Hapkido... what kwan are you?

[Thomas]

I noticed from some of the other posters that there are some Hapkido students around. What kwans did/do you study and what do you consider the emphasis is in your kwan?

I studied mainly in Moo Moo Kwan in Korea. It's under the umbrella of the International Hapkido Federation (IHF), which falls under the World Kido Federation. We did lots of breakfalls (every session) and worked a lot of open, moderate sparring (everything goes, but with lots of control... don't really injure). Core components of our TESTING curriculum included:
1. Forms - one or two per belt color level
2. Straight wrist grabs/Cross Wrist grabs/other grabs
3. Yoodo (Judo) techniques (Throwing and sweeping)
4. Breakfalls (lots)
5. Kicks and punching combinations
6. Dan Jeon Breathing Patterns
7. Footwork drills (Cheon Hwap Beop)
8. Sparring (no rules... good control)
9. Other stuff...

[sputnik]

I study Jin Jung Kwan Hapkido under the Korea Hapkido Federation (KHF)

The KHF is the oldest Hapkido federation around and the dojang I go to is the KHF headquarters in Canada

[Thomas]

Sputnik: Where in Canada are you... are you near the Ottawa region?
The reason that I ask is because I am just across the Canadian border from Ottawa. If you were in that area, I would love to check out the Hapkido school and invite you to check out our classes.

In my area we are training in Cheon Doo Kwan Hapkido (International Combat Hapkido Federation... officially recognized by the World Kido Federation as a new Kwan). the training is very self defence oriented and very practical. They also add in elements from other styles. The seminars (see other post) are really productive as well. Whereas the training may not be as "traditional" as other Hapkido schools I've been at, it definately is effective and eye-opening. The seminar instructors are first-rate.. some of the best in the world.

[Jazman]

not sure what kwan even, don't pay much attention to that stuff, part of the World Hapkido Federation though

[Ancient Dragon]

Im trying to figure out what all this terminology is, can somebody help me out and explain to me what these following groups are?

1.Anceint Dragon Hapkido - this is the style of hapkido i am involved in.

2.Dragon Society - weve been learning some thing from the dragon society

3.Black Arts Society - When i was tested the guidlines for what i needed to be able to do came from these guys.

4.IHF - all i know is this is short for International Hapkido Federation

5.KHF - " " Korean Hapkido Federation

if you guys can help me out with what these thing have to do with what im learning that would be a HUGE help, thanks alot.

[Chris from CT]

Hi.
I belong to the Korea Jung Ki Hapkido and Kuhapdo Association (Jung Ki Kwan) and the style of Hapkido I study is Jung Ki Hapkido. My teacher (and head of the organization) is GM Lim, Hyun-Soo. GM Lim is one of only three people in the world to ever receive their 9th degree directly from the founder of Hapkido; Dojunim Choi, Yong-Sul. The other two include, GM Chang, Chin-Il and GM Kim, Yun-Sang. GM Lim is also one of the longest running students of Dojunim Choi. In 1976 when Dojunim Choi closed his dojang in Korea, he joined GM Lim and the Jung Ki Kwan until his death in 1986.

Here is the official Jung Ki Kwan Website...
http://jungkikwan.com

Our style of Jung Ki Hapkido has a big emphasis in "Munoturiki" or "breaking the opponent's balance." This is also called "Kazushi" in Japanese. Munoturiki was a major part of Dojunim Choi's Hapkido. When applying munoturiki, it is not necessary to fake out the opponent, but off-balancing them so they have very little choice on where they end up. Very few of these techniques use a strike to accomplish this. One of the things I really enjoy about this style of Hapkido is that a person can grab on full force and you can execute the technique without striking or saying, "well, I would do this if he grabbed hard." This is great because...

1. you can test your actual technique to see how efficient it is. Many of the "breaking" techniques that people teach are variations of original technique without the full use of munoturiki. Now these are still good techniques, just as long as there are other options. Which brings me to #2...

2. it gives the practitioner a greater choice on what level of force is used on an opponent. Sometimes we don't want to cause massive damage, but we want to just control the situation.

3. It can be used on people much larger and stronger than you are. We can’t rely on always being stronger than an opponent, so why use technique that requires you being stronger. By using munoturiki, the size of your opponent is less important and makes it a more even playing field. GM J.R. West of the United States Korean Martial Arts Federation once said, “Use your head, not your strength. If you have to force it, you’re doing something wrong.” This is one of the keys to effective Hapkido no matter what style a person trains in.

Originally posted by Ancient Dragon
Im trying to figure out what all this terminology is, can somebody help me out and explain to me what these following groups are?

1.Anceint Dragon Hapkido - this is the style of hapkido i am involved in.

This is most likely a style that your teacher came up with or created.

Originally posted by Ancient Dragon
4.IHF - all i know is this is short for International Hapkido Federation

There are a few IHF's. None are affiliated with each other. Here are some of their websites...

Bong Soo Han's IHF
http://www.bongsoohanhapkido.com/

James Benko's IHF
http://www.itatkd.com/ihf.html

Jae Nam Myong's IHF
http://www.usa-hapkido.com/

Originally posted by Ancient Dragon
5.KHF - "Korean Hapkido Federation"

The KHF is one of the largest and oldest of the Hapkido Organizations. It used to be the KHA (Korea Hapkido Association) and since the mid 1980's has been the KHF and headed now by Oh, Se-Lim, who is a student of GM Ji, Han-Jae (student of Choi, Yong-Sul and former president of the KHA).

This is the official website of the KHF...
http://hapkidokorea.org/index-start.htm

I hope this helped.

Take care. :)

[Thomas]

I've never heard of Ancient Dragon before. You mention that your master is 10th dan in Ancient Dragon Hapkido and 9th dan in Hapkido. Has he explained the differences between the two? It sounds pretty interesting. Does your master teach many classes himself despite his age? What would you say is the main kind of techniques that you learn (e.g. breakfalls, kicks, locks, etc.)?

My impression is that he must be the founder (or some kind of head) of the Ancient dragon kwan if he is ranked 10th dan. Do you know if he is affiliated with any other umbrella organization, like the World Kido Federation?

I mention the World Kido Federation because in one of the previous posts, Chris from CT mentions the number of International Hapkido Federations... I discovered that there were quite a few myself when I did a web search! The IHF I was a member of in Korea later became under the umbrella of the World kido Federation. The hapkido I study now, Combat Hapkido under GM Pelligrini also falls under the World Kido Federation. Why is that important? For matters of travelling (or living) around the world and training, it's nice to know if your rank will be recognized at other schools!

by the way, interesting post Chris from CT... sounds like a neat school to train at! Also, i liked the history part...

[Ancient Dragon]

yeah he got Ancient Dragon recognized as its own fighting style

[Thomas]

Chris from CT: I had fun checking out the sites you mentioned. My ranking comes from the Korean Hapkido Federation, under the umbrella of the International Hapkido Federation, of which information can be found at this site:

http://www.hapkiyoosool.com/

It is pretty amazing to see how many different kwans and federations there are for Hapkido. I am still curious how much they differ from each other...

Ancient dragon: You mentioned that your master has established his own style... what makes it distinct from his other style of Hapkido?

[Chris from CT]

Originally posted by Thomas
Chris from CT: I had fun checking out the sites you mentioned... by the way, interesting post... sounds like a neat school to train at! Also, i liked the history part...

I enjoy doing research on martial arts. The only thing I have a hard time with is when people try to shove their version down your throat without hard proof. Some of Hapkido's history is not well documented, so you have to check out all the information and make your own decisions about things. That's one of the reasons I like Marc Tedeschi's book so much. It's one of the most unbiased books on Hapkido on the market today.

Originally posted by Thomas
My ranking comes from the Korean Hapkido Federation, under the umbrella of the International Hapkido Federation, of which information can be found at this site:

http://www.hapkiyoosool.com/


I'm a little confused (no big suprise). ;) You had mentioned that you study Combat Hapkido which is under World Kido. Is your school under both? The reason I ask is because there are major differences between GM Jae Nam Myung's IHF Hapkido and John Pellegrini's Combat Hapkido. It would be interesting to see how that type of situation would play out.

Take care :)

[Thomas]

The hapkido style that I am ranked in is Moo Moo Kwan hapkido (under the Korea Hapkido Federation, under the IHF, which falls technically under the World Kido Federation). This is the style I trained in when I lived in Korea for 4 years. It's a fairly "traditional style" hapkido and has forms and lots of kicks and such.

Now, living back in the states, I am in a fairly small area which has no Hapkido schools (although there are a few Karate schools, and Aikido school or two, and some TKD schools around). My master, who I had began TKD under has slowly expanded into GM Pelligrini's system and has become a charter member (he has been a follower of the seminars for many years). I recently applied to join the federation and have been attending seminars. As yet, I hold no rank in the ICHF (International Combat Hapkido Federation) and won't until the ICHF looks at my dan certificates and decides if they will honor them or not.

Not too long ago, the World Kido Federation recognized GM Pelligrini as a 9 dan and as a founder of Cheon Doo Kwan Hapkido (ICHF). So now technically, ICHF is a separate kwan of hapkido... and recognized under the World Kido Federation. (Boy, all these organizations sure make it fun, huh?) I have no idea how things will play out. I believe that GM Pelligrini is content to do his own stuff but appreciates the recognition from the WKF. GM Pelligrini recently began promoting his Independent Taekwondo Association which will do testing and rank granting without having to be ITF or WTF (and will offer rank certificates/testing in ITF or WTF taekwondo).

As far as techniques go, I personally find the ICHF much different from the Hapkido I have learned. And, I really enjoy the Combat Hapkido stuff. There are so many techniques and they cover all sorts of things from ground grappling to knife defence (using a knife and against one), gun training, and everything else. It's definately a very practical self defence oriented style. The basic concepts that I learned in Korea apply to the ICHF, everything from foot work to pressure points and joint locks. The ICHF interpretation of Hapkido is just a bit different, but loads of fun.

Oh, as an added note... I whole heartedly agree about liking to learn the history about different arts and not liking having history shoved down my throat (the usual tip-offs of propaganda for me are words like "only style..." "the best style..." "only our master..." and so forth).

[John_IHF]

You know its kinda funny. In america you can make up your own style and name for your Kwan if your a 1st dan. But in Korea you have to be a 9th dan a Kuk-sanim before you can ever create your own style of a martial art. And if Choi Young-Sool's First school was In Pyongtaek, South Korea, students that have acheived their 9th dan can make their own style. When you become a 5dan Kwan-jang-nim you can open your own school but under the kwan you came from. So for those who became a 1st dan and went to America and opened a school only got a tip of the iceberg and the art is empty and watered down. Usually schools like that add on different martial arts to make it look whole. Like by adding TKD. In Korea there aren't any martial arts schools that teach 2 martial arts they only teach one.

[waya]

Originally posted by John_IHF
You know its kinda funny. In america you can make up your own style and name for your Kwan if your a 1st dan. But in Korea you have to be a 9th dan a Kuk-sanim before you can ever create your own style of a martial art. And if Choi Young-Sool's First school was In Pyongtaek, South Korea, students that have acheived their 9th dan can make their own style. When you become a 5dan Kwan-jang-nim you can open your own school but under the kwan you came from. So for those who became a 1st dan and went to America and opened a school only got a tip of the iceberg and the art is empty and watered down. Usually schools like that add on different martial arts to make it look whole. Like by adding TKD. In Korea there aren't any martial arts schools that teach 2 martial arts they only teach one.

True, many schools over here offer more than one art, or systems comprised of more than one art, taking the best portions of each. I fail to see the downside of that though. That is how each system we have today, and all those that came before came into being.

[John_IHF]

Yes but then again thats how Arts became into the thing about "An Acient art that died off years and years ago" because people decide they want to make other martial arts. Mixing 2 martial arts together you will get another martial art, not the 2 that are being mixed.

[waya]

There was a good article on the same subject in the current issue of TKD Times... The Editor made a statement I agree with, if you put any of the old founders of any systems in the a person who seriously trains MMA, the evolution of the techniques in the way they are used to apply to reality situations today, would force those older persons, who were doubtlessly phenomenal martial artsts, to evolve themselves, and the system would therefore evolve anyway.

Nothing survives without change, even the arts well all love and train. It's more a credit to the art to allow it to evolve and survive, then to be closed minded and have it die off because it didn't evolve with time.

I am all for traditional arts, but I don't believe that change is bad for them.

To be honest this should probably be in the Trends thread Andy started lol.

[Paratus]

I train in Wol Ge Kwon Hapkido, I'm not sure about the differences, but I do know its grand master is Gedo Chang.

[Silver Dragons]

Hello everyone...first post here and i thought this would be the best way to introduce myself. Im from Panama City, Panama and are blessed to have many knowledgeable martial artists here. I am most grateful to have the opportunity to train under one of the highest ranking Hapkido masters in the world Kwan Jan Nim Song-il Park who trained directly under Grandmaster Ji-Han Jae.......Kwang Jang Nim Park now runs a Song Moo Kwan Hapkido here in Panama even though Sin Moo is what Grandmaster Hae teaches.

Back in 1996 we had the honor to host Grandmaster Ji-Han Jae down here! Talk about luck for martial artists in Central America!

Heres a link to the dojo I train........ www.hapkidopanama.com

[Thomas]

Welcome and nice to "meet"you. Please check out the Hapkido check-in thread and tell us a bit more about yourself!

[sputnik]

Sputnik: Where in Canada are you... are you near the Ottawa region?
The reason that I ask is because I am just across the Canadian border from Ottawa. If you were in that area, I would love to check out the Hapkido school and invite you to check out our classes.


Sorry for the old reply (just drifted away from the forum).

I train in Calgary Alberta under the direction of 5th Dan Master Wade Langin at Flying Eagle Hapkido (www.flyingeaglehapkido.com).

Unlike many HKD masters. He started with Hapkido and is very consistant and loyal to the traditional HKD techniques. He is currently in charge of writing the Canadian curriculum for the KHF.

Unfortunately my training has been on hold temporarily as I get through a financial situation, but hope to be back soon.

[nj_howard]

hey folks, this is my first post here... looks like a very good board.

i train in the same hapkido kwan as chris_from_ct - jungki. a very traditional style that is probably as close to master choi's art (and therefore to daito ryu) as any.

i'm looking forward to good discussions with everybody. have to run now, but will be back soon... regards, howard

[Andy Murray]

Hello and welcome ;)

[Chris from CT]

hey folks, this is my first post here... looks like a very good board.

Hey Howard! You get around. ;)

Good to see you here.

[whip]

I train at HUANGS in Stratford. Very intense, serious school. Some of the older people have been there for 20 years. I am not sure what faction they are allied with. I do know that the master studied with Choi, and some of the other original students. They teach TKD as well, but it tends to be very rough and old-fashioned. All the instructors hold belts in both, so it is kind of tradition that higher ranks cross-train. It makes for very fun sparring sessions. We get quite a ribbing from other schools who label us as 'too traditional' and somewhat old-fashioned, but in this time of McDojang and TKD people who seem to forgrt they were born with arms, it is a damn good thing. :D

[Thomas]

Greetings whip!!!!! Sounds like a great place to train...

Looking forward to your insights here at the Hapkido forum... if you get the chance, check out the Hapkido check-in thread, too. (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5156)

[Chris from CT]

I train at HUANGS in Stratford.

Hey Whip, welcome aboard!

It's good to have another Hapkido brother in CT. We're a rare breed. :D

Take care.

[KickChick]

Looks like I might have to start taking some Hapkido ;)

Welcome fellow MAP nutmegger!

I've been to a few of Hwang's championships a few years back and actually grew up in Stratford!

[Chris from CT]

Looks like I might have to start taking some Hapkido ;)

Come to the dark side. ;)

Take care :D

[blessed_samurai]

I study Hapkido under the kwan of HoShinDo. We are an association (I'll see if I can get this right) under a couple of federations....International League of Martial Arts Masters and the American Federation of Jujitsu.

As I see it, the main emphasis in our testings are as follows:

break falling and rolling
sweeping
striking and kicking (knees and elbows included)
throwing
pressure points
grappling and ground fighting
defenses against grabs/holds/kicks/strikes/weapons
footwork
weapons (cane, knife, belt, walking stick, escrima sticks)

----I think that covers it----