Warning Ki failure

[lbo_ninja]

Hello every one,
I'm getting a very annoying problem: a ki failure.
Since a few weeks, I can't give anymore ki. I didn't receive a reiki formation but I still have the faculty to give it and that faculty raise up during my formations in thai massage and shiatsu. But actully nothing... :cry:
Is there something to do to correct or to help to correct that?

[adouglasmhor]

Go see an Amatsu Tatara practitioner, you need a full balance done.

[MartialArtsSnob]

Go see an Amatsu Tatara practitioner, you need a full balance done.

Don't worry............happens to the best of us from time to time......................try some Ginsing....... :o :D

HateitwhenthathappensMartialartsnobout!

[add]

Perhaps u simply need to power up for about 4 episodes, then u'll end up with a power level of over 5000! seriously though is there not some form of meditations you could do to control and generate ki?

[lbo_ninja]

I don't know that's why I haved posted

[Dr.Syn]

Seek out an acupuncturist..Mine is really good at putting things right again..Keep us posted

[aikiwolfie]

If you're having problems extending Ki it's normally because your giveing out more than your replenishing or because you're not sleeping properly. Illness within your own body can also seriousley affect your ability to extend Ki to others.

The simplest solution is to get a good nights sleep. There are also meditation and breathing exorcises that you can do to help replenish your Ki.


Ki Meditation (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10129&highlight=Meditation+Breathing)


Ki Breathing
The following is a very simple Ki Breathing exorcise.



Sit in the seiza (kneeling) position with a straight back and your hands resting naturally on your lap. If you find this position too uncomfortable sit on a chair with a hard straight back.


Close your eyes and open your mouth. You mouth should make an "O" shape.


Begin by breathing out from your tummy with one constant steady breath, maintaining a straight back until all the air is out. Then bow forward slightly from the hips to push out the last drop of air. Do not bow the head as this restricts air flow.


Close your mouth and breath into your tummy through your nose in one continuouse breath until it's full. Now sit up straight to draw in the last breath.


Repeat from step 2 for about 5 minutes and work upto half an hour. Always finish the exorcise on an out-breath.


Notes:

When breathing out you should make an "AH" sound and not "HA". Making a "HA" sound forces the air from the lungs too quickly.


A single breath for beginners should take no more than 5 seconds as each breath must be even. E.g. Breath out for 5 seconds then breath in for 5 seconds.


Do not try to sustain a single breath for too long. Thirty five (35) seconds is the normal upper limit. I don't want anybody to faint.


When sitting in the seiza position for long periodes, take your time standing up. The feet can go numb and you may fall over and break an ankle.

[lbo_ninja]

Thanks all for advices ;)

[Ikken Hisatsu]

you know, if you develop a large enoug beer gut your ki will be stored in it. wont be a problem again.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Ah, always wondered why so many of the ki teachers whose classes I've been to seemed massively overweight. That'd be it then.

[Maverick]

Perhaps u simply need to power up for about 4 episodes ...


Funniest post EVER!

:cool:

[ladystar]

Hugs, Ibo Ninja,

Ki's never gone or depleted...I just think so because sometimes I can't "feel" it. I have learned that Ki is more than a feeling...trust...go deeper....

I find I have difficulty extending Ki when there's too much stuff in my inner world, especially fear, frustration, or anger, sometimes, just being hungry!

Just indicates, that somewhere, my system is out of balance. Up to me to restore, and it's ok to allow others to assist, when appropriate...

I encourage you to look at your life and listen to your heart (or stomach).

Some antidotes I use?

Meditation
Forgiveness
Love
Trust
A good massage
Hiking in the woods (the forest always listens!)
A balanced diet with many good, whole grains
Safe ways to express anger
Treatments from others, like reiki, acupuncture, and others...
Dreaming
Candle lit bath using oatmeal, and rose soap
Friends who listen, understand, and do not give advice unless asked...
Laughing!
Singing!
Hugs...lots of them...giving and getting
Helping somebody else.

I hope this helps...please let me know....blessings.. luv, Jess :o

[hwardo]

Have you ever considered supplementing your practice with Chinese qigong?

[WingChun Lawyer]

seriously though is there not some form of meditations you could do to control and generate ki?

There ARE medications used to suppress the belief in ki. They are dispensed by the practitioners of the ancient art of psy-ki-a-try.

[Knight_Errant]

If you run out of chi, how do you tell? :D

[WingChun Lawyer]

If you run out of chi, how do you tell? :D

You lose weight. And you get friends, a life, maybe a girlfriend...

[Jasonds23]

"There ARE medications used to suppress the belief in ki.
They are dispensed by the practitioners of the ancient
art of psy-ki-a-try."

Hey dude, Your right! Are you for hire?

[WingChun Lawyer]

"There ARE medications used to suppress the belief in ki.
They are dispensed by the practitioners of the ancient
art of psy-ki-a-try."

Hey dude, Your right! Are you for hire?

Sorry, I´m a lawyer. I practice sue-do.

[Gyaku]

The following herb tea is good for overall well-being it should help to build overall wellbeing.

Combine the following:

1 x ginseng teabag
Juice of 1/2 a lemon
Slivers of Ginger.
Honey to taste.

Good luck.

WingChun Lawyer Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight_Errant
If you run out of chi, how do you tell?
You lose weight. And you get friends, a life, maybe a girlfriend...

More ki = more libido
More libido = Very Happy girlfriend

[WingChun Lawyer]

More ki = more libido
More libido = Very Happy girlfriend

Believer in ki = strange person

Strange person = scares away girls

[Gyaku]

No way dude, I've got a gorgeous and wickedly intelligent girlfriend (She's also a very happy young lady). Ki is good. No ki is boring. :rolleyes:

Ever heard about Sting and his Tantric methods. Trudy was avery happy woman.

[WingChun Lawyer]

I don´t know what ki is, even though I studied wing chun for two years under a teacher who believed in that. I do know what a ki believer is.

If you want to call adrenalin or endorphins ki, be my guest. But a strange unmeasurable energy which can be used to cure cancer, create world peace and power punches...nah.

And for the record, all the ki believers I met did not have girlfriends. Some of them did get goth chicks, but that was probably because they gave them drugs...

[Gyaku]

Some of them did get goth chicks, but that was probably because they gave them drugs...

Aah, theres the problem - wing chun - nothing to do with lack of ki. WC is a real turn off to girls. I mean seriously, what girl (Goth or otherwise) would go out with a skinny runt like Yip Man? All the ki in the world won't help.

[WingChun Lawyer]

Hm, actually my girfriend got pretty much interested when I said I did "kung fu". When I started Thai boxing she thought it was too brutal...anyway, ki belivers are not good people, so there.

PS: I am admired Yip Man ever got laid as well.

[reikislapper]

Hm, actually my girfriend got pretty much interested when I said I did "kung fu". When I started Thai boxing she thought it was too brutal...anyway, ki belivers are not good people, so there.

PS: I am admired Yip Man ever got laid as well.

Seeing that your a lawyer you get paid for the white lies you tell in court lol'
answering from the Ki supporters group :D :D :D :D .
lisa xx (love lawyers really lol)

[jonmonk]

Hm, actually my girfriend got pretty much interested when I said I did "kung fu". When I started Thai boxing she thought it was too brutal...anyway, ki belivers are not good people, so there.

PS: I am admired Yip Man ever got laid as well.

"I blow my nose in your general direction!"

Monty Python brought to you by Ki 'R Us

[Davey Bones]

anyway, ki belivers are not good people, so there.

Hey, hey hey! There's a diff between those of us who accept chi as part of our being and those freaks who believe they can do anime-style attacks with it, thanks! You're a lawyer, you should know better than to generalise like that...

btw, I am going to make the quote about "sue-do" my sig, I'm an attorney as well and that is hella funny!

[WingChun Lawyer]

The problem with ki/chi/whatever is that there is not a scientific definition of it. When you guys talk about ki, I don´t know if you are talking about the body´s magnetic field, some strange energy science has not discovered yet, endorphins, or universal consciousness.

And of course, not two ki believers can agree on what that thing is supposed to do as well.

So when someone says his ki is down, I can think of at least 32 possibilities, 17 of which are obscene.

[Davey Bones]

No prob, I just don't like being lumped in with the New Age Hippies and Power of the Mind site frequenters. ugh. Spirit Bullets and what not belong in anime not in a forum about martial arts.

[jonmonk]

The problem with ki/chi/whatever is that there is not a scientific definition of it. When you guys talk about ki, I don´t know if you are talking about the body´s magnetic field, some strange energy science has not discovered yet, endorphins, or universal consciousness.

And of course, not two ki believers can agree on what that thing is supposed to do as well.

So when someone says his ki is down, I can think of at least 32 possibilities, 17 of which are obscene.

hehe! I love it when people start to bring science into it. Are you a scientist WCL?

I am. I have no problem with Ki as a scientific concept.

[WingChun Lawyer]

hehe! I love it when people start to bring science into it. Are you a scientist WCL?

I am. I have no problem with Ki as a scientific concept.

I am not. Since you are, why don´t you define it?

[jonmonk]

I am not. Since you are, why don´t you define it?

I'll have a crack. I'm sure I posted this elsewhere already though.

As with scientific theories, I believe that Ki provides us with a useful model that allows us explain some of the universe that we're living in. I can't see it as being any different to Newtonian physics or Darwinism. The reason it's useful for me is that it allows me to combine morality and spirituality with the physical into a single model.

[WingChun Lawyer]

Very well. So is it possible for ki to be harnessed by human beings and spent/used up as some kind of fuel, as the thread starter claimed? If the answer is positive, how can this depletion be measured?

[MartialArtsSnob]

I don´t know what ki is, even though I studied wing chun for two years under a teacher who believed in that. I do know what a ki believer is.

If you want to call adrenalin or endorphins ki, be my guest. But a strange unmeasurable energy which can be used to cure cancer, create world peace and power punches...nah.

And for the record, all the ki believers I met did not have girlfriends. Some of them did get goth chicks, but that was probably because they gave them drugs...

WCL,
A lawyer, and an "Expert Witness" with your two years of WC. I hope you use a little better judgement when selecting experts to testify otherwise you might just be as lame of a laywer as you have made yourself to be a martial artist.

[WingChun Lawyer]

WCL,
A lawyer, and an "Expert Witness" with your two years of WC. I hope you use a little better judgement when selecting experts to testify otherwise you might just be as lame of a laywer as you have made yourself to be a martial artist.

Weird, I thought personal insults were against MAP policy. I´ll PM a mod and check.

[KickChick]

Indeed they are.

Please refer to MAP's TOS regarding this:
4.3 Abuse / Flaming / Derogatory Comments:
Abusive Comments, personal attacks, flaming, or derogatory insults or comments are strictly forbidden.
4.3.1 It is fine to disagree with another member’s point of view, but please do so in a mature and civil manner.
4.3.2 If someone posts to discuss their personal problems or seeks help from other forums members, please do not respond unless you have something positive or helpful to add.
4.3.3 If you find yourself being flamed or insulted by another member, please do not dignify that person with a response. Notify a moderator and let us handle it.

... consider this "handled"

[jonmonk]

Very well. So is it possible for ki to be harnessed by human beings and spent/used up as some kind of fuel, as the thread starter claimed? If the answer is positive, how can this depletion be measured?

Deep breath - I feel a great weight :)

I believe most people who are happy with using a Ki model would say that Ki cannot be "harnessed" by people. They might say they can influence the direction / time it flows in but I think there's something you're missing. In 'Ki theory', matter is also a form of ki. This means that your body is ki so making a distinction between the two may not be valid although you could argue that they are Ki in different states. If this is the case then perhaps you could say that it's possible to be depleted of Ki in one or more forms.

For part 2, I don't know how to measure it. That doesn't mean it's not measurable, it just means I don't know how.

[WingChun Lawyer]

You did say you consider ki to be a working model for understanding the universe, morality and spirituality. As a layman (you are the scientist here), I cannot see any problem with this - if you want to use a giant potato as a working model for all that, I suppose you could.

But see, if we consider ki a working model for all those concepts you want to explain, I cannot see how it can be a USEFUL working model. The concepts you are explaining by means of ki are so broad and so diverse that we might as well call ki "reality" and start looking for a new model all over again, don´t you agree?

And this does not answer the question on whether or not "ki" can be useful in martial arts, or whether or not is has already been explained by modern science. If you decide to call electricity ki, well, then my computer works on ki...

[jonmonk]

You did say you consider ki to be a working model for understanding the universe, morality and spirituality. As a layman (you are the scientist here), I cannot see any problem with this - if you want to use a giant potato as a working model for all that, I suppose you could.

You could indeed but like you say later on, it's got to be useful.

But see, if we consider ki a working model for all those concepts you want to explain, I cannot see how it can be a USEFUL working model. The concepts you are explaining by means of ki are so broad and so diverse that we might as well call ki "reality" and start looking for a new model all over again, don´t you agree?

But reality is a model. That's my point. Gravity is a model, the theory of relativity is a model.

And this does not answer the question on whether or not "ki" can be useful in martial arts, or whether or not is has already been explained by modern science. If you decide to call electricity ki, well, then my computer works on ki...

WCL, it's not a matter of whether or not something is explained in science already. It's about having an explanation that is useful, that allows you to understand in some way why it is that you have observed something and that allows you to predict the way in which something may or may not happen in the future.

[jonmonk]

WCL, I really need to scoot, I'm at work and it's nearly 7.30pm here. Just to let you know though I haven't run away, I'm genuinely interested to see if my thoughts hold up (well to me anyway!) and, in my best MA movie voice, I think I've found a worthy opponent :)

[WingChun Lawyer]

1) You could indeed but like you say later on, it's got to be useful.

2) But reality is a model. That's my point. Gravity is a model, the theory of relativity is a model.

3) WCL, it's not a matter of whether or not something is explained in science already. It's about having an explanation that is useful, that allows you to understand in some way why it is that you have observed something and that allows you to predict the way in which something may or may not happen in the future.

1) Yup.

2) Gravity is a model? OK. But it is a specific model, and it is therefore a useful model. With the help of that model we (and by we I mean you, scientist folks) can predict certain phenomena, and can understand a certain part of reality. You did not provide such a useful or relevant model to ki. Meaning, we still don´t know what ki is all about.

3) OK. But the explanation of Ki you provided is not useful for the purposes you just described. It is too broad.

[WingChun Lawyer]

WCL, I really need to scoot, I'm at work and it's nearly 7.30pm here. Just to let you know though I haven't run away, I'm genuinely interested to see if my thoughts hold up (well to me anyway!) and, in my best MA movie voice, I think I've found a worthy opponent :)

Same here! Hope we can continue this conversation later on.

[jonmonk]

I managed to get onto my computer at home (I compete with child and better half!). The reason is that with WCL's comments I want to change my POV.

Firstly, I think I referred to 'Ki Theory' at some stage. This is obviously a mistake because I've not even come up with a half decent hypothesis yet so a theory would be a long way off! Also, I've conceeded that I can't think of a way of objectively measuring either quantites or rate of flow of Ki so it's going to be very difficult to come up with a good experiment to back up the hypothesis. I think the best I'd be able to come up with would be a half reasonable, hypothesis.

Also, as an attempt to curb my expanding ego, I should point out that although I have trained as a Biologist, I was a lousy Biologist (just ask the tutors at the University of Hull). Please take this in the spirit in which it is intended (if not I guess that's good 'spiritual training anyway!).

Anyway, on to your last set of comments WCL. I think you have a point with 2 & 3. Ok, let's think about how we might use Ki as a model to explain something specific.

How about this as an opener (I reserve the right to beat a hasty retreat!)

I want to explain a concept to a student, let's say I want them to make a conscious decision that they will occupy some space. Perhaps I want to teach them how to take the space currently occupied by an opponent. I want them to understand that they need to visualise themselves in that space, or feel themselves in that space, they've got to 'own' that space. Both parties in the fight / match whatever, must be on no uncertain terms that that space belongs to my student.

One way I might try to get that concept across could be for me to say that I want them to use 'intent' to direct ki energy into that space. Another way might be to use my first description.

But say that in the next lesson, I need my student to feel rooted in his/her stance. I want to portray the sense of downness and contact with the ground. Again, I could use the previous sentence, or I could pin it on my Ki model instead and say that I want them to use intent to project energy downwards. The student can do one of 3 things now:

1. Think something along the lines of "ok, I've done something like this before, it's the same kinda thing but this time downwards" in which case it's been useful;
2. Think "I don't understand what the hell he's on about, I need a different explanation" in which case it hasn't been useful, so you try something else;
3. Decide you're a nutter and run away.

Let's look at a philosophical thingy. One of the concepts that I've seen in descriptions of Ki has been that that of duality. The idea that everything must exist in balance. We have masculine / feminine, dark / light, expansion / contraction etc etc, none of which is news to anyone here. A lot of people train with these principles in mind. In Aikido, and other martial arts, you have Tori and Uki. Tori must receive, blend with and neutralise Uki's 'attack'. I would suggest here that in the context of this attack / neutralisation which I'll term a 'scene', that Uki plays the role of YO and Tori the role of IN. But that's not where it ends. If you drill down into what happens in the 'scene' IMO what you see in well executed aikido especially are a whole bunch of subtle interplays between some kind of IN and some kind of YO. If we expand outwards from there, let's say the 'scene' is taking place in a dojo, you have more interplay between IN and YO but this time 'a level up' sort of thing (does that make sense). This time there are a bunch of people in one room chucking each other all over the mats but in the room next door there's a Yoga class or something i.e. a balance in people's interests. So, within Ki we see duality but within the components of duality we see more duality.

Ok, so let's get philosophical (and more long-winded!).

Lets 'zoom out' from the Aikido dojo and look at things from a different perspective.

When I was a child, I lived a number of years in a country where disease is a huge problem. Access to clean drinking water was not easy, we boiled it but always ran the risk of getting some hideous disease or other. The local people though were worse off. They didn't always have access to vaccines and other drugs. I remember once standing next to my mother while she spoke to another mother who's two 6 month old twins were dying of Tetnus. So how on earth can you justify the existence of something like that? Well, think of it this way perhaps. If there was no suffering, could you express love? For me (and I stress the 'for me' bit), this is also duality, balance and 'Ki'.

::jonmonk takes a deep breath 'coz he was going blue::

[MartialArtN00b]

I am not. Since you are, why don´t you define it?

Well im not a scientist, but im forced to take a thermodynamics class

One of the several definition of Ki is internal energy. In thermodynamics, the concept of internal energy is defined by a constant*change of temperature.

Obviously, given that sense, theres not alot of mysticism to it. Tensing up your muscle would be somewhat flexing your internal energy. It cant be work because work is defined over a distance. You dont need to move your arm to tense up your arm.

That would be my naive definition of ki.

Given that definition, I cant completely dismiss the concept of ki, because im not sure if there is a word that defines the scientific internal energy in the oriental language other than ki. So, ive adopted this definition, and decided that all ofshoot is exaggeration.

[Richdog]

I think Chi exists, it's just a general term to explain the hidden abilities of our body that dedicated and ancient martial artists have been utilising their whole life through years upon years of self-exploration and entire lifetimes of almost 24/7 intensive training... building muscle in their body that would never be built unless they did the special exercises that they did, which gave them their bizarre abilities. Things like the Golden Bell Qigong stuff etc etc.

And from my limited experience with Tai-Chi a lot of it is body-mechanics... there's a lot of "mystical" things you can do when you train all of your life to find the perfect body-structure so that every movement you do achieves maximum power with seemingly little effort.

I just don't believe you can project that internal body energy onto other things to heal them, or make a flock of birds fall from the sky with a contemptuous wave of your hand. :D

[Albert]

And for the record, all the ki believers I met did not have girlfriends. Some of them did get goth chicks, but that was probably because they gave them drugs...

lol, thats pretty funny, i believe in ki, and ive also got a handful of girlfriends, and there not drug using 'goth chicks' either.