the mid section bluez

[wayofthedragon]

Okay all you flat stomach, 6 pack having , ab toned, muscular mid section people...... Start pouring in the tips, secrets, any knowledge that you have for those of us who kill ourselves with exercises when we don't have to. what can you tell us? What do you do?

[Mo Lung]

Heaps of ab exercises along with your regular resistance and cardio trianing, a strict diet to maintain an extremely low % of bodyfat and genetics. Two out of three you can do something about. ;)

[Greg-VT]

Yeah, and "kill yourself". :D

[Bon]

"Abs are made in the kitchen, not in the gym".

A six pack is just a low body fat percentage, so your muscles are visible - more exercises won't help it, less fat covering your abs will :D

[Cain]

1/ Crunch 'em

2/ Crunch 'em

3/ Crunch 'em

Oh and almost forgot -

4/ Crunch 'em :D

|Cain|

[AsSaSiN]

:cry: ive lost a lot of weight recently, but i can remember some one saying exactly the same thing. You can train all you want, but your muscles wont show when they are still covered with a juicy layer of flab. Now i eat museli in the morning :D not for health purposes obviously, just because it tastes so damn good :D

[KickChick]

Originally posted by Bon
"Abs are made in the kitchen, not in the gym".

... and I just so happen to have a link to a site!
Abs are made in the kitchen, not in the gym (http://www.fatlosstips.com/abs.html)

cain_charlie .... you're right!!
"the most effective exercises for working the abs must involve a "scrunching" type contraction, like an accordion"

I've had 3 kids... and in that particular case ab muscles need to be strengthend and pulled tight once again...!
There is a difference between "flat" and "6 pack" .... for women flat is more desireable attaining more of a well defined rectus abdomus whereas men prefer the ripple-ly look of a 6 pack.

[Knight_Errant]

the teenbodybuilding section on abs is good on this. You will occasionally get jumped by really crappy popups browsing this site: http://www.teenbodybuilding.com. If you see some of the stuff I did, I advise you to report it. I don't know where you'd go to do this.

[Adam]

Do you want to get stronger muscles for impact or just have visible abs to attract the ladies?

Cain_Charlie's got it figured out it seems :)

[Knight_Errant]

heh heh adam has a point. Incidentally, I was told once.. 'the best way to strengthen your stomach is getting hit. You can do situps and situps and situps. You can have a perfect sixpack. But you won't have the strongest stomach, 'cause you're not getting hit'. I tend to disagree, but it's a point I suppose...

By the way, use the word 'toned' again, and people might start having seizures...

[Adam]

I certainly would! :D

How about if I made situps and someone would kick me in the gut once for every crunch? That would combine the two and also be pretty damn hard and take a lot of willpower.
I also know a karate trainer who would sit up in the ladders in the gym hall and drop those massive leather balls you use for training on the stomach of his students lying down on the ground. Supposedly...it hurt.

Anyway, I'm not really sure the getting hit theory is correct. I have gotten pretty hard stomach muscles by just crunching away for some six months now. And I'm still to fleshy to have anything but a 2pac :D.
I think getting hit is the most important psychological aspect of training though.

I'd like some instruction on how to make my situps harder, as it's boring to lie on ground doing those insane amounts of 'em. Any tips?

[KickChick]

Toned.... t o n e d .... TONED!!!! TONED!!!!!!!! :eek: :eek: :eek: :D

When you develop muscle, and when you have a low enough body fat so that this muscle can be seen this is definition. So, the less fat you have covering your muscles, the more "tone" you will appear to have.

[pgm316]

Sounds great for internal injuries :D

Its more diet, problem is you risk loosing muscle mass if you diet to hard!

[Knight_Errant]

Adam, try some or all of the following:
HANGING LEG RAISES
hang from a pullup bar and bring your legs up, bending at your pelvis only and not swinging to minimise momentum.Repeat.
LYING LEG RAISES
lie down and raise your legs to a little off the ground. Bring them from this position to a higher one, beinding only at the pelvis. Repeat.
EVIL CRUNCHES
jam your arse right up to a bed or chair and bend your legs, lying them over the object. crunch. Repeat.
THERE'S MORE LATER

[KickChick]

Originally posted by Adam
I'd like some instruction on how to make my situps harder, as it's boring to lie on ground doing those insane amounts of 'em. Any tips?

Do "crunches". Doing full sit-ups is fairly inefficient at targeting the abs but works the hip flexors primarily. During a sit-up, the hip flexors are doing most of the work and the abs are just stabilizing.
Crunch!!!
Lie on your back, with knees bent, feet flat ... small of back planted firmly against floor.
Cross arms over chest or lightly rest hands behind the head (don't pull on your neck). Lift chin a bit to ceiling.
Raise shoulders several inches from the ground, keeping your feet and lower back flat on the floor. Exhale as you come up, inhale as you lower back down.
Keep your movements slow and controlled, feeling the contraction in abs only as fast movements do not work the abs effectively.

Oh, and you don't need to do insane amounts either!!!
Ever heard of "Quality and not Quantity"?????:D

[Adam]

"But I do those" he yelled!

I still do several hundred of these when I'm bored. And I don't even think the evil crunches are so evil anymore, I've done so many of the blasted things! I like situps with legs in the air better anyway.

Aren't there any excercises that even rock-hard people can only do about 50 of?

(Alternatively, I don't want to buy those situp bags you hold behind your head. has anyone ever made a working one?)

[KickChick]

ah ok I see....
Looks like you need to change up your abdominal routine and you may want to look into working with a stabilit/medicine ball.
(Yoda might want to intervene here!)
You'd be working the muscles from a new angle as a result of the additional Range of Motion (ROM) from using the ball. Typical 'ab' exercises, such as crunches, leg raises, etc., only work the abs over a specific/limited range. For example, when doing a crunch, you're only moving the abs over a short 6 - 8" distance and there is no stretch involved.

You can also try the power wheel (http://www.lifeline-usa.com) .... some good ab equipment listed.

Here's one I do..... I hold myself between two chairs (head on one, feet on the other) using the strength of my abs and will also do back bends (good for ma training as well) while kneeling.

Even pushups will work your abs and "planks", which is a yoga movement.

Another....Sit on floor. Keep legs extended but don't lock knees. SLOWLY lower your back to the floor, one vertebrae at a time (using your abs to control your descent) until you are lying down. DO NOT LIFT YOUR FEET OFF THE FLOOR. During your descent, stop at any point again by using your abs. When you are proficient in the movement, raise your knees up incrementally, bringing your feet closer and closer to your buttocks as you get stronger in the movement.

[Adam]

The last excersise sound nice. I'll try it out. thanks.

What's a medicine ball? One of those big leathery balls I mentioned earlier?

I do however get the heebie-jeebies from looking at excersise equipment, so the site wasn't very helpful to me- I like to train muscle against muscle.

[KickChick]

yeah the medicine ball is listed as one of the products on that site (usually they go up from 2 pounds to around 10 pounds) ... actually they are 50% off now there)

Stability balls are those giant balls you can use for power throws and ab work.
Don't dismiss "equipment" .... most of the stuff ofered on this particular site is truly functional especially for the martial artist.

Glad you liked that exercise... it is a killer.... try doing 50!!!:eek:

[r4bid]

Adam you want to know some exercises that even fit people will have trouble with? Check out some of the advanced pilates mat stuff, it is crazy! I do a basic pilates workout and after 20 minutes of working nothing by my abs, back and legs I am basically dead.
Hell I still can't do one of the exercises on the tape I have(a weird cross over crunch that also involves the legs)

[Knight_Errant]

the medicine ball thing is a much better idea than getting kicked in the stomach. The way I see it, it's not midsection strength that matters as much here as precise midsection conditioning- obviously if you are training to get hit and take it, and getting hit actually does provide resistance training (which is very probable, given the way you are meant to tense your abs), then that's the best way to do it.

[Cain]

Err....first I think you should learn to tighten your abs b'fore you do any "conditioning" unless you wanna damage your organs

And the best way to learn to tighten them is isometric exercises and lots o' crunches :D

There was a thread by KC where I had listed a few exercises...see if you can find it.

|Cain|

[KickChick]

Originally posted by cain_charlie
There was a thread by KC where I had listed a few exercises...see if you can find it.

|Cain|

Ab Training (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2465) :)

[Cain]

The link queen did it I swear!!! :D

|Cain|

[Knight_Errant]

Err....first I think you should learn to tighten your abs b'fore you do any "conditioning" unless you wanna damage your organs
Yeah (nods) like "they way you're meant to tense your abs" (nods), like I (nods)SAID....

[Cain]

(which is very probable, given the way you are meant to tense your abs), then that's the best way to do it.

Oops!!! Sorry bud, missed it :D

|Cain|

[Knight_Errant]

'ss fine. Maybe I shouldn't use brackets with such abandon...

[Knight_Errant]

incidentally, at this juncture I would like to introduce the idea of back training in conjunction with midsection training. If you are new to this idea, get it sorted.

[Adam]

I'm not. But thanks anyway.

[Knight_Errant]

Just throwing it in the air for anyone who happens to read this thread, really. Especially younger guys.

[Mo Lung]

Conditioning and ab muscle size are not the same thing. You should do heaps of crunches, leg raises, opposite elbow to knee sit-ups, yadda yadda yadda, to strengthen and improve the size of the rectus abdominus muscle and the surrounding muscles (obliques, etc.). You should use iron body skills for conditioning - try using a partner and doing round kicks into each others midsection, medicine ball drops, etc. One mad exercise we used to do was have everyone lying on the floor with their shoulders off the ground and straight legs raised about 12 inches. Then the person at the end would walk along the line of people, stepping onto their abs only. They would lie down at the end and the next person would go. Eventually we had people running across everyone else. In today's litigious society, however, you may want to avoid this exercise! ;)

And then you have the 6-pack, which is all about bodyfat.

Therefore:

Lots of exercises = strong, developed abs
Lots of conditioning = abs able to take big hits
Very low bodyfat = visible 6-pack

The first two are important for a MAist. The last one is vanity, but go for it if you're so inclined. Just remember that an extremely low bodyfat % is potentially not that good for you.

[Greg-VT]

Originally posted by Mo Lung
Just remember that an extremely low bodyfat % is potentially not that good for you.

Just a question about this... or rather a statement open to an answer.....

I can understand why having a low BF% may not be good for you.

Although, would'nt it be possible to safely have a very low BF% if you get enough fat intake during the day? Would getting a perfect amount of fat be ok?

I.E Only have an intake exactly equal to the amount of what you burn each day. Then so not adding fat the body, but having enough otherwise.

???:confused:

[KickChick]

Fat is stored in special tissue called adipose (a fancy word for bodyfat), which is a honeycomb design of cells... each cell shrinks or expands like a miniature balloon, depending on the balance between our intake and expenditure of energy. So excess of bodyfat happens when you take in more energy (food/calories) than you spend on a consistent basis.

Fats stored in the body can be made from any food not just fats....(carbohydrates, proteins, or fats). Eating a greater share of carbs than you need releases a surge of insulin in the body, which is used to convert most of theses carbohydrates into fat. When food is eaten, it travels to the stomach and intestines. Enzymes break down the food into glucose, amino acids, and minute droplets of fat. The fats travel to the liver, where they are processed to form fatty acids and glycerol. From the liver, the fats enter the circulatory system where they can be used for energy by many organs.
Npw if you consume excess fats they will be stored in the fat cells. When more energy is needed, fats are released. If the need continues, the cells will shrink, but the nucleus remains the same.
You see, as your body stores more fat, the number of fat cells remains the same ... each fat cell simply gets bigger!

Bodyfat is really nothing more than stored energy, although certainly not the optimal source of energy.) Unfortunately for most of us, our bodies have a tremendous capacity to store this energy... on our hips, buttocks, waist, backs, or thighs

[Adam]

Hehe, I feel like an energetic he-man after hearing that. Beware my fat-induced prowess!

[Knight_Errant]

I do a load of crunches, so I might possibly have a six pack under this blubber, but god help me I can't say no to cheese on toast or mountains of curry and fish and chips!

[YODA]

Here's the bigest tip for a visible six pack ......

Abs are made in the KITCHEN ..... not in the GYM.

[KickChick]

yep.... you can say that AGAIN!!

(check the previous page.........)

:D

[YODA]

Originally posted by KickChick
yep.... you can say that AGAIN!!

(check the previous page.........)

:D

Here's the bigest tip for a visible six pack ......

Abs are made in the KITCHEN ..... not in the GYM.


...... people still won't wanna hear it though :D

[wayofthedragon]

Bon said this: "Abs are made in the kitchen, not in the gym".

Assasin said this: "You can train all you want, but your muscles wont show when they are still covered with a juicy layer of flab. Now i eat museli in the morning not for health purposes obviously, just because it tastes so damn good "

Now allow me to say a few words:D

I have come to realize that what you eat, when you eat, and how you eat has a great deal to do with the whole matter, maybe even moreso than exersise. Assasin o' pal. Keep eating in the mornings. I have learned thats when the biggest meal should should be eaten, not at night or late in the evening when you get ready to go to bed. The biggest meal should be eaten in the morning. A sensible lunch, and a light supper or none at all. Now if you sleep in the morning and work at night, you'll have to do it differently. But this way I mentioned, it will help. Ofcourse exersise also to accompany this. But I beleive if you're eating wrong for your body, then no matter how much exercise you do, it will be more difficult. what troubles me is that a lot of people use all kind of drugs and pills to try and get fit fast, yet have to worry about all mannor of side effects, in which a number of people have already died from. I hate that people have to go thru these kinds of things, all just to look fit. As for me, I'm not a big guy, actually, I'm small, however as with most people, my mid section is my problem area.
...............................So, just keep rollin in the tips and secrets:D

[Knight_Errant]

Listen to the above guy. Not on all issues, just on this one.

[wayofthedragon]

He He......I minored in health science:D

[Mo Lung]

This is all good advice.

YODA - I hear ya. No one else will, but I do! ;)

On the low bodyfat %/health issue, the point I was trying to make is that some people are so obsessed with reducing their bodyfat that they end up with terrible energy deficiencies, dehydration, etc., so pursuing low BF may not be good for you.

And just in case people are missing it, this entire thread was brought to you by the message:

Six Pack Abs Are Made In The Kitchen, Not In The Gym!

:D

[YODA]

LOL!

Where are they made again?

[AsSaSiN]

Ok cheeers for the advice mate, that actually seems like a better idea, as i eat little during the day, but big at night. Someone said something about abs not being made in the Gym, but i can't quite remember what.....:D

[Adam]

All right, all right we HEARD it already! :D

[Cain]

Hmm....but if have never performed crunches in your life will those six packs still be visible?

I doubt it, maybe stomach muscles have to be developed before they can be visible.....also, cardio is required along with the help of the kitchen to make them visible IMO

|Cain|

[YODA]

Originally posted by Adam
All right, all right we HEARD it already! :D


Yeah - but did you LISTEN?

[KickChick]

I will listen if this guy tells me!!:D ;)

http://www.dolfzine.com/daz.jpg

[Knight_Errant]

crunchies are not the be-all and end all of ab exercises, though they are useful and the fantastic key movement. Digging your vegetable patch also does it. As does swimming, I think...

[Adam]

Swimming, no. All kinds of garden work and heavy lifting, yes.

[Knight_Errant]

I am not ***BEEEEEEEEP*** you, I think digging garden is a hell of an exercise. Full body working as a unit. You soon find out why a good worker is known as a 'strong back'...

[Greg-VT]

yeah, Just DON'T put your back into it.

[wayofthedragon]

Originally posted by Knight_errant
I am not ***beeeeep*** you, I think digging garden is a hell of an exercise. Full body working as a unit. You soon find out why a good worker is known as a 'strong back'...


I agree with that 157% pal. I know, because I have a garden in a feild across from my yard...okay, actually its my dad's.
ANyway, I go to work in it often, and depending on where and how i focus it, it feels great, like it's really working me.

[KickChick]

http://www.stumptuous.com/abmachine.gif

[Knight_Errant]

hee hee hee

[Mo Lung]

Originally posted by cain_charlie
Hmm....but if have never performed crunches in your life will those six packs still be visible?


Yes they would - assuming you had a very low BF%. The "abs" are one muscle (rectus abdominus) with tendons stretched across it which gives it the look of six "lumps". Even undeveloped abs with extremely low BF covering them look like a 6 pack.


also, cardio is required along with the help of the kitchen to make them visible IMO


Yes and no. A very low bodyfat % is required. So, what's a good way to reduce BF? Cardio, sure. And good eating!

So, what have we learned?

Abs are made in the Kitchen*, not in the gym!

*With the aid of a cardio program!


:D :D :D

[Adam]

Another....Sit on floor. Keep legs extended but don't lock knees. SLOWLY lower your back to the floor, one vertebrae at a time (using your abs to control your descent) until you are lying down. DO NOT LIFT YOUR FEET OFF THE FLOOR. During your descent, stop at any point again by using your abs. When you are proficient in the movement, raise your knees up incrementally, bringing your feet closer and closer to your buttocks as you get stronger in the movement.

Please forgive me for being unbelievably dense, but HOW exactly are you supposed to do this? Will your body be hanging in mid-air while you pull your feet towards you? And is that one rep? How do i get into position to do another rep? I did what I THINK you said, and it didn't feel hard enough. Please, Please help.:confused:

[r4bid]

its quite possible Adam, very similar to a pilates exercise I do. If you go slow enough and really have a lot of control you don't need to do too many of them. Requires a very strong center though.

[KickChick]

Originally posted by Adam
Please forgive me for being unbelievably dense, but HOW exactly are you supposed to do this?

You're excused! :D :Angel:

... like r4bid said!

And as far as what constitutes one rep -- go down (descend) and then come up (ascend) .... in same way, to start position = (one rep)

[Adam]

Oh, so you pull your feet towards you AT THE SAME TIME that you lower your body slowly to the floor?

[r4bid]

no, well you could do that but that is not what the above is describing...
keep your feet in the same place when you do it, once you get proficient at that distance move them in closer...

[Adam]

It's like slow, slow, slooooow situps/crunches then?

[r4bid]

basically, moving your feet just changes how hard it is...

[Knight_Errant]

hey, http://www.cbass.com/HardestSitup.htm. I wouldn't bother to buy the device thing, but squeezing something with your legs might work, I suppose. I tried it with an old plastic beer barrel, and it seems to work.