War

[Guitarboy1212]

What is the stupidest thing you have heard someone say about the war
" or

Whats the stupidest thing you've heard someone say because of being scared of something stupid (ex. All asians have sars ... ex. all Iraqi's are evil and diserve to die)

[YODA]

"There is no threat of terrorism now that we've sorted out Afghanistan and Iraq"

Doh!

[Adam]

The boobie prize goes to Mohammed Saeed Al-Sahaf of course, for being thoroughly entertaining during during the whole Gulf War II! Go to www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com for a wide range of undying quotes.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

The whole SARS thing, its just pointless. In Africa incidentally they've had a disease called ARS (Acute Respiratory Syndrome) for some time now, with exactly the same symptoms, yet suddenly people start worrying about it when it hits another country. Personally I'd have to say the World Health Organisation should be dispensed with, they do more harm than good and since most of their spending is within their own ranks they really don't help anyone. Now all that they've managed to do about SARS is spread hysteria across the world and damage businesses in every city a single case of SARS has shown up.

[Guitarboy1212]

Here are some stupid quotes for the readers:

"I want everybody to hear loud and clear that I'm going to be the president of everybody."

"Presidents, whether things are good or bad get the blame, I understand that."

"We both use Colgate toothpaste."

"First, we would not accept a treaty that would not have been ratified, nor a treaty that I thought made sense for the country."

"My administration has been called upon all the leaders in the - in the Middle East to do everything they can to stop the violence, to tell the different parties involved that peace will never happen."

MR. UNDERESTIMATE
"The folks who conducted to act on our country on September 11 made a big mistake. They underestimated America. They underestimated our resolve, our determination, our love for freedom. They misunderestimated the fact that we love a neighbor in need. They misunderestimated the compassion of our country. I think they misunderestimated the will and determination of the commander in chief, too."

"They didn't think we were a nation that could conceivably sacrifice for something greater than our self; that we were soft, that we were so self-absorbed and so materialistic that we wouldn't defend anything we believe in. My, were they wrong. They just were reading the wrong magazine, or watching the wrong Springer show."

"We're concerned about AIDS inside our White House - make no mistake about it."

"If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."

"And so, in my State of the - my State of the Union - or state - my speech to the nation, whatever you want to call it, speech to the nation - I asked Americans to give 4,000 years - 4,000 hours over the next - the rest of your life - of service to America. That's what I asked - 4,000 hours."

"There's no question that the minute I got elected, the storm clouds on the horizon were getting nearly directly overhead."

"I am mindful of the difference between the executive branch and the legislative branch. I assured all four of these leaders that I know the difference, and that difference is they pass the laws and I execute them."

[Adam]

I take it you're not exactly thrilled with Boy George Bush?

[Guitarboy1212]

What are you talking about. Why wouldn't I like someone who kills inocent people without any logic behind it, and making up words that don't exist at the same time? :D

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I'm sorry, which innocent people?

Besides, misunderestimated is a fantastic word, and if it didn't exist before it bloody well should now. Personally I'd prefer someone who makes up their own words and is understood by everyone to someone who checks the thesaurus and dictionary every time they're writing a speech and is understood by no one.

[YODA]

Originally posted by ckdstudent
I'm sorry, which innocent people?

Besides, misunderestimated is a fantastic word, and if it didn't exist before it bloody well should now. Personally I'd prefer someone who makes up their own words and is understood by everyone to someone who checks the thesaurus and dictionary every time they're writing a speech and is understood by no one.


((((Applause))))

[Guitarboy1212]

Well, I guess your right. Those iraqi's aren't inocent. I mean because their Iraqi they deserve to die. Good call ckdstudent. Why don't we just kill every ethnic group that is different in some way. I mean if their not like us they aught to be right? Well for starters, let's just kill the buddhists in China and Japan. If they don't believe in God then they should right?

WHY DON'T YOU USE YOUR BRAIN? JUST BECAUSE THEIR DIFFERENT DOESN'T MEAN THEIR WRONG OR THAT THEY DESERVE TO DIE.

It's people like you who say stupid stuff like, "all asians have sars."

Hey, I LIVE in America, and I'm not proud of it. It's a country filled with pussies, who whenever something scares them, or is different, they just want to kill or destroy it. It's a country where every square inch of land has a flaq stuck in it. Where if you walk around you still see people lighting candles, and crying for the people who died in the september 11th attacks. If people can't get over it then this country is weak.

[YODA]

Sure - there were innocent people killed in Iraq.

There were innocent Kurds gassed to death in 1988 & innocent people burned and crushed to death on Sept 11th 2001 too.

[Guitarboy1212]

I'm not saying Suddam Hussein is right, because I don't think he is. I just wish their was a way to take him out of power with out all the deaths. I just think that we didn't take the time to think of more solutions, and i think that's wrong.

[YODA]

I just wish their was a way to take him out of power with out all the deaths.

Don't we all mate - don't we all.

I just think that we didn't take the time to think of more solutions, and i think that's wrong.

I disagree - we gave him 10 years.

Don't forget - if we all agreed there would be no need for a discussion forum :D

[Guitarboy1212]

Yoda, we didn't give him ten years. We signed a treaty, then forgot about him for ten years :D then after the sept. 11 attacks decided to remember about him. We then gave him a very short time to do anything, and then attacked

[Melanie]

I don't believe any one really "forgot" about him. He was out of the public eye but there were always embargos against Iraq. Special Ops and surveillance were always on him. How do you think we (US & GB) managed to find the arms storage, "treatment" cells, etc. We have always had intelligence on what was going on over there. I don't believe for even a moment we just woke up one morning and thought lets bomb the sh!t out of Iraq and kill our own boys. Don't get me wrong - I don't agree with war personally but as snipers couldn't get to the real Saddam and people were still being unfairly treated and murdered summink had to happen in the end.

[Guitarboy1212]

What about all the reporters that somehow got interviews with him. Couldn't they have had a fake camera, that was really a gun, and just shot him during the interview. OK, the interviewer would die, but 1 death is better than 50,000

[Melanie]

What an imagination :D

Nice idea, pity we didn't think of it...

But are we sure it was the real Saddam?

[YODA]

So - where do you think old Saddam is now?

- Dead?
- Holed up in some basement in Baghdad?
- On holiday in Syris?
- On holiday with Osama bin Ladden?

[Guitarboy1212]

I think he's still alive, seeing as how, in my mind, why would iraq say he's still alive if he's dead. How would him being alive help them. as to where he is. Probably in one of the underground passage ways, or maybe in a hospital getting plastic surgery, so that way he wouldn't have to run. :D

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Well, I guess your right. Those iraqi's aren't inocent. I mean because their Iraqi they deserve to die. Good call ckdstudent.

No, they didn't deserve to die, however there was really no other option. The population of Iraq had over ten years to rise up and do something about Saddam themselves, and now its been done for them, and because someone outside Iraq had to take the hard decision and actually get the problem solved people have started crying foul. Shame we didn't get a chance to see what they'd be crying had Saddam actually managed to use any of his interesting weapons.


Why don't we just kill every ethnic group that is different in some way. I mean if their not like us they aught to be right? Well for starters, let's just kill the buddhists in China and Japan. If they don't believe in God then they should right?

Hmm, interesting, no connection to what I said whatsoever, but ignoring that for the time being lets look at your suggestion. If we killed off everyone different then the world would be completely peaceful, and the one person left alive would commit suicide through loneliness. Diversity, in all its forms, is essential to prevent gene and meme pool stagnation.


WHY DON'T YOU USE YOUR BRAIN? JUST BECAUSE THEIR DIFFERENT DOESN'T MEAN THEIR WRONG OR THAT THEY DESERVE TO DIE.

I didn't say it did. I just said that innocent people didn't die, maybe I should have said that they didn't die unnecessarily.


It's people like you who say stupid stuff like, "all asians have sars."

Well lessee shall we, given that I know that SARS is nothing like the crisis the papers have invented for sales, and the WHO have exaggerrated to get themselves more funds to pay their employees with, I think I'll ignore that one.


Hey, I LIVE in America, and I'm not proud of it. It's a country filled with pussies, who whenever something scares them, or is different, they just want to kill or destroy it.

Unlike of course every other country that wants to do the same thing, but doesn't, because America's told them not to and is bigger.


It's a country where every square inch of land has a flaq stuck in it. Where if you walk around you still see people lighting candles, and crying for the people who died in the september 11th attacks. If people can't get over it then this country is weak.

Right, so people crying over casualties and deaths of people on their own land, of people and friends that they knew and loved, is weak, but screaming over the deaths of people who were supporting (whether actively or simply by accepting it and allowing it to happen) is strong, gotcha.


What about all the reporters that somehow got interviews with him. Couldn't they have had a fake camera, that was really a gun, and just shot him during the interview. OK, the interviewer would die, but 1 death is better than 50,000

Yep, that would work perfectly, so long as Saddam had less security that most museums. Come on, all you'd need to pick up that would be an x-ray scanner and a half-decent metal detector. Besides which there's no guarantee that you've got the actual Saddam.

I suppose you'd have volunteered to pull the trigger.

[Guitarboy1212]

"Right, so people crying over casualties and deaths of people on their own land, of people and friends that they knew and loved, is weak, but screaming over the deaths of people who were supporting (whether actively or simply by accepting it and allowing it to happen) is strong, gotcha"

Hey, it's okay for people to cry over casualties and the deaths of the people they loved, but 3 YEARS. How long does it take for them to stop making a big deal about it.

And I agree with you when you said\

"Unlike of course every other country that wants to do the same thing, but doesn't, because America's told them not to and is bigger.

I think that America being the bully/leader is wrong. Just because were bigger doesn't mean were right.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Hey, it's okay for people to cry over casualties and the deaths of the people they loved, but 3 YEARS. How long does it take for them to stop making a big deal about it.

Depends how much the media push it. Besides, on the 11th of November every year I go out and put a wreath down at a memorial, and that's a tragedy that happened over fifty years ago.


I think that America being the bully/leader is wrong. Just because were bigger doesn't mean were right.

Nope, but if its a choice between America and several hundred little power hungry lunatics with nukes I'll take America over anarchy any time. And at least they're not fascist dictators who believe in racial purity, or religious purity, or whatever other fanatics are out there at the moment.

[Andy Murray]

I'm smelling Testosterone on this thread.

Did one of you guys just hit puberty?

[YODA]

....... not sure. Maybe they just hit pub :D

[LilBunnyRabbit]

....... not sure. Maybe they just hit pub

Not so much hitting as being dropped on it from a very great height and having a lot of tension to work out, but no specific target as yet so that I can't post a rant in Andy's Rants about it. Plus a far, far too long discussion of this exact same topic at the pub, which led to my wallet contents being poured into alcoholic form, and a headache.

[grandmaster mat]

i think the us forces killed more of their own men and british men than hey did of anything else!

[Spike]

The British Army took more casualties from American fire than from Iraqi fire

[grandmaster mat]

Originally posted by Spike
The British Army took more casualties from American fire than from Iraqi fire
yep as they do in every war, that kinda gets to me becuase those casualties could of definatly been prevented, did any of you see on the news when a US bomb was accidently dropped on some kurdish army people? british reporters were filming the kurds at the time, the translator lost his legs and died i fink, and the camera man lived, they showed the video of it on tv,

[Spike]

Murphy`s law of combats
rule number 4) There`s no such thing as friendly fire: the person shooting at you is not your friend

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Rule number 5) If there is a friendly fire incident, there will be a journalistic vulture around to record it for the public back home.

[Guitarboy1212]

Yah I saw that on the news. The camara got all bloody. They don't play that stuff in the U.S., because they don't want U.S. citizens finding out how bloody wars are. So how did I find out? Well about 2 weeks ago my family and me went on vacation to New Zealand. Anyway, the news rocks there. They axually have something different on then 50 channels of flaq waving, so
I got to see that video. Only wished I had recorded it to show the Americans at my school how wrong they are about the war, with their stupid coments. ex. SEE no one died during the war! When they say stuff like that it just pisses me off. maybe I should have stayed in new Zealand, at least they have people who know what the hell their talking about when they debate.

[Adam]

PLEASE GOD, NOT AGAIN! I'M SICK OF THIS TOPIC!

Let's just all ease up on the calling each other stupid, okay? Far as I remember, this topic has already been discussed endlessly both on this forum and on every other forum on the net. Please, PLEASE go somewhere else and discuss this so that we all will remain friends. And frankly, everything that has been said here has been said 1.000.000 times before by other people, so there's really no need to repeat endlessly.

[YODA]

You mean I cannot express an opinion or disagree with someone because others elsewhere have already discussed it? Come on Adam - There's no future in a discussion forum like that!

I fully intend remaining friends - and the ability to disagree and remain friends is paramount to a strong healthy friendship :D

Now naff off stupid :D

[pgm316]

Friend of mine in America also said the American news is very bad. He said it hardly shows the British or any of the little accidents!

On the other hand, only a stupid person would expect the war to be a nice experience. All it can ever be is the lessor of two evils. Innocent people will always die :(

Sacrifices have to be made for the greater good, is the world now a better place........... ?

[Guitarboy1212]

On the other hand, only a stupid person would expect the war to be a nice experience

well there's the average american for you.

And I fully agree with everyone staying friends
:)

Especially with people getting mad at me for my forum rampage, which I apoligized for in the thread (2,500 post, congratulations to yoda).

Oh and hey, whoever makes the smilies for this site should look into a common one called :evil:

[Cougar_v203]

yea.

from now on i'm doing only one liners ;) sike.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Yah I saw that on the news. The camara got all bloody. They don't play that stuff in the U.S., because they don't want U.S. citizens finding out how bloody wars are.

Alternatively it might be because the US stations believe in something called decency. I know its shocking and sensational footage, but it sounds to me like the same people who pushed paramedics out of the way to take pictures of Diana's ring.

Admittedly though the American news is a little biased towards American events. They seem to miss the fact that there's a whole world out there where things happen.


Sacrifices have to be made for the greater good, is the world now a better place........... ?

Maybe, but at least its no worse than it was, and for a few people it probably is better without the threat of summary execution or state-sponsored torture hanging over their heads.

[Spike]

"Alternatively it might be because the US stations believe in something called decency. I know its shocking and sensational footage, but it sounds to me like the same people who pushed paramedics out of the way to take pictures of Diana's ring."

I think you`re being a bit harsh, showing the brutality of war isn`t really the same thing as cheap sensationalism, when there`s a war on people want to know what`s happening, and if it means showing things that are shocking, I would prefer that to showing pictures of our brave boys in their nice clean uniforms and glossing over anything unsettling

[Guitarboy1212]

Alternatively it might be because the US stations believe in something called decency

I don't give a damn about "decency". Maybe all the pussies who are still scared that terrorists are gonna kill them for no logical reason do. I all want is the news. I don't give a damn if it "affends" people. Because like Spike said

when there`s a war on people want to know what`s happening, and if it means showing things that are shocking, I would prefer that to showing pictures of our brave boys in their nice clean uniforms and glossing over anything unsettling

I would rather see the gory stuff then watching some soldiers in perfectly clean suits soluting to the tv. It's people who are scared and can't exept the truth, that keep people like me from getting to it. They have to cover up the bloodieness with their everythings all right atitude. If they don't show all of whats going on then they don't deserve to be called news.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I think you`re being a bit harsh, showing the brutality of war isn`t really the same thing as cheap sensationalism, when there`s a war on people want to know what`s happening, and if it means showing things that are shocking, I would prefer that to showing pictures of our brave boys in their nice clean uniforms and glossing over anything unsettling

Well lets look at it another way, in the midst of all those pictures of blood and guts from the war, did anyone mention a little disease called Acute Respiratory Syndrome (not SARS, though the symptoms are identical) that's been around in Africa for several years? How about the fact that people are starving and dying every day in London, or New York? Nope, not sensational enough to pull in the viewing numbers.


I don't give a damn about "decency". Maybe all the pussies who are still scared that terrorists are gonna kill them for no logical reason do. I all want is the news. I don't give a damn if it "affends" people.

I give a damn about decency, and I'm not someone who's scared that the terrorists are gonna kill everyone. I've lived within half an hour of London for most of my life, I've been in the city when bombs planted by the IRA have gone off, I know more about terrorism than you could even imagine. If you want the news that much, go out and find it, but don't force it on people who don't want to see any more violence than they have to, and only want to know what's going on in the world.


I would rather see the gory stuff then watching some soldiers in perfectly clean suits soluting to the tv. It's people who are scared and can't exept the truth, that keep people like me from getting to it. They have to cover up the bloodieness with their everythings all right atitude. If they don't show all of whats going on then they don't deserve to be called news.

So instead showing sensationalist pictures of people being killed, slaughtered, blown up, is better than simply telling people its going on? You want a five year old kid, sitting and watching the news, to be confronted by things like that? No one's covering anything up, the information's all available, but if you want to find it then put some effort in and look for it, don't try and get the media to force it down everyone else's throats just because you want to see it, they're bad enough as it is.

[Brad Ellin]

" It's people who are scared and can't exept the truth, that keep people like me from getting to it"... All the same, if you don't like the face of the news being presented, turn the channel. At least we have that option. You believe that the American news is biased? Turn the channel. Watch BBC or the French news or Al-Jazeera. You have that choice. Go online, search out the news. Just remember this, how can you be 100% sure that what you see or read is 100% accurate? You can't. Everyone is going to present the news (or facts) the way THEY want you to see/read it. Therefore, read/watch/listen to as many sources as you possible can and draw your own conclusions.

[Andy Murray]

Sensationally put CKD, but true.

History books and war movies have enough gore for anyone.

I've seen enough for four lifetimes thanks.

Could we lay off war folks please?

Discussion is hardly going to enlighten anyone!

[Spike]

"So instead showing sensationalist pictures of people being killed, slaughtered, blown up, is better than simply telling people its going on? You want a five year old kid, sitting and watching the news, to be confronted by things like that? No one's covering anything up, the information's all available, but if you want to find it then put some effort in and look for it, don't try and get the media to force it down everyone else's throats just because you want to see it, they're bad enough as it is."

Just telling people it`s going on doesn`t bring home how bad it actually is.
I don`t want a five year old kid to be subjected to constantly gruesome images but I think from as early an age as possible childrn should see straight away that war is bad, then there might be fewer of them.

[Guitarboy1212]

So instead showing sensationalist pictures of people being killed, slaughtered, blown up, is better than simply telling people its going on? You want a five year old kid, sitting and watching the news, to be confronted by things like that?

Hey, the thing is, there not simply telling the people whats going on. There not giving us the news straight. And guess what, the world isn't a perfect place. There is no perefect place. Everyones gotta wake up to it sometime. You can't turn off the t.v. every time they start to say something grousome (not sure on the spelling). Some time, some how, everyone has to wake up to the reality that people die, that people get hurt, that people get there legs cut off in battle, that people get there heart shot through. The world is not a pretty place. And if your gonna survive in this world, then you need to know the truth. I need to know the truth.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Personally I'd prefer, if I have kids, that they don't have to find out what people do until they're old enough not to come up to me and ask why the bad men are hurting each other, because I know I couldn't answer them. Could you?

[morphus]

If we're talking about what the mini-people should and should'nt see or hear about, then i'll have a say!

I have not hidden too much from my children(within reason), if they hear someone say something (swear etc) or see someone hurting someone else(violence etc) be it on T.V or else where, i've more or less encouraged them to ask about what they've seen or heard. I guide them!

In this world, it's not so much what children witness, it's telling them that what they witnessed was RIGHT OR WRONG, and perhaps WHEN AND WHERE or WHETHER it is APPROPRIATE to perform or (speak) such actions!

People often get parental guidence wrong, and all too often don't care (disfunctional familys) of course there are other factors to take into consideration, hey - but one thing at a time!;)

There's nothing wrong with the world, it's the people living on it!:p

[Greg-VT]

Originally posted by morphus
There's nothing wrong with the world, it's the people living on it!:p

Yes. I totally agree. A lot of people just need to wake up, and have a look around, and think. Are their blind efforts to make the world a better place making it a worse place? Maybe. I think so. While I'm saying this I'm thinking of the US. Just look at their laws, and then at their people, not all. (generalisation, no offence).

Another very obvious example. Two actually.

During the 2nd Gulf war, protesters over here, illegally climbed the Sydney Opera House ( You know, that Beautiful, White Sailed, Aus Land mark), then illegally painted "NO WAR" in huge, bright red paint. Red tile paint, on white tiles. took nearly two days (maybe more) to get it off. When the two protesters got down, they were asked why they did it. They said something along the lines of "We are protesting the war. The war is illegal." .....WTF?!?

Again during the war, more protests, on the street. They were violent street protests. The reason behind it? "Stop the violence in the Gulf"

[Guitarboy1212]

Hey, if i have kids then i want them to know whats going on in the world. i wouldn't be afraid to tell them the truth, because that would be my responsiblity as a parent. no matter how much i want to or not, it's my responsibility to tell them the truth about the world. And Ving, when they said the war is illegal, they meant that slaughtering inocent people should be illegal, so don't say what the ****. Those people who wrote that, did it without violence, and did it because of there dedication to save the inocent lives.

[Greg-VT]

Originally posted by Guitarboy1212
.....And Ving, when they said the war is illegal, they meant that slaughtering inocent people should be illegal, so don't say what the ****. Those people who wrote that, did it without violence, and did it because of there dedication to save the inocent lives.

Ok, so by them saying that "slaughtering inocent people" (which didn't happen) is illegal, its ok for them to break the law?!?
So now it's ok for me to go out and kill a few people legally because I think something else, not yet proven, is illegal?!?

They didn't save ****, just made idiots out of them selfs. To save inocent lives?!! For two days a whole crew of people had to risk their lives cleaning that **** off!!!

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Ok, so by them saying that "slaughtering inocent people" (which didn't happen) is illegal, its ok for them to break the law?!?
So now it's ok for me to go out and kill a few people legally because I think something else, not yet proven, is illegal?!?

If killing five hundred people would save five hundred and one, would you do it?

How about killing ten, with a 10% chance of saving a thousand?

Where do you draw the line?

[Greg-VT]

Hmm, ok so what YOU are basically saying now is...

…that its ok for a group of Iraqis to die, in an effort to remove a dictator that may (and HAS) kill thousands more Iraqis over the next 10-20 years?

Hmm yes, funny that. Has that been what you have been saying all along?!?