Buddhist/idols...not really

[hunnysan]

I was born and raised Buddhist.. :rolleyes:

But i also studied christianity/catholisim/judaism....juss to get a better view of religion...why is it everytime another religion (mostly christian) ask what i am and i say buddhist...the first words (usually) is...Why would you worship an idol???

I don't...i follow a path that buddha found to reach enlightment..(corny as that sounds) but on top of that...i've seen plently of christians/catholics pray to a figure of jesus or the virgin mary....isn't that idol worship..did god not say not to worship idols??? Am i wrong?? Do a majority of buddhist pray to idols...but at the same time don't christians/catholics do the same?

-dj hunny

[Strafio]

I've never heard that one before.
I've heard odd weird criticisms like Karma culture (where people treat Karma like an infectious disease - don't help someone in an accident, you might catch their bad karma), but not been accused of worshipping an idol.

I think some places do have a tradition where the idols seem to be worshipped (although I think that they're supposed to just be a means to focus on to aid meditation).

[Kwajman]

Wow, this threads going to get hot quick.

[Capt Ann]

I think it's possible to discuss it maturely and fairly. No need to get heated at all.

Yes, some who call themselves Christians use statues as an aid in prayer and meditation. But it is not part of Christianity. Idol worship and praying to statues is expressly forbidden by Judaism, and therefore by Christianity (Christianity is a movement within Judaism--it is the belief that Jesus Christ [Y'eshua Ha Mashiach in Hebrew] is the promised Messiah to the world).

There are parts of the world where Christianity has reached, but only at a surface level. In many of those areas, Christrian teachings are laid over top of old native and pagan beliefs. I spent some time in short term missions near Oaxaca in southern Mexico. This is (on the surface) a very Catholic area. But we were there close to the "Days of the Dead", and all the locals were out putting food and flowers on tombstones, so dead relatives would be appeased and not haunt them the rest of the year.

Many areas that practice Buddhism are the same. If you visit Buddhist shrines in Japan, most will include incense-burning to honor deceased relatives. Buddhism, more than most major religions, adapted to and included many native beliefs wherever it spread. In many parts of the world, Buddhism in practice bears little resemblance to the actual teachings of Siddhartha, who denied the existence of any god.

I can understand the comments of many people you speak with: most Buddhists practice prayer and other things that are not part of the original Buddhist teachings. Still, I hope this serves as an example and a reminder that, when discussing anything of importance (religion, politics, etc), it is important to listen before speaking.

[Kwajman]

I didn't know that christianity was part of judaism.

[Strafio]

The Old Testament is more or less the same as the Jewish equivilant (forgotten what it's called).

They just thought Jesus was a fraud... so they crucified him! :)

[CKava]

In many parts of the world, Buddhism in practice bears little resemblance to the actual teachings of Siddhartha, who denied the existence of any god.
Nice post Capt Ann but this point was slightly wrong. The Buddha never denied the existence of Gods, in fact according to Buddhist scripture he met and held conversations with quite a few of them what he said was that they weren't all that important and that one should not desire to be reborn as one as they too were locked into samsara and hence still subject to the suffering of all impermanent beings.

Personally I think syncreticism in religions isn't that bad for a start it means religions are rarely divisive and secondly the notion of a pure original form of a religion is usually just wishful thinking. I know in the case of early Buddhism that the sangha were involved in a wide variety of practices and the Buddha also did not prohibit lay followers from making offerings to deities and the like.

And dj hunny who cares if some other people think you worship an idol? You can't control how other people judge you so just don't worry about it.

[Trinity]

I was born and raised Buddhist.. :rolleyes:

But i also studied christianity/catholisim/judaism....juss to get a better view of religion...why is it everytime another religion (mostly christian) ask what i am and i say buddhist...the first words (usually) is...Why would you worship an idol???

I don't...i follow a path that buddha found to reach enlightment..(corny as that sounds) but on top of that...i've seen plently of christians/catholics pray to a figure of jesus or the virgin mary....isn't that idol worship..did god not say not to worship idols??? Am i wrong?? Do a majority of buddhist pray to idols...but at the same time don't christians/catholics do the same?

-dj hunny

Im a christian and i do not worship idols (i am not perfect either) but i agree it specificaly says in the bible not to worship idols so christian who do worship idols should not it doesnt matter if they say they need it as a help for worship or some other excuse, Christians should not need an idol. christians should not change the 10 comandments just because it makes thing easier. Also if the christians who tell you that you worship idols, worship idols as well then they are hipocrites (spellcheck).
Also i cant understand how Chistians/catholics can pray to Mary when is says in the bible there is only ONE mediator between god and man JESUS CHRIST lord and saviour.

[Strafio]

So it seems that people who see Christians, but don't really "get" them think Christians are worshipping idols, and people who see Buddhists, who don't really "get" them think Buddhists are worshipping idols...

They sometimes like to accuse each other of being a set of "rules" too. :)

[reikislapper]

Capt Ann,

I have to say something here about the pagan belief as the christain belief also took a lot of our rituals and made them their own to try and turn people from following their path. If they didn't then they were called witches and killed even though they would have been called doctor's if it was modern day now. There was quite a few innocent people killed just because they didn't turn to the christain belief and most of them were innocent. A lot of pagans chose to keep quiet about their belief upto modern day as we were under threat of being in trouble if we didn't. We don't worship idols we worship the aspect of god and goddess which is completely different to an idol, I have always seen Jesus as a prophet in his own right but anything else I have problems with.
Christians even wear crosses with the image of Jesus on isn't that keeping him on the cross even though he left it when he was brought down from there. Since when did he return to the cross as I can't remember reading about it in the bible. I feel that churches are doing wrong when they are out to make money out of innocent people keeping him on the cross for so long. I feel that the church is the worst as they worship somone who's no longer on the cross and they are trying to keep him a prisoner imo as he's supposed to be set free it's just a pity the church hasn't realised it yet.
lisa xx

[Stuart H]

People will always criticise Christianity by pointing the finger at Medieval Catholicism, or American televangelists. The fact is that since the establishment of the Church the Gospel has been misrepresented, misinterpreted or just plain messed with. But one can see throughout history that there remains Christians who have kept the Gospel mesage and Christ's teachings in their true form. These are the people who brought revivals and reformations - these are the people who restored nations.

One can see when true Christianity is present, people are saved, lives restored, hearts mended, communities united, and nations prospering.

[Ferdie]

People will always criticise Christianity by pointing the finger at Medieval Catholicism, or American televangelists. The fact is that since the establishment of the Church the Gospel has been misrepresented, misinterpreted or just plain messed with. But one can see throughout history that there remains Christians who have kept the Gospel mesage and Christ's teachings in their true form. These are the people who brought revivals and reformations - these are the people who restored nations.

One can see when true Christianity is present, people are saved, lives restored, hearts mended, communities united, and nations prospering.
This is very true. Gone are the days when the Catholic Church used extreme methods to spread Christianity. Those extreme methods were simply the norm back in medieval times - be it in a religiously dominated nation or not.

The Catholic Church has a following of 1.5 billion. And there are over 2 billion Christians in total in the world mid 2003. It shouldn't be a surprise that the Gospel would be misrepresented, misinterpreted or just plain messed with.

Fact of the matter is that Christians have been helping a lot of people - be they Christians or not.

As far as "idol" worship is concerned. Catholics do not worship the saints or the Virgin Mary. They are but models of the Church for people to see - no different from the statues of any nation's leaders in their government halls. Much like the misrepresentation of the Bible, a lot of Catholics are just missing the point.

[Davey Bones]

I was born and raised Buddhist.. :rolleyes:

But i also studied christianity/catholisim/judaism....juss to get a better view of religion...why is it everytime another religion (mostly christian) ask what i am and i say buddhist...the first words (usually) is...Why would you worship an idol???

-dj hunny


It's ignorance. And I don't mean the "la la la fingers in the ears I'm right you're wrong" ignorance, I mean it's a true misunderstanding of Buddhism (and most Eastern spiritual paths for that matter). Answer people sincerely; if they give you crap, walk away. If they're truly sincere, they might learn a thing or two ;)

[BendzR]

This is a bit of a tangent, but couldn't resist. One thing I find extremely ironic, that I see all the time...

Christians with crosses around their neck.

When the Jews were worshipping the statue of the golden calf, they were still worshipping the same God, but they used the statue as a way to represent God. Many people think the sin they were commiting was praying to some Cow-god, but really they were sinning in that they were bringing God down the a physical model, and reducing him to the same level as the pagan idols of those days.

Now when you take that into account, it is obvious that reducing God/Jesus' representation down the a physical cross-necklace - even if it is just a reminder - is a sin. (Not to mention, the Cross has been a symbol of death and torture for a long time before Jesus) You don't need to worship ur necklace for it to be wrong according to the Bible.

I've had some funny reactions, when I explained this to some Christian friends/people I know with those necklaces. :D :rolleyes:

[Ferdie]

The golden calf was not made to represent God. The Israelites, seeing that Moses has been gone far too long for their liking, made a golden calf as another god or gods. They committed the sin of worshipping a false god and not the God who drew them out of Egypt. Those people weren't looking for a representation of God but a replacement to Moses' God. That was the sin.

So following your line of analogy, it is not a sin to wear a cross around one's neck (I don't wear one though). We must also add that after Christ's death, the cross has become the symbol of salvation, thus the use of the symbol in places of worship.

[BendzR]

Nope. The calf represented the same God they were still worshipping. The Isrealites weren't that stupid.

I've researched this pretty thoroughly, and even asked a few pastors. I am very sure it was representing the exact same God.

[Edit] Just quickly did more searches on the actual definition of the Golden Calf. There are some sources that say it was representing an Egyption God, and some suggest it was actually intended on representing the same God and same Church they had before.

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/texts/bible/What_is_the_Torah/Exodus/TigayGoldenCalf.htm

Either way, reducing God to a physical object, is a sin. I would imagine the crossnecklace falling into that catagory, agree?

[Ferdie]

Not really. First up, you posted a link of Jewish faith not Christian.

Second, there are various links with different interpretation of the story of the Golden Calf - heck, even different interpretations of the Bible of different Christian following. Here's one from a Catholic site:

http://www.ymcentral.com/pages/questions/angrygod.htm

You would note that the link made mention of the story of the Golden Calf and the idolatry committed in worshipping the Ba'al of Peor. The Ba'al of Peor was definitely not a representation of God but rather of another god. This was the sin the Israelites committed in both accounts: worshipping a false god. It seems too convenient to misconstrue the story of the Golden Calf without taking into consideration the idolatry of the Ba'al of Peor - or of other instances in of such in the Bible. For instance the idol being worshipped by the Pharaoh from whom God brought up the same Israelites that same time.

One of the main reasons for having different Christian followings, if you will, is the interpretation of the Bible. While I'm not in the position to say who has the most accurate interpretation (of course I'm going to say it is the Catholic Church's), it is a fact that all Christians understand that it is only through Faith that we would be saved.

So no, wearing a cross pendant on one's necklace to profess one's faith is not a sin.

[BendzR]

Hmmm how silly of me to think that Jews might know what they're talking about when it comes to Jewish scripture.

[Ferdie]

Hmmm how silly of me to think that Jews might know what they're talking about when it comes to Jewish scripture.

You started by stating the supposedly irony of Christians' wearing of the cross pendant weren't you? It serves best to use the interpretation of the Christian faith rather than the Jews'. Incidentally, I am Catholic & so I can only speak based on Catholic teachings, thus the Catholic link I posted. Read my whole post again, the different Christian followings were brought about by different interpretations. To understand the actions of one community, you must understand their interpretation.

So yes, it was silly of you.

[scottsummers]

I was born and raised Buddhist..

But i also studied christianity/catholisim/judaism....juss to get a better view of religion...why is it everytime another religion (mostly christian) ask what i am and i say buddhist...the first words (usually) is...Why would you worship an idol???

I don't...i follow a path that buddha found to reach enlightment..(corny as that sounds) but on top of that...i've seen plently of christians/catholics pray to a figure of jesus or the virgin mary....isn't that idol worship..did god not say not to worship idols??? Am i wrong?? Do a majority of buddhist pray to idols...but at the same time don't christians/catholics do the same?

-dj hunny
__________________
-first off, I am a Christian but will say most Christians are not very smart and cant support what they believe. To answer your first question they say bhudda is an idol because they are thinking of something that is not the Christian God. Makes sense in logic. Doesnt mean Christians dont have idols like tv or a sports hero or something. They just dont usually recognize them as easy. Catholics usually have a different viewpoint than Christians. I think most of the bad rep Christians get is from the Catholic church although the viewpoints are different. Yes, catholics kind of worship mary because they believe since she was Jesus's mother she is on a higher level than him. Christians though think she was an ordinary woman given an extraordinary task of birthing our savior in human form! I dont believe that mary was anything special myself. Good woman im sure. I dont use words like hail mary or anything because not only do I believe that is idolizing her but i believe it is religious routine, insincere rituals. Plus, if you look at the history of Catholic church abuse and money grubbing and whatnot it is not a very good role model. There are some very few catholics who have a more Christian perspective but I think it is kind of a different branch. If you want your questions answered I would highly suggest you go to marshillchurch.org and go to mp3 then go to sermons and you can hear about comparisons of bhuddism and hinduism and mormonism to christianity and all kinds of topics. It is organized. I highly recommend you do if you have questions because the pastor is very smart and very rational and will back up everything he says. At least listen to one and see what you think.

[Ferdie]

To answer your first question they say bhudda is an idol because they are thinking of something that is not the Christian God. Makes sense in logic. Doesnt mean Christians dont have idols like tv or a sports hero or something. They just dont usually recognize them as easy.

The first sentence is pretty good. Christians would look at other religions' gods as not the same as theirs, and therefore a different idol. For instance, Muslims would look at our God differently. However, you're defining idolizing a sport hero the same as idolizing a god or gods. You're talking apples & oranges. Not pretty good.

Catholics usually have a different viewpoint than Christians. I think most of the bad rep Christians get is from the Catholic church although the viewpoints are different. Yes, catholics kind of worship mary because they believe since she was Jesus's mother she is on a higher level than him. .

Now this is foul right here. First of all, to say the bad reputation that Christians get is from the Catholic Church is a pretty bold statement that can not be validated lest you specify the details of this so-called bad reputation. Just for argument's sake, I could tell you right not that the "Believe-in-our-God-or-you-will-not-be-saved" statement is one that I've only heard from "Born Again" churches such as the one that I attended for a few months in my teens while trying to find answers for some questions about my faith. (I eventually proved that what does save us Christians is our faith - whether you're Methodist, Baptist, Protestant or Catholic - and stopped attending their worship.) I never heard the above line my whole life as a student in any of the Catholic schools I attended. I'm talking from the order of Franciscan monks to the Benedictines. Now, from the posts I've read so far about Christians' bad rep (as you so eloquently stated) is about the very statement that we do not respect the belief of other religions. Funny, even the the late Pope John Paul II never told other religious leaders they would go to hell...

Now on your point about the Virgin Mary, who gave you the idea we Catholics place her on a "higher plane" than that of the Lord Jesus Christ?

Christians though think she was an ordinary woman given an extraordinary task of birthing our savior in human form! I dont believe that mary was anything special myself. Good woman im sure. I dont use words like hail mary or anything because not only do I believe that is idolizing her but i believe it is religious routine, insincere rituals. Plus, if you look at the history of Catholic church abuse and money grubbing and whatnot it is not a very good role model. There are some very few catholics who have a more Christian perspective but I think it is kind of a different branch. If you want your questions answered I would highly suggest you go to marshillchurch.org and go to mp3 then go to sermons and you can hear about comparisons of bhuddism and hinduism and mormonism to christianity and all kinds of topics. It is organized. I highly recommend you do if you have questions because the pastor is very smart and very rational and will back up everything he says. At least listen to one and see what you think.

Hail Mary is a recognition of the Virgin Mary's motherhood of Christ. I haven't read any literature pertaining to positioning her higher than the Lord. We may be treating her as a mother as well, but that's about it. I would admit though that there are Catholic Christians that are missing the point with regard to role models in the church such as saints, but to generalize that all Catholics have no understanding of true faith is very hasty.

Hmm... abuse & money grubbing... My whole life as a Catholic Christian, I was never required to give a percentage of my income to the Church. In fact, living in a third world country for 30 years, there are those who can't even give a cent to the Sunday collection in mass. Did the Catholic Church complain? Did they even call them sinners on that account? Never. Not once. Now, don't go back in history. We're talking about right here, right now. I believe I addressed that issue in one of the threads anyway.

I do not discriminate among the different Christian beliefs / orders / denomination, etc (I don't discriminate, period). We are all Christians. I had to use the term "Catholic Christian" to identify that w/c you criticize in your post from whatever else. If you truly believe that we would be saved through Faith, then you should know that there is no point in attacking any other church - any other religion for that matter.

I know of a lot of Catholics (family & friends) who passed away. They lived a life that is righteous & continuously gave to those who were in need in the community - be they Christians or not. Simply put, they lived a great Christian life. They never converted to any other Christian following so based on your analogy, I guess they're going to hell? I dare say no. They had Faith more than a lot of Christians & they are saved.

Sorry for robbing the thread again.

[scottsummers]

[QUOTE=Ferdie]The first sentence is pretty good. Christians would look at other religions' gods as not the same as theirs, and therefore a different idol. For instance, Muslims would look at our God differently. However, you're defining idolizing a sport hero the same as idolizing a god or gods. You're talking apples & oranges. Not pretty good.

-Unfortunately a lot of Americans care about their sports hero's more than their God. All you have to do is look at where they devote all their time. I need to be careful myself that I dont put martial arts above God because sometimes it is hard for me to read the Bible for an hour but not to look up on the internet martial arts stuff for that same time period. That is my sin.



Now this is foul right here. First of all, to say the bad reputation that Christians get is from the Catholic Church is a pretty bold statement that can not be validated lest you specify the details of this so-called bad reputation.

-I was talking about all the bishops that have raped little boys and the sale of indulgences and pardons(buying your forgiveness of sins and rightness with God).

Just for argument's sake, I could tell you right not that the "Believe-in-our-God-or-you-will-not-be-saved" statement is one that I've only heard from "Born Again" churches such as the one that I attended for a few months in my teens while trying to find answers for some questions about my faith.

-I was listening to a radio broadcast recently and my youth pastor was on their and he used to be a former member of the catholic church. A lady called up breathing hard and basically screamed at him that he had sinned before God since he had joined a different church. Then she said the Catholic Church was the only true church that Jesus started. I dont believe in churches, I believe in God and technically 2 people that are gathered together who believe in God are a church.

(I eventually proved that what does save us Christians is our faith - whether you're Methodist, Baptist, Protestant or Catholic - and stopped attending their worship.)
-yes faith and relationship with God. Even demons believe in Jesus but doesnt mean they follow him. I dont know what you are getting at when you say you stopped attending worship.

I never heard the above line my whole life as a student in any of the Catholic schools I attended. I'm talking from the order of Franciscan monks to the Benedictines.

-You are lucky. All you have to do usually is watch the news or read in the newspaper who got raped. Again not your fault and im not dismissing you are in a good place.

Now, from the posts I've read so far about Christians' bad rep (as you so eloquently stated) is about the very statement that we do not respect the belief of other religions. Funny, even the the late Pope John Paul II never told other religious leaders they would go to hell...

-Unfortunately lots of Christians are very self righteous and usually the ones who are are unknowledgeable and use that power as a way of saying "im better than you".

Now on your point about the Virgin Mary, who gave you the idea we Catholics place her on a "higher plane" than that of the Lord Jesus Christ?

-Most catholics have a statue of Mary and not one of Jesus. Either that or she is above him on the cross at some Cath. churches.

Hail Mary is a recognition of the Virgin Mary's motherhood of Christ. I haven't read any literature pertaining to positioning her higher than the Lord. We may be treating her as a mother as well, but that's about it. I would admit though that there are Catholic Christians that are missing the point with regard to role models in the church such as saints, but to generalize that all Catholics have no understanding of true faith is very hasty.

- I didnt say catholics have no understanding of true faith. And I am not labeling everyone of them. Most of them place their focus on saints or someone else more than Jesus. I have never met a division of the Christian church that is so superstitious. Some wear pendants that think wearing this saint will help you skip purgatory and go straight to heaven or it will do this or that. A girl in my English class who was catholic said she wasnt an organ donor because then she wouldnt be able to come back for the resurrection. I guess she thought God wasnt powerful enough to give her a new body.

Hmm... abuse & money grubbing... My whole life as a Catholic Christian, I was never required to give a percentage of my income to the Church. In fact, living in a third world country for 30 years, there are those who can't even give a cent to the Sunday collection in mass. Did the Catholic Church complain? Did they even call them sinners on that account? Never.

-I think it is due to your location. Its not like this in the US.

Not once. Now, don't go back in history. We're talking about right here, right now. I believe I addressed that issue in one of the threads anyway.

I do not discriminate among the different Christian beliefs / orders / denomination, etc (I don't discriminate, period). We are all Christians. I had to use the term "Catholic Christian" to identify that w/c you criticize in your post from whatever else. If you truly believe that we would be saved through Faith, then you should know that there is no point in attacking any other church - any other religion for that matter.

-I didnt attack them. If there are flaws that are apparent then that is not attacking them. Sometimes I drink too much. No one notices but I will admit it. You can usually notice the things that go on in the Catholic church without being close to it in the US at least.

I know of a lot of Catholics (family & friends) who passed away. They lived a life that is righteous & continuously gave to those who were in need in the community - be they Christians or not.

-As Christians we are supposed to help everyone and love everyone, yes. Giving is good, yes. I help non Christians all the time. As a matter of fact it is easier for me to get along with non Christians and they are usually smarter than Christians.

Simply put, they lived a great Christian life. They never converted to any other Christian following so based on your analogy, I guess they're going to hell? I dare say no. They had Faith more than a lot of Christians & they are saved.

-Make sure you are clear that you know living a good life doesnt get you into heaven. "Not by works, so that no man can boast". I know many people who are very moral and can live their life to help people but If they havent accepted Jesus unfortunately they are going to hell. I never said to convert to a different Christian following. I said most catholics miss the boat because there are a lot of politics in the Cath Church nowadays. Your faith level can be super high but you still have to believe in Jesus and follow him. LIke I said demons know God and they know scripture too but they are in hell. Satan knows scripture and he is.....Satan. :Angel:

Travis

[jroe52]

don't worry about christian idol worshiping, let them worry themselves.

i think all of the religions would agree not to worship false idols (such as government, celeberties, musicians, evil beings)

but at the same time, allow you to worship your own god. if you use a image as a tool to remeber god, that is not an idol. however if you force your beliefs on others or hyprocrit them, then we should take the time to look at ourselves first.

i worship buddha. however i've eaten mushrooms and seen dancing naked buddha girls hehe, and i dont think thats considered idol worshiping either. its in our consiouses, imagery of many beings. if we were blind, would we not have imaginations to idolize?

what is and is not an idol? hehe, all questions not to worry to much about

[Ferdie]

Unfortunately a lot of Americans care about their sports hero's more than their God. All you have to do is look at where they devote all their time. I need to be careful myself that I don’t put martial arts above God because sometimes it is hard for me to read the Bible for an hour but not to look up on the internet martial arts stuff for that same time period. That is my sin.

Now you’ve expanded your scope. It’s a lot of Americans now. How many do you suppose of the Americans who put their sports heroes above God are Christians? That is if they do put them above God. Sports to an audience is entertainment – some may consider the athletes more than that, at w/c point it may become stalking. Sports to athletes is a form of expression. For instance, climbing & martial arts is my life, but that doesn’t mean I put it above God. If anything, I thank God He has given me what I need to be successful in what I do & thank Him for keeping me safe. I admire Tiger Woods, Joe Montana, Michael Jordan & many others, but I don’t put them above God. They are being admired by a lot people because they are extraordinary. Don’t you think they are? Reading the Bible & living according to its teachings are two different things.

I was talking about all the bishops that have raped little boys and the sale of indulgences and pardons(buying your forgiveness of sins and rightness with God).

Ah, now you have specified something. The Catholic Church has 1.5 billion in population. This is an observation of reality: Out of that huge number, you expect all of them to be perfect? I mentioned Pope John Paul II so that we may have an accurate idea of how followers are being led. I mentioned this in another thread, I wouldn’t sound Christian-like if said what I’d do to the priests who rape children (or women for that matter). Islam, for one, is a religion that is criticized because of its extremist faction. A lot of people have started to believe that all Muslims are terrorists. Of all the Muslim friends & acquaintances I have had, none of them were even close to being rude.

Sale of indulgence & pardons. Again, bold statement. I don’t know how you could even prove this. So I guess I could murder someone & pay the Church to save my soul? Where do you get all this?

I was listening to a radio broadcast recently and my youth pastor was on their and he used to be a former member of the catholic church. A lady called up breathing hard and basically screamed at him that he had sinned before God since he had joined a different church. Then she said the Catholic Church was the only true church that Jesus started. I dont believe in churches, I believe in God and technically 2 people that are gathered together who believe in God are a church.

First up, how sure are you the lady on the other line was a real Catholic? If she was, she’s following a very wrong path. Again, not all followers are perfect – in whatever religion or belief. Don’t limit this analogy to Catholics alone.

Yes, people gathered together is in fact a Church. Remember the missionaries? They used to hold mass in an open field. They eventually built a building on it so that they would have a place to gather. It seems illogical to hold a mass of 100 people in a small house because it’s raining outside, don’t you think? Now when you have thousands of followers, where do you gather to celebrate in winter?

yes faith and relationship with God. Even demons believe in Jesus but doesnt mean they follow him. I dont know what you are getting at when you say you stopped attending worship.

I believe you just contradicted yourself here. Faith & relationship w/ God, then you continue w/ demons believing in Jesus but it doesn’t mean they follow him. Faith means you believe. Demons know Jesus but they don’t have Faith in him and therefore they do not believe in him. Faith & demons cannot be related w/ each other.

Worship is the term that church used. What’s yours? Gathering? Fellowship? Semantics. We call ours Eucharistic Mass.

Unfortunately lots of Christians are very self righteous and usually the ones who are are unknowledgeable and use that power as a way of saying "im better than you".

Christians should strive to live a life that is righteous. To be “self-righteous” is not a Christian trait – be it Catholic, Protestant, Church of Christ, or what have you.

Most catholics have a statue of Mary and not one of Jesus. Either that or she is above him on the cross at some Cath. churches.

Really? I’ve seen huge statues of the Virgin Mary but not one w/o a statue of Jesus. Her statue above the cross at some Catholic Churches? Now you’re bordering into fantasy. Maybe you saw the Pieta? It depicts Mother Mary weeping on the cold body of Jesus Christ after he was brought down from the cross? I’m not sure what you mean about a statue above the cross. Shelving perhaps?

I didnt say catholics have no understanding of true faith. And I am not labeling everyone of them. Most of them place their focus on saints or someone else more than Jesus.

You didn’t literally, but you post observations about their practices & then follow up w/ condescending statements placing them into a position that doesn’t represent true Faith. Such as:

I have never met a division of the Christian church that is so superstitious. Some wear pendants that think wearing this saint will help you skip purgatory and go straight to heaven or it will do this or that.

Again, where’d you get this idea? I have a pendant of St. Benedict given to me as a gift by a Benedictine monk. I don’t wear it but I also don’t think I’d go to heaven by having it.

A girl in my English class who was catholic said she wasnt an organ donor because then she wouldnt be able to come back for the resurrection. I guess she thought God wasnt powerful enough to give her a new body.

Some deductive reasoning there. Why would you take the word of a girl in you English class about something ridiculous to be a representation of what is being Christian? (Note: not just Catholic, but Christian) Which reminds me, I have to get an organ donor card. I live too much on the edge, really.

I think it is due to your location. Its not like this in the US.

I am in the US. I moved here 4 years ago. Of all the churches I’ve attended mass here, none of them demanded or even required us to put money in the collection basket that they pass around. And yes, I try to follow current events as far as the Catholic Church is concerned.

I didnt attack them. If there are flaws that are apparent then that is not attacking them. Sometimes I drink too much. No one notices but I will admit it. You can usually notice the things that go on in the Catholic church without being close to it in the US at least.

Flaws that are apparent to you, but not to Catholics. Let Catholics deal with their own problems & others deal with theirs. You want to contribute to changes in the Catholic Church? Be a Catholic. Read Jroe's post. You could learn a thing or two.


As Christians we are supposed to help everyone and love everyone, yes. Giving is good, yes. I help non Christians all the time. As a matter of fact it is easier for me to get along with non Christians and they are usually smarter than Christians.

So what’s this suppose to mean?

Make sure you are clear that you know living a good life doesnt get you into heaven. "Not by works, so that no man can boast".

All of my posts here so far specifically stated that Faith would save us. Having faith would lead you to live a great life, so you don’t really need to quote, “Not by works, so that no man can boast.” Do I have to be a pastor for you to realize I’ve been saying Faith all the time & not deeds?

I know many people who are very moral and can live their life to help people but If they havent accepted Jesus unfortunately they are going to hell.

Now this is what I meant about Christians saying, “Believe in our Savior or you will perish in hell.” You just have to prove my point, don’t you? Faith bridges all religions. You’ve just told everyone in public that your Faith is better than any other’s. Good job.

I never said to convert to a different Christian following. I said most catholics miss the boat because there are a lot of politics in the Cath Church nowadays. Your faith level can be super high but you still have to believe in Jesus and follow him. LIke I said demons know God and they know scripture too but they are in hell. Satan knows scripture and he is.....Satan.

Again, Faith is belief & belief leads to following. You’re the one who seems to have missed the ship. Politics in ANY church is a different topic. It has nothing to do w/ the Faith of those who truly believe in God.

[scottsummers]

[QUOTE=Ferdie]Now you’ve expanded your scope. It’s a lot of Americans now. How many do you suppose of the Americans who put their sports heroes above God are Christians?
-tons

That is if they do put them above God. Sports to an audience is entertainment – some may consider the athletes more than that, at w/c point it may become stalking. Sports to athletes is a form of expression. For instance, climbing & martial arts is my life, but that doesn’t mean I put it above God.

-you just said it is your life. Perhaps you do put it above God. Seriously, think about it. Whats the first commandment?

If anything, I thank God He has given me what I need to be successful in what I do & thank Him for keeping me safe.
-me too
I admire Tiger Woods, Joe Montana, Michael Jordan & many others, but I don’t put them above God. They are being admired by a lot people because they are extraordinary.
-nothing extraordinary about men

Don’t you think they are? Reading the Bible & living according to its teachings are two different things.

-they shouldnt be. The Bible should be a manual not a novel



Ah, now you have specified something. The Catholic Church has 1.5 billion in population. This is an observation of reality: Out of that huge number, you expect all of them to be perfect?

-no I dont. Christians of all denominations aren't perfect. They have a higher divorce rate than non Christians and some sin more.

I mentioned Pope John Paul II so that we may have an accurate idea of how followers are being led. I mentioned this in another thread, I wouldn’t sound Christian-like if said what I’d do to the priests who rape children (or women for that matter). Islam, for one, is a religion that is criticized because of its extremist faction. A lot of people have started to believe that all Muslims are terrorists. Of all the Muslim friends & acquaintances I have had, none of them were even close to being rude.

-you are kinda going off topic. Remember I said not all catholics are the same. Not all Christians are the same. Im not afraid to say many Christians live pathetic lives and since I am a Christian i get put in that category.

Sale of indulgence & pardons. Again, bold statement. I don’t know how you could even prove this.
-Very very easily. For hundreds of years this has happened. Surf the internet and do some reading.

So I guess I could murder someone & pay the Church to save my soul? Where do you get all this?
-not necessarily. There were catholic Bishops at one time who said the only way their sins could be forgiven was through purchasing indulgences



First up, how sure are you the lady on the other line was a real Catholic?

-she said she was. If she lied that would be kind of weird. I dont see the logic.

If she was, she’s following a very wrong path.
-yep
Again, not all followers are perfect – in whatever religion or belief. Don’t limit this analogy to Catholics alone.
-so you want me to bring up other religions now so you dont feel singled out?

Yes, people gathered together is in fact a Church. Remember the missionaries? They used to hold mass in an open field. They eventually built a building on it so that they would have a place to gather. It seems illogical to hold a mass of 100 people in a small house because it’s raining outside, don’t you think?
-because its raining outside? What are you talking about? What if they were in a church and it was raining outside, whats the difference? I never disputed there was anything wrong about churches.

Now when you have thousands of followers, where do you gather to celebrate in winter?

-is this a set up for a joke?



I believe you just contradicted yourself here. Faith & relationship w/ God, then you continue w/ demons believing in Jesus but it doesn’t mean they follow him. Faith means you believe. Demons know Jesus but they don’t have Faith in him and therefore they do not believe in him. Faith & demons cannot be related w/ each other.

-absolutely so. There are numerous examples in the Bible when demon possessed people cried out when Jesus was around that he was God. Here is just one example and there are many others. A belief that will not accept and do all that God tells us to do is not enough. If this is the case, then we are no better than the demons in James 2:19, "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe and tremble!"


Worship is the term that church used. What’s yours? Gathering? Fellowship? Semantics. We call ours Eucharistic Mass.
-why is this important? Remember, i am not better than you, you are a fellow believer and you are my equal.



Christians should strive to live a life that is righteous. To be “self-righteous” is not a Christian trait – be it Catholic, Protestant, Church of Christ, or what have you.
-yeah, unfortunately this is a very small percentage that is actually humble.



Really? I’ve seen huge statues of the Virgin Mary but not one w/o a statue of Jesus. Her statue above the cross at some Catholic Churches? Now you’re bordering into fantasy.
-I saw it at a Catholic church i went to. Maybe it was just that one church.

Maybe you saw the Pieta? It depicts Mother Mary weeping on the cold body of Jesus Christ after he was brought down from the cross? I’m not sure what you mean about a statue above the cross. Shelving perhaps?

-could be



You didn’t literally, but you post observations about their practices & then follow up w/ condescending statements placing them into a position that doesn’t represent true Faith. Such as:



Again, where’d you get this idea? I have a pendant of St. Benedict given to me as a gift by a Benedictine monk. I don’t wear it but I also don’t think I’d go to heaven by having it.

-good, doesnt apply to you



Some deductive reasoning there. Why would you take the word of a girl in you English class about something ridiculous to be a representation of what is being Christian?
- i didnt take it to heart for me to follow but she said she was a catholic and that was her belief

(Note: not just Catholic, but Christian) Which reminds me, I have to get an organ donor card. I live too much on the edge, really.



I am in the US. I moved here 4 years ago. Of all the churches I’ve attended mass here, none of them demanded or even required us to put money in the collection basket that they pass around. And yes, I try to follow current events as far as the Catholic Church is concerned.

-I will not argue



Flaws that are apparent to you, but not to Catholics. Let Catholics deal with their own problems & others deal with theirs.

-hopefully the ones who need it will. It can be other people's business if they are getting taken advantage of financially or physically.

You want to contribute to changes in the Catholic Church? Be a Catholic. Read Jroe's post. You could learn a thing or two.

-Im fine how i am.




So what’s this suppose to mean?



All of my posts here so far specifically stated that Faith would save us. Having faith would lead you to live a great life, so you don’t really need to quote, “Not by works, so that no man can boast.” Do I have to be a pastor for you to realize I’ve been saying Faith all the time & not deeds?

-i said make sure you dont just have good works because you sounded enamored by your friend's good works.



Now this is what I meant about Christians saying, “Believe in our Savior or you will perish in hell.” You just have to prove my point, don’t you?

-i said that if you dont believe in God you will go to the default place because that is what I believe. I didnt say burn in hell yuppie scum or immoral scumbag.

Faith bridges all religions. You’ve just told everyone in public that your Faith is better than any other’s. Good job.

-I didnt, you made that assumption. That is what I believe though is that Jesus is the final authority on everything and nothing stands up to him or his word. Whether you believe in Jesus or not doesnt change how things are. Philip. 2:9-11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: [10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; [11] And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Also, thanks for the good job.





Again, Faith is belief & belief leads to following. You’re the one who seems to have missed the ship.
-if I am following Jesus I am on the right ship and will continue to be

Politics in ANY church is a different topic. It has nothing to do w/ the Faith of those who truly believe in God.

-you must believe and worship him, not just believe. Many non Christians believe that there is a God.

[Ferdie]

-tons

-nothing extraordinary about men.
You don't like watching or doing sports, do you?
you just said it is your life. Perhaps you do put it above God. Seriously, think about it. Whats the first commandment?.
God led me to this kind of life. Seriously, think about it. Stop twisting words & their meanings. Think outside the box, Travis. God gave me the talents to use what I know to help others.
-they shouldnt be. The Bible should be a manual not a novel.
You may have the manual but if you don't follow the manual, it wouldn't help much, right? Just like when my father-in-law tried to fix the dishwasher. Again stop twisting words & meanings.
--no I dont. Christians of all denominations aren't perfect. They have a higher divorce rate than non Christians and some sin more..
So now you're equating divorce w/ sin? Stop digging a deeper hole.
-you are kinda going off topic. Remember I said not all catholics are the same. Not all Christians are the same. Im not afraid to say many Christians live pathetic lives and since I am a Christian i get put in that category.
No, I'm not. I used a leader to set the standard & not a follower. I was simply explaining the point on how a few rotten apples tend to spoil the whole basket.
-Very very easily. For hundreds of years this has happened. Surf the internet and do some reading.
Let's not go around in circles. I already said in my previous post let's not bring up history. Too many issues to talk about: norms of society during medieval times, misinterpretations, etc. We're talking the Church right here, right now. And yes, I've done my share of reading. I studied all my life in Catholic schools, remember? Oh and don't rely on the internet too much. There are a lot of trolls around, you know. Almost anyone could build a site. :)
-not necessarily. There were catholic Bishops at one time who said the only way their sins could be forgiven was through purchasing indulgences.
History again? Then again, "at one time" is not valid. Give the specific time, era, conditions. Hear say? Oh, you know what? Don't even bother researching. I'm gonna be done with this in awhile anyway. But then again, just so you'd know, I never really considered Pope Leo X to be a real Pope. He should have been excommunicated. He caused the faith of the followers to be at its lowest during his time. It even took the Reformation to correct this huge mistake of the Church.
-she said she was. If she lied that would be kind of weird. I dont see the logic.
The statement was made for the sake of argument. I could call up the radio station & sound like an extremist.
-so you want me to bring up other religions now so you dont feel singled out?.
Read all your posts here so far. You've always used references to the Catholic Church and how our practices are not in accordance w/ the Bible. Do I feel singled out? A bit. Oh, and you don't have to bring up other religions because you already did by saying previously they'd all go to hell.
-because its raining outside? What are you talking about? What if they were in a church and it was raining outside, whats the difference? I never disputed there was anything wrong about churches.
-is this a set up for a joke?
No, now you're sounding like a joke. YOU were the one who brought up the argument of a church being a building. Let me refresh your memory:
-Then she said the Catholic Church was the only true church that Jesus started. I dont believe in churches, I believe in God and technically 2 people that are gathered together who believe in God are a church.?
If you weren't referring to the church as a building, I must be losing comprehension. I merely tried to show you a picture why building a physical church is necessary. I did type prior that I do agree a church is constituted by people & not by a building. Do me a favor, if you're going to rebut sections of my post, make sure you take one section's idea into consideration. There's a reason why the posts are grouped into paragraphs.
-absolutely so. There are numerous examples in the Bible when demon possessed people cried out when Jesus was around that he was God. Here is just one example and there are many others. A belief that will not accept and do all that God tells us to do is not enough. If this is the case, then we are no better than the demons in James 2:19, "You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe and tremble!".
Again, as a Christian, you do not consider demons to be believing in God. Your use of verses in the Bible using the word "believe" w/ regard to this argument is a misconstruance (is that even a word?). My reference of belief is that of originating from Faith. The demon's belief in your verse is that of originating from fear from the almighty God: "Even the demons BELIEVE AND TREMBLE."
-why is this important? Remember, i am not better than you, you are a fellow believer and you are my equal.
Hold on. You're the one who said you didn't understand what I meant about stopped attending worship. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I apologize. When I found out there wasn't any difference in the other church I went to, I stopped attending their service.
I just gave you the different terminologies different divisions use in their celebration. How'd you get into the "we're equal" statement? Of course we are under the eyes of God.
-yeah, unfortunately this is a very small percentage that is actually humble.
You must have really proud Christian friends. Have faith in your brothers, brother.
-I saw it at a Catholic church i went to. Maybe it was just that one church.
Maybe. It would help a lot to really observe more before making statements in public.
-good, doesnt apply to you.
Nope. It doesn't apply to a lot of Catholics.
- i didnt take it to heart for me to follow but she said she was a catholic and that was her belief.
You didn't take it to heart & yet you used it in your argument, anyway?
hopefully the ones who need it will. It can be other people's business if they are getting taken advantage of financially or physically.
There you go again w/ the financial or physical abuse. Travis, the Catholic Church does not require us to give money. It just so happens that we are faithful enough that we do donate gladly w/o question when we can. Physical, again they're an exception more than the rule.
-Im fine how i am..
Good. Then understand that this forum is participated in by different individuals with different convictions.
-i said make sure you dont just have good works because you sounded enamored by your friend's good works.
No. Read my post again, it was very objective. I just so happens that w/ that particular argument, I have to use examples of those I know.
--i said that if you dont believe in God you will go to the default place because that is what I believe. I didnt say burn in hell yuppie scum or immoral scumbag.
Of course you didn't:
--I know many people who are very moral and can live their life to help people but If they havent accepted Jesus unfortunately they are going to hell.
:rolleyes: By the way, I never read of a "default place" in the Bible. Where's the verse for that?
I didnt, you made that assumption. That is what I believe though is that Jesus is the final authority on everything and nothing stands up to him or his word. Whether you believe in Jesus or not doesnt change how things are. Philip. 2:9-11 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: [10] That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; [11] And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Also, thanks for the good job.
:rolleyes: And this means?... Look at your post above once more.
if I am following Jesus I am on the right ship and will continue to be.
Good for you.
-you must believe and worship him, not just believe. Many non Christians believe that there is a God.
Right. And according to the examples you've given in your posts, I guess those non Christians who believe there is a God are demons, huh? Shoot! I've got a lot demonic friends!
I'm done with this, I gotta go spar w/ some demons in a while.

[scottsummers]

[QUOTE=Ferdie]You don't like watching or doing sports, do you?

God led me to this kind of life. Seriously, think about it. Stop twisting words & their meanings. Think outside the box, Travis. God gave me the talents to use what I know to help others.

You may have the manual but if you don't follow the manual, it wouldn't help much, right? Just like when my father-in-law tried to fix the dishwasher. Again stop twisting words & meanings.

So now you're equating divorce w/ sin? Stop digging a deeper hole.

No, I'm not. I used a leader to set the standard & not a follower. I was simply explaining the point on how a few rotten apples tend to spoil the whole basket.

Let's not go around in circles. I already said in my previous post let's not bring up history. Too many issues to talk about: norms of society during medieval times, misinterpretations, etc. We're talking the Church right here, right now. And yes, I've done my share of reading. I studied all my life in Catholic schools, remember? Oh and don't rely on the internet too much. There are a lot of trolls around, you know. Almost anyone could build a site. :)

History again? Then again, "at one time" is not valid. Give the specific time, era, conditions. Hear say? Oh, you know what? Don't even bother researching. I'm gonna be done with this in awhile anyway. But then again, just so you'd know, I never really considered Pope Leo X to be a real Pope. He should have been excommunicated. He caused the faith of the followers to be at its lowest during his time. It even took the Reformation to correct this huge mistake of the Church.

The statement was made for the sake of argument. I could call up the radio station & sound like an extremist.

Read all your posts here so far. You've always used references to the Catholic Church and how our practices are not in accordance w/ the Bible. Do I feel singled out? A bit. Oh, and you don't have to bring up other religions because you already did by saying previously they'd all go to hell.

No, now you're sounding like a joke. YOU were the one who brought up the argument of a church being a building. Let me refresh your memory:

If you weren't referring to the church as a building, I must be losing comprehension. I merely tried to show you a picture why building a physical church is necessary. I did type prior that I do agree a church is constituted by people & not by a building. Do me a favor, if you're going to rebut sections of my post, make sure you take one section's idea into consideration. There's a reason why the posts are grouped into paragraphs.

Again, as a Christian, you do not consider demons to be believing in God. Your use of verses in the Bible using the word "believe" w/ regard to this argument is a misconstruance (is that even a word?). My reference of belief is that of originating from Faith. The demon's belief in your verse is that of originating from fear from the almighty God: "Even the demons BELIEVE AND TREMBLE."

Hold on. You're the one who said you didn't understand what I meant about stopped attending worship. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. I apologize. When I found out there wasn't any difference in the other church I went to, I stopped attending their service.
I just gave you the different terminologies different divisions use in their celebration. How'd you get into the "we're equal" statement? Of course we are under the eyes of God.

You must have really proud Christian friends. Have faith in your brothers, brother.

Maybe. It would help a lot to really observe more before making statements in public.

Nope. It doesn't apply to a lot of Catholics.

You didn't take it to heart & yet you used it in your argument, anyway?

There you go again w/ the financial or physical abuse. Travis, the Catholic Church does not require us to give money. It just so happens that we are faithful enough that we do donate gladly w/o question when we can. Physical, again they're an exception more than the rule.

Good. Then understand that this forum is participated in by different individuals with different convictions.

No. Read my post again, it was very objective. I just so happens that w/ that particular argument, I have to use examples of those I know.

Of course you didn't:

:rolleyes: By the way, I never read of a "default place" in the Bible. Where's the verse for that?

:rolleyes: And this means?... Look at your post above once more.

Good for you.

Right. And according to the examples you've given in your posts, I guess those non Christians who believe there is a God are demons, huh? Shoot! I've got a lot demonic friends!
I'm done with this, I gotta go spar w/ some demons in a while.

-no i didnt say that. You are twisting my words. I said that you can be a non Christian and believe in God but doesnt mean you serve him or have a relationship with him. I can see this is going nowhere as you dont really understand what I am saying when I back it up with proof. Not only that but you make jokes about serious stuff. The spiritual realm really isnt that much of a joke. You seem to continue to bring things up that I "assume" about your character or friends that I never mentioned. I have seen spirits and all that and its not really much of a joke. I read my Bible everyday and test my doctrine to see if it is right. I talk to a pastor on the phone every night too. Maybe you should get into your Bible a little more to make sure you know what it is saying.

[jroe52]

worry about ourselves, if your a catholic be a good catholic. if your a buddhist be a good buddhist.

however, along the way by being "good" can in no possible way mean harming others. So in those regards, all religions have the abilitities to do good. it is the user of the religion, not the religion itself that often is the problem.

[scottsummers]

[QUOTE=jroe52]worry about ourselves, if your a catholic be a good catholic. if your a buddhist be a good buddhist.

however, along the way by being "good" can in no possible way mean harming others. So in those regards, all religions have the abilitities to do good. it is the user of the religion, not the religion itself that often is the problem.

-Definitely! Even if you dont agree or believe in other religions it is the individual that counts. And it is easy to recognize good people.

[Ferdie]

no i didnt say that. You are twisting my words. I said that you can be a non Christian and believe in God but doesnt mean you serve him or have a relationship with him. I can see this is going nowhere as you dont really understand what I am saying when I back it up with proof. Not only that but you make jokes about serious stuff. The spiritual realm really isnt that much of a joke. You seem to continue to bring things up that I "assume" about your character or friends that I never mentioned. I have seen spirits and all that and its not really much of a joke. I read my Bible everyday and test my doctrine to see if it is right. I talk to a pastor on the phone every night too. Maybe you should get into your Bible a little more to make sure you know what it is saying.

In the last paragraph of my post, in a way, I was twisting your words. Just giving you a taste of you own medicine. Forgive me, I'm just like that. Someone gives me a knee shot, I give them the same. Try to disarm me, I'll disarm you first (very un-Christian like, btw). But the points I was trying to raise are all well meant - even if I interject a punchline or two in between. The bottom line is, any person w/ their convictions intact would not back down from any challenge, thus, if both people have strong beliefs, no one would win.

I could see (well, read is more like it) that you have great faith. Keep that faith but understand that because of that faith you could go through life influencing others w/o even trying. Stop looking at others & then judge them based on how they do not do things according to your liking or according to what was taught you.

We all have different beliefs. It serves best to respect the beliefs & practices of others - be they religious or not. As long as they are not hurting anyone & living a life that is not detrimental to society, they're cool with me. :)

[scottsummers]

In the last paragraph of my post, in a way, I was twisting your words. Just giving you a taste of you own medicine. Forgive me, I'm just like that. Someone gives me a knee shot, I give them the same. Try to disarm me, I'll disarm you first (very un-Christian like, btw). But the points I was trying to raise are all well meant - even if I interject a punchline or two in between. The bottom line is, any person w/ their convictions intact would not back down from any challenge, thus, if both people have strong beliefs, no one would win.

I could see (well, read is more like it) that you have great faith. Keep that faith but understand that because of that faith you could go through life influencing others w/o even trying. Stop looking at others & then judge them based on how they do not do things according to your liking or according to what was taught you.

We all have different beliefs. It serves best to respect the beliefs & practices of others - be they religious or not. As long as they are not hurting anyone & living a life that is not detrimental to society, they're cool with me. :)

-sounds good!