differences in styles

[boston]

can anyone comment on the differences in styles of ju jitsu?
does brazilian jj contain all of the throwing techniques of japanese judo? does small circle?

[Jim]

Even (some) Judo doesn't contain all the throwing techniques of japanese Judo! I think that you'll find that it varies from Dojo to Dojo and it would be hard to make the comment that ALL BJJ do this or do that (apart from groundfighting).

Why do you ask?

[boston]

I'm asking because I was thinking of taking up a martial art in the jj family, and the choices near me (boston, mass) include judo, bjj, and small circle jj among others. I don't know much about bjj other than the emphasis on ground fighting. I also know that there are ground techniques in judo, but that it is more of a "sport" so some of the more "dangerous" techniques might not be taught. I was wondering about the general differences between these three arts.

[Andrew Green]

Sport is good, a technique to dangerous to use in sparring is a technique you will never really learn to use.

Judo - throwing people who don't want to be thrown and occasionally using them for oragami

BJJ - Using people for oragami that don't want to be oragamied and occasionally throwing them

Small circle - making people who aren't resisting you scream by twisting their wrist and fingers into pretzels.

[ptcruiser]

Originally posted by Andrew Green
Sport is good, a technique to dangerous to use in sparring is a technique you will never really learn to use.



Hope you aren't for real "sport is good". Sport would only get you in trouble in a fight with a good street-fighter.:woo: Survival martial arts will give you the confidence and stamina to overcome.

[boston]

So your'e saying it's better to use something in a street fight that you've never actually done before?
I mean, you may theoretically know how to gouge someone's eyes out, but hopefully you haven't actually
done it every week in the dojo.
I do understand andrew green's post about why sport is good. Because you can use a technique that you've
actually done to completion against an opponent who is resisting you, as opposed to one that you've only
done in the air.

[ptcruiser]

maybe I should have broadened the picture. No, I'm not talking about Eye pokes.
After 40 yrs in ma, I've seen many from sport ma embarressed by some street punk. A world class blackbelt famous for boxing and kickboxing teaching TKD in Dallas,Texas. Unable to defend himself against a street punk who didn't catch him off guard. Went toe to toe no weapons, one on one, fortunately the ma'ist wasn't injured very badly. Both were about some size and age. I have spent my career teaching other styles as well as mine how to handle street punks and gang members. Would my experience of 20+ years handling this kind undefeated be of any merit?
Not trying to be a braggart. I have talked the talk because I have walked the walk. Also competed full contact in late 60's and 70's.

[boston]

What styles are you teaching or recommending then, for real world situations? ptcruiser

[Andrew Green]

There are different forms of sport, some are more usefull then others. Sport TKD is not one of the usefull ones.

MMA however is very different then point sparring.

Judo is a sport where you are learning how to throw someone who is resisting you in everyway they can. Take the sport out and just practice throws and you won't be able to throw anyone.

Sport is the best training method, but for it to work the rules and techniques have to mimick reality as close as possible.

[boston]

I'm assuming that what you mean by
"Take the sport out and just practice throws and you won't be able to throw anyone."
is that you would have no practical experience if you were only practicing with a willing uke.
I studied aikido for a while, and it made me wonder how practical it would be in a real world situation.

[ptcruiser]

Originally posted by boston
What styles are you teaching or recommending then, for real world situations? ptcruiser

Boston, let me clarify the difference in sport and survival martial arts first.
Sport I'm referring to is recreational, enjoyment for getting or staying in shape.
Survival is for the more serious ma'ist which includes more disciplines, devotion, attitude for excellent training. Pushing your body and mind to the next level of power and speed.

If you are one of the second I'm referring to, any style will suffice, if only recreational then very little benefit from training. True training involves mind, body and spirit with the determination to go all out to achieve a personal reward more so than a cretificate to hand on a wall. It's not as much the style as it is the individual and teacher.
Would you prosper by learning techniques to block and punch or kick without building your body to take a punch or kick?

[YODA]

Originally posted by ptcruiser

Survival is for the more serious ma'ist which includes more disciplines, devotion, attitude for excellent training. Pushing your body and mind to the next level of power and speed.


Wow!

So you're saying a "sporting" combat athlete like a Randy Couture, Lennox Lewis or Tito Ortiz doesn't have those traits?

Wow!

[ptcruiser]

Originally posted by YODA
Wow!

So you're saying a "sporting" combat athlete like a Randy Couture, Lennox Lewis or Tito Ortiz doesn't have those traits?

Wow!

You may label it "sport" but it sure looks like survival to me.
If you consider that sport then what do you call survival?
Maybe a dictionary definition of sport and survival would help.

[YODA]

LOL!

Yeah - it's a pretty tough sport - but still sport :D

It seems the boundaries are blurred - as is usually the case.

[pgm316]

I always looked down on sport until I got more involved and realised these people could actually fight. In theory kickboxers should be as good, no elbows, headbutts etc etc But as a tool sport made them a good fighter, and they did also train with techniques that would be illegal in the sport, so they may just break a rule or 2 in da stweet :D

Sport is a trickey subject, some people it makes very good fighters while others it hides the reality of real fighting......

[boston]

where we started with the sport thing was actually judo versus brazilian jj. andrew green brought up that one of the benefits of the sporting aspect of judo was the practice one gets against a resisting opponent.
The reason I was surprised by the response that pt cruiser gave was that I also thought judo would be useful for street combat, and thats what we were talking about in regard to sport. I wasn't really talking about kick boxing.

[Andrew Green]

Everybody knows this guy.

He's got a garage full of all sorts of cool looking tools. All of them, lots of money invested, pretty much any tool you could possibly need, he's got one. Still shiny and new.

But the guy couldn't put up a towel bar that would stay up.

Sport keeps you from being that guy

edit: strange typo :Alien:

[YODA]

Originally posted by Andrew Green
Everybody knows this guy.

He's got a garage full of all sorts of cool looking tools. All of them, lots of money invested, pretty much any tool you could possibly need, he's got one. Still shiny and new.

But the husy couldn't put up a towel bar that would stay up.

Sport keeps you from being that guy


ROFLMAO :D

So true :D

[Jim]

Yeah I know that guy... I gave him 50 bucks towards building me a spice rack... still waiting. If you see him tell him I want my 50 bucks back.