LIL Dragons/Tiny Tigers (teaching kids) [Archive]

Chazz

18-Jan-2005, 01:41 AM

Heheh.. go back to the old thread you just started.

Those Little Dragon and Black Belt Clubs have McDojang written all over them in my opinion...

Yes i saw that. But i also think that a program for 3-6 year olds is good. Ive worked with a lot and they need something to help get them started. They cant just get thrown in with everyone else. They get the same amount of classes just shorter. They get to work on things that they need to help them jump into a reg class such as Courtesy, Respect, balance, focus, coordination, as well as the simple kicks and punches. When the parents thing they are ready they move to the real class.

KickChick

18-Jan-2005, 02:15 AM

We have a Little Dragons program at our school.
Classes run for 45 minutes (remember those limited attention spans!).... our youngest student is usually 5 years old .... rarely younger than that.
NAPMA (http://www.napma.com/page.cfm/12,0,0,0,0,98,0,0.html)
has some Little Dragon Info & merchandise available.

I used to have an awesome web site that detailed how to successfully teach little dragons.... but unfortunately that bookmark is now a dead link. I'll have to see if I printed that out and placed it somewhere.

More tips here ... games & drills
Tips for 3,4, & 5 year olds (http://www.4kicks.com/?tabid=28&view=listing&Cat=3,%204,%205%20Year%20Olds&CatId=19)

Good luck Chazz.... quite the undertaking! I hope you have some help! Well you got us too ;)

Chazz

18-Jan-2005, 02:26 AM

ITS KICKCHICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol missed ya girl

Thanks so much. I have my 17 year old green belt brother helping me. Thats it :confused: If you find that info from that link PLEASE sent it to me. Ide love to read it to get ideas. Thanks for the games as well. I knew you would have my back. I was just waiting for you :D

Kwajman

18-Jan-2005, 02:42 AM

Good to see you again Chazz!

KickChick

18-Jan-2005, 03:01 AM

Missed you too Chazz!

Here is the description taken from our web site that we use on our Little Dragon Enrollment Info forms

"FUN EXERCISE - Our Little Dragon classes are full of the activities kids love most; running, jumping, kicking, punching and tons of high energy drills that keep kids interested, excited, and motivated.

DEVELOPMENTS - Our goal is to have your child acquire basic Tae Kwon Do skills at a pace that he/she can enjoy and learn from. The Little Dragon will improve their listening skills, learn left from right, improve balance and coordination, and sharpen fine motor skills.

ATTENTION SPAN - Our class curriculum is taught in stations. By this method of teaching, the Little Dragon's attention span is improved by moving to a new station every 5 minutes or so. The Little Dragons class always has 3 instructors for an effective student to teacher ratio.

CONSISTENCY - Little Dragons train in two, *thirty minute classes each week. Experts agree that this consistent repetetive routine is perfect for children ages four through six."

*correction --not 45 minutes like I said in earlier post

The link is unavailable. The site was Downey's Taekwon-do Centers (Newfoundland Canada) He is mentioned in this article.Little Dragons get their Kicks (http://www.taekwondo.edu.sg/pcf124a/Eyeball%20News%20Story%20Page.htm)

Yudanja

18-Jan-2005, 03:06 AM

I dont think I am going to accept students who are under 10 years of age..LOL.

Seems like TKD classes have turned into day cares....but just my opinion.

Sorry.. this is just a really sticky topic with me..dont mean anything negative about the program if it works for some.. i just dont think it has a place in a serious martial-arts environment...

NaughtyKnight

18-Jan-2005, 03:18 AM

Chazz

18-Jan-2005, 04:12 AM

Thanks Deb
your links always help a lot. I just hope i can get a program together before the school opens

Kwan Jang

18-Jan-2005, 06:23 AM

There is a three video series put out by Century Martial Arts supplies that completely outlines this program. It's done by my instructor, Ernie Reyes, Sr. and is age appropriate and pretty much turn key. This program should not be considered as part of your regular program, but basically like pre-school. In KJN Ernie's main location in Santa Clara, he currently has 228 children in this program and his retention is remarkable. He had only two kids quit in over a year. The value to the kids and their parents is great as they are developing life skills and are getting a foundation for developing strong martial skills as well.

You basically chunk down your first three belt levels down to ten levels for 4-5 yr. olds and five levels for 6-7 yr. olds. You take in consideration what the needs and abilities of a child that age are and then you serve them accordingly. Also, since they are a seperate program within your school (the way a cardio kickbox, ect. is), it keeps you from any temptation at watering down your regular program to try to meet the needs of these kids.

Chazz, disregard the naysayers who are putting this down.(Without trying to be overly abusive or offensive, I find it amazing that people who have come up under what is by definition a "children's art" that is highly critcized by many in the arts as the definition of "McDojo", throw that term out there so much regarding others). Our regular program is a MMA cirriculum including MT, BJJ, Submission Grappling, as well as TMA's like TKD, Escrima, and Kenpo. It's hardcore enough to have guys like Frank Shamrock to train under KJN Ernie 2-3 times per week for the last (roughly) seven years. The kids who came up under the developmental stages of this program are really awesome, it's going to be interesting to see what levels this new crop of kids will reach as they mature.

Yudanja

18-Jan-2005, 06:47 AM

Chazz, disregard the naysayers who are putting this down.(Without trying to be overly abusive or offensive, I find it amazing that people who have come up under what is by definition a "children's art" that is highly critcized by many in the arts as the definition of "McDojo", throw that term out there so much regarding others). Our regular program is a MMA cirriculum including MT, BJJ, Submission Grappling, as well as TMA's like TKD, Escrima, and Kenpo. It's hardcore enough to have guys like Frank Shamrock to train under KJN Ernie 2-3 times per week for the last (roughly) seven years. The kids who came up under the developmental stages of this program are really awesome, it's going to be interesting to see what levels this new crop of kids will reach as they mature.
Not a naysayer.. I just think if you want to run a daycare service and cater specifically to children then you should have to be liscensed just like a day care service and have AMPLE staff to run such a program.

I however want to teach martial-arts. I've been to many McDojo's and McDojang's and most have had a program like this in place.... I guess i'm just old fashioned when it comes to martial-arts training and was lucky to be brought up in a "traditional if you will" type of Taekwon-Do atmosphere.

Gizmo

18-Jan-2005, 06:53 AM

I've been teaching kids for several years now and have 2 separate kids groups. Their classes are 1 hour long, twice a week. We use the same belt system as for adults, but the requirements are simplified up to 5th Kup. Testings are held twice a year. Starting from 4th Kup, requirements are the same as for adults, excluding breaking and full-contact sparring.

We have been quite successful with our kids program. Last summer I took a group of them to our summer training camp. 10 days of hard work alongside teenagers and adults. The kids were the most disciplined group in the camp and came home happy.

On our website (http://www.tae-kwon-do.pl) you may find some pictures and videoclips with our students.

Regards

Gizmo

Chazz

18-Jan-2005, 04:26 PM

There is a three video series put out by Century Martial Arts supplies that completely outlines this program. It's done by my instructor, Ernie Reyes, Sr. and is age appropriate and pretty much turn key. This program should not be considered as part of your regular program, but basically like pre-school. In KJN Ernie's main location in Santa Clara, he currently has 228 children in this program and his retention is remarkable. He had only two kids quit in over a year. The value to the kids and their parents is great as they are developing life skills and are getting a foundation for developing strong martial skills as well.

You basically chunk down your first three belt levels down to ten levels for 4-5 yr. olds and five levels for 6-7 yr. olds. You take in consideration what the needs and abilities of a child that age are and then you serve them accordingly. Also, since they are a seperate program within your school (the way a cardio kickbox, ect. is), it keeps you from any temptation at watering down your regular program to try to meet the needs of these kids.

Thanks for the info. If you find or get any more info about how to run a class let me know. anything can help!!

I've been teaching kids for several years now and have 2 separate kids groups. Their classes are 1 hour long, twice a week. We use the same belt system as for adults, but the requirements are simplified up to 5th Kup. Testings are held twice a year. Starting from 4th Kup, requirements are the same as for adults, excluding breaking and full-contact sparring.

We have been quite successful with our kids program. Last summer I took a group of them to our summer training camp. 10 days of hard work alongside teenagers and adults. The kids were the most disciplined group in the camp and came home happy.

On our website you may find some pictures and videoclips with our students.

Hey Giz thanks. I will check out your site. Right now im just looking for what to do aboutthe lil dragons belt promotion, time tables of when they test and how long they stay in the program, What rank do they start in reg classes when they get out of lil dragons, etc (im sure i will have more questions sometime soon LOL) But i will check out your site. Thanks for the help and again ANY info will help and is welcomed

Chazz

18-Mar-2005, 06:13 AM

Well im going to start getting a few little one in soon or at least thats what im told. Is there any instructors or Asst that have a real good lil dragons program or tiny tigers, or just lil kids (4-7) year old program that they wouldnt mind talking over with me either through messenger, email, PM or anything. I have ideas but anything will help and anything would be great.

wynnema

18-Mar-2005, 08:59 AM

Not a naysayer.. I just think if you want to run a daycare service and cater specifically to children then you should have to be liscensed just like a day care service and have AMPLE staff to run such a program.

I however want to teach martial-arts. I've been to many McDojo's and McDojang's and most have had a program like this in place.... I guess i'm just old fashioned when it comes to martial-arts training and was lucky to be brought up in a "traditional if you will" type of Taekwon-Do atmosphere.

I agree entirely Steve, having taught kids (under 10) for a few months I told my instructor I was'nt prepared to do it anymore. We had to get checked out by the police (mandatory in the UK when you are invlolved in teaching children). In the end its like running a playschool.

Not the reason I started TKD.

Its very difficult to find a serious MA club anymore, at least where I live. The only one I considered moving to was Tang Soo Do. It was serious, but the instrcutor was verging on psychotic. Often would walk around with a large stick, sweeping people if there stances were wrong.

Chazz

18-Mar-2005, 03:15 PM

I agree entirely Steve, having taught kids (under 10) for a few months I told my instructor I was'nt prepared to do it anymore. We had to get checked out by the police (mandatory in the UK when you are invlolved in teaching children). In the end its like running a playschool.

Not the reason I started TKD.

Its very difficult to find a serious MA club anymore, at least where I live. The only one I considered moving to was Tang Soo Do. It was serious, but the instrcutor was verging on psychotic. Often would walk around with a large stick, sweeping people if there stances were wrong.

Personally i think we need to invest in our future. This is why i agreed to set up these programs at my school. I think that if parents feel that they want their kid to be involved in the MA at an early age this is the best way to do so. Ages 4-7 kids cant jump right into a regular class, plus they need more attention. So why not give it to them. Give them a class that teaches small parts of the MA (Blocks, kicks, punches) and then add things in that would help them grow. Add dicipline, saying yes sir no sir, raising hand when needing to talk. asking permissing to do somethign. Teaching about strangers, about fitness, younger ones help them with balance, coordination, and even more basic things. A lot of parents dont have much time with thier kids and we all know how much school ARE NOT teaching them. Martial arts has been proven to help make kids and teens better people and better in life so why not help them start early. Give them an realy love for the martial arts and who knows, you may have they new owner of your schoo when you retire. Just my thoughts

But i still would like to find some people willing to help me set up a killer program but it looks like there are more people willing to talk against it than there are willing to help.

Sgt_Major

18-Mar-2005, 03:34 PM

I would help ya if I could mate. I think your doing a great thing. :D

Keep on keepin on :D

http://www.cleverlittlemonkeys.com/index2.html

Chazz

18-Mar-2005, 06:06 PM

thanks for the link. Im glad there is someone who sees my side of it LOL :-P

Preta

18-Mar-2005, 07:18 PM

Not a naysayer.. I just think if you want to run a daycare service and cater specifically to children then you should have to be liscensed just like a day care service and have AMPLE staff to run such a program.

If you run it as a daycare, that is all it will be. If you are there to teach children discipline, more than not, they will learn. Children also tend to pick up a lot faster. This was more than apparent in my limited teaching experience. You can also apply simply common sense: the longer you train, the better you will be.

I however want to teach martial-arts. I've been to many McDojo's and McDojang's and most have had a program like this in place.... I guess i'm just old fashioned when it comes to martial-arts training and was lucky to be brought up in a "traditional if you will" type of Taekwon-Do atmosphere.

This makes no sense. If you'd care to take a look back into history, you'll see warriors of every race training from a very early age. That was their means of survival, so it became their life. If you were truly "traditional", you would have your child training from the time they could walk.

...not to flame, but that was just a blatantly ignorant and outright discriminatory post.

KickChick

18-Mar-2005, 07:30 PM

But i still would like to find some people willing to help me set up a killer program but it looks like there are more people willing to talk against it than there are willing to help.

More than willing here Chazz ... (and you know that! :) ) I believe wholeheartily in the program as all 3 of my children went thru it and one made it through to earning their black belt. (.... that just happened to be my daughter who traded in her ballet & tap shoes to learn to kick & punch like mommy and big brother)

As Preta posted, as long as it is not run like a daycare.... and that is not thru the eyes of the instructor but the parents. Parents have to know that their kids are not going to be babysat plain and simple.

I wish you success in developing your Lil Dragons program Chazz. Might I suggest looking into Century's Lil Dragon's program (http://www.centuryfitness.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10051&storeId=10051&categoryId=13704&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=13501)

Brad Ellin

18-Mar-2005, 07:46 PM

Good luck on this Chazz. I it's quite rewarding and satisfying to watch kids grow up in this type of enviroment. We have 12 kids ranging from 6 to 16, 3 just got placed in the adult class. I love teaching kids, for the most part they have more fun than the adults which makes them learn faster.

To those "naysayers", today's kids are tomorrow's "serious" martial artists. Ru

kchenault

18-Mar-2005, 08:16 PM

Chazz, while I generally do not like these programs, not because they are not a good thing, but because of the kids attitudes and that of the parents, here is a suggestion. Make sure that parents understand up front what is expected of them and their children. Let them know that discipline is required and expected. Todays generation of parents tend to let their children run the home and they in turn want to run everything else in their lives. I hope and pray your program does well and you produce many great martial artists. Pilsung!

rainbows

18-Mar-2005, 11:59 PM

I would help ya if I could mate. I think your doing a great thing. :D

Keep on keepin on :D

http://www.cleverlittlemonkeys.com/index2.html
I actually know the coach of the Clever Little Monkeys program, I used to train kenpo with him when he was about 14... Nice guy. Keeps trying to get me to compete MMA and join his BJJ club.

My current TKD club is adults-only, as it's a college club (youngest members would be 17/18), but back when I did kenpo, I was an instructor in the kids club for 2 years. Lets just say it's an experience trying to teach 5 year olds. :bang: I'd be inclined not to take students younger than 8 or 9 years old, I just think that the vast majority of younger kids aren't ready to be learning martial arts, and don't really appreciate what they're learning.

Chazz

19-Mar-2005, 01:35 AM

More than willing here Chazz ... (and you know that! :) ) I believe wholeheartily in the program as all 3 of my children went thru it and one made it through to earning their black belt. (.... that just happened to be my daughter who traded in her ballet & tap shoes to learn to kick & punch like mommy and big brother)

As Preta posted, as long as it is not run like a daycare.... and that is not thru the eyes of the instructor but the parents. Parents have to know that their kids are not going to be babysat plain and simple.

I wish you success in developing your Lil Dragons program Chazz. Might I suggest looking into Century's Lil Dragon's program (http://www.centuryfitness.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=10051&storeId=10051&categoryId=13704&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=13501)

KC

I would love to talk to you (email, IM, or PM on here) about putting together a good program for 4-7 year old. Im open to anything since i really dont have anything in place or set in stone. So ANY help would be great.

I did check out Century's info but they want so much for their programs and tapes that i cant afford it. I cant even pay rent now so that would have to wait LOL.

Yang, Dae-han

19-Mar-2005, 03:08 AM

To those "naysayers", today's kids are tomorrow's "serious" martial artists. Ru

I agree. Unfortunately, in any field of instruction, all too often the instructor tends to prefer students that are like-minded. I also see instructors trying to get their students to go above and beyond...not for the positive reasons this would produce, but so that they may live out their dreams vicariously.

As for teaching kiddies...they're loads of fun, and quite adept. Again, as with anything, you must have the ability to handle kids. Like those that teach elementary...you've gotta love it.

Yes, unfortunately many dual-income families/single parents have no time to be families, and therefore tend to rely on others (daycare) to raise their children. This, I've seen, creates the boom of daycare martial art schools.

As with anything, your programme will only be as much as you (are able to) put in.

As for my opinion on the programme you ask of, sorry...I've no knowledge of it, so I won't talk of something I know nothing of. Sorry.

I always proclaim that you need sounding boards. See if you can meet some elementary phys. ed. instructors and find out their curriculum (which is usually based on educational/empirical research/studies). From their you may be able to adapt that type of curriculum to your own style.

It'd save you bundles, I'd wager.

sorry, but I've errands to accomplish. Teaching children correctly (attending to all of the important facets of a budding mind/body) is not easy, so please take this seriously. What you do may very well shape them...for better or worse.

Cheers,

DH

Chazz

19-Mar-2005, 03:19 AM

DH

Thanks for the post. I love to teach kids. I also think that im real good with them. I always have been. I see all the time that parents cant and or dont spend a lot of time with their kids and then i see the kids not learning the dicipline and respect that kids 20 years ago learned. Kids today grow up doing just about anything that they want, talking any way they want, dressing any way they want, never hearing sir or ma'am. So coming up with a great program for kids is something i want to do. I want to see the respest of the past come back to the kids of today.

NaughtyKnight

19-Mar-2005, 04:03 AM

I think teaching kids martial arts will make them better people when they get older. If I took ma training when I was younger I would of been a lot healthier and better behaved now :Angel:

Kwan Jang

19-Mar-2005, 04:43 AM

There is a lot of research out there that shows that some of the greatest learning and development of who a child is to become as a person happens within this age group. If an instructor truly wants to make a significant difference in a child's life and development, this is a prime time to make this happen. If we are really about teaching lifeskills, this is a time that you can make the most positive impact.

There are schools that don't do it well and there are ones that do sell out their integrity to try to be a daycare. That is NOT what a quality Little Dragons program is about. It is a well planned program to give quality lifeskills and start kids toward a life time of the benefits in the martial arts. It takes a well trained and very special kind of person to be an instructor for this age group and it's not for everyone. (My wife will only teach adults on a regular basis for example, and will only rarely sub for teens and older kids. She would rather not touch this group). I find this age group both a challenge and quite rewarding.

Chazz, the 3 part tape series from Century is basically turn key, IMO you can't afford NOT to get it. If you would like, you would be welcome to make the drive and come and watch some of our classes with this age group and get some ideas. If you are interested, PM me and I'll be glad to help in any way I can.

Chazz

19-Mar-2005, 06:34 PM

Chazz, the 3 part tape series from Century is basically turn key, IMO you can't afford NOT to get it. If you would like, you would be welcome to make the drive and come and watch some of our classes with this age group and get some ideas. If you are interested, PM me and I'll be glad to help in any way I can.

Yeah i know it would be good to get it but right now i cant. Im not even making enough to pay for rent so i have to deal with that first.

I would love to come down and watch your classes or even talk to you and get some ideas. Like i said, im open to anything that would make a great program for them.

Yudanja

19-Mar-2005, 06:47 PM

...not to flame, but that was just a blatantly ignorant and outright discriminatory post.

Not at all. Just my opinion based on 22 years of experience.

I've seen way too many parents drop their kids off at martial-arts studios just so they can run out and do errands.

The kids dont want to be there most of the time.

So i your "opinion" that my post was blatant and outright discriminitory is ludicrous... :)

neryo_tkd

19-Mar-2005, 11:34 PM

I've seen way too many parents drop their kids off at martial-arts studios just so they can run out and do errands.

I've seen it happen in my club. There was this little 6-year-old boy whose behaviour was really bad. I was shocked when I heard all that swearing coming out of his mouth and when I saw how badly he treated other kids, and he was only 6 year old. I talked to his parents and they told me that they love bringing their little son to my club twice a week because that's the time when they can take a rest from him!!!

Chazz,
do you at least know what you want to accomplish in the end? I mean the purpose of the program, i.e. your school. Do you plan on taking your kids to competitions?

Yang, Dae-han

20-Mar-2005, 12:00 AM

I've seen it happen in my club. There was this little 6-year-old boy whose behaviour was really bad. I was shocked when I heard all that swearing coming out of his mouth and when I saw how badly he treated other kids, and he was only 6 year old. I talked to his parents and they told me that they love bringing their little son to my club twice a week because that's the time when they can take a rest from him!!!

Chazz,
do you at least know what you want to accomplish in the end? I mean the purpose of the program, i.e. your school. Do you plan on taking your kids to competitions?

Time to ring Dr. Phil....

Cheers,

DH

KickChick

20-Mar-2005, 01:53 AM

Not at all. Just my opinion based on 22 years of experience.

I've seen way too many parents drop their kids off at martial-arts studios just so they can run out and do errands.

The kids dont want to be there most of the time.

So i your "opinion" that my post was blatant and outright discriminitory is ludicrous... :)

That should never go "unnoticed" by an instructor. At our school it is imperative that parents come in when they bring their children and often stay in the viewing area to observe their children. I must say, we have a very supportive group of parents and probably due to the fact that the owner/master of the school takes a valued interest in every single one of the students and keeps the line of communication open with every one of the parents.

Often times what he has to say to a few of them (the parents) is a bit "in-your-face" but he pulls no punches and feels that if he doesn't get their cooperation with the instruction of their children the child is not going to do as well and they are just wasting their money.

I've seen way too many parents drop their kids off at martial-arts studios just so they can run out and do errands.
The kids dont want to be there most of the time.

IMO ... a poorly run "martial art studio".

NaughtyKnight

20-Mar-2005, 02:13 AM

If a kid is mucking up all the time, discipline him badly. It will build character and make him a better person.

KickChick

20-Mar-2005, 02:15 AM

If a kid is mucking up all the time, discipline him badly. It will build character and make him a better person.

we're talking "Lil Dragons" here knightcommander :rolleyes: .... disciplining a 4,5, or 6 year old "badly" as you say is the one thing you DO NOT do in a Lil Dragons program.

NaughtyKnight

20-Mar-2005, 02:27 AM

:D Im a bad boy. I used to be a very naughty lil dragon (if I did ma), If a master made me into a good boy, I would of been a darling by now.

blessed_samurai

20-Mar-2005, 02:57 AM

Chazz, I'm getting in this kinda late as I just saw the thread. I work (as an instructor) with a program called Safe Kids. We're a nonprofit organization that is geared towards children and adolescents; our students range from 5-16. We get a lot of kids whose parents can't afford the MA school. Our classes are $5 dollars each and last 55 minutes long. We, however, have never turned down a child because they cannot pay. So, we get every type of situation relating to family structure you can imagine-single parent families, abused children, molested children, traditional family structure and everything in between.

Our premise is teaching kids about safety awareness and to protect themselves from bullies and would-be-abductors. We always have a discussion at the end of class whether it be about self-respect, knowing your phone number/address, fire safety, etc.

We have a similar set-up to a MA school with a ranking system as they progress through self-defense skills and maturity. As far as self-defense goes, we cover blocking, striking, kicking, moving off line, level changing, falling, rolling, sweeping, ground fighting, etc. We have the program divided into sessions with a test at the end of the session which runs about 16 weeks in length.

I've been with the program going on three years now and it's been a very rewarding experience. I've seen kids come in that were basically a shell and walk out with their head high with new found self-respect. I've seen kids that were picked on everyday and hated going to school walk away no longer picked on loving school.

So, I guess I'm saying I love this program and these types of programs that do benefit the children. Good luck in your endevors and let me know if I can be of help. :)

LiaoRouxin

20-Mar-2005, 05:04 AM

I wish you the best of luck with this. In my experience teaching young children is very easy and very hard at the same time.

It's easy once you have their imagination and attention.

It's hell when you don't.

I found the best way I could do that was find out what the students liked to do. For the particular group I had, they all liked to draw. So I'd teach them a new kick and then say "hey kids, why don't you help Sifu Rose draw your brand new kick. Then you can each make one and bring it home to show your parents."

This would usually get them revved to learn and it was really fun for me too.

neryo_tkd

20-Mar-2005, 07:25 AM

IMO ... a poorly run "martial art studio".

then again, on the other side, parents don't have to stay at the training session, so why not take the kids where they have to go and do something else while at it? it doesn't have to be a poorly run ''martial arts studio''.

it all depends. for exmple my cousin has 3 children to take care. 2 train at my club, she has to take the 3rd somewhere else, she has to take care of her sick mother, her house and so many other things. she doesn't have time to sit in my club during the training session. she knows that they are safe at my club, that i won't teach them anything they are not supposed to learn, and it is perfectly fine that she drops them off and comes to pick them up.

KickChick

20-Mar-2005, 12:29 PM

You failed to quote what I said prior to that.....
The kids dont want to be there most of the time.
....

Bear in mind -- we are talking "LIL DRAGONS" (4,5,6 year old little impressionable minds)
Sure, I understand the errands bit... but come into the school with your little one, greet your child's instructor and then come in to pick them up and show the instructor, and most importantly YOUR CHILD that you have a valued interest in their ma training more so then having that hour to go do your errands.....

..... heck, I'm a parent and went through all this with my children at the start of their martial arts training. :D ;) :Angel:

Sgt_Major

20-Mar-2005, 03:58 PM

I'll be putting my wee 'un into something like this..... but she only 3. I'd like to wait til she starts School, and with her birthday falling in July, she'll be 5 before she starts.

I think its a great idea for supplementing the teaching you do as parents, and it also keeps the kids active instead of playing computer games or watching tv all the time, gettin fat and lazy ....

If more kids partook in activities we'd have less of an obesity problem in the UK

NaughtyKnight

21-Mar-2005, 04:04 AM

Mate just think, if you put her in now, she will be a blackbelt before she finishes primary school.

If I could go back in time, I would of told my parents to put me in ma as soon as I could walk.

Gould

21-Mar-2005, 06:23 PM

Hi Chazz,

I wish you the best for your plans for teaching 4-7 yr olds, can be very rewarding to see the improvement of all the kids at that age.

Teaching kids(4-10) isn't for everyone but from my experience you get a better response than from most adults if taught in the right way.

Check out this link which may help with tips.

http://www.littleninjas.co.uk

Good Luck

Chazz

21-Mar-2005, 11:23 PM

Thanks to all of you that support this program. This is what im looking for. If any of you would like to help supply me with ideas, plan, games, or techniques please do. Even email me or PM me. We can talk and hopefully i can come up with something great for them. This is where im at as of now: NOT FAR!

1. Ok i plan on using the same 8 steps that the Lil Dragons Program has. (Dicipline, balance, focus, coordination, memory, control, team work, and fitness)

2. I think im going to have them go through the 8 steps in about 6 month.

3. After each step they will promote to a new belt (white with the colored stripes down the middle)

4. For each level they advance, the 8 steps will get harder and involve more.

I dont really have much for each step cause ive been coming up with it as i go but it would be nice to get some ideas.

The 8 Steps: For each step i think class needs to consist of Warm Up, TKD drills, Drills for what ever step they are on "balance", then a game to fit whatever step they are on.

Thats it for now i will add more soon. Feel free to bash my plan all you want as long as your suggestion can make it better.

NaughtyKnight

21-Mar-2005, 11:44 PM

Sounds great :).

I wish I was still 5yrs old and lived near you, so I could go to your school, sounds very well set out and planned.

Chazz

22-Mar-2005, 12:26 AM

Sounds great :).

I wish I was still 5yrs old and lived near you, so I could go to your school, sounds very well set out and planned.

Ummmm thanks. LOL

Ok here is what i have for some of the steps:

Discipline …………… Level 1

Goal: To have each Lil Dragon lean the importance of “yes sir” and “No Sir” as well as get them situated into the procedures of class. (Bowing in, warming up, working, games, and bowing out)

What we wish to see from each Lil Dragon:
•Line up properly in class
•Stand at attention
•Bow when instructed
•Addressing instructors as sir or mam and saying “yes sir” or “yes mam”
•Following direction the first time

Tae Kwon Do Material:
•Punching straight out
•Punching across the body
•Front kicks straight out

Games:
•Instructor Says – Teaches to say “yes sir” or “yes mam” and to follow directions.

<hr>

Balance ………………. Level 1

Goal: To help each Lil Dragon walk, run, kick, jump, and play better through teaching them proper balance skills.

What we wish to see from each Lil Dragon:
•Walking one foot in front of the other.
•Running in straight lines moving both arms
•Jumping and landing without falling down
•Walking backwards without falling down.

Tae Kwon Do Material
•Stretch kicking to keep balance
•Punching straight out
•Punching across the body
•Front kicks straight out

Games:
•Balance Beam – Each Lil Dragon will walk as far as they can on the beam without stopping. Each time they will try to go further than the last time.
•Jumping Bean – Each Lil Dragon will jump on one foot at many times as they can trying to beat the time before.

<hr>

Ok start your trashin but again, only those who have ideas to help can bash LOL

NaughtyKnight

22-Mar-2005, 12:31 AM

What about practising spinning on ball of foot to help with balance in some of the spinning kicks they will be learning later on.

Dont know if this is level 1 but my master teaches it to the children from day 1 and it really helped my progress to the more advanced spinning kicks.

bluekey88

22-Mar-2005, 12:46 AM

Here are some other great games we use in our Little Dragons class.

"What Time is it Mr. Fox"
Instructor or older student stand at one end of room with a fox puppet. All other students are on other side of the room. They ask "What time is it Mr. Fox?" and the fox gives a number between 1 and 11 (not twelve). Everyone takes that many steps forward towards the fox. If fox says 12, then everyone has to run back to the start before Mr. Fox gets them and eats them.

Focuses on counting, concentration, etc...

"Duck Duck Goose" the classic game is back and as fun as ever. Focuses on speed and such.

What I call the "Dr. Seuss Game"

First, students start by putting a small plastic egg or ping pong ball on a plastic spoon. Holding the spoon and egg out in front of them, they have to walk across the room and back. Then, they put a small sponge on their head...so with an egg on the spoon and a sponge on the head the children walk across the room and back. Then, they repeat with the sponge egg spoon by doing front kicks as they walk.

Teaches balance, coordination, posture...etc.

"Animal Training"
bear walk, rabbit hop, backwards crab walk. Have the kids race across the room doing these. Kids love them. Have the parents do them too...adults hate them...very hard to do once you get big. :)

"Breaking" Have the kids do a foot stomp break through a 3" board. Most kids nail this in a try or two and it really shoots up the self-confidence.

Hula hoops....have them play with hula hoops. Great for coordination. Have them walk in a cirlce doing jump rope moves through the hoops.

If I remember others, I'll pass them on.

Peace,
Erik

Chazz

22-Mar-2005, 01:02 AM

KickChick

22-Mar-2005, 02:59 AM

Talked with the owner of our school and he has used the Century Lil Dragon curriculum for ideas.

We run our classes similar to this:

http://www.sdamerica.com/lildragons.htm
"For example, suppose we want to help the kids improve their balance. They will play a game in which the objective is to see who can stand on one leg the longest. This can be the beginning move for a kick. If we want them to work on concentration, we play a game of "Sensei says" instead of "Simon Says".

I particularly like this about the instruction:
"The Lil' Dragon curriculum was professionally designed with lessons teaching various important skills: Martial Skills, Safety Skills & Life Skills. There are several lessons for each of the skills sets listed below. The lesson break down (which is not shown), is occasionally repeated for reinforcement and memory assistance at this young age"

We set up stations around the room and have jr. instructors works with a small group at each station. One station for kicks on the lil dragon wavemaster, one on the balance beam, one with focus pads for block drills, etc. etc.....

Here is another school that has obviously used the Century curriculum.
http://members.aol.com/chonjido/ld.html (click on pg.2 for the Lil Dragon Creed ;) :D )

Chazz

22-Mar-2005, 03:14 AM

Thanks Deb. I love that Lil Dragon Oath. That would be so cute to see a class of lil kids saying to doing that. I might have to start that.

jasonservis

22-Mar-2005, 04:34 AM

Hello Chazz,Starting a lil' dragons program is way cool.Our dojo runs just a regular kids class 5-12years old. the problacks of the kids class trains with the adults on friday to toughen them up.(harder calistenics,harder falls.)

you mentioned a balance beam , we use a 2x4x8 on edge for a balance beam. the board is mortised into two 4x4's to keep it on edge.

We play a game called "gimme your lunch money" . Sensei plays bully twohanded grap kids gi collar,child defends themself by punch to the sturnum ,twohanded grap on the shirt rolls backwards for the judo throw(instructor plays along of course)after the assailant is down they run over ,and finish them off with a kick. Children just love beating on older defenseless persons.Also great for demos and birthday parties. :D

hope this is of any help.
jason

Chazz

22-Mar-2005, 05:02 AM

KickChick

22-Mar-2005, 11:03 AM

LOL that soulds fun. I will have to save this for the older ones. The balance beam is what im doin now.

We've done a "gladiators-type" drill where we give each child a blocker and they try to knock the other one off the beam.
A little more difficult drill that combines balance and coordination is walking on a balance beam while playing catch.

The game that most of the kids love to play is "Dodge Ball". (Seems its been banned in school gyms due to being a rough game :bang: )
We use one of those very large plastic balls you can get at Walmart and have two lines facing of team #1. Team #2 is in the middle and the ball is tossed to strike a member of opp. team. Once hit they sit down.

Sgt_Major

22-Mar-2005, 11:15 AM

Or the Guantlet ..... you get 2 lines of kids with wiffle bats, or some other such prodding implement, and each kid takes it in turn to run through trying to dodge the prodding.....

can sub prodding with tennis balls or bean bags etc depending on stature of the kids... hmmmm, maybe a bit rough for the very young 'uns

Or one I just made up, so bear with me.......

get them all to spin round and round til they get dizzy and get then to race - good balance training, and when they older they know what it feels like to get a blow on the head, but still have the determination to keep moving......

kchenault

22-Mar-2005, 12:10 PM

Chazz,

The bear walk is easy but taxing on the body. Basically walking on all fours. Feet flat or on toes and palms flat, then "walk". Works the entir body for great fun and lots of excercise. Parents will love that you are wearing their kids out. My 5 year literally runs through the house like a wild animal this way and he is lean, but has great musculature. Wish I could follow his example. He is also very fast like this. It has evolved into something like a dog run, using all limbs at different intervals to move more quickly. Try having the kids emulate animal movements to work out their whole body. They will thank you later in life.

Chazz

22-Mar-2005, 04:21 PM

Yeah we play dodge ball also. I have then stang against a wall and i toss the pall at them. It they catch it they win (working on hand eye coordination) if i tag them they sit down.

I will have to try the catch while on the beam. That looks like it could be interesting.

Now what about for some of the other (focus, coordination, memory, control, team work, and fitness)

KickChick

22-Mar-2005, 04:39 PM

Now what about for some of the other (focus, coordination, memory, control, team work, and fitness)

I know you have this link but there are some great ideas here ..
http://www.4kicks.com/?tabid=28&view=listing&Cat=3,%204,%205%20Year%20Olds&CatId=19

Kids love obstacle courses ... there are great suggestions on this site on how to set various ones up.

Thomas

22-Mar-2005, 05:24 PM

Just any help would do.
Here's a bit of an an alternative approach

We teach kids as young as 5, but generally find that the kids are more developmentally ready around ages 7-8. Our philosophy is that we focus on teaching martial arts, so the focus of the kids’ training is in those skills as well as in character education (like respect and manners and such). Playing games and such is okay once in a great while, but our course focuses around martial arts… so any games we play revolve around sparring skills and such (like chicken fighting, sparring with our hands behind our backs, etc.). The kids come to us to learn martial arts, so that’s what we do. It can still be fun and engaging.

We start the kids off one-on-one with an instructor to teach them the etiquette, basic blocks, and basic strikes. After a few classes, we move them into our regular classes and alternatively pair them up with same age peers or with adult black belts. We work the same basic skills with all of the students… including kicking drills, step sparring, and forms and modify the level of difficulty for the age and ability level… so a new 6 year old white belt may be doing a front kick and an older yellow belt may do a jump front kick.

Yes, some students aren’t mature enough to handle this and they usually are asked to come back and try again in a few months. However the vast majority of young kids we get do very well in learning the assigned curriculum and are tested on the same material for the same belt ranks as the other students. In other words, a child’s green belt means they demonstrated the same material and techniques to a satisfactory degree as any other green belt in the school.

Here’s some tips I keep in mind for the kids:
1. The real young ones need shorter periods of training… the younger new students will train for about 30-35 minutes per class and we gradually extend the class time as they get older… regular class is 75 minutes.

2. Change activities every 10 minutes or so to keep attention. I keep all of the activities related on a common theme but vary the application and demonstration of the skills. Technically they are learning the same skills for the whole length of time but the activities are varied.

3. The little ones need constant supervision and encouragement without making them too dependent. They need to be watched for safety and proper technique but can’t be accustomed to relying on an instructor to prod them along or always make it “fun”.

4. Provide the expectation that they must perform to the same degree as everyone else to foster responsibility and pride in what they do. Kids know if someone gets promoted based on something other than ability…

5. Begin early with situational awareness and educate them about strangers and how to avoid situations. Teach them to use their voices. Also model, demonstrate and supervise their control over their skills so they don’t classmates in or outside of the dojang.

Good training!

blessed_samurai

24-Mar-2005, 03:52 AM

Some of the things we emphasize are for the children to scream "fire, fire!" when an adult is trying to take them away. We forego the usual "help" because the public is generally desensitized to someone screaming "help," but everyone loves a good fire. We have found (psychologically) this brings more attention from those nearby.

We follow up with the kids screaming "You're not my dad (mom), let me go!" This alerts others of the situation. Since it's not uncommon for children to be abducted in public places, this is an ideal cry for help.

We definately integrate all the punching and kicking, but we also teach about "distracting" or "softening" techniques-foot stomping, etc

The games we play are like Simon Says, where the instructor will give a command "Simon says touch your nose" and will often touch his cheek to see if the kids are listening or not.

We also play a game called Pillars where you put two kids together and space them out. Then one kid runs to the safety of a pillar (two kids grouped together) and the other kid tries to catch them. This teaches paying attention and finding a safe base.

Almost every class has 1-2 self defense techniques from grabs or strikes and basic skills work. We try to emphasize to the parents the importance of their interaction with their kids through the week. Basically, the premise is "through the week, grab your kids...grab them like you mean it and let them get out of it the best they can."

Chazz

26-Mar-2005, 01:24 PM

Well i just had my first lil dragons class. (real class with two 5 year old) Right now we are working on the Dicipline section. The only game i can think of for a beginners game is Instructor Says. Any other ideas for this section. (no matter what skill lever real easy ot a little hard)

neryo_tkd

11-Sep-2005, 02:43 PM

i found and read the entire thread again. i myself am starting a kids program and i found some really useful info here. so if there is anyone who wants to share more games and drills that can be used with kids, please post them.

neryo_tkd

13-Sep-2005, 12:46 PM

i found the following tip on a site with games for kids:

Ok take a cookie sheet about 1/2 inch deep. Fill it with water and freeze. Now put a few together for a nice effect when breaking. This is usually used for kids.

what is a cookie sheet?

NaughtyKnight

13-Sep-2005, 12:57 PM

One thing my master does. He gets the kids to take off their armour and hold it out infront of them. And facing a partner they do roundhouse kicks moving around in a circle to the armour. The kids LOVE it, and they get really fast from doing it.

I tried it aswell, hell of a work out.

Thomas

13-Sep-2005, 01:50 PM

what is a cookie sheet?
A shallow metal pan to cook cookies/small cakes on in the oven. It's made out of steel, so I imiagine you remove the ice from it before breaking. I imagine you could use the cheap aluminium foil ones without removing the ice for a neat effect though (might be easier).

neryo_tkd

13-Sep-2005, 03:12 PM

A shallow metal pan to cook cookies/small cakes on in the oven. It's made out of steel, so I imiagine you remove the ice from it before breaking. I imagine you could use the cheap aluminium foil ones without removing the ice for a neat effect though (might be easier).

oh that? ok, thanx, but i still don't get the idea of the breaking as i posted in my above post. how should we put them together?

jcurtis

13-Sep-2005, 03:21 PM

oh that? ok, thanx, but i still don't get the idea of the breaking as i posted in my above post. how should we put them together?

I would imagine that you remove the ice from the pan and stack them like you would boards or bricks for the break. Most people stack their bricks or boards or ice for that matter, on cinder blocks from what i have seen.

neryo_tkd

13-Sep-2005, 04:27 PM

I would imagine that you remove the ice from the pan and stack them like you would boards or bricks for the break. Most people stack their bricks or boards or ice for that matter, on cinder blocks from what i have seen.

and would you allow young kids to do such a break?

neryo_tkd

18-Sep-2005, 09:49 AM

More tips here ... games & drills
Tips for 3,4, & 5 year olds (http://www.4kicks.com/?tabid=28&view=listing&Cat=3,%204,%205%20Year%20Olds&CatId=19)

i checked out this link. the web site is really great. i'm gonna use some of those games and drills in my kids' class.

jcurtis

21-Sep-2005, 04:56 PM

and would you allow young kids to do such a break?

I guess that would depend on how thick it is, and what technique they are going to use. i am not an instructor yet so i have no say in the matter currently but, all the instructors i know are very careful with the kids and dont allow them to do things that would cause them serious injury.

I have only seen one person break ice in our organization and it was during their test for 2nd Dan. It looks really impressive but doesnt seem to be any harder than bricks or boards, if anyhting i would say it was easier. But i don't really know as i have never tried it.

I would definately test it out and see how hard it is to do before allowing any student, child or not, to try it.

neryo_tkd

22-Sep-2005, 12:24 PM

jcurtis

22-Sep-2005, 12:46 PM

yes, 'careful' is the key word. those kids are my responsibility and i would not allow them to break ice. why not start with something that won't injure them like styrofoam? that's a good idea and that's what i'll do. when kids get more confident with their techniques and breaking we can move on to thin boards. even though i don't know if they can injure their fist/hand that way :confused: breaking boards with their leg sounds better.

For really young kids our org allows them to break what we call "demo" boards. They are about 3/8's of an inch (1cm) thick and really easy to break. The person holding them has to be careful not to put to much pressure on them as they sometimes will snap (depends a lot on how dry they are). As they get better we add more demo boards until they are about the equivelant of a regular pine board, at that point they switch to normal boards.

Edit: I have never seen any of the children hurt themselves on these demo boards.

neryo_tkd

22-Sep-2005, 01:38 PM

Edit: I have never seen any of the children hurt themselves on these demo boards.

that's good to know. could you please tell me what techniques the kids use to break those boards and what age are we talking about here?

bluekey88

22-Sep-2005, 03:39 PM

at our school, breaking is a regular part of our Little Dragons class. We use a regular thickness board (1"...which is really 3/4"). We cut the boards 3" wide and the kids break using a foot stomp. It's a great confidence booster. Stronger kids tha show aptitude sometimes get a chance to break a 3" boad using a hammer fist (the first white belt break at our school).

The order of breaks in our children's program (after Little dragons) goes hammer fist, hammer knife, side knife. That's all I can remember off the top of my head. I'd have to look up the rest.

Peac,e
Erik

jcurtis

22-Sep-2005, 05:08 PM

From what i have heard from most instructors, they dont allow students under the age of 5. So all of them are at least 5 as far as i know. Depending on body type and size they could be up to around 11-12 before breaking regular boards.

Some of the techniques i have seen are:
straight punch
reverse punch
elbow strike
knife hand strike
palm strike
back fist
round house
side kick
back kick
axe kick

We also dont start breaking until usually the yellow-green belt level(yes yellow-green is one belt, its in between yellow and green and is the 2nd belt after white). So they have typically between 6 and 9 months of practice before they start breaking.

We also use a lot of different types of re-breakables for practice since real wood can become quite expensive and messy.

neryo_tkd

09-Oct-2005, 09:59 AM

We also dont start breaking until usually the yellow-green belt level(yes yellow-green is one belt, its in between yellow and green and is the 2nd belt after white). So they have typically between 6 and 9 months of practice before they start breaking.

yes, that sounds good. i started the kids program last week. so far we have had only 1 training session. i've got app. 20 kids and they are great. they are very competitive. the parents watched the first training too and they kept laughing at the kids all the time :D i also came up with a song for them for motivation :D

NaughtyKnight

09-Oct-2005, 10:15 AM

What song was it?

If my master pumped some hardstyle dance while we trained, I think i might kill everyone I'd be so motivated :D

neryo_tkd

09-Oct-2005, 11:29 AM

What song was it?

If my master pumped some hardstyle dance while we trained, I think i might kill everyone I'd be so motivated :D

it's only 6 short lines. a song i came up with. they'll perform it accompanying it with techniques at a grading in our club :D

Deadly Nik

31-Oct-2005, 09:16 PM

Hi Chaz,
My head instructor and I teach a program similar to the little dragon's program. It for 4 - 12 year olds, teaching all the usual things to pass up through the ranks (such as patterns, 3 step, sparring, self defence and when high enough up in the ranks breaking) but also incorporating a stranger danger element and a strong "no to drugs" message.
I find that the kids develop self confidence, manner, improved posture, they are happier and are fitter, and with the self defence program it makes them feel confident if a stranger were to attack them (we use adults padded up in sparring gear and the kids are allowed to do anything but spit).
You have to teach them in a different way to adults, i'm lucky that i have a background involving children, so it's easy for me to adapt, just using simpler ways to explain, making training "FUN" and patience!!!!. :)

Damjanich

01-Nov-2005, 01:38 AM

estranged13

01-Nov-2005, 03:25 AM

is this and ata taekwondo class? if it is be weary i'm not impressed with them at all.

where are you located? and will you take the class with him? you'd be amazed at what a difference a parent makes in martial arts class instead of just dropping the kid off

KickChick

02-Nov-2005, 03:03 AM

These types of martial art programs that are directed towards 3-5 year olds.... claim that after a few months of training, these children will show dramatic changes, such as lower anxiety levels, an increase in responsibility, better focus, demonstration of respect, and a higher self-esteem.

I can only assume that the "constant repetition of "Yes, Sir" .... will teach them respect.

cairnsckd

02-Nov-2005, 03:37 AM

I am thinking about taking my 3 and a half year old son to a Tiny Tiger TKD class. What is your opinion about the class? Have you noticed any change in your child's behavior? How did the constant repetition of "Yes, Sir" impacted him/her?

Your opinion is appreciated.

Like anything, it would depend on the Instructor(s).

I created a Tiny Tiger program in my school in 2001, and then forced my step-daughter kicking and screaming to participate. Naa, she actually wanted to do it.

It certainly has helped her confidence in some areas, and the respect for elders she has now is great.

We don't advertise the program anymore, as the current 10-12 at each school is certainly more than enough for any Instructor to cope with.

As all the kids are different, and the way they react and learn from it is also different. It is just as important that the parents support it 100% as well. We've had some near miracles from some Tiny Tigers, yet the parents don't see it, and after a while, pull them out. Shame that the kids never got to reach their full potential in the program.

Our first batch of ex-Tiny Tigers go for their Black Belt tests this December. We're pretty excited. They've done just so well to keep it up and get to where they are.

Kwajman

02-Nov-2005, 01:33 PM

When I used to assist in the class, ours was called "Little Dragons", it was a lot of fun. We stressed balance, confidence building, respect, and the ability to follow directions. I think the classes are a great tool for MA students.

G50

02-Nov-2005, 01:50 PM

neryo_tkd

25-Nov-2005, 02:40 PM

no wonder. that's actually the main purpose of such programs, as well as the development/improvement of motoric skills.

blue_sky

10-Dec-2005, 10:02 AM

In my club there's one group for kids. They are 6 and 7 years old and they have trained for three months. They are so kind and simpatic and they have great fun here in our club. I think that groups like this one are great for kids and there should be more stuff like this for children. :)

Area 51

10-Dec-2005, 11:52 AM

I train in blue_sky's club and i have seen the kids program. it's great. they are our little dragons. when they grow up and become juniors and seniors they will win everything there is to win. They Will Fly Like Dragons :)

Thomas

10-Dec-2005, 03:04 PM

Nice comments to hear about someone's club! :)

It's funny because as an instructor, I've never really been too fond of children's programs, children with black belts, and so on. The stereotypes are out there.

But as I watch the children in our program grow and develop great martial arts skills and the great character traits that we like to see in well mannered, responsible citizens, I am always overwhelmed. Not only do these programs pull these kids away from eye cancer (TV/Video games/ etc) but they help keep kids in shape and teach them to be responsible young people. I am constantly surprised by their insights and their comprehension of the botht he physical and mental. Maybe something about the Buddhist "Child Mind", huh?

neryo_tkd

10-Dec-2005, 03:52 PM

blue_sky and Area 51 are my students. it happens very often that my students come early to the club just to watch the kids training.

i organised the program in such a way that they have 3 gradings, just like the other students in the club have, but the kids from the kids program don't get belts. the entire year they wear their dobok with their white belt.

next year the kids from the kids group will start training in the beginners group and then they'll start grading for belts. in my club there are no 7 years olds with i don't know how many Dans.

Thomas

10-Dec-2005, 11:30 PM

Sounds like you got some great students and some great programs going on. You know what they say though? "Students reflect their instructor."

:love:

neryo_tkd

11-Dec-2005, 10:22 AM

Sounds like you got some great students and some great programs going on. You know what they say though? "Students reflect their instructor."

:love:

thank you :love:

but you know, one has to stay in touch with reality. there are parents who think that their kids are something extra extra extra. they are their kids and it's normal that they think that way but still for the sake of those children one should choose another more appropariate approach.

there were parents and kids who were surprised when they realised that there would be no belts in the kids program.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
one more thing from another group: there is a mother who in the beginning would not allow her children to compete, but then when she accompanied her daughter to her first competition, she started making statements that her son should have also competed because he would have won everyone. i didn't say anything at that point of time to her because i was busy with my competitors but that's not a healthy attitude coming from a parent, especially when parents convince their children that they are better than they actually are. you know that at competitions every child is trying to win and the better one will win. it's pointless to accuse the judges or the refs or whoever for the loss.

kwang gae

22-Jan-2006, 05:06 PM

there were parents and kids who were surprised when they realised that there would be no belts in the kids program.
I like that idea, and when I have my own dojang I'd like to implement it too. Do you think giving them something like a star to sew on their dobok's would work as a reward? I'm big on rewards for good work, but I too don't like the idea of a 12 year old 7th Dan.

Neryo asked me to post the rules for TKD Dodge Ball in this thread, and so I'm going to do my best. I'm not sure where this game comes from, but the kids have been playing it in our school forever, and they love it.

First you split up into two teams, (the kids favorite is to be kids vs. adults), then we put a soft bouncy ball in the center of the dojang on the floor and everyone backs away to the far walls. The "Shijak" command signals a mad scramble for the ball.

The game then proceeds like regular dodge ball with the exception that you can use any TKD blocks to avoid getting hit. So if a ball is coming at your legs and you throw a low block and hit the ball away you're still in. You can punch the ball away, or kick it away too. If you catch the ball, the person who threw it is out. We also emphasize "voids" where you basically sidestep or turn away to avoid getting hit.

Two other rules, if the ball hits the ceiling the one who through or kicked it is out, and if you dodge the ball but it bounces off the wall and comes back to hit you you're still out.

Finally, sometimes we add a second ball to speed up the game if we're running late.
Enjoy!

Ragnarok2005

28-Jan-2006, 04:53 PM

We have them too.

And they're just incredible. I've had some of these kids talk to me about how I shouldn't drink coca-cola or eat at McDonalds, and that they don't. Also when [at whatever age it is] they get to join the regular classes as white belts they are at a very decent level. I've seen them doing side kicks and turning kicks and they're technique is actually very good.

They also do written and reading tasks with obvious educational benefits as well as doing fire safety. [One of our yellow belts is the Chief Fireman of his town]

So to the people who believe it's a money spin-off. Our Little Dragons would convince you otherwise I'm sure.

lord s

12-Mar-2006, 01:58 PM

Hi all
I'v been working as a TKD instructor for a while now, but sometimes I have some problems with the little kids (KG1, KG2).
my instructor told me when teaching them poomsies, if they make a mistake make them repeate all over again, and that works with him, after few times you find the kid holding up a serious face, but with me, no one cares, they just start blowing with their mouths and such stuff
can you please give me few tips for teaching forms and kicks for little kids?
thanks

angry

12-Mar-2006, 02:21 PM

You need to either be more of an authority figure in the view of the child (which may mean changing some of your mannerism and sayings) or make each part of the form into a game in which the goal is to get it as close to right as they can. Of course if you are not really enthusiastic about teaching them, they will not be very interested in practising them when there are much more interesting things to do. Your intructor being older than you I assume will automatical be more respected by younger children. Read up on how to teach that age group and try a few things. Not everything will work for you and not everything will work with every child. Have fun now. :P

Anth

12-Mar-2006, 02:22 PM

They've probably seen your website ;)

robertmap

12-Mar-2006, 02:38 PM

They've probably seen your website ;)
Hi,

I like the website :)

With kids the rules are...

1) You need the patience of a saint (A major saint not any old saint).
2) Whatever you ask them to do - DO IT YOURSELF.
3) Make it enjoyable (that's not 'fun' but not 'military style' either).
4) Remember kids are NOT little adults - they need different tuition methods.
5) Kids bodies are still growing - don't damage them with knuckle press-ups or whatever.
6) They are probably NOT interested in 'Street self defence' or training for the next 50 years to become a master so keep it light hearted.

and the most important rule...

If you want to be a good teacher of kids you have to like teaching kids.

All the best.

Robert.

neryo_tkd

12-Mar-2006, 03:47 PM

i know this thread is long, but do read it and make sure to check out the provided links. they are worth it. i also teach kids and i don't believe in the military style. with so little you can accomplish a lot.

i think the most important thing is that you discuss the rules with the kids. make them simple and not many. when the kids understand them and see that you stick to them they will too.

also whenever you can organise the training as a competition. they love it and are motivated. if you practice forms, then you will tell them which form you are about to practice and that those who do something wrong are ''thrown out'' (not in these words please). you'll see that they will give their best.

but also make sure to reward them if they behave good throughout the training. i always do.

and one more thing. at the end of the training, the kids line up, we bow and then they leave. but they don't simply just line up, i tell them that i'm going to count to 5 and they have to run to the place where we line up, if they do it ok, they get to play a game next training, if not, they are ''punished'' immediately with stand ups or something like that.

Freeform

12-Mar-2006, 04:44 PM

Hi,

I like the website :)

You like Lord S's website? Have you seen it? If his website is anything to go by I wouldn't trust him to teach paint to dry.

WalkingThePath

07-Apr-2006, 02:06 PM

Hi all,
Quick question. I am a school teacher (only 'til I make my millions and am discovered as the next MA film star/world famous instructor) and am toying with the idea of opening my own club. I am just wondering if anyone teaches kids, and how??
The prospect of it quite frankly scares the brown liquidy stuff straight out of me. Plus the fact that I spend about 6 hours a day teaching the little bugge- erms, angels anyway, would I really want to do it as a hobby too??
So, any idea how or if to teach the little darlings TKD? What approaches do you use? how do you get them to focus? What sort of thing do you do? What is a 'typical' TKD kiddies class?
J

narcsarge

07-Apr-2006, 02:30 PM

:cool: :Angel: Walking, I can not speak on "How to teach" TKD but I have been teaching children swimming since I was 16 years old (I am 44 now). I have a son, 9 years old, and I observed his classes long before I decided to join him. As a teacher I always want the kids to enjoy the hour or so they spend with me so my teaching method was relaxed. I want the kids to take it seriously so they will be safe, but not so seriously they worry they were not good enough. As an observer I have seen bad and good TKD instructors. My suggestion, stick to the tenets of TKD and demand the children show proper respect; to one another, their instructors, their teachers, their parents, and adults. Also, insist they take personal responsibility for what they do. I love it when my son meets an adult for the first time and answers with a 'Yes ma'am' or 'Yes sir'. You have to decide if teaching your hobby is worth dealing with the 'little ones'. Good luck.

cavallin

07-Apr-2006, 03:08 PM

HEY! i work in a school too, and have just started a new club, and also regularly teach the juniors where i train.
i think that you need to first consider whether you really want to do this, because i know how it feels to be around kids constantly, and i can get very annoying in the end. i suggest you look at doing a seperate adult and junior class, so when you're in the adult class you can enjoy teaching adults and socialising with them (or just enjoy the social aspect more)
as for teaching them, there are lots of threads around that may benefit you one is "little nijas/tigers" or something similar.
you should ask 2sweet and sally, as they have a massively successful junior class, i think they have about 60, and only 3 of the kids who tried it out have quit in one year (thats like AMAZING)
i wont divulge their secrets unless they want me to, so i suggest maybe pm'ing them?

TKDQ

07-Apr-2006, 03:30 PM

Hi,

I join in on my daughters class and use it as a warm up before the adults start, I was quite surprised at how well the children behave during class, admittedly there are a couple of monsters,who I am sure suffer with ADHD!! No matter how much my instructor tried to help them their behaviour didn't improve, in the end the childs mum joined and his lack of concentration has improved no end! I think on the whole it's a great idea, children need something like this, something they will enjoy and teach them respect and self control, saying that though, I think you have to remember that the standard will not be the same as an adult class, especially from the under 8's, so don't expect too much from the Korean terminology side if things, I am quite hard on my daughter and have her doing her terminology four times a week, but some parents won't, therefore they will only do as much as what they do in class. With their concentration lapsing every ten minutes be sure to keep the class varied. Its hard work,as my instructor has has me help out during some childrens classes, but if like you say you have already taught children in school it should be a synch!! Good luck. :)

Yossarian

07-Apr-2006, 04:36 PM

I teach Tang Soo Do to kids and adults. Since you are a school teacher I imagine you are allready well versed in handeling kids, you will have it easyer than most.

Kids at a MA club usually want to be there so are more likely to behave, if they dont you can punish them with exersises etc. If you get any serious troublemakers that just will not behave you can ban them.

The format of kids classes at my school are generally the same as that for the adults. We will make exersises etc into games sometimes to make it more fun. We tend to do a larger veriety of activities and for shorter times so they dont loose focus.

neryo_tkd

09-Apr-2006, 03:14 PM

Roper

05-May-2006, 10:34 AM

Sorry to bump this right back to the top, but I just came across it now.

Don't mind anyone who says that age specific programmes are the sign of McDojos/ McDojangs etc. That term has lost all meaning. I'm sure the "traditionalists" would quite like it to be like it was in the old days and have the kids line up military style and chant, or maybe have them in with the adults, but that's bullsh1t.

Children are not little adults and by recognising that and putting a programme in place to cater for them the OP is being responsible and is looking after the best interests of the children. Best of luck with it mate. I teach Taekwondo to all ages and we incorporate fc martial arts like BJJ and boxing with no problems, no injuries and lots and lots of fun. The best programme I've come across for teaching kids martial arts is this http://www.onedragon.com/train_childrenprog.shtml

Best of luck to the OP with the new classes. Kids are rewarding, fun, and great innovators!!! :)

neryo_tkd

28-Jul-2006, 08:54 AM

and have the kids line up military style and chant, or maybe have them in with the adults, but that's bullsh1t.

Children are not little adults and by recognising that and putting a programme in place to cater for them the OP is being responsible and is looking after the best interests of the children.

i agree, kids can learn a lot but it has to be presented to them on a level aceptable to them.

i also teach kids and they amaze me over and over with their creativeness, intelligence and they never ever forget to remind me if i promised them a game the following training session :D

neryo_tkd

09-Dec-2006, 08:37 PM

Kids at a MA club usually want to be there so are more likely to behave, if they dont you can punish them with exersises etc. If you get any serious troublemakers that just will not behave you can ban them.

something has to be done, that's for sure, because it should be pointed out to them that there are certain rules which they have to follow.

neryo_tkd

01-Mar-2007, 11:48 AM

http://www.newcastlemartialarts.com/default.html

what do you think about the title? :D

csears

28-Apr-2009, 01:58 AM

Looks like I'm waking a zombie thread here, but I'd like to add $0.02 worth.

IMNSHO, a good Tiger (or whatever you call it) program is valuable and productive as long as two main things are kept in mind.

1. It should be taught as an introduction to martial arts sort of class. The kids need to learn fundamentals of paying attention, answering up, courtesy, respect, etc. as well as good foundational martial arts techniques.

2. Worth emphasizing: THE KIDS SHOULD NOT EARN RANK WHILE IN THE PROGRAM! They should be held at White Belt until they grow old enough to join the regular classes. Let them earn stars, headbands, colored stripes on the belt, whatever - they'll kill themselves to do a good job and earn them. By keeping them as White Belts, we eliminate the problem of having Black Belts who are just barely out of diapers.

gemtkd

05-Feb-2011, 10:08 AM

I am hoping to get my bb and start a tkd class in October this year! I've been looking at all the programs ninjas/dragons/tigers, and was wondering firstly. How old do you think the youngest kids should be; and is there actual courses to learn the program(s)? Also, I am guessing that they are all much the same, but is there a preferred program?

csears

19-Feb-2011, 03:17 PM

I personally prefer to start kids with two qualifications: at least age 6 (preferably age 7) and in first grade. I personally don't like teaching Tiny Tiger classes and around age 6 is where the first growth spurt occurs. It's a mental growth spurt, with vocabulary increase, etc., but most importantly, kids start showing signs of rational thinking - step A leads to step B leads to step C, and so forth. That makes them much more able to memorize the sequence of movements in forms, one-steps, self-defense segments and the like.

If you're going to start a club from scratch, I recommend that you start by using this guideline. Once your club is established and has a good student base, you can then look at expanding to afternoon classes and do your Tigers then. If you do, get some serious training on how to run classes like that, because the little ones will drive you batshit crazy if you don't know how to handle them.