Attention All Kenpo Black Belts

[rmcpeek]

If you are a legitimate Kenpo Black Belt you are qualified to be issued immediate rank in Ju Jitsu.

Please visit USA Self-Defense Centers website for details.

http://www.usaselfdefensecenters.com/kenpojujitsu.html

We are NOT a diploma mill. We are a legitimate, respected Martial Arts School.

[Pacificshore]

3,2,1........Locked

[Luar]

If you are a legitimate Kenpo Black Belt you are qualified to be issued immediate rank in Ju Jitsu.

Please visit USA Self-Defense Centers website for details.

http://www.usaselfdefensecenters.com/kenpojujitsu.html

We are NOT a diploma mill. We are a legitimate, respected Martial Arts School.

Interesting marketing tool.

[stump]

Does this stink like a 5 day old dead fish or is it just me?

<<<We are NOT a diploma mill. We are a legitimate, respected Martial Arts (cough...McDojo...cough).

[Aegis]

As I've said elsewhere: you offer black belts with no additional training. That makes you a diploma mill in my eyes, irregardless of how much you claim you aren't.

[KenpoDavid]

They spammed this all over MA boards. Got ripped a new one on Kenponet, slightly more politely rebuked on Martial Talk... trying to back-peddle on his website now.

[Bill Lear]

Just goes to show that Mr. Parker had it right:

"Although the belt colors show, they are no proof that you know."

This kind of business is sad, and a poor reflection on the leaders of our art. It kind of cheapens the idea of achieving a black belt. The thing that I find sad is that Mr. Parker felt compelled to make the statement above when he was alive. I can only imagine how he would feel if he saw these things today.

:cry:

[Aegis]

Maybe it just goes to show that it's a watered down form of jujutsu!

Before all the kenpoka get annoyed, let me explain: I haven't seen kenpo and don't really know what it's all about. However, I have seen different styles of jujutsu, and a black belt in 1 style certainly doesn't mean you'd be at the same standard in another, as techniques vary in application between styles, and some styles have very different techniques on their syllabus. And of course, this is all within the same art, jujutsu (though I will accept that such a comparison is probably misleading, as jujutsu is probably the art with the most widespread parent arts these days...).

When comparing 2 different martial arts though, the chances of one art's ranking system and syllabus directly correlating with another's are slim indeed!

As such, if ANY kenpo system grants you rank in this style of jujutsu, then the jujutsu must have a really small/low standard syllabus in order to guarantee that ANY kenpo blackbelt will be up to standard.

Good reasoning eh?

[Bill Lear]

Maybe it just goes to show that it's a watered down form of jujutsu!
Kenpo and Ju Jitsu are completely different styles. Kenpo is not watered down Ju Jitsu.


When comparing 2 different martial arts though, the chances of one art's ranking system and syllabus directly correlating with another's are slim indeed!
I 100% agree with you. The chances are indeed slim.


As such, if ANY kenpo system grants you rank in this style of jujutsu, then the jujutsu must have a really small/low standard syllabus in order to guarantee that ANY kenpo blackbelt will be up to standard.

I'm forced to agree with you on this too. I think this is sad, not just for Kenpo, but for the martial arts community as a whole. This kind of "cross-ranking" and certification sale diminishes the credibility of all martial artists.


Good reasoning eh?
Yep.

[Aegis]

Kenpo and Ju Jitsu are completely different styles. Kenpo is not watered down Ju Jitsu.

Oh, I agree!

I realise that what I said may not have accurately described what I was thinking!

I never meant to imply that kenpo was watered down jujutsu, but that the style of jujutsu that you get this "shodan" in must be really watered down to ensure that anyone from any system of kenpo will have covered the appropriate techniques.

Picture it like saying that anyone who has a black belt in jujutsu can have the same grade in karate: the karate would ahve to be watered down to the point that anyone from any style of jujutsu would have covered the necessary striking techniques to the same standard.

Essentially what I was saying was that different emphases build up, and eventually you only have a small area of common overlap, which would have to be the syllabus of this jujutsu style being advertised.

To further emphasise the point: the style of jujutsu I train in probably won't accept dan grades from other organisations. If they want the dan grade, they have to test for it like everyone else, until then they can get accelerated progression through the grades, but still have to test. And that's within jujutsu, rather than between jujutsu and other arts. The reason? Simply the fact that different styles have different grading structures and different technical emphases.


Probably still about as clear as mud, right....?

I'll try to have another look when it's not the morning any more!

[Luar]

The bottom line is this - getting the rank without doing the work is a very empty and shallow experience.

[Bill Lear]

Oh, I agree!

I realise that what I said may not have accurately described what I was thinking!

I never meant to imply that kenpo was watered down jujutsu, but that the style of jujutsu that you get this "shodan" in must be really watered down to ensure that anyone from any system of kenpo will have covered the appropriate techniques.

Picture it like saying that anyone who has a black belt in jujutsu can have the same grade in karate: the karate would ahve to be watered down to the point that anyone from any style of jujutsu would have covered the necessary striking techniques to the same standard.

Essentially what I was saying was that different emphases build up, and eventually you only have a small area of common overlap, which would have to be the syllabus of this jujutsu style being advertised.

To further emphasise the point: the style of jujutsu I train in probably won't accept dan grades from other organisations. If they want the dan grade, they have to test for it like everyone else, until then they can get accelerated progression through the grades, but still have to test. And that's within jujutsu, rather than between jujutsu and other arts. The reason? Simply the fact that different styles have different grading structures and different technical emphases.


Probably still about as clear as mud, right....?

I'll try to have another look when it's not the morning any more!

I follow ya. Thanks for the clairification.

[Bill Lear]

The bottom line is this - getting the rank without doing the work is a very empty and shallow experience.

Not only is it a very empty and shallow expereince, it is also FRAUD.

[KenpoDavid]

Please don't misconstrue that I am defending this guy in any way...

But I'm pretty sure he is offering rank in "Kempo Ju Jitsu", which is not Ju Jitsu, it is a variation of Kempo.

But other than that I fully agree with the previous 2 posts :)

[Bolt]

Please don't misconstrue that I am defending this guy in any way...

But I'm pretty sure he is offering rank in "Kempo Ju Jitsu", which is not Ju Jitsu, it is a variation of Kempo.



Perhaps, but then he should have clarified the post, by stating Kempo Ju Jitsu, and not just Jujitsu. After all, those of us that have not lived under a rock for the past 15 yrs, are going to know that Jujitsu and Kempo/Kenpo nowhere near resemble each other. And to offer a high rank just for being a black belt in Kenpo is rediculous. I don't see Shotokan offering high ranks to black belt kenpoists, and they're closer related.