few months earlier. That might have had something to do with it, but I really don't know. I consider myself lucky for not getting jumped, but I'm not often in a position which leaves me succeptible to it. I'm usually with a few friends at least in school, and I have a car so I never walk home, plus I live an hour's walk from my HS.

[Judderman]

As with every other technique you might use, you need to tailor it to the environment and the target.

Low kicks have the advantage of being below the field of vision (remember adrenaline), but aren't necassarily fight enders, which is what I'd imagine most are aiming for.

High Kicks can have the fight ending potential, but aren't as easily adapted to environment, simply because of the shift in the centre of gravity. The higher it goes, the more likely you will land on your butt.

Just as further food for thought. If you were pulled up for defending yourself, which do you think would look better in court?

The same affects can be achieved in much safer and subtler ways, so why endanger yourself? That said I am one of those who can no longer kick high :p :D

[Davey Bones]

I do have a question for those who are proponents of the high roundhouse kicks...

Can you actually do them in jeans?!? One of my first instructors back in the early 90's was a former bouncer and kickboxer. He told us about tossing a high kick and dropping himself because his jeans were too tight to allow him to get off a high kick...

[ThaiBxr]

I do have a question for those who are proponents of the high roundhouse kicks...

Can you actually do them in jeans?!? One of my first instructors back in the early 90's was a former bouncer and kickboxer. He told us about tossing a high kick and dropping himself because his jeans were too tight to allow him to get off a high kick...

Nope, well I can't at least.

[TKD=FUN]

wear baggy jeans is the simple answere.
i think there is a cloths range out there with the martial artist in mind i think they are the same as jeans they just alow you to kick high without being restricted

[ThaiBxr]

I used to skateboard a lot, so most of my pants are khaki types anyways, and you can kick fine in those.

[Davey Bones]

Oh good lord, lol. I am now waiting for the day when one of my clients takes a swing at me in court and I have to toss of a kick in dress slacks and a blazer. Too funny an image, lol

[ThaiBxr]

haha, yeah it visually just doesn't seem right.

[#1 Stutta]

You can do high kicks in jeans--just don't sag, that's all. Plus, it looks stupid when your pants are sagging low.

[slipthejab]

or..
if your wearing skin tight Jordache jeans a'la the '80s then you may have some trouble not only with high roundhouse kicks but also with getting people to take you seriously for anything. lol. :D

come on guys - don't you remember the jeans with the diamond-stretch crotch that Chuck Norris was flogging in Black Belt magazine?!?! It showed him doing some high kick while wearing them... gold sticking on blue denim... and he had a cowboy shirt on and boots... lol... yippee kai yai mo fo! :eek:

[Fish Of Doom]

Just as further food for thought. If you were pulled up for defending yourself, which do you think would look better in court?


Personally i think that a low kick can get you in much less trouble than a high kick, but that also depends on the judge and stuff like that.

my reasoning is this, you're in court, your "person who you kicked"(stupid term i know :D), is slightly limping, and you get asked what happened, you explained blahblahblahyaddayaddayadda he started attacking me and i kicked him in the leg to stop him.

not much violence isn't it, he attacked you and you responded with one blow without followups.

now if you broke his nose and/or knocked him out, you get asked, you answer blahblahblahyaddayaddayadda he attacked me and i kicked him in the head.

<gasps and whispers across the room>

you get tagged as a violent psycho who responded exageratedly with a "d34d1y k4r4t3 k1ck", as half the people in the world would describe a simple high roundhouse. :bang:

of course i'm an exagerate nutcase so feel free to disagree:D

[slipthejab]

only thing is...

if you're in a street scrap and you see you opening to land a beautiful roundhouse to the head or neck... do you then:

A) fire and take your opponent down and end the confrontation

B) mentally review all the legal ramifications of what may or may not happen if you end up in court - and in doing so lose the chance to end the fight?

I am inclined to go with A.

[Albert]

I am inclined to go with A.


Exactly.. Im not going to miss a shot, or use something less harmful, just to have a better chance in court, if its gunna give the attacker a possible chance to get the upperhand over me.

[Fish Of Doom]

only thing is...

if you're in a street scrap and you see you opening to land a beautiful roundhouse to the head or neck... do you then:

A) fire and take your opponent down and end the confrontation

B) mentally review all the legal ramifications of what may or may not happen if you end up in court - and in doing so lose the chance to end the fight?

I am inclined to go with A.
yup i agree with that, i was talking more along the lines of a simple you're arguing with a guy and it gets heated up and he takes a swing or two and you just kick him, i ain't even counting much on going to court if a guy starts hitting me like a madman, i'm just going to try and beat him to a pulp before he does :D

as stated though, i'm an exagerating nutcase :P

[slipthejab]

i was talking more along the lines of a simple you're arguing with a guy and it gets heated up and he takes a swing or two and you just kick him,
?! :eek: :confused: :confused: :confused:

That last part stands out.

he takes a swing or two and you just kick him

If he takes a 'swing or two' then it's not just kicking him. At that point it's already gone down the path of violence. If he has already taken a swing I don't need to second guess his motives.. he's clearly displayed them... so at that point if a kick is the response... then it is the one that will hopefully take him down.. if that's a high roundhouse then so be it... if it's a kick in the cajones... then all the better.

But the point is he's already taken a swing... it's on in a big way.

[Fish Of Doom]

?! :eek: :confused: :confused: :confused:

That last part stands out.


If he takes a 'swing or two' then it's not just kicking him. At that point it's already gone down the path of violence. If he has already taken a swing I don't need to second guess his motives.. he's clearly displayed them... so at that point if a kick is the response... then it is the one that will hopefully take him down.. if that's a high roundhouse then so be it... if it's a kick in the cajones... then all the better.

But the point is he's already taken a swing... it's on in a big way.


yeah i know, what i mean by a swing or two i mean before it turns into an all-out smashfest, if a guy takes a couple swings at me i'm goint to try and calm him down first, although only for a few seconds, anyway what i meant was that no matter what your personal views are, in court they're probably going to consider you a "brutal and nasty barbarian MAist" for kicking someone in the face just for a couple punches, while if you just kicked him in the leg there won't be as much repercussion since he was trying to blow your nose off :P

[Davey Bones]

only thing is...

if you're in a street scrap and you see you opening to land a beautiful roundhouse to the head or neck... do you then:

A) fire and take your opponent down and end the confrontation

B) mentally review all the legal ramifications of what may or may not happen if you end up in court - and in doing so lose the chance to end the fight?

I am inclined to go with A.

I'm inclined to go with the option you omitted, which is (C) Throw a solid hand strike of some sort to the neck or face area. Always other options! :D

Personally i think that a low kick can get you in much less trouble than a high kick, but that also depends on the judge and stuff like that.

You would be correct. There's a reason more and more schools are beginning to teach that there are other consequences to what we do.