KSW: Favorite Technique

[baubin2]

This is for all kuk sool practicioners

What's your favorite technique, and why do you like it? Make sure to include the amount of experience you have so we know where you're coming from.

My favorite so far is probably Sohn Mok Soo 9, as it is fun to do and very hard for the other person to escape once they're in it. However, I also like Sohn Mok Soo 5, and Ki Bohn Soo 14 and 15; hip throws are just fun :D I know up to Ah Sohn Mok Soo 6.

Step up; tell us what's your favorite and why!

[Aegis]

Hmmm, maybe we could get a brief description of some of these techniques so us outsiders can understand ;)

[Wolf]

Hmmm, maybe we could get a brief description of some of these techniques so us outsiders can understand ;)

Yeah that's probably a good idea ;)

I'd have to say my favorite technique is Sohn Mohk Soo 11. It's a pretty important foundational technique, that is used in many of the other sets as well. The type of wrist lock that is applied is used in many other styles too. Basically, this version starts as an escape from a wrist grab.

The attacker has reached out straight in front of their body and grabbed your wrist (not across the body to the other hand). Basically, you just reach across with your free hand and grab the top of their hand that is gripping your wrist. You then proceed to turn their hand over so that their fingers are pointing straight up and their thumb is pointing away from their body. Then there should be a 90 degree angle between the wrist and forearm and the forearm and bicep. This is a fairly easy, and pretty nasty wrist lock that is useful from many other situations as well. I've got others that I like too, but I'll think more about it, and post those later. Maybe I'll even see about posting some pics or video if I can get a chance.

[Aegis]

I think it's the equivalent to Aikido's Nikkyo fromt he sound of it, but a different application to the link here: http://cs.stmarys.ca/~s_bramania/Nikkyo.php

[baubin2]

Whoops, sorry Aegis. My bad.

Sohn Mok Soo 9 starts like 11; all the sohn mok soos start as an escape from a wrist grab. Basically you first crossstep with your left foot, using soombegi to escape from the wrist grab and grab your partner's hand with your other hand as you do. Then you take your right hand (hand formerly grabbed), and use it to grab your partner at the elbow. Step forward, take your partner's elbow with you until he's really off balance, and then take his arm up and over. If he's your friend, you make sure his arm stays vertical and close to his body. Pulling it out from his body can easily cause him to dislocate a shoulder, so never do that (at least not to your friends). Then when he's on the ground, pin him and do spinning backfist (at least, that's the official finish, usually I just punch them and be done).

Edited to add:

Noticed you changed your sig Paul. Congrats!

[Wolf]

I think it's the equivalent to Aikido's Nikkyo fromt he sound of it, but a different application to the link here: http://cs.stmarys.ca/~s_bramania/Nikkyo.php

Actually, that's our Ahn Sohn Mohk Soo 6. The technique I was discussing is not a cross grab, and the lock is different. I'll see if I can find a pic somewhere.

[zac_duncan]

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I studied KSW for about 5-6 years and learned the entire under blackbelt cirriculum before I switched over to "classic" hapkido, for lack of a better term, which I've studied for about another five years.

I agree with KSWpaul, Sohn Mak Su # 11 is a favorite, because it illustrates so many principles so succintly (it helps that it hurts too).

Another favorite is Ki Bohn So #4 (and all it's variations) - a wristlock in which you rotate the fifth metacarpal clockwise away from the humorous applying pressure to the connective tissues between the wrist and arm. I like the technique because of it's efficacy as either an arresting/controlling lock or as breaking technique. Very easy, very small changes in your footwoork can change this from a controlling technique to a breaking one at will.


I'm also fond of Di Eu Bohk Su #4 and Too Ki #12 (if I remember the numbers correctly) which are basic hip throws from a forward arm bar with the locking hand below the elbow. This lock is beautifully simple and with good hip motion and proper soon sa li ki will very easily break the elbow.

[spqrrowhawk]

Favorite technique.... hmm that’s a hard one. I'm going to cheat and give you two.

The first one is Too Ki 13. This is a classic martial arts technique where an attacker is coming after, you grab there shirt put your foot on there chest roll backwards and use their momentum to throw them. It is a technique that is great for demonstrations and it is very flashy. Unfortunately in most fight situations it is not very practical.

For practicality I like techniques that involve chicken wing, such as in Joong Geup Sohn Mohk Soo 1. It’s really easy to do; it is adaptable to many different situations, grabs to the wrists, cloths, and chest. Finally it provides great control over your opponent and leaves you in a relatively protected position.

[baubin2]

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I studied KSW for about 5-6 years and learned the entire under blackbelt cirriculum before I switched over to "classic" hapkido, for lack of a better term, which I've studied for about another five years.

I agree with KSWpaul, Sohn Mak Su # 11 is a favorite, because it illustrates so many principles so succintly (it helps that it hurts too).

Another favorite is Ki Bohn So #4 (and all it's variations) - a wristlock in which you rotate the fifth metacarpal clockwise away from the humorous applying pressure to the connective tissues between the wrist and arm. I like the technique because of it's efficacy as either an arresting/controlling lock or as breaking technique. Very easy, very small changes in your footwoork can change this from a controlling technique to a breaking one at will.


I'm also fond of Di Eu Bohk Su #4 and Too Ki #12 (if I remember the numbers correctly) which are basic hip throws from a forward arm bar with the locking hand below the elbow. This lock is beautifully simple and with good hip motion and proper soon sa li ki will very easily break the elbow.

You learned the entire under blackbelt curriculum but didn't get your black belt? What happened?

[zac_duncan]

You learned the entire under blackbelt curriculum but didn't get your black belt? What happened?

It's something of a long story, but I can boil it down to two things:

1st: though I had been ready for black for a long time (I was a Dahn Bo for almost two years) I had a nasty habit of getting injured every time GM Suh came to town for testing.

2nd: There were, as I understand, some disagreements between my instructor and his instructor which coincided with his meeting of a very accomplished hapkido master. One thing led to another and our school wound up leaving the association and joining an HKD association.

The big shock to me during the switch was that there were practically no differences between HKD and KSW. I'd know they were simlilar, but I didn't know that KSW is pretty much (at least up into the early dan ranks) one form of HKD. KSW had the addition of forms (which I don't particularly care for anyway) and lower stances in general, but still pretty much the same. I simply had to learn a few additional techniques and learn a new order of the techs and bang! I tested for 1st dan in HKD. Five years later and I'm preparing to test for the next dan rank.


I love the KSW system, but this path wound up best for me. Happy training.


Cheers!
-zac

[Legless_Marine]

2nd: There were, as I understand, some disagreements between my instructor and his instructor which coincided with his meeting of a very accomplished hapkido master. One thing led to another and our school wound up leaving the association and joining an HKD association.

I love the KSW system, but this path wound up best for me. Happy training.



Zac, I've read a fair bit about KSW history, and there is a consistent theme of Masters having a falling out with Grandmaster In Hyuk Suh, and leaving the WKSA.

There are now many schools out there teaching KSW, some under the KSW name, some not.

I speculate that down the road, a second federation will eventually be established as an umbrella for all of these "rogue" schools.

The good thing about switching from KSW to HKD is that so much of it is transferable.

[zac_duncan]

Zac, I've read a fair bit about KSW history, and there is a consistent theme of Masters having a falling out with Grandmaster In Hyuk Suh, and leaving the WKSA.

There are now many schools out there teaching KSW, some under the KSW name, some not.


This is very, very very true, but I don't think we're one of those schools. I'm not privvy to all the details, nor would I share them if I were, but I'm pretty sure this was more of an issue of preferring one teacher to another rather than any issues with the WKSA. At least that's my take on it.


Still, I feel that KSW has a good system.

[TXKukSoolBB]

Sorry, I'm going to break the rules even further. I have three favorites...
1. Yahng Sohn Mohk Soo #5. Defense against both wrist grabs. Breaks or jams both thumbs with a follow up palm strike to the back.
2. Bahng Too Ki #8. Defense against throws. As opponet tries to throw you, quick soo do (knife hand) to the throat.
3. Gahk Doh Bub #1. Principles of angles. Take opponets wrist grab from 5:00 to 1:00 then quickly come back to center with a palm strike to the ribs.

I know my descriptions may not paint the easiest picture to understand and I apologize for that. At least it should give you an idea. By the way, I am preparing for the cycle of second dan testing at this time.

[baubin2]

I was helping a black belt (then brown-black belt) practice her bahng too ki once, couldn't stop laughing the entire time. She was barely doing anything, and yet I couldn't get past her defenses to throw her. Why this struck me as hilarious I don't know, but that entire set is definitely very fun to do.

Oh, and good luck going for KSN, TX

[Hapkidoin P]

3. Gahk Doh Bub #1. Principles of angles. Take opponets wrist grab from 5:00 to 1:00 then quickly come back to center with a palm strike to the ribs.


I am fond of this one as well. I learned the S-lock and armbar combos from it as well,good stuff. Instead of letting the hand fall that was holding you,quickly "feed" it to your non-striking hand at the 1:00 to set up your combo(s)...gotta love it.

I am also going for my 2nd next year. HKD,though. :)

A big congrats to KSWPaul JKN!!!

[TXKukSoolBB]

Instead of letting the hand fall that was holding you,quickly "feed" it to your non-striking hand at the 1:00 to set up your combo(s)...gotta love it.


Very interesting...That is what I love about these techniques...you can make suttle changes. Even though KSW schools all follow the same curriculum, each school adds a little "flavor" of their own. That is what is so cool about visiting other schools and going to tournaments.

Thanks for the suggestion and good luck to you on your 2nd dan.

[Wolf]

A big congrats to KSWPaul JKN!!!

THANKS!! :D

[doors]

I'd say my favorite is Sohn Mak Su #10 just beacuse its so evil.
partner grabs your wrist you grab his hand with your other hand you cross step with your left leg you raise your right hand up and basically pull back on his fingers then put your right foot around his knees (he should now be on his toes) elbow him with your right elbow it the face then wrap your right arm arund his arm and pull his hand to give pain to his elbow.

with full take down (if i remember this correctly) he should fall over your leg then kneel down still holding his hand with your left hand put his elbow on your leg push down and grab his mastoid and squeeze (but definietly not that hard with your partner)

[zac_duncan]

3. Gahk Doh Bub #1. Principles of angles.

Is Gahk Doh Bub the set with the elbow lock using the legs? If so, I very much like that technique, if only as a finishing/pinning motion. The same leg position can be used to lock the neck if you place your locking leg under the chin of your parter and get a solid knee base on your partner's ribs or spine. This works beautifully from some of the seated techniques.


To add to the party, I too am preparing for my second dan. Testing this September.

[TXKukSoolBB]

Is Gahk Doh Bub the set with the elbow lock using the legs?

I believe you are thinking of a different technique. In Kuk Sool, this set is a defense set against wrist grabs using the principle of angles.
Good luck to you on your second dan testing!

[zac_duncan]

No, It's taught from a wrist grab. I'm pretty sure that it's either Go Keup Sohn Mak Su or Gahk Do Bub.

Basicly it starts like Sohn Mak Su #1, with an outside arm bar, but you guide your opponent to a kneeling position and throw your left leg over his arm directly at his wrist while bracing his elbow with your right knee. I'm 90 percent sure that it's from the same set of techniques that features the head between the legs "pile driver". Sound familiar?


Also, good luck to you and thanks for wishing me luck. I'll need it.

-zac

[TXKukSoolBB]

That is the set. Sorry, I misread your previous post. I took it as they began with the leg locks. The entire set is awesome. The only downside to that technique, for me, is that at 5'7" I can't practice it on the tall guys. I'm not that flexible! I have great success with #10. I love the thumb lock!

[zac_duncan]

I'm fairly tall, 6'1'' but I'm not especially flexible so I know what you mean with that technique. To make it work for me, I need to step into my opponent when executing the first part of the lock and shift my hips wide towards the back to bring them almost all the way down before throwing my leg over.

That's why I prefer this as a finishing or pinning method rather than takedown in and off itself.


I like the thumb lock, too, but I find it really tricky to sink on a sweaty partner. It's a cool principle, but I'm fairly certain I couldn't pull it off if I needed to. Now, the thumb lock in Ki Bohn Bohn (I think that's the set), that one drops 'em.

[TXKukSoolBB]

You are probably talking about Ki Bohn Bohn #10. Fast thumb lock while steping into your opponent. The set also has some great finger/wrist locks: #6,7,8. I have had two bloody noses and 1 black eye thanks to "Mr. Sweaty partner." It does make techniques harder to stick, but that is a fact of life here in Texas. Plus, it's nice to take a realistic shot from time to time. Keeps you on your toes...even if it is an accident.

[zac_duncan]

I'm pretty sure that's the technique/set, though it's hard to recall exactly. I rarely practice those sets anymore, they're great, but my primary training these days is based more around concepts than around specific techniques, if that makes sense.

Mr. Sweaty partner is a great thing to have, as you know that when you get ahold of him, you're performing the technique correctly.


Regarding the finger techniques for wrist control, one of the masters I train under has me currently working on how manipulation of those locks can open up certin nerve point and how you can combine the two to make your take-downs all that much more painful. I don't know if you've played with that, but it's awfully fun. Partners don't like all that much, though.

[Wolf]

LOL! I am Mr. Sweaty Partner! :D

[Wolf]

you want to talk about painful techniques though! i get to be a testing dummy while my 3rd degree instructor practices fan techniqes. those suck!

[zac_duncan]

If I remember correctly the fan techniques are not entirely different than the Dan Bong and Soh Bong (mini stick or pen) techniques. more striking than the soh bong.

Those do hurt. Oh, they hurt. Along with the rope, that's one of my favorite weapons. Cane hurts pretty badly too.

[TXKukSoolBB]

I find the belt techniques (you could also use the rope) to be not so fun also. At a demo last October, I almost passed out as my feet were tied to my throat as I layed on my belly. I felt my self slipping away as he pulled the rope off. Later folks were saying, "man...you make it look so real...!" I was like It was real! Then PSN laughes and said he knew all along how close I was to passing out. Yeah right! Still pretty cool though.

[Hapkidoin P]

Po Bak Sool... :eek:

I don't know if you guys have heard of GM Timmerman,but MAN did he lay into me in March at the Arnold..whew. I was choked,hogtied,and left for dead. I can't wait to do it again!!!! :D

BTW...if you guys ever have a chance to meet him,ask him about the Canadian gas pedal..preferably while someone else is his "helper".

[Legless_Marine]

Still, I feel that KSW has a good system.

By all means, I agree. Although I believe that KSW has some organizational growing pains it will yet go through, I think it is an incredible system.

[justinksw]

I have been thinking about this for a bit now, seeing everyone else's response. It's really hard for me to pick a technique I can call my favorite but here are two of my favorites:

Eui Bohk Soo #5 - attacker grabs your right shoulder with their left hand (or left shoulder w/ right hand). Grab their wrist and 'peel it off' of your shoulder and step back with the opposite foot while locking the elbow with your other free hand. This is a quick and easy take down.

Ahp Eui Bohk Soo #15 - bar-room grab where they grab your shirt with one hand. Using opposite arm, reach across and go up and over their elbow, pushing down to cause their elbow to bend, reaching up to their chin, and grabbing their head with the other hand, stepping back to bring them down to the ground. Again, this is another quick take-down to get the attacker off you and get you out of there safe.

Sorry if the description is hard to understand, it's hard to put them in words without being too lengthy about it. :D

[Wolf]

Ki Bohn Soo #5 - attacker grabs your right shoulder with their left hand (or left shoulder w/ right hand). Grab their wrist and 'peel it off' of your shoulder and step back with the opposite foot while locking the elbow with your other free hand. This is a quick and easy take down.


I think you got a little mixed up. :D This is actually Eui Bohk Soo #5. Ki Bohn Soo are the foundational techniques that all start from stance.

[TXKukSoolBB]

I think you got a little mixed up. :D This is actually Eui Bohk Soo #5. Ki Bohn Soo are the foundational techniques that all start from stance.

Correct. Ki Bohn Soo #5 is the quick twisting wrist lock of having your opponents hand twisted so that his palm faces his face.

Eui Bohk Soo # 5 is a very cool technique though.

[justinksw]

see what I get for trying to squeeze in a post during break? I was thinking one thing and writing another... I know it... really!


Must practice..... more practice.... :bang:

[TXKukSoolBB]

Trust me...I do understand!

[baubin2]

Friend was doing the make-up belt tests last Wednesday, and I ended up coming in an hour early to help him review b/c he didn't know the technique numbers too well. Knew the techniques, or he wouldn't have passed (duh), but his number memorization was shaky. So we basically just spent an hour with me going, "Okay, Sohn Mok Soo 5, Eui Bok Soo 12, Ah Son Mok Soo 2.... .no, that's 6, what's 2?" You get the idea. He'd spent the last couple weeks in England and making up his classwork from going to England, and hadn't had much chance to come to practice.

[AZeitung]

Ahp Eui Bohk Soo #15 - bar-room grab where they grab your shirt with one hand. Using opposite arm, reach across and go up and over their elbow, pushing down to cause their elbow to bend, reaching up to their chin, and grabbing their head with the other hand, stepping back to bring them down to the ground. Again, this is another quick take-down to get the attacker off you and get you out of there safe.


I like that, too, not as something I'd necessarrily use, but as something I would do if I wanted to make a Stephen Seagal-esque movie. I also like anything with a chicken wing. Those are fun.'

edit: Like Joon Geup Sohn Muhk Soo #1. #3 is also kind of fun.

[ember]

At the moment I'm fond of the Too Ki set, just because they seem so natural. I wouldn't say I'm completely up-to-speed on the takedowns / follow-throughs on those yet.