Defense against boxers

[Guitarboy1212]

Just the other day I asked my friend to spar with me. Well, he fights like a boxer so it felt very strange, because the style of fighting is completely different than martial arts. I was wondering if anyone had any good tips on how to fight boxers. How do you break through their style of defense, and what type of defense works well against them. Thanks!

[Mo Lung]

Dictate the range. Boxers train primarily fast feet and very strong hand skills, so don't play their game. Keep your distance, use kicks to drive them back and low kicks attacking parts of the body that they are not used to defending. Attack their arms and grapple the hands if you are fast enough. If you have the skills, take them down.

Never try to outbox a boxer! ;)

[YODA]

Know thine enemy.

because the style of fighting is completely different than martial arts.

Boxing IS Martial Arts

[jonestown9]

Aside from the kicks (mentioned above), try taking your friend to the ground. If your a better grappler then your boxer friend, you'll find that you can control him more easily that way.

-jones

[Jim]

Key words: Don't play their game.

Either (as Mo said) use your ranged weapons to good effect or (my preference) get in closer than they're used to and behind where possible.

[YODA]

..... or if this is a training situation rather than a fight - box with him and learn!

[pgm316]

I was just about to say the same as Yoda! Honest ;)

Learn what you can from the guy! You won't learn much putting him in a arm bar :)

[Sonshu]

Who trains a style that uses fist techniques should be able to Box?

This is the main emphasise on fighting with your fists. The reason why they are so good is there are Limited moves in what they do, however they are excellent at it. Lots of 2 man training (less KATA more sparing - thats another thread so leave it there!)

You MUST learn how to use your footwork, blocks, combination to box with boxers.

Then you take them out of there comfort zone, use legs to do sweeps, low kicks, kick there blocking guard.

I like to box with boxers as I can hold my own and it is a first class work out on my timing, and striking skills. Low kicks are very good as without there suspension (legs) they cant get around.

If a schools students cant box, then unless there one technique at the start of the fight works they are in for a ruff night, even ground fighting is tough as he may have mates.

Boxers and Boxing are both invaluable mediums use em!

SONSHU

[shadow joe]

1. listen to yoda


2. it shouldn't matter what your opponent does. I rarely worry about that. It should only be of importance wether or not your opponent is or isn't in range.


as soon as someone is reachable, start striking.


If you mean your having problems with him not kicking, and using a flurry of 3-5 punches every time he enters your range you can try a couple of effective things. Mostly what has been said just practice with him and learn.


- try and tie him up if you know any kind of grappling. This is mildly effective but if he's a good boxer you'll have trouble getting in without taking some kind of blow.


- even more effective, at least for me in class, is the minute he's in range throw a jab at the chin. This is greatly disruptive to an oncoming fighter if every single time he gets within range he gets a jab to the face. In reality the boxer is trying to do this every clash, open with the jab, follow up.. so knowing that use your tools.



you have the kicking range which they aren't likely to be good at. Use those as well as not fighitng directly on the center line and if you place an attack and follow up every time you are within range you shouldn't have too much trouble holding your own.



good luck,

[Cudgel]

or get a big sword

[Guitarboy1212]

If you mean your having problems with him not kicking, and using a flurry of 3-5 punches every time he enters your range

That's exactly what I mean. As soon as I get into his range, he uses a flurry of 3-5 punches, and I can't hit his chin like you said, because boxers have their hand up covering from their chest to the top of their head.

[Darzeka]

Do something they don't see very often dodge to the side, drop to a knee (very little kicking remember). Don't try to engage him as he comes into your range attack him, don't step into his range.

If you want to attack try using a few, large, fast foot movements and keep going, don't step then stop then attack.

[YODA]

Originally posted by Guitarboy1212


That's exactly what I mean. As soon as I get into his range, he uses a flurry of 3-5 punches, and I can't hit his chin like you said, because boxers have their hand up covering from their chest to the top of their head.


One of the golden rules of boxing (sounds obvious but you'd be surprised how many forget it)..... Punch where his hands are not!

Mix levels - head-head-body ; body;head;body etc .

[Sonshu]

If they cover with their arms they still take the force of the kick and will proberbly end up on there arse.

I agree with most of what Shadow Joe put apart from point 2. That sounds to me like a strong right cross and he is spark out.

I do care about what my opponent is doing as if you don't you will get caught out.

If you dont worry about the jujitsu guy your choked out, if you dont worry about the boxer your KNOCKED OUT!

SONSHU

[shortstick]

like most have said, take advantage of the distance with your long range weapons.
Or.....buy him a sandwich and discuss with him why he feels the need to fight you:D

[YODA]

Originally posted by Sonshu

If you dont worry about the jujitsu guy your choked out, if you dont worry about the boxer your KNOCKED OUT!

SONSHU


That's what I love about Mixed Martial Arts - I get to be chokend out AND knocked out :D

[johndoch]

I would say you should spar with the guy and just use boxing techniques at first. This way your boxing game will improve quicker.

Firstly work on your stance/footwork as I reckon most TMA's fight more side-on than a boxer would. Theres a reason for the boxing stance to be squarer, as it allows you to get your boxing punches off easier and quicker. Think about it, being squarer brings your rear hand up into a more offensive position. Your cross has less ground to cover and your rear hook has much more leverage.

Secondly, work on upper body movement. Learn the slip (esp to the outside), Bob, weave and pull back. Practice these with shadow boxing so that you become crisp and fluid at the same time.

Thirdly, get on the bags/pads and see what punches work for you Train punches individually at first before moving onto combos. learn the basic punches because they tend to be the easiest to throw.

16 Punches you could use are

jab-cross (head and body)
Lead-Rear hook (head and body)
lead-rear uppercut (head and body)
Overhand cross (head and body)
lead-rear shovel.

Now go and spar and if you're gettin beat just kick the sod

[YODA]

Here are a few ideas to get you staretd in improving your boxing game - you can work these on the pads - shadowboxing - then work them into your sparring...

Working Punching to Head & Body
* All drills use the "2 to the head / 1 to the body" pattern

1. Lead hook - rear cross - lead shovel hook
2. Rear cross - lead hook - straight rear to the body
3. Lead uppercut - rear cross - lead shovel hook
4. Jab - lead hook - rear hook to the body
5. Rear cross - lead uppercut - lead shovel hook
6. Jab - rear cross - lead shovel hook
7. Double jab - lead shovel hook
8. Double jab - rear cross to the body
9. Jab - rear hook to the head - lead shovel hook
10. Rear hook to the head - lead hook to the head - rear cross to the body
11. Lead hook to the head - rear uppercut - lead shovel hook
12. Jab - lead uppercut - rear hook to the body
13. Rear cross to the head - lead hook to the head - rear cross to the body

Working Upper Body Mobility in Boxing

1. Lead jab - bob outside with rear shoulder from cross, Lead shovel hook - lead hook to the head - rear cross.
2. Lead jab - rear cross, weave under a lead hook and return cross 3 times.
3. Lead jab - rear cross - lead hook, weave under a rear hook and return lead hook 3 times.
4. Lead jab - rear cross, weave under a lead hook, rear cross - lead hook, weave under a rear hook, lead hook - rear cross.
5. Lead jab, lay back from a lead hook, rear cross, weave under a lead hook, rear cross.
6. Parry a jab, bob lead with rear shoulder from cross, lead hook, weave under a rear hook & throw rear body punch - lead shovel hook - lead hook to the head - rear cross.

[shadow joe]

that's a nice combo sheet Yoda, i think i'll print that off if you don't mind :D

[YODA]

Originally posted by shadow joe
that's a nice combo sheet Yoda, i think i'll print that off if you don't mind :D


Help yourself - that's what it's there. There are many more on my website - I just cut & pasted it from there :D

Yodas Mitt Drill Page (http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/fmitts.htm)

[johndoch]

Nice combos Yoda, especially like the doubling up of shots on the lead hand.

One thing I would say though is that your drills are more for the intermediate. For beginners I would say when doing bag/pad work that they should practise single shots repeatedly to build up the understanding of transferring power in each shot before moving onto combos.

[Sonshu]

Jab cross is the best one for beginers.

But making sure they focus on keeping one hand up to defend with as well as the movement.

SONSHU

[YODA]

Originally posted by Sonshu
Jab cross is the best one for beginers.

But making sure they focus on keeping one hand up to defend with as well as the movement.

SONSHU


Our basic progression for beginners, to get them loading their punches, is....

1. Jab
2. Jab-cross
3. Jab-cross-hook
4. Jab-cross (weave under lead hook) croos-hook-cross
5. Jab-cross-hook (weave under rear hook) hook-cross-hook
6. Jab-cross (weave under lead hook) croos-hook (weave under rear hook) hook-cross-hook

Then we start adding body shots during the weave.

As soon as possible all of the above are done with the pad holder constantly moving around throwing out jabs to the head & body, then feding to mitts for the relevant combo.

[Sonshu]

I like to work on my footwork as much as possible as this is the opener into my strikes and grapples.

The range determins my attacks.

Ideally its more

Very long - weapons and improvid weapons only or run!
Long is more kicking
Medium is hand techniques & kicks
Short - elbow, knee, hand techniques, some kicks, takedowns throws
Point blank - strikes and grapples/throws
Ground - stikes & grapples.

Nice and simple

SONSHU

[anubis]

Everyone has made excellent points and without repeating their wisdom, I just have a few insights.
1) boxers are very limited, you as a martial artist, is not. Use those legs. Hit the back of his knee everytime hes in range, slow him down, cuz without movement he becomes a heavy bag.
2) Keep him at bay, but use your skills of adaptation. Heres what you do..... lay back, watch him, his legs, his movements , where his hands are mostly, what punch he uses most, watch his eyes. Once you tune into his fighting style, own it. use it against him, force him to change and once he changes, he open to your wrath. try it, let me know what you think

[r4bid]

I have a boxer friend who I did some very light sparring (was just for fun with basically no real contact) and I beat him in about twenty seconds. We started off far away and he quickly tried to get into punching range. As soon as he was within my leg range I side stepped to the left and threw a right hook kick at his right knee and pulled on the back of his knee. He wasn't expexting this and fell over pretty quicky. Then I jumped over him and started beating the hell out of his head with kicks and stomps.

Note: he is not a very good boxer

[YODA]

How can you "beat" someone at very light sparring?

Try going at it full contact with 16oz gloves on and see if he does any better.

[anubis]

realize that your sparring to practice your technique in a real situation, not to beat the hell outa him. Beating him doesnt mean that boxers dont make formidable foes, just that your should try that against a better boxer,

[r4bid]

Yoda: I guess the better term to desribe the situation would be we were fooling around, he wanted to see some of my "martial arts junk" in action against his boxing ability. We weren't going to make hard contact so I am not going to try to say that this is representative of reality or anything, it was fake as hell.
Only point is that he didn't expect me to go for his knees so thats what I did.

[YODA]

Hey that's fine r4bid - I understand. In that case don't draw ANY conclusions regarding the effectivenes of you or the ineffectiveness of him from it.

[Sonshu]

Thoes 16 oz gloves start to feel like anvils after time dont they!

Ouch!

SONSHU

[YODA]

Originally posted by Sonshu
Thoes 16 oz gloves start to feel like anvils after time dont they!

Ouch!

SONSHU

Do you mean to the wearer or the reciever - LOL!

I've experienced it both ways around LOL!

[Who am I?]

I agree with shortstick, but if the boxer doesnt agree use three petechaguis and finish of with a toleachagui, you must be very quick, I know because there was this kid at school trains box and he wanted to fight me (he didn´t know that I train Tae Kwon Do) it turns out that he didn´t know sh*t.

[Andy Murray]

Translate those 'Chagui's' please mate?

Not everyone here does TKD believe it or not. :D

[pug32]

I would doubt the ability of that "boxer" if you took him out with three kicks although i would like to know the translation of what they are in English. I would presume it was the element of surprise combined nicely with his over confidence that did most of work.

Most of my background is in kick boxing, minimal boxing with a recent switch to JKD. I have sparred with a few boxers and to generalise they are usually difficult opponents, they are used to being hit, like a ruck and are trained to keep going until the opponent is unconcious. As a kick boxer you can't take the step off the mat if you're getting a pasting option and in the ring a puncher will usually beat a kicker. If your opponent knew what what they were doing they would close down your kicking range and beat you to bits from close quarters.

How you would fight them would have to depend on the surroundings and agreed rules if any, i.e: is it sparring or someone starting a fight with you in the street. If you are in a boxing ring and fighting by their rules its going to hurt unless you can out box them. Like Yoda suggested 16 oz gloves do a fantastic job of pointing out any defensive weakness you didn't know you had :D

Rules / scenearios permitting:

Using JKD destructions against either punch will work and you know a boxer is probably only going to punch, take those two weapons away and job done.

Thai style leg kicks or put the front knee through, they will not be able to defend against either and if they can't stand they can't fight.

Trapping range does work but any errors get punished heavily

Grapple and use knees and elbows they won't be as good at defending against those, boxer do clinch so if your clinch is weak you may get bounced to an exact distance then take a few well placed shots. You also have the job of getting to this range, if you just grab for the clinch without going through the ranges correctly you'll get chinned

Shoot and take them straight to the ground, choke and lock them up as they won't be able to defend against that.

I wouldn't recommend sidestepping and dropping to one knee unless it is followed straight up with a sweep or something. Boxers don't just train linear attacks so if you in range you will get hit, unless i misunderstood the meaning your finish postition is almost identical to a boxer about to recieve the finishing punch

Golden rule: keep you gaurd up, your chin down and your arse off the floor :)

Great forum btw just found it, hope that was useful

[sfjohn]

There is only one thing I can say in terms of defeating a boxer and that is to become a boxer yourself. I didn't become a OK boxer by watching videos or taking other peoples advice. I became an ok boxer by fighting with boxers. I learned the tricks of a boxers trade, and boy did I learn how to take a nice right cross and a good hook. You don't need to ask questions here in the forum, go fight your boxer friends or go to the nearest boxing gym. In time you will learn how to defeat them through fighting with them. You will learn the importance of a stiff jab or a quick (feeler) jab, and where the croos the hook or the uppercut should come in. And you will definately learn the importance of timimg and placement. Once again, the only reason I became somewhat good at boxing is because I fought boxers constantly, I learned what they could do and then I learned how I could best defend against them. I could tell you what works for me against a boxer but that is defeating the purpose, you must learn the same way I did since you are an entirely different person and know what your strengths and weaknesses are.

To tell you the truth, I didn't learn stick fighting from form or repition, I learned the basics in this way, but I truly learned the art of the stick by fighting with it. I didn't learn knife through some ancient manual, I learned it by sparing in safe conditions with knifers. I didn't learn defense against a gun throuh technique sets, I learned the weapon first. I learned it's capabilitie, where it doesn't and it does work. I learned how to stop the machine from working. After learning how to use the gun and attack and fight with it was I cumfortable in learning how to defend myself against it in close quarters situations.

I know I have come a bit off track, but there is a message in this I wish to share with you: Know what you are dealing with before you start thinking of ways to protect yourself against it. In essence, the only reason I feel confident in my ground fighting is because I have sparred witth everone I could on the ground. The only reason I feel comfortanle with my hands is because I have sparred with everone I can who uses hands. The only reason I feel comfortable with using my feet is because of all thos sparring matches with Tae Kwon Do guys. And the only reason I feel confortable with my weapons work is because I will pick up any weapon and fight (sparr) with a person using that weapon or another. I train in only one way, and that is if I lose, I die. Period. I wasn't brought up since I was young to not kill or maim the person who attacks me, I was brought up as a warrior, where every martial situation can possibly be life or death. I train as if the or bag infront of me has posed a threat that needs deadly force on my part.

Oops I'm sorry, I got off track. So let me leave you with one final note: Hope for the best but train for the worst.

[Chank Mo-Kei]

TKD is very good to keep the distance but if the boxer manages to break that distance you are in deep sh*t.

I think, like others said before, ,that you should learn with your friend, Though Muay thai is very good for this situation. even if he breaks the distance, you still have your knees and elbows hehehehe (and your head) :woo:

[Jonny Chee]

You could always bite his ankles?

:eek:

:D

:confused:

[AsSaSiN]

I think grappling would b effective against a boxer, 1v1.

[Andy Pandy]

A: Whats a cross? "1. Lead hook - rear cross - lead shovel hook"
B: Whats a shovel hook?
C: Various other bit's that flew streight over my head:
"bob outside with rear shoulder from cross"
"lay back from a lead hook"
"bob lead with rear shoulder from cross"

I don't tend to learn from descriptions, I learn from demonstration and observation, and from contstant shadow boxing at home, and from sparing.

[Andy Pandy]

Ok, would topics please stop dying whenever I add a comment to them please, it's an anoying curse.

[Topher]

Well boxers tend to defend there head and upper body so i'll use my legs to there lower body. The leg also has a longer reach so stay at a distance where you can attack with your legs but for them to use there natural attack, their fist, they'll have to step in.

[Knight_Errant]

I think grappling would b effective against a boxer, 1v1
Well, yeah, but first you would have to get somewhere near him. Very few boxers have lazy enough hands that you can actually do this, I would think.

[Andy Pandy]

YODA, could you elaborate on

"A: Whats a cross? "1. Lead hook - rear cross - lead shovel hook"
B: Whats a shovel hook?
C: Various other bit's that flew streight over my head:
"bob outside with rear shoulder from cross"
"lay back from a lead hook"
"bob lead with rear shoulder from cross""

please, I would like to know what these things are, I have some guesses but I don't know for sure.

Thanks

[YODA]

Originally posted by Andy Pandy
YODA, could you elaborate on

"A: Whats a cross? "1. Lead hook - rear cross - lead shovel hook"


B: Whats a shovel hook?



A cross is a straight punch with the rear hand

A shovel hook is a combination of uppercut and hook - usually delivered to the body at a 45 degree upward angle.


C: Various other bit's that flew streight over my head:
"bob outside with rear shoulder from cross"

Ok - in matched left leads - he throws a rear cross (straight right) - you turn your shoulders to the right and move (bob) your head forward and to the left - so that his punch slips over your right shoulder. This is a good position in which to fire that lead shovel hook to the ribs :D


"lay back from a lead hook"


Rock your weight back onto your rear foot - bending your rear leg like a spring


"bob lead with rear shoulder from cross""

Bob to your lead side - same as the outside bob above

[BrothersGrim]

what too do is take your gloves off, put some rules in place
like your only aloud to kick and he's only aloud to punch/box
and have a play, gumsheilds in offcourse and you will soon see that each range has its good points and bad points, and the person who is kicking needs too work his fitness lol!

P..............

[BrothersGrim]

by the way how r u Yoda>>>>

[YODA]

Hi errrmm - which Brother Grim is it? :D

Peter?
Leigh?

I'm "as well as can be expected" I.e. p1ssed off but getting there :D

[Andy Pandy]

Thanks yoda !

[BrothersGrim]

yoda its Peter!
:-)

[YODA]

Hi Peter

http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/happy/85565.gif

[oneil357]

Well like the forum said taking advantage of distance is your best bet but here are a few more tips that could help. first boxers tend to "BLOCK" more and blocks are still hits aim at his arms, his biceps are the best target and tire them out. Since they are his primary offense and deffense eliminating or slowing them down opens up a world of oppportunity for the ma, next study his rythm since boxers tend to bob and weave and slip to a prefered side use feints to get him where you want him and open up above all realax .but never try to stand toe to toe since most boxers are skilled in close range fighting this is were he is comftorable take that away make him uncomftorable!! and once again relax and have some confidence in yourself and your ability if nothing else take it as a learning experience and build from there, not everyone you fight will know ma but if you cant responde naturally and comtorable the knowledge you have optained is useless, what style are you practicing? either way goodluck. keep us posted

[BangkokBabay]

I agree with many of the suggestions that are posted. One technique that I have used in the past and it has worked for me in this situation change you stance frequently if you are able to go from righty to south paw and vice versa. This can throw some confusion in on the boxer and then also use your skills kicking, backing him up so he can't get in, blocks, take downs, oh yeah and a good round to the upper outside thigh. That has had me hit the ground so fast in the past - sometimes you never expecting that. Also using the spinning back hit has worked for me in this type of mix matched sparring.

Good Luck on you next sparring with him, I would love to hear what worked for you!

[shootodog]

boxers have incredible hand speed, great foot work, endurance, resistance to pain, can take a punch (or a couple of them) and have great stopping power.

how do you stop them? i return the question to you: what game are we playing? if it's boxing, then try not getting butchered, if it's all strike, then try kicking him. use some elbows and knees to the clinch. head butt if you can. if were talking nhb, then try taking him down and wrestling with him. if you've got no ground game then try keeping him on the kicking range and weaken his knees. if you've got no stand-up game then....what in *&$^%$**&$*& name are you doing on the )(*^($%*& playground.

imho, i benefitted from cross training in boxing. i suggest anyone with the time go to gym and crosstrain.

as i learnt from the great king "da rock": "boxing is a martial art. ask any martail artist who's @ss i've kicked!"

(el rey pugo! nasty! morituri salutamus!)

[ranger]

boxers have incredible hand speed, great foot work, endurance, resistance to pain, can take a punch (or a couple of them) and have great stopping power.


actually, that is the case in almost all martial arts if not not all if you train as hard. at least thats what i think. :)

[shootodog]

actually, that is the case in almost all martial arts if not not all if you train as hard. at least thats what i think. :)

you'd be suprised.

[ranger]

you'd be suprised.

actually i'm not. we have a boxing corps squad while in the academy. we that practices judo and karate do not fear them nor would back down in a match with them which we do very often. (it gets boring living in a regimented life you know) why? becoz we have the same body conditioning as them. how much does a boxer train? every day? provincial meet athletes would not last a second in a match with any of our corps squad why? even though we may have inferior technique compared to them we exhibit superior body conditioning. i'm just saying boxers excell becoz they train hard. if you fear a match with boxers train as hard as they are training, even double it if possible. :)

Good day :)

[shootodog]

:D :D :D as the big nasty always says: "i can do it better because i can take more punishment and out last any of you!!!" :D :D :D

conditioning is key.

[ap Oweyn]

There is only one thing I can say in terms of defeating a boxer and that is to become a boxer yourself.

I think this is a good point. The usual advice is to "not play his game." And it's GOOD advice. But sometimes you don't get to make that call. Frequently actually. So sometimes you do "box a boxer." Whether you like it or no. So you need to understand enough about what they do so that you don't get demolished during the phases that they control and you don't.

Just like kickboxers in the UFC had to learn enough grappling not to get mauled when a grappler got his mitts on them (think Maurice Smith). As one of the first posters said, you're not going to outbox a boxer. But you can learn enough that you stand a chance in those moments when you are actually called upon to fight in his house.

It's like people's objections to groundfighting. "You shouldn't go to the ground in a streetfight anyway." That's not the issue. The issue is that it happens whether it's advisable or not. So you'd better have some recourse.


Stuart B.

[snailfist]

On grappling vs boxing:
Two experiences I had in jujitsu class on fri night:
1: attacking a black belt in a "numbers" training drill:
I feinted an uppercut to the solar plexus- blackbelt starts to X-block down- I roundhouse to the head :D (although he did drop his head, rendering it fairly ineffective- it bounced of the top of his skull which would at best induce a red mist in a real fight)
2: Attacking my 4th dan instructor in the same drill:
simlilar kind of attacking strategy- i'm not quite sure what happened to my attacks, whether dodged or parried, but the end result was that neither landed and i got thrown (don't know the name opf the throw but it resembles a head-on rugby tackle that takes the opponent's legs away) then rolled over my head backwards, which still hurts my neck now :( I would draw from this that:
Don't use X blocks on a boxer- they leave you too prone to the other hand
some punches can leave him a little off balance or in an awkward position- use this to your advantage
Don't attack 4th dans lightly :eek:
The conclusions of a mere yellow belt, having never trained in boxing and attacking superiors, might be partially or entirely erroneous and incur 6 of the best from a green light-sabre :Alien: :p :D

I'd also add more generally that his mobility and tenacity will be his greatest assets. His weaknesses will be that he perhaps has difficulty dealing with techniques that don't feature in the specialised focus of his art. Thus I'd recommend low kicks to the legs or groin - they impair his mobility, utilise your greater range and are difficult to guard against with the hands, particularly using boxer's techniqes. If you get in close (in a real fight btw!), a good hard strike to a location that will take him out even for a second or two- eg a gagging strike to the throat, winding strike, eye poke etc. is essential to give you a respectable window in which to employ your perhaps slower but more perhaps more powerful techniqes (locks throws etc.)
Hope this helps!

[Alex103701]

I had to fight a boxer in karate a couple of weeks ago. It was me, a white belt of all of 6 weeks, against the Welsh champion for his age. I got windeded :D

[Spikedude]

Just the other day I asked my friend to spar with me. Well, he fights like a boxer so it felt very strange, because the style of fighting is completely different than martial arts. I was wondering if anyone had any good tips on how to fight boxers. How do you break through their style of defense, and what type of defense works well against them. Thanks!
a boxer is very fast, very strong with its style, but b/c of their stance compaired to other styles they r more open to attack. just make sure you keep ur distance and kick fast

[Stuart H]

I think the question of the thread is "What do I do if ever a boxer tries to beat me up?", not "How can I prepare myself to fight boxers?" So it's no use saying "Learn to box"

[Jame$]

The best thing to do is just to use the skills YOU have already mastered and are comfortable using in a fast-thinking situation. Try to keep him at a distance using your legs, afterall: your legs are longer than his arms...he won't be able to land many shots if you keep him at your legs control.
Obviously, you can't keep him away at all times and therefore this sparring will prove very useful to learn some close quarter 'box fighting'. I do agree with all the previous posts that have mentioned how much you can learn from this guy.

[speed_dragon]

hit them harder and faster if the left leg is foward expect a dummy jab or rabbit jab then the right cross or overhand if u can jump them b4 then u will be good dont rely on countering boxers punch with fury right leg up expect a jumping right cross depending on the showboating of the fighter if not dont stop moving till u find a weakness or he's gonna corner then its not gonna be pretty and neither will u be after

[Pika]

I agree with many of the suggestions that are posted. One technique that I have used in the past and it has worked for me in this situation change you stance frequently if you are able to go from righty to south paw and vice versa. This can throw some confusion in on the boxer and then also use your skills kicking, backing him up so he can't get in, blocks, take downs, oh yeah and a good round to the upper outside thigh. That has had me hit the ground so fast in the past - sometimes you never expecting that. Also using the spinning back hit has worked for me in this type of mix matched sparring.

Good Luck on you next sparring with him, I would love to hear what worked for you!

Most boxers train to face both south paws and orthodox. I have seen some terrible KO's on TMA's switching stance to confuse a boxer. They seem to forget that they are fighting from an unnatural position themselves.......

[cxw]

I didn't learn defense against a gun throuh technique sets, I learned the weapon first. I learned it's capabilitie, where it doesn't and it does work. I learned how to stop the machine from working. After learning how to use the gun and attack and fight with it was I cumfortable in learning how to defend myself against it in close quarters situations.

Have you ever defended yourself against a gun? How do you stop the machine from working? Whilst the guy has his finger on the trigger - aren't you in extreme danger? How could you ever feel comfortable against a weapon that easily kill you within 1 second?

[alienlovechild]

Mo gave an excellent response ... I particularly agree with attacking his arms [or her, who knows], boxers, in my experience, do not like this at all.

[alienlovechild]

To add: learn some of the pressure points on the arms. Pericardim 6, 3 fingers down in the middle of the wrist, if hit correctly, will completely stuff up any punch ... inside the elbow joint [heart 5] can completely disable the arm, top of the bicep etc. If he can't move his arm, he ain't gunna be able to hit ya.

From this, learn how to combine attacks to the arm with attacks to the body. I do Taiji and Bagua, though lots of arts can do this stuff well ... mantis kung-fu comes immediately to mind, maybe wing-chun.

[nForce]

Not being funny but if you fight a good boxer you will get absolutely malled alienlovedchild, he wont let you hit all these pressure points, before you even realise which one your gonna hit youll be KO'd


This question is what ive been thinking about recently,

I would say boxing is good, but extremely limited and vulnerable, i do thai boxing and ju jitsu (only just started) but i am confident that for a boxer whos been boxing as long as ive been thai and ju jitsu i could easily win, a full force thigh or knee kick will win you the fight instantly, they arent prepared for it and will hurt them loads

Also if they get in close, they have boxing, we learn that in thai boxing, they maybe do it more effectively, but we know how to use elbows and knees, and i wont even start on the clinch.

Boxing is good for learning how to box, get conditioned and develop speed and power, but as an art as soon as you allow kicks knees etc, its vulnerable.

[alienlovechild]

I have played with heaps of boxers. Their weakness is they think they can take a hit, because they are used to being hit with gloves, and they can't. One strike to the throat and they choke just like anyone else. Plus in the gym where I train I can punch harder and faster than any of the boxers, because I punch from my spine, not my shoulder [someone who trains with the boxers, holding pads, told me this.]

[mystererae]

I spar with a boxer friend sometimes... I usually go for low kicks; even at the hips/waist I've had him grab my foot before. I've had good results with a low kick followed up immediately by a strike to the face since he tends to try to swat at my legs because he hasn't learned any defenses.

When he is paying attention to my legs and is frustrated, that's when I close in with my own strikes. I've used Wing Chun's stop kicks when he's trying to get in range to start jabbing/etc at me to keep distance and open up opportunities to close in.

[alienlovechild]

By the way n-force, you completely misunderstand how pressure points work. You don't think about which ones your going to hit ... they attack, and you attack whatever one's they present ... it is always done as an attack against an attack. Pressure point attacks become intuitive ... you don't think. Though of course your 6 months or whatever of kickboxing training makes you an expert ... so I guess I should defer to your superior judgement.

[minimal]

Boxers train punching and jabbing almost exclusively, and should be expected to be better at them than anyone in MA unless they have trained a lot longer. Their footwork is generally good and pressure tested, and they take more headshots than anyone and so are conditioned to fight semi-conscious.

Of all the martial arts I know a tiny bit about, Wing Chun starts with a serious focus on punches and would be a good one to be trained in if going against a boxer. You still need to expect them to be more experienced in your preferential range than you are, however.

WC has it's own way of keeping distance, for example the kick to the approaching knee (longest wepon to nearest target) and until the boxer gets past the range of that strike they can't punch you.

Boxers aren't used to being pushed off centerline. They aren't used to being kicked, stuck to, jointlocked, or grappled.

I would avoid attacking and hope that whatever attack the boxer initiates creates a vulnerability you can exploit.

Doesn't sound easy though.

[aikiMac]

I would avoid attacking and hope that whatever attack the boxer initiates creates a vulnerability you can exploit.
That's pretty much my thought too, with the qualification that "I would avoid attacking by *punching*". I'm probably a better grappler than a boxer, but a boxer is probably a better puncher than I am.

[tekkengod]

take advantage of your grappling skills {if you have any} or just go straight to the clinch. mystererae is right, i've know a few boxers who thought they could take a hit better than me. they found out the hard way that a punch to the jaw with a glove is not the same as a bare knee to the face.

[Keysi_chick]

Well i have to say...if i was up against a boxer id try and take him/her to the ground cos most dont know what to do as soon as they hit the floor....however in saying that i know that some boxers are taking up MMA as well as boxing in case that happens...so its really a situation that i wouldnt know how to deal with unless put in that position. But in saying that...my main aim would be : get them to ground and take it from there. :)

[tel]

in kali they have some great limb destructions,eg arm over face with elbow pointing out,wing chun has some great technqiues to pick up shorts early.also kicking when they punch,and grappling all good if u can get the timing.just try not to get hit. or at least avoid the stongest shots

[ShihanBKS]

You don't try to out box a boxer, and you don't try to out wrestle a wrestler---you're more likely to lose. In other words, don't fight their fight. You fight how you are trained to fight. If they want to challenge you, you give them a challenge, even if it is play (use control).

[TheCount]

How do you break through a boxers style...? Kick him, take him to the ground or spike punches to the extent they can no longer feel their arms

[Hades]

just a few remarks here... why do some people consider boxing as not being a MA? and where did this thing come from boxers are extremely vulnerable for kicks?

i mean... when you can block a punch, you can also block a kick quiet effectively... a good boxers won't be taken down quick, because all the emphasis is on punching with you're fists, and keeping your feet on the ground in order to maintain balance and power up those punches... therefore a boxer develops quiet some force in it's legs... therefore have a strong upperbody... so grappling won't be that easy... aiming for the biceps or the arms... doesn't sound very effective to me... boxers get a lot of punches landed on their arms... it's just itching... although there is no kicking in boxing... and the legs aren't targets for attacks, strong legs can take a bunch...
anyhow... i would advice you to keep him at a comfortable kicking distance... and when he storms at you, dodge, and lands those knees on him, and elbows to the side of the head...

or buy a knive or brassknuckle
:D

[ap Oweyn]

You don't try to out box a boxer, and you don't try to out wrestle a wrestler---you're more likely to lose. In other words, don't fight their fight. You fight how you are trained to fight. If they want to challenge you, you give them a challenge, even if it is play (use control).

To a degree, I agree with that. Play to your strenghts. But there's another sense in which I have to disagree with the conventional wisdom. "Don't box a boxer" assumes that you'll be making that decision all the time. And it's the nature of the fight that the other guy will be trying to make that same decision and force you to conform to his strengths. Sometimes, he's going to come out on top of that exchange and you're going to have to work on his terms.

At that time, it's really going to be to your benefit to know enough boxing (or something comparable in terms of range, etc.) not to get killed in that range. Just like a lot of strikers in MMA didn't become grappling experts. They did learn enough grappling not to get mauled on the ground though.


Stuart

[Master J]

If I was fighting a boxer, I would fight in a way he is not used to. He trains to box, so under no circumstances am I gona try to out box him. I'd kick low to the legs where he isn't used to defending, and probably wouldn't be expecting to get attacked from. I'd keep a good distance from him when I could, maily focusing on kicks, but of course putting my WingTsun punching to use!

[ap Oweyn]

Question is how would you stop him from moving past your kicks? And do you think your wing chun experience is strong enough to contend with a decent boxer at punching range?

I'm not saying you're not. I'm just pointing out an important part of the equation. That you don't get to call all the shots.

[diablo despacio]

Grapple

Close his space down, and tie him up. A rapid forward thrust to get him on to his back foot, clinch and knee, bite, headbutt..................................

[ap Oweyn]

Grapple

Close his space down, and tie him up. A rapid forward thrust to get him on to his back foot, clinch and knee, bite, headbutt..................................

I have a lot more faith in that idea than I do in keeping him away with kicks. In my experience, sparring tends to go to whatever the closest range is allowed by the ruleset. If punching is allowed, it's going to punching range. If clinching is allowed, it's going there. And if grappling is allowed, it's going there.

I've never seen anyone, in 20 years, who was capable of actually keeping someone at long range who wanted to be at a closer range.


Stuart

[alienlovechild]

just to add ... attacking the arms wont drop the person, it is a way to get in to attack the body ... basically, attacking the arms breaks boxing timing, which is the timing that the sport of boxing, in the ring with gloves on, necessitates.

[aikiMac]

I've never seen anyone, in 20 years, who was capable of actually keeping someone at long range who wanted to be at a closer range.

I don't have 20 years under my belt yet, but, yes, that's my experience too, with one caveat: the longer-range guy has at most 3 shots to drop the closer-range guy. I'll give him at most three shots. If the closer-range guy isn't stopped, then for certain the fight will enter the closer range.

That's my experience, anyway. We must've been watching the same people. ;)

[tekkengod]

I have a lot more faith in that idea than I do in keeping him away with kicks. In my experience, sparring tends to go to whatever the closest range is allowed by the ruleset. If punching is allowed, it's going to punching range. If clinching is allowed, it's going there. And if grappling is allowed, it's going there.

I've never seen anyone, in 20 years, who was capable of actually keeping someone at long range who wanted to be at a closer range.


Stuart

I agree, thats the first thing i always do when i spar my boxing buddies. clinch, grapple = game over. closing range is ALOT easier than most TKD and HKD people will admit.

[scottsummers]

either use kicks or rush in and trap the arms to the body and go for the takedown. Basically if you smother them while they are pulling back their punches or take them down they will be in trouble at that point......

[jroe52]

pak sao, wu sao and hung sao. i'd probably block, then palm strike to his head. after, back up, and kick his knee out.

however, i like the peoples ideas, to block, move around them and attack from the sides.

the way my sifu often trains us in wing chun is to block with the ( Bui-Sau?), which is almost like a "hail hitler" type block... if the opponent jabs to face, bui-sao, side step, attack from side.

if they do hook, turn your stance, tan sao(block) while with other hand (palm strike to floating rib). i like wing chun for teaching how to use both hands at the same time on offense and defense.

lastly, if they were fast strikes i'd pak sao, step back and either sidestop or lap sao/grapple them.

in theory! hahah

one thing cool, would be while they are blocking, to move in, grab or push their hands while tripping them with your ankle behind their heavy foot. what i mean is, to simply cut their balance off and knock them over lol. it does work, but i doubt against boxxers. then again if they are not use to kicks they might fall for it. a kickboxxer/muaythai would probably kick ass at that point with knees