Martial arts that WORK

[wrathchild]

hey, i'm new to the forum and I was wondering if anyone has had to use their martial art on the street. I do choi kwang do, and they claim that it is very effective on the street, but ive never had to use it.

[YODA]

Originally posted by wrathchild
hey, i'm new to the forum and I was wondering if anyone has had to use their martial art on the street.

Do a search using the errrr..... search function. We've had a few threads about this.


I do choi kwang do, and they claim that it is very effective on the street, but ive never had to use it.

That's Ok. We won't hold it against you :D

Welcome to the Whacky World of MAP :D

[Cain]

Welcome to MAP wraith :D

.......:eek::yeleyes::D:p.........

|Cain|

[wrathchild]

ty

[YODA]

Ty?

Did someone say TY?

http://www.ty.com/images/products/classics1.gif

[wrathchild]

:eek:
erm.....k then.....what you been smoking?
lol

[YODA]

I don't smoke - I'm just high on a happy life and the spirit of giving :D

[morphus]

Oh no .....another CKD'ist.

Welcome to the MAP forum, there are a couple of us that do CKD on the forum and the subject of CKD can get quite sticky at times.

Stay open minded when reading other peoples posts, more so don't be closed minded when posting or making claims about CKD!

What level in CKD are you at??

Have fun and learn what you can from some very wise martial artists while you're here! ;)

[wrathchild]

I did ckd for a while and reached blue belt, and im starin it again tommorow cos of trouble at school, so i dunno if they'd let me back in at blue belt, i dont think they will

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Depending on your instructor what they might do is let you in at white belt, but not make you take any gradings until you're back at your old standard, then let you take a blue senior grading, but it does depend on your instructor.

And yes, lots of martial arts work on the street, and Choi has worked for me in the past.

[Cain]

Here we go :D:p

|Cain|

[pgm316]

You'll be fine with CKD, isn't it tested at the Florida HQ to make sure it works in all situations for all people. Sadly theres no CKD where I live so I'll have to make do with the out of date Kung Fu stuff ;)

Seriously, do you believe you can make what you learn work in the street?

[Freeform]

Morphus, Jimmy,

After an absence you are required to wear a white belt again? Is this just if you let your membership slip or is it to safeguard the practitioner from training with 'more current' practitioners?

I'm not having a go or anything like that, just interested. We've had guys go AWOL for a year or 2, when they come back they still retain their old grade but normally train in a 'class' down, to ease back in. Normally after a month or so they can get put back where they were when they left.

Col

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by pgm316
You'll be fine with CKD, isn't it tested at the Florida HQ to make sure it works in all situations for all people. Sadly theres no CKD where I live so I'll have to make do with the out of date Kung Fu stuff ;)

Seriously, do you believe you can make what you learn work in the street?

C,mon pgm. Let the guy get his jacket off before you start on all that mate :D

[wrathchild]

Pgm, I do think it works on the street, I just havent had to use it to see if i'm right

[Freeform]

Wrathchild, I suggest that you have a look in the CKD section of the forum and read the now infamous CKD debate, ah, those were the days.....

Oh and I just realised, Welcome to the forum! :D

[Andy Murray]

Here's the link to the thread, bring a packed lunch;

Choi Kwang Do (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=548)

[Cain]

Don't forget the popcorn :D

And don't be scared by the number of pages, it's fun to read the whole thing rite guys? ;)

*ducks as a 100 bottles are thrown at him*

|Cain|

[wrathchild]

lol

[morphus]

PMG - After an absence you are required to wear a white belt again? ......Absolutely not ..not in my class!!!!!!!!!!!!!!you wear the colour you have graded to ...and play catch up if you have forgotten anything!

[morphus]

Lets not open the CKD debate again - it really isn't worth it, we all do martial arts, and "I" have total repect for all arts!

[Cain]

Easy Morphus, I am sure it ain't world war 4.......YET ;)

|Cain|

[morphus]

Draw! :woo: :D

[TkdWarrior]

Pgm, I do think it works on the street, I just havent had to use it to see if i'm right
---------------------------------------------

just hope that u don't hav to use it.
-TkdWarrior-

[TkdWarrior]

Here's the link to the thread, bring a packed lunch;
---------------------
sounds like andy is missing all the fun ???
-TkdWarrior-

[LilBunnyRabbit]

After an absence you are required to wear a white belt again? Is this just if you let your membership slip or is it to safeguard the practitioner from training with 'more current' practitioners?

Neither, in all of the cases I've seen it happen its because the student has wanted to wear the white belt until they get back up to their old standard. After my break I came back in at my old belt level, took six months to relearn everything, and went from there. A friend of mine took a longer absence, went back, didn't think he was up to being his old belt level, and is now wearing a white belt out of his own choice until he gets back up to red belt standard.


You'll be fine with CKD, isn't it tested at the Florida HQ to make sure it works in all situations for all people. Sadly theres no CKD where I live so I'll have to make do with the out of date Kung Fu stuff

Nope, its tested in the Florida HQ to make sure that the techniques are biomechanically sound and produce the maximum amount of power with the optimum amount of speed.


Wrathchild, I suggest that you have a look in the CKD section of the forum and read the now infamous CKD debate, ah, those were the days.....

Shame we don't still have the old original thread, now that was an interesting debate.

[Andy Murray]

Actually, I may have it in my hard drive!

Want to bid for it?

What's it worth?

[YODA]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
Actually, I may have it in my hard drive!

Want to bid for it?

What's it worth?


I'll give you a half eaten cheese butty and an out of date bag of pork scratchings.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

If you've got it I'd like to take a look actually, forgotten what varied topics we discussed in it.

[Andy Murray]

Best sent by email actually. It got very nasty.

If you PM me your email address, I'll send it!

[Cain]

Check your pms Andy ;)

|Cain|

[Cain]

Originally posted by Andy Murray
Actually, I may have it in my hard drive!

Want to bid for it?

What's it worth?

More than you think Andy, you will be satisfied trust me ;)

|Cain|

[Andy Murray]

Never trust an Indian.
They shot John Wayne.
I saw it in da movies!

[Cain]

LOL! :D

|Cain|

[morphus]

The trouble is that anyone who has successfully defended themselves on the street or similar can claim their style or non-style works, even someone from a tae bo class could make this claim.

Conclusion....hmmm.:confused:

[Sonshu]

I have had one set of experience with a CKD person, he was a nice guy but other people who trained with him said he was not really up to any standard - he was a dan grade.

I dont know anything about the style so would not comment, how does it differ in short as I cant be jiffed to look it up. How is it different from TKD????

Cant be much difference in it, less high kicky stuff I guess? right or miles off?

SONSHU

[Cain]

Sonshu take a look at the choi kwang do thread in the CKD forum, it gets VERY interesting, as Andy said -

Bring a packed lunch

Oh and don't forget the popcorn too ;)

|Cain|

[morphus]

I don't want to use the official CKD statements, as it seems to fuel a lot resentment because of it's claims
and i totally understand this.
So here is what attracted me to CKD in the first place.
From the martial arts classes in MY area, it differed highly.
No standing in line for a whole lesson do snap punches and not being told why.
Having an approachable instructor(not limited to CKD)but it helped.
Family atmosphere - important, we started as a family(things have changed a bit now for me)
Easy to learn tech's...no locks and not many throws, so no high impact landings.
No contact sparring/defence drills - this appealed to me as at the time i could not turn up for work with bruises and red marks over my face.
No lock out tech's and did have arobic type patterns - this was & is important as was already 29yrs at starting CKD and i saw the importance of health and fitness.
Full power techniques on shields and focus mitts - great stress reliever and good for bone structure.
No trying to hit small pressure targets, just vunerable simple to hit parts of the body with simple techs.

The techniques were sequential body movement - which i totally got on board with straight away - i loved this part.


All this gave me a thurst for martial arts in general and i am thankful - THE STYLE WAS RIGHT FOR ME AT THE TIME!
I now study Combat Ju Jitsu as well, and get any information on self defence anywhere i can(if it seems right for me).


If you want the official statement(some say propogander and i can't be bothered arguing) go to www.choikwangdo.com

[Sonshu]

There are some bloody bold statements!

I can see why it got people backs up. An interesting point and I know its been laboured to death - NO SPARING or LOCKS!!!! - PLEASE

It is basically a TKD style with no hyper extension - this is good.

Still as I said earlier I never trained with the CKD person, but in speaking to him he was a nice guy and that counts to me.

Still its horses for courses! - I like ruff and ready, dirty fighting stuff that is as effective as I can get. I beg, borrow and steal from other styles and I am open about it. Its only the stuff that works for me and scrap the rest.

I have to say the CKD stuff on the is very badly written and is gonna really annoy people.

Still I have never done it so cant comment much on it.

Also on the thread there was some interesting points on the one or 2 bone blocking. I have to say still dont know if I am a one or 2 bone person - bones like trees but never stopped to worry about it - if it works and all that - interesting though!

SONSHU

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I can see why it got people backs up. An interesting point and I know its been laboured to death - NO SPARING or LOCKS!!!! - PLEASE

Check the oft-repeated responses of defense drills and infighting techniques. And remember, we're not trying to teach people to immobolize their opponent, we're trying to teach them to stop them, so restraint techniques are secondary to hitting them hard, fast, and repeatedly.


It is basically a TKD style with no hyper extension - this is good.

No, its not at all. It is a completely seperate style from TKD. The very basis of the techniques are different, the theory behind each one is different, and the drills are different. Sorry for sounding combative about it, but I'm just fed up of people saying 'Oh, its just TKD.'


Still its horses for courses! - I like ruff and ready, dirty fighting stuff that is as effective as I can get. I beg, borrow and steal from other styles and I am open about it. Its only the stuff that works for me and scrap the rest.

What you get taught depends on your instructor. Technically there is grappling, locks, and even groundwork in the CKD curriculum, but its not core, and so is only taught at higher levels by some instructors, however when you do get taught it it does work.


I have to say the CKD stuff on the is very badly written and is gonna really annoy people.

Agreed, but its really the only way I could think of to write most of it. I'm not good at being non-combative.

[Sonshu]

You can be as combative with me as you like - bud - I don't take offence easy!

The sence with locks being used as restraints is a good one - however I only use them as restraints if I have the time to think of it - I use them to do muscle and bone damage and have done.

However when you are in a lock (done right like any technique) it hurts like ^&*^ so you wanna comply. I use them to take people out as it looks better in court than kicking the guy in the face. It is easier to say I put him in a restraint hold and he struggled - thats why he broke his arm your honour. Rather than I span and kicked his teeth in, this was self defence mr judge - I hope you see my point on this as the law is often a point overlooked by strikers.

Drills may be different and it had some chokes etc. However it is hard to say that it is different as all the stuff on the site to me looks like TKD. High kicks etc, the chokes were good though and nice to see them used, but to an outsider looking in it looks like TKD, and I have done some TKD and it does look very much like it.

For the statement that it is a complete style it has to cover weapons, awareness and locks, grappling (both standing and ground) to be fully complete. I agree in ending what begins standing up still standing but there are many factors to consider not just the striking.

SONSHU

[morphus]

This is why i stated "So here is what attracted [ME] to CKD in the first place."

I'm not speaking for the organisation.

Some people IN CKD will tell you, the official(U.S) diplomatic skills could be handled better.

CKD is not a complete style...no way!

[Sonshu]

It is good that you are honest enough to say you do not endorse what they have written. Most people in any style are afraid to question things as they believe thats the way we do it so thats how I will do it.

It is the fear of being on your own and also the pressure of an institution that makes people follow blindly.

Its good to see your are not 100% behind it and open to the problems it could cause.

SONSHU

[LilBunnyRabbit]

The sence with locks being used as restraints is a good one - however I only use them as restraints if I have the time to think of it - I use them to do muscle and bone damage and have done.

To be fair though it has to be admitted its easier to punch someone in the nose, and break it, than it is to catch their arm, twist it, and break that. I agree that locks are nice, but when you're beginning in martial arts I think being taught locks can be a little pointless.


However when you are in a lock (done right like any technique) it hurts like ^&*^ so you wanna comply. I use them to take people out as it looks better in court than kicking the guy in the face. It is easier to say I put him in a restraint hold and he struggled - thats why he broke his arm your honour. Rather than I span and kicked his teeth in, this was self defence mr judge - I hope you see my point on this as the law is often a point overlooked by strikers.

I have actually heard of juries letting people off for striking techniques, whereas if you've actually got someone in a restraint already, and then claim that they struggled so you broke their arm, they might well look down on you. A striking technique can always be self-defense, causing harm once you've already got someone subdued though is very rarely looked on as self-defense.


Drills may be different and it had some chokes etc. However it is hard to say that it is different as all the stuff on the site to me looks like TKD. High kicks etc, the chokes were good though and nice to see them used, but to an outsider looking in it looks like TKD, and I have done some TKD and it does look very much like it.

The high kicks are purely for show, since it has to be said that to the average person on the street they do look impressive. There are actually only three kicks that come to mind which are intended to be targetted above waist height, all of which are higher-level techniques. There are also a much wider range, and much more concentration on, hand techniques. Having done both TKD and CKD I can assure you that they are incredibly different. As Morphus said, the US publicity skills could do with a little work.


For the statement that it is a complete style it has to cover weapons, awareness and locks, grappling (both standing and ground) to be fully complete. I agree in ending what begins standing up still standing but there are many factors to consider not just the striking.

Agreed, and we cover dealing with attackers with the basic two weapons (knive and stick, teaching people to handle guns is generally accepted as a bad idea unless you're teaching experts). There's a lot of awareness work, at all levels. Getting out of locks and holds (the most common attacks with them at least) is also taught, but more as a framework to work from than as 'you do this when they do this in order to follow up with this...and so on'.

[morphus]

Most people in any style are afraid to question things as they believe thats the way we do it so thats how I will do it.

Damn, never thought of that ....i retract my statement:D :D ;)


naaaaaaa...!

[Sonshu]

As I guess you guys have done it before.

To be fair though it has to be admitted its easier to punch someone in the nose, and break it, than it is to catch their arm, twist it, and break that. I agree that locks are nice, but when you're beginning in martial arts I think being taught locks can be a little pointless.

This is a reality check for locking techniques. You will be lucky to catch a normal punch! Push more like or a GRAB, this is the trick, you teach new students the grab senario for locks and build on that. Been doing them for over a decade, it is more luck than skill to catch a punch from a general fight situation yet anyone can punch to a basic degree we see it all the time outside clubs and pubs. However the lock could have stopped the row inside the club rather that letting it move into a brawl outside.

The conception you have of locks is I would say a poor one as catching punches is hard, trapping the arm is easier and lock from there.

I have actually heard of juries letting people off for striking techniques, whereas if you've actually got someone in a restraint already, and then claim that they struggled so you broke their arm, they might well look down on you. A striking technique can always be self-defense, causing harm once you've already got someone subdued though is very rarely looked on as self-defense.

The trick comes from how obvious your technique is, close in locking is the way I was taught, to conceal the technique, to most people he grabbed you and then he hurt is writs. Sorry your honour I dont know what happened, my wrist hurts too, we were just tussling and I was trying to get the nutter off. I did get let off with striking someone, however I wont use a closed fist again as this is frowned upon. The lock if put on as a restraint will do the trick if its on. As I said earlier anyone can throw a punch and it is more obvious to bystanders who smacked who and CCTV.

The rest is honest and good - work with locks though if not for your sake then your students or the other guy. Nobody ever died from a wrist or arm lock - the punch though!

SONSHU

[LilBunnyRabbit]

The rest is honest and good - work with locks though if not for your sake then your students or the other guy. Nobody ever died from a wrist or arm lock - the punch though!

Infighting techniques, which include locks and takedowns, we work from the opponent grabbing you, so it seems we do actually agree on this.

[Sonshu]

It was dismissed earlier as not being of too much use.

It is vital to cover this sort of stuff as it works best on the street rather than the dojo.

At least in the dojo you know where the pain is coming from so the mind is a little more aware. I always find techniques I am not expecting hurt more!

Same on the street.

SONSHU

[Freeform]

Uh oh, here we go, its CKD II: The Prodigal Returns! ;)

[Sonshu]

No not at all as I think all the shouty stuff was sorted on the first one. There are things that should be added to it but it depends on the school more than the style.

I think locks are vital for a self defence system. They said some schools do it.

I would just go to thoes ones and not the others.

SONSHU

[morphus]

In my paricular school there was a lack of locks and groundwork, thats why i took up JU JITSU........it does depend on what school is nearest or more to the point what instructor.

i know for a fact that CKD students teacher is very knowledgable in other arts and teaches what he thinks is necessary, e.g knife and stick defence and locks inc'.

There is also an instructor who mixes CKD with Krav Maga in New Zealand i believe....he recently came over to share in CKD style and he has a great knowledge of spec ops with the forces.

At the CORE of CKD there is great thesis to which one can add anything one wants. It is not complete by any means, The trouble lies in what was written to get the art noticed originally at its inaugaration. Personally i don't listen to those claims anymore, i know what it has to offer AND what it doesn't!

I would suggest that some how we get a seminar together for people who are only listening to the published hype......This however takes a great deal organising, maybe someday.

I would recommend not only seeing it in action but trying it(more than one average lesson); it's not for everyone but at least you'll see and know for yourselves what it's really about.

[Jamo]

Originally posted by wrathchild
hey, i'm new to the forum and I was wondering if anyone has had to use their martial art on the street. I do choi kwang do, and they claim that it is very effective on the street, but ive never had to use it.

Oy Gevalt!!!

It seems that any particular forum topic can turn into any other topic...sheesh!!!

To answer your original question, Wrathchild...

I don't have any experience in CKD...and by the way it's been talked about in this forum, I'm afraid to read the CKD discussions...but I will assume that your style, as well as the many others out there, have effective self-defense applications. When it comes down to it, though, it is the practitioner, and not the martial art, that makes for effective self-defense. I know many people, in various martial arts, that I have trained with that would be able to defend themselves out of a wet paper sack...including black belt-leveled people (unfortunately). They couldn't overcome the fear that arose when they are really put to the test. Defeating your own fear is the best way to effectively defend yourself, no matter what style you practice. Practice hard, test yourself continuously...this is how you can start in your quest for effective self-defense.

Jamo

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see it's path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."

-- The Bene Gesserit Litany of Fear
Dune by Frank Herbert