info wanted about hapkido

[Hades]

what exactly is hapkido? this sport was recommended to me by another MAP member... and well, this thread might allready exist, and it might be a stupid thing to ask...

i am looking into becoming a cop... and i'm looking for a MA for defending myself in those nasty situations a cop can get into... i've been doing boxing for over 2 years now, and i've done 6 months of kickboxing/muay thai... so i'm quiet familiar with MA... but allways exploring the boundaries...
anyway, hapkido was recommended to me... and i would like to know more about the origines, and the techniques...

thanx in advance

[Korpy]

Hapkido is not a sport.

If you want a sport eitheer take Taekwondo, Karate, or Judo.

Hapkido is a straight up, tough form of self defence.

You learn joint locks, pressure points, hard strikes, and other techniques.

I just started taking it this week.

It's the greatest, I reccomend it to anyone wanting a complete self defence system. :)

[Korpy]

Here's a brief intro to its history.

It started in Buddhism and monks learned it long ago. Then it became a martial art for ancient warriors I believe.

Then in the 1900's it was brought into mainstream.

It is very good for self defence if you ever get into a street fight, or a bar fight.

[Hades]

well... like i said... i'm thinking about joining the police force... and i wanna learn a second MA so i can defend myself properly... I know the police academie does include self defense techniques, but i want to be a step ahead... personally i haven't much trust in judo and aikido (that's what they mostly learn in the force) it's too.... soft imo... not convincing enough...

@korpy.. you have anymore info about the techniques itself?

[Korpy]

Trust me, it's awesome. I'm sore as heck, and I've only had 2 lessons, they train you well. Go find a studio and check out a Hapkido class.

[American HKD]

Here's a brief intro to its history.

It started in Buddhism and monks learned it long ago. Then it became a martial art for ancient warriors I believe.

Then in the 1900's it was brought into mainstream.

It is very good for self defence if you ever get into a street fight, or a bar fight.

Greetings

It's great you love HKD, I suggest you go and reseach it's real history, it has little to do with buddism and warrior monks.

It was developed from Japanese Aiki-Jujutsu and other Korean arts like TaeKyon kicking and other sources.

A good link is http://www.sinmoohapkido.com/history.html

[Korpy]

Actually it did originally come from Buddhism, but became known in the 1900's.

http://www.martial-way.com/hapkido.html

[iron_ox]

Actually it did originally come from Buddhism, but became known in the 1900's.

http://www.martial-way.com/hapkido.html

Young sir,

Although I admire your use of a link to back up your claim, it is never the less incorrect.

Hapkido is an art created from the effort of Dojunim Choi, Yong Sul - born 1899, died 1986. He was raised in Japan from a young age and returned to Korea in 1943. He began to teach what he would call Hapkido in 1947 in Taegu City, South Korea.

Dojunim Choi's most well known and probably most prolific student was Grandmaster Ji, Han Jae - from which 90 - 95% of all the world's Hapkido comes from - including the instruction done at your dojang, T-USA.

Congratulations on starting Hapkido, but please remember that there are a few of us around that might have done a tad more research on certain subjects relating to the art than you. I say this with the greatest humility.

[Alexander]

Actually Korpy, Iron Ox is correct. The Korean arts tend to be the main culprits for claiming fake histories. Tae Kwon Do, for example, was really developed as a way of modifying Shotokan Karate to take out Japanese elements and infuse it with the few surviving Korean elements. But no nationalist really wants to admit this considering the Japanese occupation of Korea. Hapkido is very similar.

Hapkido - although it probably could make some unverifyible claim to a long history is descendended from precisely where Iron Ox claims it is. This is why it has such a strong resemblance to Aikido.

i'm thinking about joining the police force...

O.k on one hand Hapkido will probably great to supplement Muay Thai and Boxing as it contains basic throws, joint locks and takedowns as well as having a wide arsenal of kicks. However there is a major point you need to bear in mind: Hapkido relies on pain compliance to force the opponent down - it targets pressure points and potential bone breaks to takedown someone. Now this may not be the best thing for a police officer (I may be talking bo**ocks here, if so let me know) because the press constantly bombards us with images of police officers getting done for excessive violence towards criminals.

By contrast Aikido does not do this - but re-directs the opponents force using technique that has been honed to, quite literally, perfection. So this may be more suited for the police.

However, having said that Aikido will take, in my opinion tens years at the minimum to master though its particular benefit may be greater in the case of a police officer. Hapkido takes far less time but is a bit more brutal.

Hope that helps,
Alexander

[American HKD]

Actually it did originally come from Buddhism, but became known in the 1900's.

http://www.martial-way.com/hapkido.html

Greetings

This is a made up version, again go and read from the link I said before.

[mateo]

I have trained a number of police officers Korean hapkido and all have been happy with the type of training we do. However I think that at some point or another I gave them all special lessons on how to apply traditional techniques most appropriately to their work setting.

I think as instructors of hapkido we are usually looking for the most expedient way diffusing a situation rather than applying a model of "reasonable use of force". A police officer must take into account not only what technique is most efficient but also how the use of such a technique will be perceived by others.

Conditions of environment play an appropriate role as well. Many lay teachers instructing officers on a casual basis do not take into account the manner in which one's belt restricts movement, the necessity of using stances and entries which do not expose one's weapon to an opponent and the possibility of firearms etc. getting free if one is tussling about in ground work.

I think if you could find a teacher who has worked with law enforcement before you may find the training more appropriate to your specific needs. Ask your fellow officers where others train there is usually a club where many of them train. This type of school may have a very appropriate orientation and the opportunity to work out with like minded people sharing the same goals.

That having been said I think judo and aikido are very appropriate choices for the law enforcement officer whereas say Muay Thai, a very effective martial art, may not be the most appropriate to the job. Bernie Lau also made a defensive tactics video that, while suffering from being dated, is of interest to the working officer. Loren Christenson (sp) wrote a book called "Beyond Defensive Tactics" which also brought some interesting ideas to light for me (eg. Why officers should avoid putting chokes on people regardless of the fact that on the surface they seem some of the most appropriate techniques to the job. )

Robert Koga, who wrote the Defensive Tactics books used by the LAPD for decades, based his system on a combination of aikido and judo. He also has a video tape series called "Practical Aikido" from Blackbelt Magazine which is very appropriate for law enforcement.

Interesting many of the changes he made to the system from traditional aikido are things already employed in Korean Hapkido. Hapkido is a good way to go but IMO the teacher is more important than the system in the end.

I'm a 20 year practitioner of hapkido under a teacher who was a student of the founder, who has trained for some years both in Korea and Japan. I have to also say that older histories of the art tend to attempt to show lineage leading back to Buddhist temples in Korea and claim a completely Korean origin and such. This seems not to be the case when further research is done and the role of Choi Yong Sul studying aikijujutsu and the like comes to light. We can't blame people for reading things and believing them to true, though. Scratching a little deeper does however provide a clearer and more coherent picture that does cast connections of the bulk of the hapkido system to ancient Korean martial arts into a dubious light.

"American Hapkido" and others seem to have the goods there.

[Hades]

luckily... in Holland firearms are restricted... and well... bone-breaking techniques... i think you can always decide how far you are going to hold the technique... i guess you can always stop before the bone snaps..??

or am i plain ignorant:P

[Alexander]

luckily... in Holland firearms are restricted... and well... bone-breaking techniques... i think you can always decide how far you are going to hold the technique... i guess you can always stop before the bone snaps..??

or am i plain ignorant:P

Obviously you are right, and I forgot to mention earlier that my instructor actually teaches the police so it can be used effectively. But I just thought you might want to bear in mind that Hapkido is reliant (mostly) on pain compliance whereas Aikido tends not to be so orientated around this (though there still are some very nasty moves that can be done).

Just a point to bear in mind,
Alexander

[Thomas]

Here's a good article from MAP's own archive: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/magazine/styles/hapkido1.htm

Persoanlly I find that Hapkido has a round blend of skills which can be applied at various levels of force... making it a good system for law enforcement (and school teachers). My advice would be to check out the local school, try it for a few lessons, and discuss your objectives with the instructor as far as police defensive tactics go. Good luck

[zac_duncan]

You can certainly stop before you break the joint, and IMO, hapkido isn't entirely about pain complaince either. HKD, I think, at it's base contains a lot of balance control techniques which are suplemented with a joint lock to either, throw, takedown or arrest/control.

Personally, I think that yeah HKD could be very good for a police officer to study, but the art seems to vary so widely from school to school, practitioner to practioner that you might not learn anything worthwhile. You'll have to go and visit the school(s) in your area and determine if they look like something you could use.

With your MA background, you should be able to guage the effectiveness of the instruction and whether you see it as applicable. I suggest you try to resist some of the techniques they demostrate. Some HKD practitioners, sadly, can't work with a resiting opponent. Some can.

[wild_pitch]

In addition to what Thomas has just posted.

At our school my instructor will often teach different levels of pain that can be delivered with the same technique.

i.e. if he is your friend you cover the wrist a little with your hand and it will just hurt alot. if not just hold the hand without covering the wrist and you are going to mess his arm up royally.

essentially you can kind of effect the level of pain delivered.

[Hades]

i'm getting some really useful stuff... thanx guys... anymore comments? keep 'em coming

[Hades]

hapkido sounds like a really cool and usefull MA... problem is: hardly any Dutch schools... :( but the MA sounds really great... and as for the probably excessive force... well.... if you practice judo or aikido, you can also throw somebody, and let him hit the groudn way too hard... or but that hold just a little more tighter round his neck or wrist.... imo..

trhanx though

[dngrruss]

I have trained many law enforcement officers at my school over the years. i currently have 2 active and 3 training officers on my roster. they have found the system not only compliments what they hhttp://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=508418#
Moreave either learned in academy or the street, but allows them to control situations easier and more efficiently.

Sadly, I have also found that law enforcement officers are less likely to stay the course and absorb long-term training. Often they don't want to work hard and get too caught up in the idea that their gun will save them in all situations. The ones who stay the longest either have had their butts handed to them in a fight situation, or trained extensively before they became officers.

Just my 2 cents...

[powerof0ne]

luckily... in Holland firearms are restricted... and well... bone-breaking techniques... i think you can always decide how far you are going to hold the technique... i guess you can always stop before the bone snaps..??

or am i plain ignorant:P

drr..I just now noticed you're in Holland, you lucky SOB..you have some of the world's best kickboxing/muay thai gyms to train at! How I envy you..
To put in my 2 cents, there is good hapkido and bad hapkido..the same goes for any martial art. So don't automatically assume that every hapkido school is going to be good..unfortunately some of the TKD schools that guarantee you a black belt for $ also teach "hapkido".
Judo is great stuff and I'm curious to why you're cautious of it? If it's Kodokan Judo it's probably good since Kodokan has strict grading requirements. I do somewhat agree with you on Aikido but as someone else posted Aikido takes a while(5-10 years?)to really be able to apply.
My year or so I wasted on doing Aikido came to a hault because the fellow teaching asked me to throw a roundhouse kick to his head while he demonstrated a defense for it..which is very easy to do, right? Well, on the first time I had to pull back my kick otherwise I would have hit him than he asks me to do it again and he isn't able to defend and I kicked him to the temple and he fell down. I never showed up to Aikido again after this but I did check out other Aikido schools in my area that all seemed to be about the same..too bad.
One thing we should all realise is that the Aikido/Aikijitsu people usually discredit the Hapkido history of coming from Sokaku Takeda's Daito Ryu. I do think that some of Hapkido is similar but also different in application. The major obvious difference between Aikido and Aikijitsu in application is that Aikido tends to focus on a bigger circle when applying locks/takedowns/throws and Aikijitsu utilizes a more smaller to almost non-existent circle.

[powerof0ne]

I have trained many law enforcement officers at my school over the years. i currently have 2 active and 3 training officers on my roster. they have found the system not only compliments what they hhttp://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/newreply.php?do=newreply&noquote=1&p=508418#
Moreave either learned in academy or the street, but allows them to control situations easier and more efficiently.

Sadly, I have also found that law enforcement officers are less likely to stay the course and absorb long-term training. Often they don't want to work hard and get too caught up in the idea that their gun will save them in all situations. The ones who stay the longest either have had their butts handed to them in a fight situation, or trained extensively before they became officers.

Just my 2 cents...

The 2 martial arts I have trained in for the longest period of time with police/u.s. marshalls/d.e.a. agents has been in BJJ and Muay Thai. Meaning they spent anywhere from 3 to 8+ years and are still training. Of course I have trained with them in Karate and many other martial arts but like you're saying they didn't stick to those arts for long.

[Dr.Syn]

Here's a good article from MAP's own archive: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/magazine/styles/hapkido1.htm

Persoanlly I find that Hapkido has a round blend of skills which can be applied at various levels of force... making it a good system for law enforcement (and school teachers). My advice would be to check out the local school, try it for a few lessons, and discuss your objectives with the instructor as far as police defensive tactics go. Good luck

Hapkido works great...Combat Hapkido works even better..Check out www.ichf.com and their program for police officers called the IPDTI.

[BackFistMonkey]

Hapkido works great...Combat Hapkido works even better

* fans the flames a little *

does anyone smell smoke ...

or maybe that was just a plug ...

[wild_pitch]

heh i was going to argue.. but hey whatever.

i think this is the same guy who was complaining about hapkido forms as well, even tho there are no commonly used hapkido forms.

eveyone has their opinion.

* fans the flames a little *

does anyone smell smoke ...

or maybe that was just a plug ...

[Thomas]

* fans the flames a little *

does anyone smell smoke ...

or maybe that was just a plug ...
heh heh heh... I think it's just a plug.

One thing to note though is that Combat Hapkido does run a tremendous International Police Defensive Tactics Course (IPDTI) which is tailored specifically for law enforcement and focuses on adapting Hapkido techniques and concepts to the specifc tasks that LEOs may need. My instructor is a certified IPDTI instructor and the subtle differences are amazing between the core techniques and the IPDTI techniques.

[BackFistMonkey]

heh heh heh... I think it's just a plug.

One thing to note though is that Combat Hapkido does run a tremendous International Police Defensive Tactics Course (IPDTI) which is tailored specifically for law enforcement and focuses on adapting Hapkido techniques and concepts to the specifc tasks that LEOs may need. My instructor is a certified IPDTI instructor and the subtle differences are amazing between the core techniques and the IPDTI techniques.

Frankly most of the police officers I know who have show up at our dojang or I have met and they wanted to talk about Martial Arts do so looking for " pain enforcement" techs and what not . I think arming american police with knowledge like this is wrong ... but then again maybe pressure point work on hippies chained together is more humane than pepper spray and paste applied directly onto eyes and genitals ... * shrugs *

since I am not a police officer , involved with combat hapkido, or taking their course I cant really make any judgement calls what so ever ... for all I know the whole point of the course maybe to share some wisdom and change some attitudes towards " the perp" .

I think being a cop is more than "staying alive out there " if all you can manage to do is "stay alive out there " then maybe you need a different profession rather than martial arts training .That comment not being directed to anyone in this thread or anyone else on the board .. just a observation ...

thanks for not taking offence to the previouse post I hope I dont offend with this one either .... just too many people being soldiers and police for the wrong reasons and yes some of them have really rubbed my fur the wrong way .....