Cults

[Melanie]

Hello All,

I am a member on er...one or two lists :D and found this post by Eric Engle exceptional! Your thoughts, comments and experiences please! Especially as I promised to get back to him with we thought about it...

I just had a thought that I wanted to ask everyone here their opinions about. In my years of training I have come across quite a number of karate groups that functioned very much as a cult would. Generally the sensei was looked upon very much like a god, and followed by many of the students unquestioningly. I have witnessed senseis control pretty much every aspect
of the student's lives, both inside and outside the dojo, even to the point in one instance where the student was required to formally request permission to marry someone that did not train at the dojo. I have witnessed the expulsion of students that visited/trained with instructors that their sensei had forbidden them to due to some personally problem that the sensei
had. I could go on giving examples, but hopefully you understand what I am talking about. It them dawned on me that this may be a common practice in the Japanese culture; functioning with a cult like mentality. What I, as an American, would see as a bad thing, may in fact simply be a cultural difference. My question is, how prevalent is this "follow unquestioningly" mentality in the karate world? And what does everyone think about that "cult like " possibility?

Eric Engle....

19/04/02

[Andy Murray]

It is really important that the relationship between Instructor and Student incorporates some form of trust. If the student actively questions everything, there is clearly little trust of the Instructor. This is not to say that the student shouldn't try to develop his own opinion. Sadly what is referred to here is clearly the abuse of trust, and the abuse of position. This goes on in all walks of life, not just the Martial Arts.

I have little understanding of the specific references made about Japanese Culture. I've never been there, nor do I know any Japanese people. It seems bizarre to me really, when so many 'cults' seem to spring up in America, that Eric is pointing the finger at Japan.

Anyone suggest what the earliest historical example of a Cult Culture would be?

[Pablo]

I'm pretty sure that the earliest examples of cultism occur long before there was any recorded history. The phenomenon happens in all kinds of cultures, rural, urban, open, closed.
It seems to be part of human nature to want to fit into a super/sub-ordinate structure. Religion provides such a structure, as do politics, business, academia, and military/paramilitary groups.

The term 'cult' comes from 'occult', or that which is hidden, or obscured. Cultists operate in a framework that seeks to withold or distort knowledge to achieve undue power over others.
Anytime there is a culture which demands trust and loyalty, but **witholds** verifiable knowledge, or replaces it with
'secret/mystery' knowledge, it is a good idea to suspect a cult.
The use of rigid 'us' and 'them' labelling, or other devices to promote group identity, such as uniforms, jargon, etc. is another common warning sign. Finally, the method of recruitment that cultists depend on is almost universally one of offering to aid/insulate the individual against those who would attack him or her.
Sound like anyplace anyone has been lately???
:D

Here are some examples you could search for:

Das Ahnenerbe ------------ Al-Ma'unah

Yukio Mishima ------------- Count Dante

Aum Shin Rikyo


Also check out:

http://www.furyu.com/archives/issue8/zanshin8.html

http://www.ardemgaz.com/prev/way/sidebar.html

[Thomas Vince]

How many of you if you could have would have followed people like Bruce Lee as far as you could have? I am involved in my student's life as youngsters and I enjoy contact with their parents and "joining forces" with the parental unit. As teenagers i am majorly involved in keeping them, and in some cases getting the out of trouble. I spend time out of the studio with them and try hard to cultivate their lives. i know that I am often a part of many family discussions during dinnertime, conflict time, excuse time, and enforcement time. I have a great responsibility to maintain the magnetism I know I have, the influence I can gain, the confidence and trust I receive, and be true to the student in the most honorable way! If I were evil I would certainly and could quite easily build a cult. It's kinda scary when you think about it, but whenever you have someone that can exhibit strenght and power and at the same time be influential to thought processes you as an instructor must be egoless and work towards humility everyday or your head will be to big to fit into the room. And your students will be destructive and selfish. Good topic it should make us all think closely about our own power structures.