Rare Internal Styles

[inthespirit]

I started this thread because I want to find out if anyone practises any of the following internal styles:

Yexing Internal Boxing

Wu Ji Boxing

Wensheng Boxing

Zi Ran Men (Tsuranamen) Boxing

Songxi Neijiaquan

Liang Yi Boxing

If so, please reply, it would be most interesting to find out more about your styles.

[moondog]

isn't zi ran men also called natural style boxing?

[inthespirit]

isn't zi ran men also called natural style boxing?

Yeah, I think it is.

[NaughtyKnight]

I was wondering what the definition of internal martial arts was.

What exactly is it? Is it like fighing your inner deamons?

[inthespirit]

I was wondering what the definition of internal martial arts was.

What exactly is it? Is it like fighing your inner deamons?


This is a good explanation:

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~limttk/neijing.htm

[NaughtyKnight]

Thanks alot.:)

[Ziranmen]

I practice Zi Ran Men. What what would you like to know?

[Ziranmen]

Well, I had a look through this forum and noticed that Ziranmen has been mentioned a few times. So I'll try my best to clear a few things up.

I train at www.ziranmen.com with Sifu Liu. I've been there for about 4 and a half years. As mentioned by nzric, Sifu Liu teaches quite a few styles, but his speciality is in Liu He Boxing and Zi Ran Men. I think he picked up his extensive knowledge of various Tai chi forms during his stay at the Beijing Wushu Institute although I'm not totally sure about that.

Our style originates from the famous boxer Wan Lai Shen, who originally learnt Liu He boxing before Zi Ran Men, but also went on to study Xing Yi, Bagua and Tai chi from various masters as well. Therefore you will find a lot of concepts from these styles incorporated into most Zi ran men schools. I believe there is another branch of Zi Ran Men that stems from Du Xin Wu (Wan Lai Shen's teacher). Du Xin Wu originally learnt Lou Han Boxing before he did Zi Ran Men, so I think that version has a slightly different flavour to it.

In recent years Sifu has developed a close friendship with Grandmaster Liu Jing Ru in Beijing, who specialises in Cheng Shi style Bagua and is the lineage holder of Liu He Praying Mantis (unrelated to Liu He Boxing). So recently we've been incorporating movements from those styles as well.

Zi Ran Men is an internal martial art, but the movements are quite hard to do correctly without some previous knowledge of martial arts. Hence there is usually an emphasis of doing a external martial art first before learning Zi ran men to establish a foundation (note that both Du Xin Wu and Wan Lai Shen studied a form of Shaolin Boxing before undertaking Zi Ran Men training).

Somebody in another post mentioned conditioning with Iron Rings. I would just like to point out that conditioning with rings in Zi Ran Men is primarily an internal exercise rather than a external one. The excercises are a little different to what you see in external styles and is focused on strengthening the tendons in the arm. Some Ba Gua masters do similar strengthining excercises by carrying bricks around while circle walking. The other benefit with ring practice is to force the body to move in a floating motion which allows you to develop a heavy arm by sticking to the rings as you move.

Although there are kicks in Zi Ran Men, it doesn't really have an emphasis on it. Most of the emphasis on footwork (stepping) which generally involves dodging and stepping around the opponent. The confusion is usually derived from Du Xin Wu's nickname Magic Legs Wu which was actually referring to his speed in encircling the opponent as opposed rather to his kicking abilities.

As for the guy at White Crane Institute, I don't know much about him but judging from the name of his school he has trained in Fujian where majority of Zi Ran Men masters are located (this is also our teachers home town). I only say this on the basis that there are many White Crane masters that are also located in Fujian who also teach in the same location, hence the friendly relationship between the two styles. Then again, that could just be a coincidence, and the name of his school might have nothing to do with that.

I hope that answers a few questions you have. Feel free to ask more though.

[inthespirit]

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.

[onebir]

Does anyone know anything about this association:
http://fr.wanlaisheng.com/
It has a training centre in guangdong province china:
http://fr.wanlaisheng.com/articles.php?lng=en&pg=14
but oddly, in spite of wan laisheng's ziranmen fame, doesn't say that they teach it there ...

[Ziranmen]

I've seen that webpage before. Some people from our school asked our friends in China about him but couldn't find anybody who knows who he is. That's not to say he isn't good or hasn't trained with Wan Lai Shen. Wan Lai Shen trained and taught a lot of people, especially in his later years. It says on his website that Liang Chao Qun trained with Wan Lai Shen for 7 years and met him when Wan Lai Shen was 79 years of age, and it's quite possible he trained with him at that time without anybody from our school knowing about it.

That said, statements like these are just plain offensive.

"As Wan Laisheng's sole heir for the styles : Shaolin Liu-he Men, Shaolin Luo-Han Men, Ziran Men (Natural Style), Liang Chao Qun has been for the last five years extending in France the teaching of these styles."

Ignoring the lineage claim for Zi Ran Men, Liu-He Men and Luo-Han Men are both very common Shaolin styles. To claim to be the sole lineage holder for both of these would be insulting to a lot of people.

I also had a look at the videos at the White Crane Institute as well. All I will say is that his style of Bagua and Xing Yi are a lot different to what we learn at our school. Somebody here said he was a good fighter though, so if it works for him then I guess thats just his particular version of those styles. I couldn't find any clips of Zi Ran Men drills for easy comparison.

[Tseek Choi]

Hi people!

Found this thread and the comments about Liang Chao Qun, so thought you might be interested.

There is a student of Liang Chao Qun teaching a seminar/workshop in Birmingham in about 2-3 weeks time. (26/27 November)

I've put details in the calender regarding times location and contact details.

This will be Sifu's first workshop in the UK, so will be a good chance to practice some traditional Xing Yi Quan training from the Wan Lai Sheng to Liang Chao Qun lineage.

The teacher is Tu Minh Tan and he has trained in Xing Yi for much of his life, with Liang Chao Qun as his master for the past 8 years.

I recently met Tu Minh Tan when he first came to the UK, and after 22 years in the arts, 17 in Chinese arts, I can say that i've never seen power generation like this guy!

The workshop is cheap as he is looking to start a training group, so a great chance to see and learn.

For your info, I've trained with 4 different Xing Yi teachers in the past years, and i've decided to start again from the beginning with this Sifu, as his technique & power is amazing!
The first person i've seen that actually uses Yi rather than just the form.

cheers
Coln...................

[Syd]

Here's another ... Wun Yuen Yut Hei Jeung, precursor to Liu He Ba Fa.

[wanderingdaoist]

Are you sure it's a precussor? That's a gaungdong (canton) style, and liu he ba fa is a northern chinese style, as you can tell from the names.

If it is, that's cool, i'd like to find some more information about it.

Liu he ba fa, while interesting to watch, still seems to be almost an amalgamation to me. Having not personally practiced the style intensively, i can't state for certain. With that being said, do amalgamation IMA count as 'rare styles'? If that's the case, then I've a few to add to the list:

Xiang Quan (Elephant Fist)
Mi Lu Quan (Lost track boxing of the jing wu fame)
Nei Zui Quan (Internal drunken fist) otherwise known as zui taiji (Drunken Taiji) or 8-drunken immortals (can't remember the chinese name, never learned the word for 'immortal, heh)

Oh, and other esoteric internal styles such as fetus boxing... I've only heard this discussed, never seen it.

[Syd]

Are you sure it's a precussor? That's a gaungdong (canton) style, and liu he ba fa is a northern chinese style, as you can tell from the names.

If it is, that's cool, i'd like to find some more information about it.



Yes it is a Cantonese name because the gentleman who is now the keeper of the style was taught the forms in Hong Kong in the 60's which until that point had remained within the Taoist priesthood for countless centuries ... Sifu Cornelius Coelho ( in Sydney who I have trained with ) was taught the forms and told that it predates LHBF by hundreds of years and is a precursor or template from which LHBF was lifted ... much like the original 13 postures of Taijiquan and suggested Wudang infuences on Yang Taijiquan. Wun Yuen Yut Hei Jeung is simply the name but in no way limits the origins of the form to the south ... it's beyond that really.

In terms of age and whatnot, I believe that LHBF is actually older than Taijiquan as we know it ... Yang's and Chen ( if we can call Chen Taiji ) even; which makes WYYHJ VERY old! ;)

I trained in Wun Yuen for a short while but it was not for me.

[cloudz]

Came across this interesting book, when attempting to find more about pre-heaven boxing. One for the taichi folk.

http://www.plumpub.com/sales/lionbks/lb_taichi1.htm

LionBooks #LBTC-C031 US Tai Chi Chuan Ancestor's Methods Clarified
Compiled by Wang Jin Wu: over 220 pages, illustrated, softbound

This is a reprint of writings by Wang Jin Wu, author of "Tai Chi Explanations." The illustrations are very basic. The writings explore Tai Chi and its antecendents such as Li Dao Zi's Pre Heaven Boxing, Cheng Yun Di's 9 Smal Heavens Boxing, Chang San Feng's 13 Postures, etc. He also deals with the Tai Chi Songs and other classical writings, the Tan Tian, Opening and Closing, there is then a breakdown of all major moves in the Yang set, then sections on Tai Chi foot and body work. A very early explication of Tai Chi's principles.