Usefulness of weapon training?

[Adam]

Excactly how useful is it to train with conventional weapons (staff, knife, club, nunchucks, swords etc.) for self-defense situations? I mean, it has become illegal to carry most weapons (at least it is here) except for small knives. Can you train using weapons in defense nowadays, or is it more of a sport?

And no, I don't know anything about weapons training.

[YODA]

Unfortunately your attacker (The Criminal) doesn't obey the law.

Weapons are all around us - better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6!

[JediMasterChris]

I think Bokken and Jo training is pretty practical because it can be applied to many things, like sticks, brooms, mops, etc.

[YODA]

I prefer to train with sticks, brooms, mops, etc :D

[Adam]

But what if you don't have something sticklike at hand when you're attacked? Wouldn't you have to carry the weapon yourself to use it? A broom sort of sticks out if you have to carry it around on your night out with the boys.
Many people carry knives. Wouldn't knives be the most useful skill to learn?

[YODA]

There is almost ALWAYS something at hand that can be used as a weapon.

Often the attacker will be carrying it - take it off him & beat his mates about the head with it :D

[morphus]

Though i haven't done as much weapons training(some knife & a little stickwork) as i'd like, i think it is very important to have the knowledge!

It MIGHT just save your life sometime!

[YODA]

Like any form of training - you need to put a LOT of training in with weapons to be functional with them.

I mean REAL training - realistic drilling, hitting things, realistic sparring - not just kata and what amounts to "oriental medieval reinactment".

One thing that REALY p1sses me off is the (for example) Karate guy that does a 3 stick seminars then says he "also does Eskrima" - He'd be well brassed off if I did 3 Karate sessions and then advertised that I "also do Karate" :woo:

[Adam]

Interesting Yoda. Can you give some examples from real life?
Most people seem to get into fights in discos or bars, so maybe glasses, bottles, chairs or potted plants might be useful to learn?
Do you train in improvised weapons, like carkeys/pencils?

[JediMasterChris]

Well people like to pick on my on my way to Kendo, so just incase they attack me I have a Katana with me. :D I don't think I would really ever use a sword on anyone unless they were gonna kill me or something but katana can be applied to sticks (the ones that grow off trees) or some other things.

[Adam]

Haha, that would be a sight to see.
Mugger: Don't mess with me, I've got a knife
Jedimasterchris: That? That's not a knife! THIS is a knife. *pulls katana, hooligans scarper* :D

But you can't stab or chop with a stick, just beat. Surely that's not the same thing? The parrying might be the same I think.

[JediMasterChris]

That's me, Crocodile Dundee. :D


Slashing isn't the only attack with a sword,There is also slapping and hacking technigues that can be applied to it. A Hanbo or Jo is probably the best all around I want to take it up pretty soon.

[Adam]

Short staff isn't it?

[JediMasterChris]

Stabbing techniques can be applied to a stick but it won't penetrate the same way, if you want to stab with a stick you should aim for certain target areas like the stomach, chest, sternum, and face. If a stick is heavy you could try for a hack to the collar bone or to the face, lighter sticks aren't as good for this.

[JediMasterChris]

Short staff isn't it?


I'm not sure if my memory is correct but a Hanbo is 3 feet and a Jo is 4 and a bo is 6 feet.

[Adam]

To get back to the original question: Is it useful to learn weapon fighting for self defense today?

[pgm316]

As Yoda said, yes it is. Look around think what you could use. And not only that, some will say weapons training increases your speed/timing.

[YODA]

Sure it is. In fact I'd say is vital.

[Sc0tsg1t]

Weapons training is vital I believe for the martial artist. The training itself (whatever it may be with) will aid the spacial awareness of the exponent and improve reaction time and speed. In my case i also find it helps my 'empty hands' skills. After training with weapons, and the adrenalin rush you get from that, hands and legs seem to move that bit slower.

Not that by looking at the state of my face you could of course agree to that.

[Cudgel]

its vital if only for the fact that you should know how to fight against weapons.

You never know when some nut job weilding a cheapie katana will come charging at you. It may be life saving to know how to at least disarm the nut.

And wepons do move so much faster than an empty hand ,mostly,
I can swing a stick or a sword faster than I kick or punch. A

And there is that whole crocodile dundee scene as mentioned earlier
Me to mugger with a switch blade : nice knife but this here is what I carry *pulls out a long sword* now run along befroe I get annoyed

:D

[Spike]

Are you sure you can swing a sword fatsre than you punch.

If you can swing a sword faster than you punch then your arms must weigh more than your sword.

[JediMasterChris]

Don't forget that sword attacks use a different motion than punching, chances are that if he swings faster than he punches his thrust attacks arent that strong because they use nearly the same motion as punching. Or since he doesn't use his fists that often he just simply isn't used to punching.

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Spike
Are you sure you can swing a sword fatsre than you punch.

If you can swing a sword faster than you punch then your arms must weigh more than your sword.

I think the point of the "sword swings faster than a punch" has more to do with physcical dynamics than with physical attributes.

If I can move my hand at 70 mph, for instance, then if I put a blade (or stick, or anything else in my hand), then swing my hand in an arc at 70 mph, then the end of the weapon will be moving faster than my hand (how much faster depends on the length of the weapon).

Mike

[JediMasterChris]

I agree.

[Cudgel]

exactly I suck at a single handed trusting motion and I tend to fight with both hands on my weapon so its my shoulders and hips that do most of the work. Even if I use only one hand I can more effeiciently use my entire body to add force.

And yes the velocity of the tip of a weapon when its being swoung at such and such speed at the handle is much greater.

[Spike]

I still don`t believe you can swing a sword and land a blow before you can land a punch, especially if you`re using a long sword

[JediMasterChris]

If the long sword is heavy it could increase speed.

[JediMasterChris]

He is an SCA guy, do you expect him to be able to punch hard or fast?

[Spike]

If the long sword is heavy it tkaes time to get it moving, doesn`t it?

I have no training in weapons like this, so forgive me if I seem naive, but doesn`t it tkae time to get the weapon moving?

[JediMasterChris]

Mabey, not with my katana...his longsword might be heavier.
What does that have to do with punching speed?

[Spike]

well, if it takes time to get the sword moving, because it weighs a lo, wouldn`t you be able to move your hand alone, much quicker?

[YODA]

Seems like people are discussing two different "speeds" here...

1. How fast it's travelling when it gets there

2. How soon it gets there

These are not the same thing

[pgm316]

As Musashi said, to think of a strike as fast or slow, is not the true way, or some gubbins like that :p

How soon it gets there is the key!

[Cudgel]

first what with this SCA bashing I can punch...sorta...kinda..not..very..well..okay your right SCA sucks ;)

Second the weight of a longsword is neglible being between 2 and 3 and half pounds. and if its weiled with twoo hands it is quick fast.

third Yoda has a point. even if the tip velicity is greater than your hands that does mean it will hit sooner it just menas that it hits harder.

fourth there is the fact that the sowrd or any handheld wepon asides from a knife gives you more reach. and example would be a mighty reinsance twohanded sword weioghing about 4 pounds and being 6 ft in total length. THis is relativley slow hand weapon but because it has about 4 ft of sharp steel some part of it will hit as some one tries to land an unarmed attack

Does this make semse it ight not as I am pressed for time have job interveiw in a few mins have to go fast now.

[GrizzlyAdams]

Firstly, training with a range of weapons increases a variety of skills including spacing, timing, kime, both irimi ( entering ) and tenkan ( turning ), sabaki ( body movement ).... all of wich make you a tad more handy at keeping yourself in a healthy upright unharmed kinda living state.

Secondly, a great many weapons techniques attack the limbs just as often as the centre mass. gun training targets center mass - because shooting someone in the arm is likely to piss them off rather than make them surrender.

nothing like a batton ( of pretty much any length ) across the hand ( breaks easily) wrist ( breaks ) knee, foot or other extremity. and after all if they're wondering if their knee/hand/foot etc wil ever work again, you can proceed to bash them a little further.

kobudo kumite is not about stick bashy bashy. its combat - with the emphasis on making strikes to the opponent RATHER than his weapon of chioce.

see the film Yojimbo. the opening fight where Toshiro Mifune fights three miscreants - and Arm off, a leg off and a spleenechtomy.

also remember weapons are a means to an end. I have seen advanced practitioners get disarmed by a mistake in kumite - or indeed have found themselves inside a usefull range for the bo, and have then moved directly to karate or grapling etc.

on the subject of kobudo kumite - free sparing ??? you're kidding arnt you. unless you wear serious body/head armour - better than kendo OR have lots of rules OR have foam weapons ( thus defeating the effect of reality on combat - and making the kumite into a slap fest ) thats why almost all of it is prearranged. still - ive seen someone loose teeth, break fingers, break wrist, have his eye sliced open by the end of a bo( very lucky not to loose it). ALL in controlled arranged kumite.

Thirdly,
weapons of improvisation. as Ive already said - weapons are a means to an end. the end being the disablement of the opponent(s) in the most efficient way.

[GrizzlyAdams]

Oh yes.

WEAPONS are a means to an end, not an end in themsleves.

to wit - dont retain a weapon because you have it. be prepared to adapt/and alter your combat mindset.

dont throw weapons - its kinda like having an unloaded gun in a gun fight.

throwing weapons is a very specialised skill - and shaken are about the only thing you can learn to throw properly. ( although Sensei Fujita - Koga Ryu headmaster can and did throw anything - including heavy steel Sai: but he did practise 50 years or so )

a Bo is no bleeding use when you're close enough to headbut the opponenet. - and ive seen people get that close in kumite - because of a change in timing, or in the sabaki.

:)

[Spike]

My only point was, you`d be able to land a punch before you`d be able to land a blow from a bloody great sword.

Apologies if I`ve confused anyone

[Sc0tsg1t]

My take on this is that a weapon increases length of hitting limb. Depending on the starting distance of the two combatants during this altercation the person with the greater potential hitting reach should get the first strike. This will of course be off-set by evasive ability, countering technique and speed of opponents reaction and it will be unlikely they will get a second strike but the initial impetus will be with the armed exponent.

[Darkflight]

I think it's Kruv M'Gha (sp?) that trains with 'real' weapons such as glass bottles, pool cues etc.

And Jo training won't help that much with cues, because of the weighting.

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Darkflight
I think it's Kruv M'Gha (sp?) that trains with 'real' weapons such as glass bottles, pool cues etc.

And Jo training won't help that much with cues, because of the weighting.

Actually, it's spelled "Krav Maga."

In my estimation, jo training (or bo training) will help with a cue stick. If a person's trained to any significant level with the staff, then the weight difference won't be a factor. As soon as they start moving, they'll reflexively adjust for the difference in weight and balance without much problem. There will be some things that won't work well, but others that work better. And if they have ever really considered fighting with their training then, likely, they will have considered the use of a pool cue and taken into consideration these differences.

I should add, though, that I'm not talking about someone who has run a few jo and/or bo forms ... but, rather, I'm talking about someone who has trained with the jo and/or bo with serious thoughts as to how to fight. They've studied the underlying principles that make the tool effective and a difference in weight or balance isn't going to throw them that much.

Mike

[Cudgel]

Originally posted by Spike
My only point was, you`d be able to land a punch before you`d be able to land a blow from a bloody great sword.

Apologies if I`ve confused anyone

you didnt confuse me. I understood completely.

BUT you dont realise a very important thing about a weapon such as a longsword or any weaon really is that it has greater reach than even a kick. NOw I dont have much expereice fighting with a weapon againt an uarmed opponent, but what little I have done against peole who are rather fast and good unarmed get 'maimed' just by fighting very defensivly ie parrying all strikes against me. ANd once I get my slef settle into my new appartment I am going down to the local TKD dojo and see if I can interest some black belts to spar aginst me.

And another thing if you weer able to close the distance enough to punch me my bloody great sword will most likely embeded in your torso

[Spike]

But what YOU don`t realise is that a weapon means you`ve got more mass to move

F=Ma you`ve only got so much force your arms can apply, if there`s extra mass, you can`t move them as fast. A punch will land before your sword

[Cudgel]

extra mass means greater inertia and hence more force IS applied to a strike.

Spike how about this find some reenactors and see if ohe or several will particpate in this experiment. Challage them to land a blow on you before you do them come back and tell us of you findings.

IN a fight timing and distance are key not mass or speed.

Ofcourse against some one who has no skill witha weapon can be most easily beaten by some one with a little unarmed skill but againts two egully or near egually skilled combatants, one with a weapon and one unarmed the one the weapon will win more often than not. MAn is a great tool user and weapons are tools to kill other things.

And have you ever swung a sword? aginst a moveing target? With the proper weight?

[KickChick]

I just finished reading this story about an Australian hijacker that used wooden stakes in an attack on an airliner.
The sharpened wooden stakes were both about six inches long and the attacker was on a Qantas flight, rushed the cockpit in an attempt to take it over. He stabbed two cabin crew members shouting threats and rushed the cockpit.
No sky marshals were on board and the cockpit door was not reinforced but locked. The man was subdued by passengers and a couple of crew members. So the point here is....

Almost "anything" can be used as a weapon, you NEED to train to defend against weapons!!

[sfjohn]

OK, you guys just woke the tiger. I am a huge fan of wepons, I have studied almost all of them, but I have definately studied most of the conventional weapons, save the few that are uclear in scope, but I have studied them all. I love weapons and ever since I was born I was throwing something at someone or hitting someone with something. This is my mentality so weapons were natural to me, and still are no matter what the weapon.

I have longed for the day that someone says give me all your weapons, because besides the obvious ones i have on me at all times, I have so many others. I have my belt, my shirt, my pants, my wallet, some things in my wallet, my keys, my shoes, my socks, my lighter, not to mention the things attached to my body like the arms and legs. I am a walking battleship just like the rest of you. Not only do people have to worry about the things that are on us as weapons, they have to think of the things in our immediate vacinity as weapons.

One of my favorite weapons is a glass bottle because while it is in-tact it is a striking weapon like a stick; however, once it breaks it has become a knife type of weapon. It now cuts and stabs what it touches. I was actually hooked by the art I study because of the fact that my teacher told me he could teach me how to kill with a toothpick, for this reason I stayed and am so loyal to the art, because what he promised, he delivered.

I see everything as a weapon. Don't even guide me into a Home Depot because there are so many weapons from my perspective there that I have to coreograph fight scenes in my mind. I am a weapons person, this is why I learned the basics of flying and tried to learn the basics of manuvering a tank over the internet (unfortunately unsucessfully). I personally want to know the essence of every weapon out there; Iwant to know how it works, what makes it work and what are the basic components to sucsessfully using that weapon.

Well, before I get off track, living in a metropolis are I definately understand the need for weapons training. I put everything I have into it when practicing the art of the weapon. I consiously look at the things around me and think about how I can use them to my advantage all the time. Wether it's throwing a CD casing at my attackers eyes, or using the courd to my telephone to choke my attacker, I am always thinking what weapons are around me. What can I say, i'm a weapons person. I'm the type that brings a gun to a knife fight, Why? because i want to ensure that I win (the key being I win, in my train of though " I Live").

-John

[KickChick]

Good post!....
I hope to never bump into you in the aisle of Home Depot on one of your bad days!!:D

... So like I said "anything" can be used as a weapon.

So in your opinion, should ordinary objects be offered as weapons training ... ? even more useful than 'real' weapons training?

[Cudgel]

sfjohn

YOU SCARE ME!!!!!!!!!!




I mean you ROCK yeah thats what I meant yeah yeah

*runs and hides*

[sfjohn]

Yes kickchick, even using ordinary house hold items should be taught as weapons training. Why, because at that moment we are thinking how it works best to attack someone or oops i meant defend with it. So for instance if you are teaching how to throw powdered clorox bathroom powder into someone's eyes, the powder should be treated with the same respect as you would give teaching any other weapon such as a sword or gun. This will also help reinforce the proper handiling of weapons by students. So with that said everybody break out the clenser, get bob the punching bag and practice throwing the stuff in his eyes. Have fun. :)

[Sc0tsg1t]

I agree wholeheartedly with your thoughts on weapon training. In my younger years I was systematically taught the usefulness of household items in a combat situation by a per room basis. I can assure people that a toilet roll can cause damage and a fish slice leaves nasty weals on bare flesh.

Oh the memories you have brought back.

As an aside sfjohn you mention using bob. I have been tempted to buy one of these for my home gym seeing as they are only a couple of hundred pounds to purchase. How do they favour response wise to your strikes? Are they like the heavy bag or rubbery or what? I ask you from total ignorance on the subject of bob. So please be nice :)

[Cudgel]

NOT IN THE FACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


From the tick Arthurs battle cry with a new meaning

[sfjohn]

Bob the punching dummy is a rubbery substance. Of course Bob does have his problems, we have persoally gone through about 4 of them in a two year span. This means the rubber starts to tear, usually first at the base of the nose then in other spots. Eventually you will probably knock his nose out. Some of the other problems i find is that it doesn't have a whole body with arms and legs, but hey you gota work with what you got. right?

The truly positive aspects of bob are that it has some very key points of attack on him and is very good for teaching students to accurately attack these points for instance you have the pressure points such as the temple, corner of the jaw, tip of the chin, the eyes and the pressure points around them. you have a good bridge of the nose, well at least before you knock his nose out. You have the jugular and carotid arteries, the pressure points on the collar bone, a good pit of the throat as well as the v shape episternal bone jugular notch as well as a very good soler plexius. On the back you have the base of the skull and his spinal column to attack as well as a place for bobs kidneys.

My recommendation for using bob is to place dots, using a black marcker to point out these valuable target to students. If you do this with your young students, as they grow they will have very accurate (potentially deadly) techniques. In your older students you will see there improvement in sparring when they are knocking the wind and lihts out of each other.

Bob is ok for knife training even though it leaves out a few major targets like the circumflex artery of the arm pit and the right and left common iliac arteries contained in pelvis and thighs. But over all you got you big kahunas, i.e the heart, jugular, subclavian, temples, throat, kidney and so on. All in all Bob is a great training aid, and my favorite thing to beat up. It's also good for practicing good choking skills, and no i'm not a Bob salesman, and if your name is bob out there I don't mean you.
Well now that I look back on the post I didn't mean for this to turn into an anatomy lesson but that's what you'll get sometimes if you get me going on martial arts. :)
-John

[Sc0tsg1t]

Don't worry about the anatomy lesson John, I followed you :)

Thanks for the heads up on it and I do believe one is on its way to my home in the next few days (depending on the reliability of the courier ;))


I shall make sure I take care of his poor nose. Must be a genetic disorder.

Poor chap. :D

[Solane]

I believe training in weapons is important as it teaches you their strengths and weaknesses.

So if you come up against someone with a weapon that you have trained with, you will have an understanding of how the attacker is likely to use it against you. Weather you have a weapon or not, also always assume that the person is a master of the weapon he is using. So when you find him on the floor in pain it will be a nice surprise rather than you ending up on the floor thinking he’s just a punk he shouldn’t be able to do that.

Where I use to live in the UK there was a small park with an ornamental garden and small maze near by. My brother and his friend both black belts at the time, went in and were practicing weapons training especially the Hanbo against each other and defenses against baseball type attacks. It was summer and the park wasn’t well known as it use to be private. The point was a huge gang fight kicked off outside it, police were called weapons were taken people arrested. The police stopped my dad going alone into the park to find my brother and his friend as the fighting had moved into the park. They found my brother and his friend near the entrance watching the police arrest everyone. My brothers weapons were safe in their traveling bag and secure.
It turned out a group of about 12 lads with weapons had walked into the area my brother was training in, they had moved to start attacking him stopped and watched him and his friend attacking each other full force with hanbo’s thought better of it and walked away.
My brother and his friend had known they were there but had ignored them and carried on training. They were both a little disappointed that they had not had a chance to try out a few techniques, but over all happy that they didn’t have to either.

Sorry if I have posted that last bit before. But I think it is a good example of learning to use a weapon so that you don’t have to in real life.

[Knight_Errant]

SfJohn, Why don't you try gardening stores? the hideous arsenal at your disposal THERE is truly amazing. RE the longsword/punch in the face debate: interestingly, the romans were able to totally outclass celtic fighters because they used a shorter, tougher sword. Reach isn't everything!

[Cudgel]

Agreed but you have to look into the styles the celts and romans used.
The romans used a shorter weapon and a fairly large shield and were in close formations. So the use a longer weapon wopuld actually be a hinderance. They could beat the celts becuase they fought organized unlike how the celts tended to fight.

And they were profesional soldiers unlike the celts were, so skill is very important and can overcome things like reach speed and strength.

[Nimrook]

In all truth though, even though weapons can come in use, my boxing teacher said: "The only weapons you can't drop, forget, or have taken away from you are your hands". So I never bothered with weapons training, though I'm sure it can be useful in the right situations. And I must admit, it would be pretty fun to know how to use an arsenal of silent, yet exceptionally deadly weapons.

[Andrew Green]

If you never train with them, you won't ever learn to deal with them. But more importantly, it is fun!

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Cudgel
Agreed but you have to look into the styles the celts and romans used.
The romans used a shorter weapon and a fairly large shield and were in close formations. So the use a longer weapon wopuld actually be a hinderance. They could beat the celts becuase they fought organized unlike how the celts tended to fight.

And they were profesional soldiers unlike the celts were, so skill is very important and can overcome things like reach speed and strength.

Yet the Celts stopped the Romans!

http://www.egri.co.uk/smileys/knockknock.gif

[YODA]

Nice Smiley :D

http://www.egri.co.uk/smileys/wizard.gif

[JediMasterChris]

Woah! How do you do that?!

[Andy Murray]

What?

http://www.egri.co.uk/smileys/phaser.gif

[YODA]

Dunno

http://www.egri.co.uk/smileys/starwars.gif

[JediMasterChris]

Riiight...

[Cudgel]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
Yet the Celts stopped the Romans!

http://www.egri.co.uk/smileys/knockknock.gif

Sometimes and sometimes not.
It is true that the poeple the Romans were most afriad of were teh Celtic tribes, but sometimes the Celts got their butts kicks. Jusdt like the Roman were thrashed evry no and again..
its ferocity versus training thing, maybe.

And another thing one casued the downfall of the Roman Empire?
Barbarian tribes migrating to Europe displacing the Celts into the Empire. THose damn Vandals

[sfjohn]

it's not your hands but you mind which is the most important ;)

[Reiki]

I think the main thrust/point of this discussion is that a long weapon such as a broom or a bo keeps an attacker further away from you and your vulnerable areas. [pardon the pun]

If u can keep them away then u are less likely to get seriously hurt IMHO.

I liked the ideas given by sfjohn about looking for weapons everywhere and am now going to start moving around the house and farm in a whole new manner!!

I'm just picturing the *other* use of a pitchfork and a whole lot of my horse gear including using sharpened horseshoes as moonknives....

So where do I get hold of this Bob character?? I'd love to have one of those to thrash about with!! Can u use him for grappling too??

:D

Picturing some spectacular chokeouts... and arm breaking scenarios!!
I think we definitely need one for the dojo!

[guran]

Since many of the movements with weapons are the same as open-hand martial arts, consistent training with weapons should improve your open-hand techniques. Doing a whole bunch of repetitive movements with a kilogram of metal (sai) in each hand for instance, will eventually teach you to use your hips to throw the technique (or to hate the sai ;) ). The same applies to the other weapons - you need focus and control because the weapon is either heavy, long, sharp, pointy, flexible, etc. If you grow comfortable with your techniques with the weapon in your hand, you should be smokin' when you do your open-hand techniques.

[undead_ninja]

Okay, First of all about that thing about weapons being everywere... you could always pick up a rock or stick or something heavy to make your hand heavier and blows harder. I think theres a name for it but I'm not sure what it is? :confused: :confused:

Secondly and MOST IMPORTANTLY you never know if youll be abducted by a mad man who wants to destroy the world unless you can beat him with the weapon of your choice and opens up a wall with every weapon imaginable :woo: , and pulls down a spear or something and starts twirling it around. then itll be up to you to save the world but if you dont know how to youse any of the weaponsthen your screwed and so is the rest of the world :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[Stolenbjorn]

Excactly how useful is it to train with conventional weapons (staff, knife, club, nunchucks, swords etc.) for self-defense situations? I mean, it has become illegal to carry most weapons (at least it is here) except for small knives. Can you train using weapons in defense nowadays, or is it more of a sport?

And no, I don't know anything about weapons training.

I study weastern martial arts, and to me, it's all about the thrill of trying to find out how things were done than how much this will help me or not help me on the streets. As a mattar of fact, I'm just as interested in the costumes, normes, habbits and hobbies of the "medieval/viking"(I do both) comunities as the weapons-aspect of it.

But I guess training with weapons allso includes learning how to fight theese weapons unarmed, so I guess I'll stand a better chanse against a drug addict with an attitude and a Katana than many others :cool:

[Cudgel]

Secondly and MOST IMPORTANTLY you never know if youll be abducted by a mad man who wants to destroy the world unless you can beat him with the weapon of your choice and opens up a wall with every weapon imaginable :woo: , and pulls down a spear or something and starts twirling it around. then itll be up to you to save the world but if you dont know how to youse any of the weaponsthen your screwed and so is the rest of the world :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
And that is why I train with weapons. :D
Barring you know the ocaissional whole in space and time that sends you back to the middle ages or something.

[Shaolin Dragon]

Secondly and MOST IMPORTANTLY you never know if youll be abducted by a mad man who wants to destroy the world unless you can beat him with the weapon of your choice and opens up a wall with every weapon imaginable :woo: , and pulls down a spear or something and starts twirling it around. then itll be up to you to save the world but if you dont know how to youse any of the weaponsthen your screwed and so is the rest of the world :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:


What if you ARE that madman? :woo: :woo:

[Brad Ellin]

Back to the original poster's question..
To me, the usefulness of weapons training, besides what everyone else has discussed, is that it enables me to understand better how to use my own body. Having a weapon in one's hands can change everything physical about he way you fight. Distance, timing, attitude. Especially attitude. You have a weapon in your hands and think you can't be beat, and you opponent takes it from you and proceeds to thrash you with it. But, hey, that's one reason to learn weapons. To learn to defend against them. A weapon is just an extension of your own body. If you cannot control your body, you cannot control a weapon. Using a weapon and practicing your katas with it can show you where you are weak in your technique.
One experiment we tried in class was with a hanbo. Practiced several unarmed takedown techniques. THEN the same techniques qith a hanbo. Difference was, the hanbo could not touch your uke. These were not full force techniques, rather a demonstration of how proper body mechanics affects your movements.

[Li Nan-Lung]

At my Kung-Fu School, we begin by learning the Cudgel (Or Staff, if you prefer). It's in the hopes of in a Self Defence situation, that we can grab a broom, or some other similar object. But, after a while of training, we began to notice that a few techniques were remarkably similar to our unarmed techniques.
We found that by practicing with the Weapon, our unarmed techniques improved, and if there was a cudgel around, we would have an even greater advantage.

But this is just the cudgel. While the Broadsword may have similar techniques to the Cudgel, you are unlikely to find a Broadsword-equivilant weapon lying around.

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Also, another thing. Don't forget the use of 'with resonable force'. If someone comes up, and tries to stab you with a knife, and you disarm the enemy and use the knife on him, possibly killing him, you are the one that is in greater trouble.

[Canemaker]

The best weapon is the one you have with you. I like canes because they are legal to carry. The question is who wants to carry a cane or anyother weapon with the all the time just in case. I carry my combat cane allot but it gets to be a pain when I need two hands. Seeing the dilema we have produced a prototype of a quick release holster for a combat cane. You can now carry your cane or anyother round handled weapon on your belt. Look for a production model soon