Ji Han Jae Founder of Hapkido???

[DragonDude]

Is Ji Han Jae , Korean now based in USA ( was in Bruce Lee's Game of DEath, etc) really the founder of the style Hapkido as he claims?

As I hear from others he is not, yet others say he is.

At the time of making Game of Death with Bruce Lee (1972) he was not a Grandmaster 10th Dan, so he must have been under someone else in a Hapkido group, so he can't have been the founder???

[Coges]

There are lots of sites that will state the history of Hapkido like:

http://www.ultimatefightingarts.com/hapkido-history.html

Some will have differing views, but most I have found to be similar to this link.

[American HKD]

Is Ji Han Jae , Korean now based in USA ( was in Bruce Lee's Game of DEath, etc) really the founder of the style Hapkido as he claims?

As I hear from others he is not, yet others say he is.

At the time of making Game of Death with Bruce Lee (1972) he was not a Grandmaster 10th Dan, so he must have been under someone else in a Hapkido group, so he can't have been the founder???

Greetings

Tough topic to discuss.

IMO Doju Ji is the founder of "Hapkido" and "Sin Moo Hapkido", I will qualify this statement saying that he added alot of material to what he learned first learned from Choi and coined the name HKD.

That new style is what's commonly called Hapkido.

According to Ji what he learned from Choi Yong Sool, was an art called "Yawara" which is a generic name non-style specific for an ancient form of Japanese Jujutsu.

Some say of course, Choi came up with the name Hapkido for this art of Yawara or the Korean equvilent name "Yu Sool" or Hapki Yu Sool thus making him the founder.

Your opinion is as good as mine in the end.

[Jungkihapkido]

Ji, Han Jae was a student of Doju Nim Choi, Yong Sul for about 3 years. DJN Choi was the founder of Haki-Yusul/Hapkido IMHO. GM Ji claims that he came up with the name but DJN Choi was the person who began teaching Hapki-Yusul/ Hapkido in Korea and was the head of every major Hapkido organization in Korea in the beginning.

[American HKD]

Ji, Han Jae was a student of Doju Nim Choi, Yong Sul for about 3 years. DJN Choi was the founder of Haki-Yusul/Hapkido IMHO. GM Ji claims that he came up with the name but DJN Choi was the person who began teaching Hapki-Yusul/ Hapkido in Korea and was the head of every major Hapkido organization in Korea in the beginning.

Greetings,

The reason I disagree is because Choi always claimed to teach only what he learned in Japan, therefore he founded nothing just changed the name from Japanese to Korean. That's not a founder but a master of what he learned.

Ji on the other hand studied Tae-kyon kicking, sword, long staff, claims to invented the cane techs., mental studies, coined the name hapkido if you believe him.

Ji therefore actually formed (Founded) something, a new hybrid system called Hapkido.

Ji & Choi both founded the Kido Assoc. so that doesn't prove anything other then Choi was the senior master which everyone from all camps agree.

[Jungkihapkido]

The material that GM Ji teaches is definatly different from the original/ orthodox material that DJN Choi taught. GM Ji and another Master added high kicking techniques and maybe a few other things but DJN Choi will always be known as the person who was the founder/ senior person of Hapkido. Many of GM Ji's top students consider DJN Choi to be the founder of Hapkido!

In the end it does not really matter that much to me as I do see the orthodox Hapkido of DJN Choi and the Sin Moo of GM Ji to be very different arts.

[American HKD]

The material that GM Ji teaches is definatly different from the original/ orthodox material that DJN Choi taught. GM Ji and another Master added high kicking techniques and maybe a few other things but DJN Choi will always be known as the person who was the founder/ senior person of Hapkido. Many of GM Ji's top students consider DJN Choi to be the founder of Hapkido!

In the end it does not really matter that much to me as I do see the orthodox Hapkido of DJN Choi and the Sin Moo of GM Ji to be very different arts.

You're right they are very different.

An I know there's 2 persepectives on the subject that's why it was good we both explained our beliefs.

[American HKD]

1

[MaxG]

To original poster: This site has a pretty good article on this topic.

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/magazine/styles/hapkido1.htm

The creator of the 'name' "hapkido" is a source of debate. But it's really just a name. I think you should ask yourself a few questions.

First question: If Choi never met Ji Han Jae would he still be credited as being the person who brought back aikijiujitsu techniques from Japan. Answer: Yes

Second question: If Ji Han Jae never met Choi and trained with him would he have the joint locking techniques that hapkido is known for to pass on? Answer: No. He learned them from Choi.

Third question: Ji Han Jae is credited with added kicks (including high flying ones) and meditation to the hapkido curriculum. Do all hapkido schools have meditation and high flying kicks. Answer: No

My school has no meditation involved and we don't do high flying kicks or spinning kicks to the head and such. So which should we credit our lineage to? Choi who was the one who brought back techniques that EVERY hapkidoist uses or Ji Han Jae which is credited with adding techniques that we (and many other hapkido schools) don't use?

But like American HKD says
"Your opinion is as good as mine in the end."

[American HKD]

To original poster: This site has a pretty good article on this topic.

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/magazine/styles/hapkido1.htm

The creator of the 'name' "hapkido" is a source of debate. But it's really just a name. I think you should ask yourself a few questions.

First question: If Choi never met Ji Han Jae would he still be credited as being the person who brought back aikijiujitsu techniques from Japan. Answer: Yes

Second question: If Ji Han Jae never met Choi and trained with him would he have the joint locking techniques that hapkido is known for to pass on? Answer: No. He learned them from Choi.

Third question: Ji Han Jae is credited with added kicks (including high flying ones) and meditation to the hapkido curriculum. Do all hapkido schools have meditation and high flying kicks. Answer: No

My school has no meditation involved and we don't do high flying kicks or spinning kicks to the head and such. So which should we credit our lineage to? Choi who was the one who brought back techniques that EVERY hapkidoist uses or Ji Han Jae which is credited with adding techniques that we (and many other hapkido schools) don't use?

But like American HKD says
"Your opinion is as good as mine in the end."

Greetings

Good thoughts, but promblematic when compared to the facts.

Choi only ever had a hand full of students at any given time, his lessons were hard and very expensive to say the least. His personally was rough and he was not what you would call a charismatic leader.

Ji was a person of some vision and courage at a very young age going out on his own training hard exploring different Arts etc. Becoming an important person in the government, having successful schools, led to movies ect. Think about it luck or destiny who knows but it happened.

Because of his status and skill he spread HKD throughout Korea, 98% of the Instrs. came from his lineage and including the ones who went abroad. Most Korean Hapkidoin and many others world wide still consider Ji's techniques to be the best in the world.

Now for my spectualtion I think without Ji Han Jae, Yu Sool or Hapki Yu Sool would have wound up as a reatively small group like the Jung Ki Kwan or Jong Bae Rim's. Great Masters for sure, but I think the group as a whole would have stayed relatively small and close knit like many Japanese Jujutsu Ryu are today.

[mike-IHF]

reply,

Everyone here has good opinions. Truth of the matter like one person already said is Hapkido is just a name. And most likely if not for the Japanese name Aikido, or Hul chi Dao in Mandarin. The name Hapkido never would have come up. I personally don't know who started the name Hapkido Ji, or Choi. Some would say Choi already used the name Hapkido before Ji said that he came up with the name. Some say that Choi always said that he taught Yawara, and Ji was the one who came up with the name. Point is that it does not matter really. However, since there seems to be some sort of relationship between Choi, and Ueyshiba, maybe Choi did come up with the name Hapkido, from Ueyshiba's Aikido. I don't really know.

Dragon dude- Just for the record Ji was a 7th Dan at the time he made game of death with bruce lee. He was not a 10th Dan at that time, so you were correct in your assumption.

[HKD]

but there was no debate until CHoi passed away, then Ji poped up and started claiming to be the founder of HKD. why didn't he make this clame while Choi was alive? i had the pleasure to talk with Bong So Han, he was one of Choi's first students and a fellow classmate of Ji, he was there through the hole thing right from the start and he sees Choi as the founder. he also said that "Ji thinks to much of himself" if U read interviews with Ji you'll see he claimes to be the founder of everything all the kicks all the names, the joint locks, throws and the true teacher of every HKD grandmaster in the world.

[American HKD]

but there was no debate until CHoi passed away, then Ji poped up and started claiming to be the founder of HKD. why didn't he make this clame while Choi was alive? i had the pleasure to talk with Bong So Han, he was one of Choi's first students and a fellow classmate of Ji, he was there through the hole thing right from the start and he sees Choi as the founder. he also said that "Ji thinks to much of himself" if U read interviews with Ji you'll see he claimes to be the founder of everything all the kicks all the names, the joint locks, throws and the true teacher of every HKD grandmaster in the world.

You are so out of context it's almost unblievable, you sound like you know nothing about HKD at all.

You actually teach Hapkido ? :confused:

Go do your homework before making all these stupid statements. I don't have the patients to educate you.

[Jungkihapkido]

but there was no debate until CHoi passed away, then Ji poped up and started claiming to be the founder of HKD.

This statement is true, GM Ji did not claim to be the founder of Hapkido until after DJN Choi's death in 1986.

why didn't he make this clame while Choi was alive? i had the pleasure to talk with Bong So Han, he was one of Choi's first students and a fellow classmate of Ji, he was there through the hole thing right from the start and he sees Choi as the founder.

GM Han was a student of GM Ji not DJN Choi!


he also said that "Ji thinks to much of himself" if U read interviews with Ji you'll see he claimes to be the founder of everything all the kicks all the names, the joint locks, throws and the true teacher of every HKD grandmaster in the world.

I am not sure about this! I think GM Ji claims he added the kicks but not really much more than that.

[nj_howard]

...i had the pleasure to talk with Bong So Han, he was one of Choi's first students and a fellow classmate of Ji, he was there through the hole thing right from the start and he sees Choi as the founder. he also said that "Ji thinks to much of himself"...
As somebody else has pointed out, Bong Soo Han was a student of Ji Han Jae, not of Choi Young Sool.. and I have to say I'm skeptical about this quote. I have seen a fair amount of Bong Soo Han on tape, and he truly does not seem the type who would talk negatively about another martial artist, especially one of the stature of Ji Han Jae. Bong Soo Han seems far too dignified for that kind of thing. Just my opinion, of course...

[American HKD]

Greetings

I think Bong Soo Han may have briefly trained with Choi just as HS Myung has "seminar style". They were both Ji's student and probably met Choi through Ji.

Neither one have any Dan rank from Choi, so to say they were Choi's students is sort of a HUGH HUGH STRETCH.

Ji added weapons to HKD 6ft staff, cane, sword and of course many additional kicks, Not Joint locks, throws, low kicks etc. they are directly from Choi's system.

As was pointed out already Ji's style and Choi's style are quite different, Ji's HKD uses Choi's style as it's core but evolved with into Korean Kicking and weapons, taoist Philosophy.

I don't say ones better because I to consider Choi the to be the Father of Yu Sool in Korea however Ji branched off of Choi's exact system but we of course trace ourselves to Choi as well because Ji does.

[MaxG]

It's very obvious that you fall under the Ji Han Jae fellowship American HKD and your statements seem to lean towards the "Ji Han Jae is the real creator of Hapkido" mindset.

I'm curious why your website states this though.

"In resent times Hapkido was re-born by the man given the title of "Father of Modern Hapkido", CHOI, YONG-SOOL."

[American HKD]

It's very obvious that you fall under the Ji Han Jae fellowship American HKD and your statements seem to lean towards the "Ji Han Jae is the real creator of Hapkido" mindset.

I'm curious why your website states this though.

"In resent times Hapkido was re-born by the man given the title of "Father of Modern Hapkido", CHOI, YONG-SOOL."

Ok but were covering the same thing I said many times here already.

Just to be politically correct I guess and to be respectful to Choi I called him the Father of HKD not the Founder.

Choi Yong Sool brought Yawara back from Japan not Hapkido. I believe that Choi always taught what he learned in Japan for his entire career, and that went through a few name changes but Choi founded nothing.

To me Ji Han Jae created Hapkido, well over 90% of the world train in Ji's style not Choi's.

No disrepect at all to Choi we wouldn't have HKD with out him so I respect Choi's HUGE contribution to through his Yawara, Yu Sool, or Hapkido your Choice.

[MaxG]

Ah, I see. Well like you said everyone has their own point of view . Yours is as good as mine and vice versa.

And not flaming but I think you keep spelling "huge" wrong. Just FYI.

[American HKD]

Ah, I see. Well like you said everyone has their own point of view . Yours is as good as mine and vice versa.

And not flaming but I think you keep spelling "huge" wrong. Just FYI.


Thanks I thought something looked wrong ;)