To all the parents

[shotokanwarrior]

To all the mothers and fathers on this forum.

Your little darlings are safe. (Read this thread. Just ignore the disgusting sexual comments.)

Now, I'm off to enjoy walking the streets without fear. (I'm 14 years old.)

Martial arts girl fights off sex attacker (http://www.sheffieldtoday.net/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=58&ArticleID=902144)

[TheMightyMcClaw]

That's awesome. If I were that girl's parents, I'd be proud.

[Saz]

I'd be proud of her too, but I think its a mistake to assume that just because you practise a martial art, that your 100% safe.

Safer maybe, but not completely protected.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

best defense you can teach a young person is to scream as loud as they can and struggle like a madman. most of these kind of people are cowards and that kind of attention will have them running for it.

[Scarlet Mist]

You know, most 12 y-o martial artists might not have been so fortunate as to escape.

[holyheadjch]

best defense you can teach a young person is to scream as loud as they can and struggle like a madman. most of these kind of people are cowards and that kind of attention will have them running for it.

I agree with Ikken (twice in one day, wow) I doubt this girl escaped using karate, the guy probably didn't get a good grip on her and she pulled away and ran.

[Matt_Bernius]

Great points Ikken. You want to dig up the Dr Phil clip?

Look, there is no panacea for everything. Teach children to be safe. To respect the world but not fear it. Thats the best that anyone can do.

The idea of resisting and making a lot of noise is really important. But perhaps more important is to teach them to pay attention to their surroundings and trust in themselves that if they have a bad feeling about a situation they should pay attention to it.

- Matt

[tekkengod]

thats great and all, but it dosen't say what she did to escape at all so whos to say that her karate experiance helped her at all? whose 2 say she didn't just kick him in the nuts and gauge his eyes.

[nzric]

Kids shouldn't be taught to rely on martial arts. A dedicated adult can easily overpower a child, so their best strategies are to make a lot of noise and go for the face/shins/groin.

One of the best ideas is to teach your child to resist and yell loudly "you're not my parent, this is a stranger"

[silentwarrior]

perhaps we are thinking to much into the physical aspect that helped her. what im saying is maybe Karate helped her develope the coolmindedness and self confidence to escape the situation. instead of say freezing up and being unable to move.

[BoredNow]

perhaps we are thinking to much into the physical aspect that helped her. what im saying is maybe Karate helped her develope the coolmindedness and self confidence to escape the situation. instead of say freezing up and being unable to move.

Exactly - in fact that is the very reason I took up martial arts so that if ever I am attacked again I will (hopefully) be able react.

Hopefully the girl in this case will be able to get over the incident more quickly because she reacted and managed to save herself. I remember someone quoting me a study where victims who fight back recover quicker than those who do nothing.

[Tony Wolf]

Whe I was teaching self-defence for kids, one technique which proved itself very well was the "turtle". If you're being pursued, drop down, crawl under a parked car and begin yelling for all you're worth. It's extremely difficult for an adult to get at a child in this position, and an attacker faced with this physical difficulty plus the risk of the child's yells attracting attention is likely to give up quickly.

Tony

[Sgt_Major]

Whe I was teaching self-defence for kids, one technique which proved itself very well was the "turtle". If you're being pursued, drop down, crawl under a parked car and begin yelling for all you're worth. It's extremely difficult for an adult to get at a child in this position, and an attacker faced with this physical difficulty plus the risk of the child's yells attracting attention is likely to give up quickly.

Tony

Good point....hadnt thought of that.....my dad always told me to get a car between us and keep yelling........run in circles round the car if necessary....but never thought of going under it.....

[Kwajman]

Good for her. We had a student from our class who was attacked on her way to community college a year or so ago. She got caught between two cars by a guy. She ended up breaking a bunch of his fingers, his elbow, dislocated his knee and smashed his face up. She does a number of MA's so I'm sure it was a combination of things she used on him. I guess the poor guy was quite the mess when the police came and swept him up.

She said first she was terrified, then she got mad when she realized he didn't have a weapon, and thats when she worked him over.

[Scarlet Mist]

Kids shouldn't be taught to rely on martial arts. A dedicated adult can easily overpower a child, so their best strategies are to make a lot of noise and go for the face/shins/groin.

[/B]

Or split a motherfizzle's wig with a 44. Anyone ever seen a 12 year old kid with a pistol? Frightening.

[TheMightyMcClaw]

best defense you can teach a young person is to scream as loud as they can and struggle like a madman. most of these kind of people are cowards and that kind of attention will have them running for it.

And if karate can teach you to do one thing well, it's scream as loud as you can. ^_^

[shotokanwarrior]

DAMMIT sorry I have not replied to this thread, it's not on my subscription list for some reason.

Whe I was teaching self-defence for kids, one technique which proved itself very well was the "turtle". If you're being pursued, drop down, crawl under a parked car and begin yelling for all you're worth. It's extremely difficult for an adult to get at a child in this position, and an attacker faced with this physical difficulty plus the risk of the child's yells attracting attention is likely to give up quickly.

Great tactic. Honestly, no sarcasm. Except for one thing...must remember not to stray away from places with parked cars.

5'7 here so wouldn't fit under one anyway.

[Sgt_Major]

Great tactic. Honestly, no sarcasm. Except for one thing...must remember not to stray away from places with parked cars.

5'7 here so wouldn't fit under one anyway.

You really do have an attitude problem for some reason. There was actually a decent conversation going here, with some good ideas....like the one you just rubbished. We're talking about kids....kids (6-9). Are you a kid? Id say not, so how would you fit into the child category of crawling under a car?? :confused:

[Tony Wolf]

I can't tell if ShotokanWarior was rubbishing the turtle tactic or not ... I must be getting old. Anyway, he has two valid points; obviously it only works if you're in an area with parked cars, and size can be an issue (although I'm about 5'7" too, and I used to demo the move without too many problems). Young kids can generally drop and scramble pretty fast when they need to.

[CobraMaximus]

Have any of you thought that as the kid scrambles under the car the attacker just walks round the other side...?

[shotokanwarrior]

You really do have an attitude problem for some reason. There was actually a decent conversation going here, with some good ideas....like the one you just rubbished.

What the BLOODY HELL is your problem? I didn't rubbish it. Read my post, I actually said it was a great tactic. I also said 'honestly, no sarcasm.' But you seem to feel the need to slag off someone indiscriminately and you picked me without even reading my post to see if it actually deserved your hostility.

About the age thing...sorry about that. 'Kids' is an ambiguous term.

[Sever]

Have any of you thought that as the kid scrambles under the car the attacker just walks round the other side...?The kid stays under the car and makes a lot of noise. It's going to be difficult to get the child in that position

[Sgt_Major]

What the BLOODY HELL is your problem? I didn't rubbish it. Read my post, I actually said it was a great tactic. I also said 'honestly, no sarcasm.' But you seem to feel the need to slag off someone indiscriminately and you picked me without even reading my post to see if it actually deserved your hostility.

About the age thing...sorry about that. 'Kids' is an ambiguous term.

I read your post, but it seems I mis-took you. My sincerest apologies.....

[Tony Wolf]

Yes, just in case I wasn't clear before, the "turtle tactic" involves crawling underneath a car (so the attacker has extreme difficulty getting at the kid in the first place) and then making a lot of noise (so the attacker is even less inclined to stick around and try to get the kid).

Tony

[shotokanwarrior]

It's all right, Silat Pupil.

By the way, doesn't 'going for the face/shins/groin' (nzric) count as martial arts? the grisly, savage stuff is martial arts too, not just the jumping kicks and ...stuff that gets all the social stigma.

I would also recommend going for the knees - correct me if I'm wrong here but I think it takes something like 4lbs to dislocate someone's leg. 4lbs is nothing. A heel hook or a side kick would do it.

But yeah, I agree with Ikken Hisatsu. (Seems to happening progressively more often these days - what is happening to me? :):):)) An attacker fears noise more than anything else, and these people are sick cowards, so screaming blue murder would probably get rid of them.

[CobraMaximus]

One thing sever, think about it this way.

Im 5'4 and my arms provide over 20 inchs of reach. That is rather a lot, nearly 2 foot in old money. Think about the proportions of a car. That means the person could probably reach the child from the sides.

Also the one thing people are forgetting here is the intimidation, the O Sh..... factor. Now how many young children do you realy expect to act rationally, cool headedly and take a careful course of action. Effectively none. Id say any person younger than 13 has very little chance of acting effectively. Their first instinct is struggle, scream, run. They also wont stop to hide, they want to get away. All this while they are totally petrified. I have been attacked by surprise once when I was 15 and believe me its all very well saying 'you could do this' but realistically most of what you plan and learn goes down the can. It is veyr well from an adults point of view when you have experienced stress and so on and you handle it and make it sound so easy.

Not offending the intelect of kids or anything like that BUT from a psychological point of view many will be too petrified (depending on the attack form) to do anything, and hte others won't cry out but try to struggle. Only a few will actually scream. They will just try to run away in vain.

Now the soloution I say (even though many will deff it) is don't let young kids go out really late, dont take shortcuts down dark alleys, stay in open public areas so if someone tries to grab you someone will notice.

[Tony Wolf]

CobraMaximus,

I should point out that the kid isn't passively lying underneath the car, s/he is screaming, moving away from the attacker if they try to reach under, bracing his/her body between the car and the street to make themselves harder to drag out, kicking, biting and scratching.

I agree that panic is a huge factor and suggest that anyone who wants to incorporate the turtle into their SD teaching for youngsters should use scenario training to make it as realistic as possible, within the bounds of what kids can handle in a training course.

Now the soloution I say (even though many will deff it) is don't let young kids go out really late, dont take shortcuts down dark alleys, stay in open public areas so if someone tries to grab you someone will notice.

All good advice; the turtle is offered as an option for worst-case scenarios.

[CobraMaximus]

You are still presuming many of them would be able to react. No self defense class I have ever seen teaches you in a good enviroment. You might as well be doing it in a sealed room. There is no way to condition yourself for the fear, shock, surprise and horror of an attack and even if there was few children could handle it. That fearlessness comes from experience not from training so all you can do is hope a child by chance can react

[Infrazael]

Personally, if I had a daughter I'd make sure she knew FMA and carried around kali sticks under her sleeves every time she went out. :rolleyes:

Or not. . . . . . . . .

[CobraMaximus]

Or you could stop your nine year old kid being out at 11 Pm like most responsible parents would.

[Sgt_Major]

Most child attacks occur between 4 - 7 pm

granted some happen later, but those 3 hours are when there is the biggest concentration of kids on the streets.

[CobraMaximus]

Hence the whole go round in a group thing comes in. One of them will get away or the group of them will scare off attackers because there are too many.

Most of it is common sense

[alex_000]

The press exaggerates a lot when stuff like that happen. I refuse to believe that a 12 year old girl escaped an attacker beacuse of her karate knowledge and skill.

She's a brave girl that I accept.

[CobraMaximus]

Yes, I think you have a point alex. Mostly probably what they called the karate was stabbing him in the foot with a stilleto heel, coshing him with a bag then running aay

[shotokanwarrior]

I refuse to believe that a 12 year old girl escaped an attacker beacuse of her karate knowledge and skill.

You would probably also refuse to believe it if a huge asteroid landed on your country. Being ridiculous and preposterous does not mean it is not happening. You don't have a leg to stand on refusing to believe something which actually happened.

Now, if only they documented exactly how she got away from him, then we could have a right old flame war.