Tausug martial arts.

[krys]

Just curious what are the different martial arts practiced by the Tausug peoples?

Tauhid_87 would you mind telling how Tausug kuntao is practiced?
Are there juruh's, langkahs like in silat or is there a different training structure?
Thanks.

[tauhid_87]

Very sorry I wasnt able to respond.

Tausug Kuntao, As I said it before I will answer only what I know maybe there are others who know tausug kuntao and its history. I believe there are many kinds of kuntao here in the sothern philippines. Martial Arts is called here kuntao, they thounght me "Pusot sin Kuntao" or core of Kuntao, this is the first martial arts I practice before I Galak Sipring. Tausug kuntao, its like tai chi in lower stance (very fast) with a lady like styles. They attack mostly below the waist (groin, legs, knees etc). Many sweeping techniques .

I aslo believe Tausug kuntao or or any martial arts here have same method of teaching, there are 12 main or major techniques and 10 minor ones and so on so forth., In one major techniques, there are 10 minor one like fro example breaking sweeping, striking, blocking etc. (I hope you understand what I am saying). Its difficult to put it in writing but I can show you how when you are here. Don't forget all of this techniques can be use in weapon.

The other aspect is inner power or what we call here "patulunan" for example like jurus, its like spiritual martial art but not, if you remember the movie "Ninja in the Gragon Den" starring Henry Sanada, there is part a part the movie spiritual kungfu but here it a little different. Its a bit scary and very powerful, Master Yasser lnow this thing exist here. yous can be great in a matter of minutes but of course most of us dont believe it. I believe it because I saw it with my own eyes. Thats one aspect but most of the kuntao practicioner go for hard training and practicing.

[krys]

Hello Tauhid,

I heard there is soft and hard kuntao in the southern Philippines, soft would be like silat and hard like hard chinese martial arts (with some silat added).
Does your system use low stances, I didn't really understand? We use high and low but also go to the ground. We seem to share the same emphasis on low attacks.
I understand what you are saying we also have sets of 12 techniques, and each technique has variations (although I do not know how many). There are soft and hard techniques.
Yes all of them can be used with weapons. We also have inner and spiritual training.
It feels very bad when you get hit by somebody who mastered inner training....
Some of the stuff is quite scarry, and you need to be very tough to practice it.

Just curious how are weapons trained by Tausug peoples? Is all weapon training found in kuntao and silat or are there other arts that provide weapon training like escrima?
I heard Tausug warriors were very famous with the spear, were you able to witness this or spear training?

Regards.
Krys.

[tauhid_87]

It hard and soft, the system use low and high stances (similar to wing chun). There is weapon training in kuntao but I dont like to practice them during my younger years, I like the empty hand always. Spear training, no I didnt seen the spear training. Seen authentic spear in Sulu in my uncles home but never seen any fight or training.

Tausug practicioner prefer to the study the inner power than practicing the techniques, during the inner power, weapon would be useless that what others say.The weapon they use this day is barong, I have one at my home (dont like guns its noises, I prefer barong). My master gave it to me as present. Kris weapon is use only for formal occassion not during conflict, I dont know why maybe barong is much better.

By the way, when we practice inner power it is rarely there is an opponent. Nobody makes a mock attack to the person performing only well experience and brave enough fighter.

Have your master teach it to you ,inner power ,or what we call here tauhid (Patulunan)? If yes ? is it faster or longer before you have it? Why I am asking this question because here in the south most martial arts (Tausug Silat or Kuntao) ahve it. I believe this is where its advantages to other martial arts. Even your master knows this stuff. The only different is , how powerful is his inner power..... tauhid_87.....



Noet: Tauhid means union or unity in arabic I think.

[krys]

I like empty hands, but my favorite training is with barong, pira and kriss sword. I have an
old kriss sword and there is something special with it...

They say the art of making real krisses has been lost in the Philippines, there are still old good ones but the new krisses are not so good. The knowledge of making good barongs and piras is still there and I know of some good pandays in Basilan. I also prefer blades to firearms, less noisy and sometimes it is not practical to use guns, but it is always good to know how shoot.

Yes my master taught me some inner power, but there are many different inner powers.
Some is very fast and powerfull but you cannot keep on practicing it in times of peace because you will serioulsy injure peoples around you unintentionally....Those who challenged guro learned the lesson bitterly. Other filipino Gms even from arnis and kung fu wanted to learn from him, chinese even proposed him a lot of money, but he never taught them.

I don't like to practice inner power when I am alone because I didn't master it completely yet. One time I made a mistake and thought my heart would stop.

[Crucible]

Hi Tauhid,
Good to see you on MAP, sorry again I lost your email.

Krys, do you prefer straight kriss or wavy? Did hadji show you kriss, or do you use Ilustrisimo swordwork with it? Have you started learning pira?

Tauhid, were you taught any rituals or prayers with the barung? Ways of holding, measuring, breathing? PM me if you wish to discuss it privately. Besides barung did you witness any other weapon training? How long must you train before your graduation ceremony?

[krys]

Crucible I prefer the wavy kriss.
Guro showed me just a little swordwork but as you can imagine it is unique, very different from the mainstream bladework. It works with most heavy blades used for chopping. I would use Illustrissimo swordwork rather for lighter blades.

[tauhid_87]

Hi Crucible long time, yes my master taught me , he gave me the barong of his because he said the barong is meant for me (like calling me). I have not witness lately weapon training, maybe this april if I am going to Sulu Province, my brother told me there is a guru there teaching barong and empty hand, that would be great. In our martial arts the only time you graduate is when you have won the fight with the master that the time you know you have finish learning from him.

Krys, It very interesting what you said yesterday. I am very interested what your master taught you in inner power, has does it work, process, breathing and what do you feel when you are in the state of inner power? I have started learning martial arts in 1987, this is the first time I talk to non Filipino and truly martial artist.

I have a question about Kali Illustrisimo, do you know the history of it? Is is true when Tatang Illustrisimo fight, show his techniques, as if he is in trance? I heard GM Tatang learn it here in Patikul, Sulu? Is this true? Jsut curious?

[Crucible]

Crucible I prefer the wavy kriss.
Guro showed me just a little swordwork but as you can imagine it is unique, very different from the mainstream bladework. It works with most heavy blades used for chopping. I would use Illustrissimo swordwork rather for lighter blades.
I think I know the swordwork your refering to. I always thought of it for barung and pira, never considered kriss. I think I'd have to have hadji walk through it with me a couple times before I felt I comfortable using it.

[Crucible]

I have a question about Kali Illustrisimo, do you know the history of it? Is is true when Tatang Illustrisimo fight, show his techniques, as if he is in trance? I heard GM Tatang learn it here in Patikul, Sulu? Is this true? Jsut curious?
Kalis Ilustrisimo is the blade art of the Ilustrisimo family. Its true that Tatang was at one piont raised in Sulu, but I'm unclear what influence sword methods from Sulu played on his art. I do know that he was proficent in using blades from Sulu as well as swords from all other parts of the P.I. Depending on what you use as a resource Tatang was either born in 1900 or 1904 and as a teenager was adopted by a hadji in Sulu named Hadji Mohammed or by the sultan at the time, named Mohammed. But in the visayas the Ilustrimo family has been known as skilled eskrimadors for maybe 5 generations. The art may go back further, but thats how far back is documented

[Crucible]

Tauhid_87,
Am I correct in understanding that you saw weapon training when you were younger but didn't participate in it? How does the weapon work in your kuntao differ from galak sepring?
Is the inner power training in your kuntao distinct from the inner power training in sepring?

[tauhid_87]

Hi, crucible.... Yes, when I was younger I don't like weapon I prefer empty hand. Honestly weapon is just an extension of the hand, it doesnt matter if I have weapon or not. There is no distinction in kuntao or galak sipring in inner power, I hope you will get me right, In inner power you don't have to train, your master will just give or share you the inner power. I know it sound hocus pocus but believe me it not, you may not know me, I am sharing things no one will share that why they call it secret. In 18 years of expercience this is the unltimate martial arts. I wish and pray I can let you see it. It the ultimate experience, I dont how to explain in to you. I dont mind people will say this is just another loony tune story but this is true.

Thanks for the Illustrisimo Story, at least I know tatang learn something from us.

[krys]

Crucible, the swordwork works with the kriss too but you have to be more carefull because this weapon is double edged. I even used the footwork with a long knive against a stick holding opponent. It is very surprising..... hard to master at the begining because it can be very tiring to repeat but once you get it, it will do wonders in a fight.

Concerning the inner power training, I learned it around two years ago. It is one form of inner power, hadji knows many others and I just saw the beginingof it. It is based on breathing, dynamic tension and meditation/prayer. But you have to prepare your body-mind before practicing it, hadji warned me.


Concerning Tatang's art, one Illustrissimo expert once showed an advanced empty hand technique (sorry he asked me not to give details) to Hadji, Hadji told him this technique was common to many muslim filipino martial arts. He thinks many patterns of the Illustrssimo style come from those arts.

[Crucible]

There is no distinction in kuntao or galak sipring in inner power, I hope you will get me right, In inner power you don't have to train, your master will just give or share you the inner power. I know it sound hocus pocus but believe me it not, you may not know me, I am sharing things no one will share that why they call it secret. In 18 years of expercience this is the unltimate martial arts. I wish and pray I can let you see it. It the ultimate experience, I dont how to explain in to you. I dont mind people will say this is just another loony tune story but this is true. Its not the first time I heard of such a thing in silat circles, but its the first time I've heard of it in an FMA silat context. As you say I will have to see and feel it from you, perhaps sometime in the future. Thanks for the Illustrisimo Story, at least I know tatang learn something from us.
Your welcome.

[Crucible]

Krys,
You ever ask hadji about kampilan? I know its not really a yakan weapon, but I'm curious what he'd say.

[krys]

Crucible,

I never asked hadji about Kampilans, I think it is more of a Tausug-Maguindanao weapon right? The pira, followed by barongs are blades favored by Yakan peoples but some of them also have kriss swords of different sizes, the one I own is very long.

[Crucible]

Maranao-Irunan-Maguindanao.

[tauhid_87]

Thanks krys for the info in llustrisimo kali. hope to see you soon.

Crucible, if you can come in PI, dont forget the south.

regard,

Tauhid_87

[tauhid_87]

This is what they told me,, in Sulu the inner power is very powerful than there borneo counterpart. Some master or teacher in martial art ors religious teacher,when they want there knowlegde increase or become more powerful , they have to go Sulu. Its just the same in martial arts.

Krys, In what I know, you dont have to prepare your body,you just have to be open minded, physically fit and brave enough. Remember you dont have to be a muslim, you just have to believe in GOD and He exist.

[krys]

Tauhid I will be in the Philippines soon and it would be great to practice with you down south. Crucible will go to the Philippines this summer? What about your plans for France? Hadji will be there from March 24, maybe for one whole month....

[Crucible]

Still working on funds for France, it'd be good to see hadji, its been too long. If your wedding still scheduled for July, then I'll be in the P.I. in July. I'll try to get in a month or two so I can train with hadji, GM Diego & mang Romy, and visit my father in Marawi. Depending on the timeing I'd also like to visit Sulu, TawiTawi and Basilan.
It would be funny to be in France with Hadji, I guess I better work on my french. Hehe. How long should I plan on staying? Part of that months in Britian, right? Or is the whole thing in Paris? Whats the itinerary for the month?

Tauhid_87,
If I make it down to Sulu this summer I'll definetely stop by Zamboanga city to see you and hopefully your guru.

[johnchow]

Dear Krys, Crucible and Tauhid,

I am also a practitioner of Kalis Ilustrisimo, living in Melbourne, Australia. I just happen to stumble upon this forum, so forgive me for my awkwardness while I find my way around.

Tatang Ilustrisimo came from a mystical family. His Father, uncles and grand uncles were all experts in anting-anting. However, I did not have the oppotunity to learn the esoteric arts from him. My main training were by Tony Diego and Romy Macapagal, and it is physical only.

I am fully satisfied with the physical training I have received. No problem with that. I need to learn the esoteric training in order to re-establish a more complete art. Being naturally inclined to spiritual matters from boyhood, I am more and more gravitating in that direction in my old age.

I have been turning my attention to Internal Energy training - more the semi mystical blend than the purely human type (eg., Tai Chi, Yi Chuan, Nei Gong). More attractted to Southe East Asian type (maybe because I was brought up there), which in Malaysia/Indonesia we classify as the ilmus of Tenaga Dalam.

I have been searching for Indonesian region (Bali/Java) for teachings on these, which include kebal ('invulnerability') and jarak jauh (distance hitting).

Would the 3 of you be kind enough to direct me to, and introduce me to, propr teachers please? The only 'restrictions' are that I am not a Muslim, and I eat pork. I am also getting old, so please don't ask me t do very vigorous physical exercises! By, I do believe in, and pray to Almighty God everyday!

Thanks a lot,

John Chow
Kalis Ilustrisimo

[tauhid_87]

Hi, Krys congratulation for the coming wedding!!!!

Crucible, hope to see you soon, by the way me going to Sulu in March. My brothers from manila will visit our guru so its like reunion. Crucible, in manila I have also from brother whos knows galak sipring or tausug martial arts, they are 5 of them there.

Hi, Johnchow, it nice to you come in this forum and understand what we are talking.

[tauhid_87]

Hi, what the best age to teach children?

[krys]

Thanks Tauhid.

I hope the situation in Sulu will be better when you go there with your brothers.

Concerning teaching children this is also a good question I asked myself.
One brother said his father didn't teach him before he was sure he wouldn't show other children what he was taught (I think something like from 8 years old).

What I am thinking is that when I have children I may have them doing exercises that will
make them move properly and keep them flexible probably from age 3. This will be all games, some with balls they have to avoid and others kind of dances but not martial arts, it is just to help them later in their practice. I may also have them learning capoiera when they will be a little older... When I feel they are mature enough I will teach them my martial arts.

Crucible, I don't know how long Hadji plans to stay in France, he thinks of more than 1 months but that would be difficult for me as I need to work in the UK till end of April. I hope he will be able to get his UK visa to give a seminar there... I'll keep you informed on the evolution of the situation.

[johnchow]

Dear Krys, Crucible and Tauhid,

My email address is vajra_master@yahoo.com
Please feel welcome to write in private if you wish. My URL is:-
http://www.yellowbamboohk.com
It is rather amateurish website, much in need of update. I will be updating it in the next few weeks with some pictures and articles.

Warmest regards,
John Chow

[tauhid_87]

Thank very much for the info krys, at the moment I am teaching 5 kids from 10 to 12 years of age. One of them is my nephew who is a fanatic in martial arts. It is also a learning for me because my wife is pregnant (6 months), so it is like a preparation for my kid. I am also afraid that galak sipring will be lost when we get older so this kids will be the next generation. To me martial art teaching is free us as long as they are dedicated, no fees.

Dont worry about us going to Sulu, the war is in the mountains in my father home municipality. Sulu is home inspite of the war and I pray one of this day people will realize war or fighting is never the solution but that is another story. I am very frustrated all they want is fighting, local politcian want all money and illegal drugs is rampant, that is why tausug martial arts will be gone in Sulu. Just the neigboring province will progress in martial art like basilan, tawi-tawi and Zamboanga Peninsula.

[krys]

Thank very much for the info krys, at the moment I am teaching 5 kids from 10 to 12 years of age. One of them is my nephew who is a fanatic in martial arts. It is also a learning for me because my wife is pregnant (6 months), so it is like a preparation for my kid. I am also afraid that galak sipring will be lost when we get older so this kids will be the next generation. To me martial art teaching is free us as long as they are dedicated, no fees.

Congratulation for you and your wife!
It is good that you found kids are interested in martial arts, nowadays children too often get spoiled and spend their time doing useles things....


Dont worry about us going to Sulu, the war is in the mountains in my father home municipality. Sulu is home inspite of the war and I pray one of this day people will realize war or fighting is never the solution but that is another story. I am very frustrated all they want is fighting, local politcian want all money and illegal drugs is rampant, that is why tausug martial arts will be gone in Sulu. Just the neigboring province will progress in martial art like basilan, tawi-tawi and Zamboanga Peninsula.

That is the problem with the southern provinces. It is the part of the country with the most potential but it gets ruined because of greed. There are many very bad things happening underground there right now, the root is not only in local politicians but also in Manila.
The southern martial arts are also disapearing in Basilan, one reason being the all gun culture....another is that the youth usually prefer foreign martial arts....

[tauhid_87]

You are right krys, I am not against any martial arts styles to me every martial art style is great. What I observe in the Philippines or here in the south , Filipino prefer foriegn martial arts ,They dont know even what silat is , I have to explain to them what it is. In Zamboanga City there is one school who is teaching silat, Penjak Silat not even FMA. It is very frustrating. That is why Foreigner is much better because they are dedicated and truest martial artist not the local ones. All they do is criticizes other because they are muslims or christians. It so pathetic. that is why I decided to teach the younger because I still see some of them is interest and they are not prejudice to other martial art whether local or foreign.

[tauhid_87]

You are right krys, I am not against any martial arts styles to me every martial art style is great. What I observe in the Philippines or here in the south , Filipino prefer foriegn martial arts ,They dont know even what silat is , I have to explain to them what it is. In Zamboanga City there is one school who is teaching silat, Penjak Silat not even FMA. It is very frustrating. That is why Foreigner is much better because they are dedicated and truest martial artist not the local ones. All they do is criticizes other because they are muslims or christians. It so pathetic. that is why I decided to teach the younger ones because I still see some of them is interested and they are not prejudice to other martial arts whether local or foreign. :bang:

[krys]

I know it is very frustrating, unfortunately few filipinos know much about their own martial arts. In Manila there are also a few gyms teaching silat but it is also penjak silat, when you see their advertising they say silat the martial art of Indonesia.....not fma.
Sometimes when peoples see me practicing silat in Manila they ask me how long I have been doing Karate....

Even when it comes to Arnis most filipinos will think about sticks only and don't know it is also about blades, other weapons and empty hands.
Yes it is good to teach the youth, they don't have prejudices and it teaches them discipline and proper values...Nowadays too many of them loose their time practicing martial arts with video games instead of doing it for real :bang: .

[tauhid_87]

Sorry, only I respond ,I got sick flu or just needed to rest but am ok now I think.

That is what I really get mad and frustrated, Filipinos are smart people but when it comes to martial arta they really can't distinguish what is karate, Kung fu, Taekwondo etc. All they can tell you karate and karate, it like you want a softdrinks they said coke, toothpaste for colgate. It s_ _ t! :bang

Krys or anybody there, Is it like this your situation in my home town Zamboanga City that martial arts is not active, what I meant is Martial arts is not popular. We only have school here Combat Aikido, Judo, Taekwondo, Karate, Jujitsu and penjak silat. :confused: Dont get me wrong I am a fanatic in martial arts, in fact I believe I am the only one who buy martial art magazine in this city like black belt, inside Kungfu or any magazines that is martial arts. Just want to learn what is happening out there. Am very happy that I found this site. Thank krys..... :)

[krys]

That is what I really get mad and frustrated, Filipinos are smart people but when it comes to martial arta they really can't distinguish what is karate, Kung fu, Taekwondo etc.

Some pinoys are too smart :) . Real filipino Kuntao is nearly unknown outside MIndanao.
The problem is some peoples named their own styles (arnis, or mix of arnis+ju jitsu+muay tha,i or penjak silat + karate) Kuntao and this is quite confusing because many made up stories to attract students.

This is a mix with japanese and korean arts:
http://www.nmc.edu/~bsmith/

I'll answer to your question in another post, I have to apologize because I am pretty busy right now.

[krys]

Krys or anybody there, Is it like this your situation in my home town Zamboanga City that martial arts is not active, what I meant is Martial arts is not popular. We only have school here Combat Aikido, Judo, Taekwondo, Karate, Jujitsu and penjak silat. Dont get me wrong I am a fanatic in martial arts, in fact I believe I am the only one who buy martial art magazine in this city like black belt, inside Kungfu or any magazines that is martial arts. Just want to learn what is happening out there. Am very happy that I found this site. Thank krys.....

There are lots of martial arts in the west the problem is quality of instruction for arts like silat and arnis. I haven't met a real silat or arnis master outside South East Asia.

Silat is my favorite martial arts but I don't find what I am looking for where I live. The closest art to silat (hadji Yasser's style) I found is russian martial arts, this may sounds very strange but surprisingly there are similarities. It is very combative, soft and relaxed movements but devastating.

Arnis is slowly getting popular but the problem is it is too often competition arnis or forms of arnis that emphasize drills that cannot be really used in combat.

I've seen the way weapons are trained in the southern Philippines and that's what I am looking for now.... It is very different from mainstream arnis. The lumad peoples and mountain tribes also have very good and different arts but those are not shown.

My guro's system and the Illustrissimo style are the best I have found, but I am sure there are other very good systems down south. I hope you will be able to meet the barong expert you were talking about in one of your post, Sulu type barong practice must be awesome..

Tauhid I will bring you european martial arts magazine so that you can see what is done here ,if you are interested, next August. Just remind me in May :) .

[tauhid_87]

Hi! Krys, Dont worry if you will be leaving in manila, Ill tell my brothers to have training with you. They are really good and a martial artist, at least you will have an alternate practice. When you come south will try to go Jolo, Sulu where my guru is and you will meet some of his student ( that is good is weapon). Will have to schedule it because of my work and my family.

I would like that, I will remind you dont worry.

Krys or anyone, can you tell me how you open a dojo or club? You needed licenses or exam to open a school in Martial Arts? Why I ask this is because I heard here in Zamboanga City, when you open a school the you have to visit the police, they are theone you give license you can open a school. Strange? just a thought.............................also when my guru was young, he yold he wants to open a school on silat but they said it is illegal, only karate, judo etc. will be permitted. Maybe because od its deadly art but ain't karate a deadly art? or any martial arts? :confused:

[krys]

Hello Tauhid.

It depends on the country. In France you will need a license but I heard this isn't necessary in the USA (may be wrong).

Concerning the Philippines and Arnis there was a project for instructors to go follow a one week course before they would be allowed to teach....imagine the grandmasters having to ask for authorisation to teach :eek:, fortunately this didn't happen. In Manila those I know don't have licenses but it would be better to ask in the city hall first.

One of Hadji Yasser's students (this one learned sport silat lang) went to lake Lanao and opened a silat school there, he was challenged by two maranao TKD instructors (3-4 dan respectively) and knocked them down.This was the only public silat school in the area. I heard some maranao peoples also know silat but don't teach it publicly. I don't know if the school still exists there but after Lanao he went to Palawan and opened a successfull school with something like 50 students.

[ICT]

Hello Tauhid.

It depends on the country. In France you will need a license but I heard this isn't necessary in the USA (may be wrong).

In the United States if you open a school you have to have a business license & tax ID# and the area has to be zoned for that business you are opening. Now other than some residential neighborhoods I have never heard of a martial arts school not being allowed to open where they wanted to.

Some cities, counties and states require a martial arts school to have liability insurance to cover their students before they can receive their business license.

Now if you teach for free let's say in a park or in your back yard then no license is required but if you charge a fee then a license is needed along with a tax ID # so the city, county and/or state can get their taxes!

Sincerely,
Teacher: Eddie Ivester

[tauhid_87]

Thanks Krys and ICT, You help a lot , maybe it just the same here in the Philippines because Philippine Law (basic) is pattern in the US Law. I also agree that as long as I dont charges for fees then I dont get a license. :)

I like your story krys, can you believe that! He have a lot of confidence with his martial arts.Great!!! :)

Krys, have you seen, fight, spar, practice with savate (French Boxing) practicioner? I just read the November issue of Blackbelt Magazines. Just Curious.....

Also Is it just like here people challenge you if your martial arts is good? Just heard from my brothers in Sulu Province that my Guru have been challenge in a fight, my Guru accepted it but the challenger just froze, amazing wish I was there.

[tellner]

In the United States if you open a school you have to have a business license & tax ID# and the area has to be zoned for that business you are opening. Now other than some residential neighborhoods I have never heard of a martial arts school not being allowed to open where they wanted to.

Some cities, counties and states require a martial arts school to have liability insurance to cover their students before they can receive their business license.

Now if you teach for free let's say in a park or in your back yard then no license is required but if you charge a fee then a license is needed along with a tax ID # so the city, county and/or state can get their taxes!

We have insurance and a waiver but don't charge for what we teach. It makes life a lot easier and avoids the zoning issues (and any licensing nonsense that the state might enact some day).

[krys]

Hello Tauhid,

Yes Savate is from France, but it is slightly different from French boxing. Savate is the street version and French boxing the competition art. I haven't learned those arts but have spared against a french boxer, but never against a savate practitioner. One of my russian martial arts instructors is a savate expert, it looks very interesting, they have various vicious strikes to the knee/lower body. There is another french martial art called "Lutte Parisienne" ie Parisian Wrestling, it is not only on wretling but has also kicks, punches.... this is also a good art but it is diying.

Also Is it just like here people challenge you if your martial arts is good? Just heard from my brothers in Sulu Province that my Guru have been challenge in a fight, my Guru accepted it but the challenger just froze, amazing wish I was there.

It really depends of the place you are teaching, can happen if you have a reputation to defend, peoples will come to your gym to test you.

Sometimes peoples are also talking trash about what you are doing and you may want to pay them a visit....but they often retract what they said before you visit them :D.

Are challenges common in martial arts schools in Zamboanga? Was your guru challenged by another Kuntao players or or a silat master?

My own guro was once challenged by a foreign Grandmaster in Manila who said Silat was only for malaysians-indonesians and shouldn't be taught to filipinos, he quickly changed his mind afterwards :) and they became friends .
There was also an expert from Zamboanga del Norte who came "to teach him" silat while he was giving a class in Taguig (he used to teach there before), guro hit him in 3 different places as he took him to the ground and the expert cried....according to other peoples nobody heard of him anymore in Zamboanga del Norte and he probably stoped teaching....

[tauhid_87]

Thanks for info in Savate and french boxing, I thought they are the same. This is very interesting. Savate is like a street fight and not a sport but french boxing is.

Not lately, I didnt heard anymore in Zamboanga city Challenges but I think in Basilan, Sulu and tawi-Tawi, this is still a practice. In my colleges days I saw many and most of the time I'm with my master but they always lose and sometimes they just talk and talk, that is what i hate most :woo: My brother in Sulu said, our guru was challenge by his student's student and it was a silat practicioner, he just didnt move (the Challenger) I dont know what happen. Its just amazing, eventhough my guru is sick, you are out of you mind to challenge him.

Did you know, my guru and I fought, I was lucky he didnt caught me (Twice in fact in my colleges days and after). I thought this is it, i will have a broken knee and arms but I escape his attack, he was very very happy because he didnt caught. He said I learned a lot and he smile at me and this is serious fight and I thought he was just joking but not.

[krys]

Is there a lot of catching in galak sipiring? There is a lot in our silat, it may be common to southern filipino systems. I never fought with my guru...
but we've done kind sparing like exercises together, I was supposed to keep on attacking what happened is that the locked me wherever I moved, my movements became all useless because he felt what I was doing and moved in such a way that all I couldn't move anymore.
I was like paralysed, he didn't have to strike but just to position himself....

[tauhid_87]

Galak Sipring has catching too, most of the time striking ( to the ribs cage ,arms and knees) its up to you what to follow next. I can see what you said about the lock, it like they have anticipate every move you make but unfortunately I like striking first then use locks. In galak sipring you will not give you opponent a chance to counter attack you, you should knock him in first move, then that it. My master thought me in galak sipring always forward, if am correct just like wing chun.

I thought my students drills, in order they will get the proper execution and it will be like instinct to them. It fun when you have master the drills, at the moment all I teach them is pure Galak sipring.

Krys, how many student has Guru Yasser have in your class? Is it similar to your other silat styles you know, like indonesian or Malaysian?

[krys]

Actually the catchs often come after our attacks and depends on the opponent reactions.....if the first attack hits fine follow and finish, if not the opponent will be drawn into a wirlwind he won't be able to escape until he is caught...after he is caught it is often hit-break-and throw...

Our class is not like the other indonesian-malaysian silat classes I've seen before, it is very informal, there is seni in our system but we prefer to spend time studiying combat and some of the internal aspects.

I've seen different system of silat but this one is very unusual...the movements feel more natural and practical, very smart in a pinoy way...

We are only four brothers...once a week we all train together but when I am in the Philippines I also train 5-6 days a week alone with guro.

How about your galak sipiring class? I have no idea how a typical filipino kuntao class looks like...

[tauhid_87]

I have 5 students, they have no martial arts backround and they are physically not in shape. First, I teach them exercises that is related to galak sipring, then forms. Forms are very important and they will learn how to properly execute the techniques and there will get use to the galak sipring styles. After forms, the drills, then I teach them techniques. I can be really strictly and something we laugh together remember this kids is 10 to 12 years of age. I meet them ones a week, always saturday 2 to 5 pm, thats the only time I have. Its just like any practice in martial arts.

When I am alone, I train everyday , I rest only on friday and saturday is when I teach. When I am with my guru, the first thing we do is have a light exercise (strechings), then we start practicing techniques and apply it to practical uses. Always after training, our master will call one by one then we execute our forms thought our masters. Sometimes, we spar, really spar and its very dangerous, our guru always warn us to be careful.

Its always painful when he teach but Im use to it, now he is semi retired when he teach to others,we have to see first who is this people who wants to learn from our guru because most of the time people are opportunist and I hate it. If ever you see my guru ,Guru Haron Ladja, you wont believe he is a master.

[krys]

We go through a light warm up, stretching, practice striking and footwork, drills and then forms.This is followed by working on application of the forms.
Sometimes guro also asks us to spare to see how we perform...

Do your forms look like silat forms or are they very different? Are they long with animal like movements?

I understand what you are saying about opportunists, there are many peoples around who want to spy on us and this is a real problem, we often have to change place to train or stop training when we see some.

I also like to screen guro from peoples I feel being opportunists...you often can spot them when they come and only want to learn some parts of the system to complement their own... There are also those who claim they want to document your art or film it and then make videos or books about it they are going to sell...

This already happened with arnis, one filipino american once came to Manila in order to learn with Gm B.Lema. He was supposed to train for one month but came only a few times to his appointments...when he returned to his country he made the tape "secrets of lightning arnis "and claimed he was 10 th Dan.

[tauhid_87]

Galak Sipring forms is a little bit different from silat forms and a bit closer to animal forms. The knees is lower but not touching the ground and with an X or cross legs that why if you are first timer it is a little bit painful.

That is what I hate, people just come to be visit guru then they said they are the student of his, eventhough they practice with him only days. Some older students of his have the nerve to correct us eventhough they are not active anymore in martial arts and Guru Haron didnt teach them all the techniques during there time( I dont know why?).

When I was there in Manila , we practice at UP diliman, strange most of the time around 10pm because most of my brothers have work and they are busy. This days, they said they practice at Quezon Memorial Circle sometimes in the morning (Saturday) or night time.

Do you think and feel silat is a very effective martial arts or superior to other martial arts? ( I dont mean about the person performing the arts, it may vary because of the training).

[krys]

I practice sometimes in the memorial, but never tried during nightine....I'm gonna live 10" away from UP, not far away from Tandang Sora.

Silat is highly effective. Another very effective one is russian martial arts, but it is like silat in many aspects.....

There are many kinds of silat but real silat is a diying art, the best masters don't usually promote their art and prefer to keep it in a close circle...If the students don't teach or the master doesn't find worthy students the systems disapears...A lot of knowledge has already been lost in Basilan according to guro.

What is often seen is just commercial silat, dancing or karate-tkd like training, also practicing techniques that only works with dead peoples :rolleyes:.

What makes me angry is when I see those peoples going 6 weeks to Indonesia/Malaysia and return claiming they are masters and making up fake stories about silat....
Many will talk mumbo jumbo to impress their students and take their money away...
My brothers and I will take steps to prevent this happens to our art.

[tellner]

We go through a light warm up, stretching, practice striking and footwork, drills and then forms.This is followed by working on application of the forms.
Sometimes guro also asks us to spare to see how we perform...
We do little or no warm up. There is a fundamental idea that you won't have a lot of warning before things get bad. You certainly won't have time to run and stretch, so the movement we do can all be done "cold" and in street clothes.

I understand what you are saying about opportunists, there are many peoples around who want to spy on us and this is a real problem, we often have to change place to train or stop training when we see some.
There's no way to get the skills without putting in the time. The opportunists may learn a few techniques, but they won't have the skill or understanding to make it work or put it together. And if they don't have the training methods that go with the techniques they might not even get that.

[krys]

There's no way to get the skills without putting in the time. The opportunists may learn a few techniques, but they won't have the skill or understanding to make it work or put it together. And if they don't have the training methods that go with the techniques they might not even get that.

Warming up reduces chances of injury if you get hit/caught.... If it happens during a fight so be it, but there is little purpose to see this happen during training. We don't do much because the place we train is quite hot....
Preparing the mind and body is at least as important as learning techniques...there are exercises that can not be used directly in combat but will greatly improve your skills.

[tauhid_87]

You got it right krys, even here people are forgeting about silat, they think silat is just a joke and I feel like they think silat is just for muslim. That is not true silat or kuntao is for everybody.

My brothers house is just near UP thats why they practice there. They are planning to make a practice area in Katipunan (blueridges subd.) hoping this will happen.

Yours Guru is right there, people in those area are not interested anymore in martial arts, most of the guru is dying or to hardheaded to teach people that is worthy, if they can't find a muslim that is willing they wont teach to anyone like non muslim they wound rather die. Can you believe that, then all those secret martial arts will die. I wont do that , that is why I am teaching those kids that is willing learn and dedicated.

To answer Tellner, in fight warm up is needed, only if you are challenge but in streetfight that is different. You have to react in second and focus on your enemy. In training, warm up and exercises is important for conditioning, your body should be ready at any cost.

The opportunist will never get the real techniques.......never......

[RedBagani]

If Someone Was Looking For An Authentic Moro Martial Art, Where Can He Find A Good Teacher In Manila? If Someone Was Looking To Interview A Master In Order To Project The Arts And Preserve The Heritage, Who Can He Talk To?

[chib]

.[/QUOTE]
Yes it is good to teach the youth, they don't have prejudices and it teaches them discipline and proper values...Nowadays too many of them loose their time practicing martial arts with video games instead of doing it for real :bang:



Like you would know

[gurobuzz]

Some pinoys are too smart :) . Real filipino Kuntao is nearly unknown outside MIndanao.
The problem is some peoples named their own styles (arnis, or mix of arnis+ju jitsu+muay tha,i or penjak silat + karate) Kuntao and this is quite confusing because many made up stories to attract students.

This is a mix with japanese and korean arts:
http://www.nmc.edu/~bsmith/

I'll answer to your question in another post, I have to apologize because I am pretty busy right now.
This I s Brian Smith to the website you refered to. Maharlika Kuntaw as it is being taught today by GM Carlito Lanada and the main frame Kuntaw Ng Pilipinas IS Korean/Japanese style- What I am teaching is as close as I can come to what I originally learned in the Philippines in 1970. Unfortunately , GM Lanada aloso has fallen into the mindset that foreign is better- tthat is why the art had been changed in 1974-5. I am trying to be as politically correct with my teachings.

[tauhid_87]

If Someone Was Looking For An Authentic Moro Martial Art, Where Can He Find A Good Teacher In Manila? If Someone Was Looking To Interview A Master In Order To Project The Arts And Preserve The Heritage, Who Can He Talk To?

In manila, I dont know any teachers there but here in the southern philippines I know some and they are really good, about interview the master that is alittle difficult, most of the master are dead, sick and have thrown there martial arts because of poverty. Red, you can come to jolo, sulu just contact guru halman your friend, our guru is with him.................

[RedBagani]

In manila, I dont know any teachers there but here in the southern philippines I know some and they are really good, about interview the master that is alittle difficult, most of the master are dead, sick and have thrown there martial arts because of poverty. Red, you can come to jolo, sulu just contact guru halman your friend, our guru is with him.................

I have been trying to get in touch with Halman but the contact number has been changed. Maybe you can send me his number or address thru my private number. Thanks. When you come to Manila. let's meet.

[tauhid_87]

I have been trying to get in touch with Halman but the contact number has been changed. Maybe you can send me his number or address thru my private number. Thanks. When you come to Manila. let's meet.


ok, will meet but I dont know yet Im a little bit busy with my work probably this october. send me your cellphone number by private message, Ill text you.

I heard you are good in your martial arts and you are dedicated martial artist....Have you fought with southern phil. style of silat? Just want to know??

[RedBagani]

I heard you are good in your martial arts and you are dedicated martial artist....Have you fought with southern phil. style of silat? Just want to know??
Hello tauhid,
Am I good? You bet I am. I am very good at avoiding the really strong fighters. Hahaha. Have I fought a Southern stylist? Thank goodness, I haven't. I wouldn't want to fight any of the guys from the South, thank you. I have sparred with a few and also other pesilat. I once sparred a Silat Cekak stylist who claimed he won a silver medal in Kuala Lumpur. I wouldnit have known cause I am not a sports pesilat. I am not familiar with the personalities in sports silat. I bowled him over twice. He claimed I cheated. He was playing according to some rules I wasn't made aware of. Me? I thought what I was doing was legitimate traditional Silat moves. Maybe that proves that I am no good in sports silat.

[tauhid_87]

Hello Red!!

Sport Silat or pesilat is different in traditional silat, there are no rules in real fight. I can never imagine I will do sport silat, if that happen then I will be kick out in the sport silat competition......

By the way, Guru Halman text me last night, somebody challenge them in a fight tonigh April 5, Tasbi Aullah (the group) has made the challenge. Amazing I wish I was there in Sulu. I will post what happen...

Tauhid_87

[RedBagani]

I hope to meet you and the others this year. We have a lot of stories to tell. Unless more guys join us, we'll end up as old men and women telling legends while the younger generation play virtual fights on the computer.