Buddhism: Having too much desire??

[RobotBuddha]

Hello

I am a practicing Buddhist, as in a try to follow the five precepts, and try to re-evulate my desires in life. I feel I am able to give up many things in my life: alcohol, meat, stealing, lying and so forth. But I have the hardest time with relationships not just w/ significant others but any loved ones. Which leads me to believe why get into a relationship. I feel like I am too attached to my boyfriend and that to lose him would be completely devasting. But then again what is the difference of losing him now or in 50 years when we are married. How can I feel some sort of detatchment with him (so that I do no feel suffering from my desires) and still have a loving relationship?

Does anyone have some perspective on this?

[soggycat]

Hello

I am a practicing Buddhist, ..........

Does anyone have some perspective on this?
Consider these 2 statements and how you relate to it:
“I need him , therefore I love him.”
OR
“I love him, therefore I need him.”

One contains dysfunction and co-dependency.


Many people say stuff like:
“ I was nothing until I met you”
“ You make me happy”
“ I can’t live without you”
“ You make me feel complete”
“ You make me feel good about myself”

All these statements sound romantic and perpetuated by morally deficient media, rock lyrics and popular culture.
Many cannot see that these are sentiments of a person seeking approval, one who places the responsibility of their own happiness in someone else’s hands.
They blame others for their unhappiness when things go wrong.

IMHO to have a better chance at having a fulfilling relationship:
You have to be happy with yourself even before you meet him
You have to feel complete.
You can live by ourself comfortably

The only reason to have a relationship is so you don’t have to be lonely.

In a healthy relationship, both partners should be able to say:
” I don’t really need you to make me happy, but I choose to be with you because I enjoy your company”

The “ need” is therefore removed, non-attachment is reduced and this will be more consistent with Buddhist and Taoist “non-attachment”

Hope this helps.

[gerard]

Having relationships is part of the purification process, but at the end once you become more and more spiritual then relationships (a form of attachment), and their prime goal (sex and reproduction), are no longer necessary.

Highly spiritual practitioners don't need relationships because they hinder progress, especially sex.

Read this thread:

http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=11036


Wish you the best in your spiritual cultivation,


:)

[Strafio]

I think you're thinking the "wrong" way.

Seeing attachments and desires as things to be "eliminated".
I think that you're merely to overcome them by realising that they in themselves are impermanent and won't lead to happiness.

I think that the best way to approach the current situation is just love him for the moment. Enjoy the time you spend with him. Just don't get attached to delusions of there being a certain future with him and that these times will last forever.
That way you'll be equipped to accept a parting, be it "the end of the relationship" or through death, you loved him through the time you were together but now you understand that you each had different paths to take?

Something like that?

I guess that's the way I'm sort of seeing it. :)

[reikislapper]

Having relationships is part of the purification process, but at the end once you become more and more spiritual then relationships (a form of attachment), and their prime goal (sex and reproduction), are no longer necessary.

Highly spiritual practitioners don't need relationships because they hinder progress, especially sex.

Read this thread:

http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=11036


Wish you the best in your spiritual cultivation,


:)

I already know what some of you are going to say to this one BUT I'm going to say it anyway, what a load of rubbish lol.
What planet are they from, if you don't need any sex or anything else then how come your on this planet, without sex and reproduction none of the buddhist folk would exist. This has really got me going and I'm sorry to cause offence to your belief but you need to start seeing life for what it is and not through a book or web page.
You may be a monk or even thinking of becoming one, I don't know, but if you are one then I'm sorry for saying something which you may not agree with and it's your choice but I can't agree with you on this one. I would like you to explain yourself more as I may have got it wrong so please carry on and let me know as I'm prepared to listen to your view.
fallentoa.

[bambeer]

Robot buddha,

Sounds like your attached to the precepts, which also hinders you on the path. The middle path is a hard place to tread, but once you get your balance, the extremes are very far off.

Relationships are wonderful things and can certainly add to life.
Mr/ms Strafio said it rather nicely.

Appreciate the moment your in and if it includes your boyfriend then thats not a bad thing.

cheers,

bambeer

[Capt Ann]

Relationships are wonderful things and can certainly add to life.
Relationships are the whole purpose of life.

Robot buddha, you view desires as something to be eliminated. I prefer the taoist approach to seeking balance---think of the Korean flag, with the yin/yang symbol in the middle--the bars off in the corners represent different elements that must be kept in balance. In two opposite corners are the symbols for fire (emotions, passions, desires) and water (your spirit, mind). This is a picture, to me, that instead of trying eliminate all desires, we should strive to balance them with our mind and spirit. They should be controlled: not allowed to burn unchecked, but not eliminated either.

I guess a good question to ask yourself is: are all desires bad? Is it 'bad' to desire world peace, justice, self-improvement, or the ability/opportunity to help others?

Perhaps having desires results in suffering because your desires go unmet, and maybe that's difficult, but still better than having no desires at all. I want to be attached to other people. I want to care about them, walk with them in times of difficulty, encourage them, etc., but doing so will cause me pain. Perhaps that pain is not a bad thing. Don't we view self-sacrifice (giving for the sake of others) to be a virtuous thing? Perhaps this is like what a wise ancient king once said: "In much knowledge there is much sorrow." I truly ache for the tsunami victims in south Asia, because I know of their plight, but it drives me to want to help them. I could just change the TV channel and not read anything more about them.....ignorance would truly be bliss, but at their expense.

If you enter a relationship, you will risk emotional pain and suffering.....but my experience is that it is a risk worth taking.

All the best to you,
Ann R.

[soggycat]

I already know what some of you are going to say to this one BUT I'm going to say it anyway, what a load of rubbish lol.
What planet are they from, if you don't need any sex or anything else then how come your on this planet, without sex and reproduction none of the buddhist folk would exist. This has really got me going and I'm sorry to cause offence to your belief but you need to start seeing life for what it is and not through a book or web page.
You may be a monk or even thinking of becoming one, I don't know, but if you are one then I'm sorry for saying something which you may not agree with and it's your choice but I can't agree with you on this one. I would like you to explain yourself more as I may have got it wrong so please carry on and let me know as I'm prepared to listen to your view.
fallentoa.
I think there’s a common misunderstanding here.
No one is saying you don’t need sex.
Everyone needs sex to reproduce.
But one’s attitude to sex that is the issue.
Many people regard sex as a predominantly RECREATIONAL activity even though the main purpose was PROCREATIONAL.
Modern society uses sex as a drug, entertainment and a way to stimulate and satisfy desires.

Buddhist and especially Taoist views to sex are considerably different. Sex is to be predominantly PROCREATIONAL in nature. If sex is turned into a recreation, that would be a source of creating desires, attachments and ultimately lead to much disappointment and unhappiness.

It might surprise you if I reminded you that many mammals copulate mebbe once a year. They do it to ensure the continuation of the species, not because they are bored.

[reikislapper]

I think there’s a common misunderstanding here.
No one is saying you don’t need sex.
Everyone needs sex to reproduce.
But one’s attitude to sex that is the issue.
Many people regard sex as a predominantly RECREATIONAL activity even though the main purpose was PROCREATIONAL.
Modern society uses sex as a drug, entertainment and a way to stimulate and satisfy desires.

Buddhist and especially Taoist views to sex are considerably different. Sex is to be predominantly PROCREATIONAL in nature. If sex is turned into a recreation, that would be a source of creating desires, attachments and ultimately lead to much disappointment and unhappiness.

It might surprise you if I reminded you that many mammals copulate mebbe once a year. They do it to ensure the continuation of the species, not because they are bored.

Hello soggycat,
I'll be kind to you seeing that I don't really know you ,don't laugh cos you only have to speak to a friend of mine who gets the worst when he talks about the buddhist concepts. I am interested in buddhism as some of you know in here by now lol.
Anyway to your reply lol, (hope your ready for this one lol)
Look you don't need sex to reproduce nowdays there is such thing as a test tube now lol. ( One down a few to go lol)
If you want to see sex as a drug then so be it but not everyone has the same point of view. If sex was the here all and end all then you you would have a valid point to this area but there is more to life than sex.

I have to dissagree with you on the point of buddhism and taoist view as we are still human and even buddhists have a sex life no matter what they say behind closed doors . Just because your a buddhist doesn't mean you have to close yourself off from the world. I think this is why there are so many misconceptions about the buddhist philosophy, people seem to think that you have to live your life as a monk and have no feeling but this is so untrue and I'm prepared to see what you all have to say on the area.

I wonder how many buddhist husbands and wives would be willing to just have sex once a year like you have mentioned with the mammel story lol. I wonder how long it would take then to tell you to kindly go away lol. I used to be involved in a religious group who tried to impose this on it's members if they were married and they still do. If this was part of the buddhist philosophy then I would be very concerned as it just doesn't sit right with me.

I've no problem with the buddhists on here and I hope to learn from you but some of the stuff what I read and told it just seems wrong to me and it's supposed to be about freedom and not about rules and regulations, please tell me if I'm wrong as I hope I am.
lisa xx

[bambeer]

it's supposed to be about freedom and not about rules and regulations, please tell me if I'm wrong as I hope I am.

Its about waking up .
Rules and regulations are made by people. Things like the precepts are not "rules", they offer a logical way of living to people that have realized what you could call the dharma. To people not yet privy to the dharma, they become rules that they can violate which really is not the case.

-bambeer

[reikislapper]

Its about waking up .
Rules and regulations are made by people. Things like the precepts are not "rules", they offer a logical way of living to people that have realized what you could call the dharma. To people not yet privy to the dharma, they become rules that they can violate which really is not the case.

-bambeer

Hi, bambeer,

You must have known that I'd reply to this one lol.

Right then, your words not mine lol "It's about waking up", who decides this and how?, as it's still the same as rules, it's just a different way of putting it lol.
I still have my doubts about this way of living and how a man can tell you how to live, what gives him the right to do this and does he have the experience to back his claims up as I thought the dharma was single and not married. How can he say what is right or wrong when he's been living a "pure and sheltered life", I don't believe in man worship and never will as I've already been there and worn the tee-shirt as I'd been involved in a cult in the past (don't worry I'm not putting you in the same league as I have respect for the buddhist philosopy). I just have a few concerns about this area and I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing about this philosophy before I decide to follow this way of life. (I do say this in respect of your belief).
lisa xx



I've been reading a few things about the chanting which a friend gave me to read and I'm going to be asking quite a few questions about it when I catch up with him lol.

[bambeer]

It's about waking up", who decides this and how?, as it's still the same as rules, it's just a different way of putting it lol.

You decide it.
When you receive transmission in the soto zen sense its simply one guy telling the next "yep, thats what I got" and it goes back to the buddha telling his first student "yep, you got it". Its one unbroken line.
The thing is, you don't actually need this tranmission if you do "wake up" for lack of a better word, you'll know it. If you have any doubts, then you likely didn't.

I still have my doubts about this way of living and how a man can tell you how to live, what gives him the right to do this and does he have the experience to back his claims up as I thought the dharma was single and not married. How can he say what is right or wrong when he's been living a "pure and sheltered life",

I would have serious doubts as well and I did. For one, its up to you to prove whats true and whats crap in buddhism, you can't be taught. If youy meet a "buddhist teacher" that claims they can bring you enlightenment...turn around and walk away. If you run into some buddhists that want you to conform to a specific belief and/or give you strict rules to live by...again, turn around and walk away.

There is actually a sutra related to this discussion called the "theranamo sutra" or the "elder sutra". This sutra is about the buddha telling a monk that he cannot live in isolation from the world and must be a part of it to understand the dharma.

Regarding buddhists giving up sex, marriage, meat, etc, those are all personal choices. Heck the dalai lama eats meat, my zen teacher/priest is married with children and I have been a practicing buddhist for years and have a wife and small child.

The main thing about buddhism is to doubt it all! Don't believe anyone ! You can't be fooled....just sit in front of a blank wall for twenty, thirty minutes a day and thats all you really need. The suttras, chants, all that jazz are nothing more than tools. Its up to you alone to find the boring and wonderful truth.

cheers,
bambeer

[Strafio]

What Bamber said.

It's not about suppressing yourself, "giving up" attachments and possessions, it's just gradually finding wisdom. And supposedly that brings you round to not really caring about possessions and attachments.

So I'm thinking... :)

[jroe52]

love is key to buddhism, just try to keep it positive:) try not to hurt your loved ones and maybe that will help. if your causing pain to others by abandoning them (for bad reasons), then your breaking a key rule to buddism.

"if you cannot help someone, do little as possible to harm them".

we are a part of the world, if our part is to be in love then play it, but be careful it is a delicate thing to have.

[bdirks]

I follow the 8 precepts.

Detachment should be based on understanding.

Try to understand, the rest will follow.

Dont force yourself to be detached in your deeds, when the citta is still attached. Or else it may backfire on you.

Try to see how metta comes into play with relationships, and where love is purely sensual. Know yourself.

[Infrazael]

You seek Nirvana, correct?

Can you explain how avoiding your "desires" allows you to achieve Nirvana quicker?

[Kwajman]

I really like the precepts of buddhism and all that they can teach us. However, since this thread seems to be headed in the direction of sex and why we need it I'll add my two cents worth.

Do what YOU want to do with your life, not what others want you to do. If your in a relationship that may be very hard. During the initial phases of a relationship, when everythings all lovey dovey and you think you two are the ends of the earth, decisions are made and almost always they are the wrong ones. Don't EVER do what someone else wants you to do unless its in YOUR best interest. Whether its sex or moving to a new town or whatever. You come first in life and not some guy who wants you to sleep with him. People who give into sex are weak willed. Too many people, both men and women have sex simply because someone wants them to. Give up relationships and focus on yourself, its just not worth the trouble it will eventually cause.

[myki]

Hello

I am a practicing Buddhist, as in a try to follow the five precepts, and try to re-evulate my desires in life. I feel I am able to give up many things in my life: alcohol, meat, stealing, lying and so forth. But I have the hardest time with relationships not just w/ significant others but any loved ones. Which leads me to believe why get into a relationship. I feel like I am too attached to my boyfriend and that to lose him would be completely devasting. But then again what is the difference of losing him now or in 50 years when we are married. How can I feel some sort of detatchment with him (so that I do no feel suffering from my desires) and still have a loving relationship?

Does anyone have some perspective on this?

I think you need to delve deeper into the meaning total unattachment. Ithink what Soggycat said was very profound:

In a healthy relationship, both partners should be able to say:
” I don’t really need you to make me happy, but I choose to be with you because I enjoy your company”

Unattachment from desire is one issue, but unattachment from life and love is not healthy.

My 2 cents.

Cheers!