UK Speed Limit.

[Andy Murray]

OK, Motorways in the UK have a maximum speed limit of 70 MPH.

I'm interested to know if anyone thinks it should be higher or lower?

(Bear in mind that this limit was set nearly 40 years ago, and roads are better (if busier) and cars are better, with ABS brakes, crumple zones, driver cages etc etc)

[Fergie Boy]

drivers are probably worse though and I wouldn't trust the judgement of one tenth of the people tjhat are out therer driving just now.

[YODA]

the limit should definately be lifted - I'd say lift it to 90 but then enforce it more.

At 70 my car is happiest in 3rd gear!!!

[Bon]

haha, what car do you drive YODA?

I would be in fifth gear in my car. :rolleyes:

[pgm316]

I voted for 70! ;)

I would like to drive as I see fit, but does that mean everybody else does, sounds too worrying. How many @ss clowns will see fit to drive as fast as their heap will go whatever the traffic/conditions are like!?

I usually keep under 100 myself :D Which makes me sound like a hypocrite, but, thats only when its quite enough.

Andy, don't forget what the roads were like 40 years ago, a lot quieter without the rush hour madness.

[johndoch]

It aint gonna happen.

Motorways may be better but they are still designed to a design speed of 120 kph and if you raised the speed limit then almost every motorway would become sub-standard. This doesnt just include the alignment of the route but also signs, stopping sight distances etc.

This would instantly make loads of roads unsafe from a design aspect and the cost to raise the standards would be to great. I suppose you could pay for it by putting speed cameras everywhere.

Who drives at 70mph anyway :)

[Freeform]

A little bit faster would be okay.

Col

[johndoch]

I think no matter what speed limit you put down everyone will drive just that little bit faster anyway.

[pgm316]

A good argument for leaving it at 70 Doc!

[Sammy]

The majority of people drive faster than 70 anyway, so it would be nice not to have to worry about seeing the flash of speed cameras. Also on the continent where speed limits are higher, there are in general less accident. Only problem is that the ones they do have tend to be a little more fatal!

However I'm all for a higher speed limit, means I could get an extra five minutes sleep in the morning before heading to uni.

[johndoch]

you can quote that the continent has lower accident rates but you have got to remember the weather in britain is wetter there are more days where there may be ice or snow on the road. So cant you argue that british roads will be safer with higher speed limits. The british also have more cars than a lot of euro countries so there will obviously more accidents

You may think that driving faster will get you somewhere quicker but in reality you wont save any time as journey times especially at peak traffic time are determined by the amount of time you sit in slow moving traffic at roundabouts etc.

[YODA]

Originally posted by Bon
haha, what car do you drive YODA?

I would be in fifth gear in my car. :rolleyes:

I drive this.... my Dinan chipped BMW 525i SE :D

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/images/personal/bimmer2.jpg

[gingerninja]

80-85mph is fine but they would have to get rid of the 10% + 2 rule.

[YODA]

There is NO 10% +2 "rule" :D

[BlackRaven]

Does anybody know any facts on stopping distances. Just wonderd, because you learn them when taking your test, but surely different size/weight vehicles would have different stopping distances. And surely modern technology would have reduced them from what they where originally set at. Even peoples reaction times could have reduced slightly I suppose from evolution (though not much if any in such a short period of time). I suppose it is better to say the stopping time is longer than it actually is though.

[KickChick]

Hey is this true???
Britain wants to put tracking devices on all cars (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2003391098,00.html)

:p

[Jack]

Deby...

Big Brother is watching us. :(:D

Jack

[Chazz]

I dont live there but if i did ide like to be able to drive faster

[Patrick Bateman]

I think the limit should be increased, but have variable enforceable limits based on the time of day/traffic conditions.

For example lowering the speed limit to 50 mph in busy rush hour conditions and then a higher limit when traffic is light, increasing it to a max of 90 mph or so.

In relation to driving standards, there should be a motorway test i think, if you dont pass it then you should be limited to non motorway driving.

[Tireces]

Well, I know the limits over here in the US are more like 55, but people still go around 70 regardless.

[YODA]

Originally posted by Tireces
Well, I know the limits over here in the US are more like 55, but people still go around 70 regardless.

That's part of the problem - our limit is 70 and people go 90-100 regardless. I've been on motorways here doing 90 just to keep up and be in the "flow" while people in the outside lane routinely rush past at 100-110 or more.

Type of vehicle is a factor too - 100 in my car feels very easy with plenty to spare and very safe - 80 in my wifes car feels like the wheels are about to fall off.

[Bon]

Buy the woman a car then! Jeez :D

[YODA]

She's got a car - an ideal "carry kids to school and run on fumes" car :D

[stump]

It bugs me how many people seem to think the answer to road safely is dropping speed.

Speed per se is not a problem....inappropriate speed and dangerous driving are the problems.

[Silver_no2]

I think that we should adopt the system that the Germans use of no speed limit but sensible distancing. The road conditions there are no different to Britain, in fact the weather is worse during the winter, so that point is moot.

The signs will not have to be changed in my opinion. Given that most motorists already do over the speed limit it is clearly not too much of a factor.

I think that the key thing is driving safely rather than slowly. I know good drivers who are better at 90mph than some drivers are at 60mph. Tests should include a motorway driving section as it is entirely different from town driving.

That's my tuppence worth! :D

[johndoch]

*sigh*

Whats all the rush???:(

The fact is, that highways design standards are designed above the national speed limit as it is. so if you raise the speed limit then signs will naturally need to be raised because if people died then the government would instantly be sued for not raising the design standards.

It costs too much it wont happen. I suppose if it did it would keep me very busy:D

[Silver_no2]

If we only stuck to things that will happen then half of MAP would be redundant! :D

[Cain]

Hmm.....never been to the UK before....Andy feels the need to question the speed limit....admit it Andy, they caught you driving badly did'nt they? :D

|Cain|

[oni]

Should be no speed limits, but the punishment for reckless driving ought to be extremely severe.

[rigsville]

Originally posted by YODA
Type of vehicle is a factor too - 100 in my car feels very easy with plenty to spare and very safe - 80 in my wifes car feels like the wheels are about to fall off.

I know what you mean, I ride a motorcycle, (Triumph) at around 100 my bike feels the same, safe, comfortable, with more power on tap to get you out (or in) of trouble.

My wifes car at 80 feels like it all over the road, but then again I dislike cars (sorry YODA) and love bikes.

[YODA]

Touche :D

Sadly - I had to sell her recently :woo:

(The bike not the wife)

[Cain]

Goddamn goody lord!!! :eek::eek::eek:

***THUD!!!***

(Sound of jaw hitting the floor!)

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by cain_charlie
Hmm.....never been to the UK before....Andy feels the need to question the speed limit....admit it Andy, they caught you driving badly did'nt they? :D

|Cain|

Difference between badly and illegally Cain.

I'm awaiting a Court Date for speeding as we speak. :(

(See earlier comments about Traffic Cops in the 'Rant' Column)

It wouldn't be such an issue if the Police didn't make so much money out of their Speed Cameras.

It's interesting to see all the 'fake' roadworks with no work being done on them, but a speed camera reducing speed to 40mph, where it should be 70mph.

It's interesting to see the 'mobile' detection units, placed at spots motorists are likely to speed.
Accident blackspots?
Yeah right!
They're on the safest, straightest stretches of motorway.
i.e. Where they make the most money in fines.

What's safer?
An 82 year old who putts about town going through red lights, failing to indicate consistently at 10 mph, or someone doing 45,000 miles per year, who occasionally breaks the speed limit while driving appropriately to the road conditions and visibility, due to the realities of motorway driving?

Re: John Docs comments. Not sure what your job is John, but by my understanding, the 70mph limit was brought in after the first motorways in the UK were built, and cars/drivers have evolved since then.

Speed itself is not the cause of an accident, merely a factor.

In my humble opinion the UK Law fails to take into consideration sufficient factor regarding road safety.

[Cain]

Gee! This is serious :eek:

To a court for speeding??? Move over to India, no one will touch you even for stomping on a cop's foot ;)

In here though 60 KPH is the limit though you will occasionally come across people [me :D] going upto 80 KPH

On normal roads though ie not highways the limit is 40 KPH

But then the roads are MUCH narrower and occupied unlike the superways and broad roads in the UK....

|Cain|

[YODA]

Up to 80kph?

Careful there Cain LOL!

Ahem ..... I remember doing 165mph (266Kph) up the M6 Motorway on my beloved Kawasaki beastie (sob sob - those were the days)

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.........

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by YODA

Ahem ..... I remember doing 165mph (266Kph) up the M6 Motorway on my beloved Kawasaki beastie (sob sob - those were the days)



Ah.

It was you I passed then. :D

[YODA]

LOL! Probably - but not in your Mondeo :D

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by YODA
LOL! Probably - but not in your Mondeo :D

Must've been the Daewoo Nubira then. :p

[Holgate]

70 is just fine for the time being, even with all this rubbish of ABS, crumple zones etc there are still alot of cars on the road that don't have all this stuff...so for the time being 70mph is more than enough

It also has to be remember the police won't actually stop you for speeding on the UK motorway until you are at 86mph, even then if you a bit over and considered to be keeping the traffic flow moving and driving safely you may well get away with it.

Even on urban roads the 30mph is flexiable except near schools below 36 and you'll get a wrist slap from the police, above and you'll get a court summons.

What does need to be enforced on the motorways is tha amount of HGV and PCV vehicles doing over their 50/60mph limit and overtaking in the third lane. I have been oven taken may times by busses and lorrys while doing 70/75 and even 80 by a lorry or bus...and you just know they ae having to push 90 to get past you...where are the police then!

Caravans are also another pain in the arse, in this end of the country the M5 is constantly being brought to a halt because some eejit brummie or cockney loses control of their car and flips their caravan into the central reservation because they are driving too fast and don't know how to tow one of their bloody grockle boxes properly. Where is the driving test which says to them they should hold a license to tow one of those things....HGV drivers need it to drive an articulate so why not apply that to caravans as well.

[Tosh]

Originally posted by Holgate
Where is the driving test which says to them they should hold a license to tow one of those things....HGV drivers need it to drive an articulate so why not apply that to caravans as well.

If you passed your test before 1997 (UK) you are legal to drive a whole plethora of things you would imagine require specialist training... or at least 5 minutes practice :D

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Holgate
70 is just fine for the time being, even with all this rubbish of ABS, crumple zones etc there are still alot of cars on the road that don't have all this stuff...so for the time being 70mph is more than enough

It also has to be remember the police won't actually stop you for speeding on the UK motorway until you are at 86mph, even then if you a bit over and considered to be keeping the traffic flow moving and driving safely you may well get away with it.

Even on urban roads the 30mph is flexiable except near schools below 36 and you'll get a wrist slap from the police, above and you'll get a court summons.



Where are you getting your information from Holgate. Seems like we live on a different planet entirely

[Knight_Errant]

as a lumpen prole, I would have to travel at the speed of the bus. But the 70mph speed limit on motorways was made for the days when cars were dinky little creations with no windscreens, all the controls on the gearstick and drivers still wore goggles. My dad tells me no way in hell am I ever having his italian racing red sports car. Oh well, I'll have to stick to less polluting modes of transport, as I should :)

[johndoch]

I dont know when the 70 mph speed limit was introduced but the fact of the matter is, the faster the speed involved in an accident the more likely a fatality will occur.

I doesn't help when you have vehicles that can top 140+mph sharing carriageways with vehicles like HGV's, caravans etc that struggle above 70mph especially when slow vehicles do move onto the overtaking lane. Thats a recipe for disaster.

btw Andy Iam a civil engineer working in highways design:confused:

[David]

I want to drive as I see fit; I want to drive with elan, skill and in the sweet spot of the beautiful machinery available. Just like the Police, racers and certified advanced motorists when noone's looking.

Ah, the blessed motor vehicle :) I love the WarpSpeed effect when you reach 115mph and all other traffic appears stationary. I cannot remember the last time I was overtaken on a dual-carriageway or motorway; it just does not happen. Except motorbikes, of course. Damn, why's my car so fat?

My ex invented a name for the little cars: they're called biscuit tins. "If that muppet in the biscuit-tin doesn't get out of the outside lane, I'm going to overtake her on the inside".

One of my favourites, apart from warpspeed, is hills. Going up a hill is the last place you'll find a speed camera and my car loves hills like nothing else.

When I had more spare cash, I used to drive to train in two other towns each week. Always, I drove home faster than on the way because of the kungfu buzz. This desire to max out on the driving experience comes from my father and his fine appreciation of the same thing. He was big into bikes including racing and stunts and my middle name Vincent comes from his favourite possession - the Vincent Black Prince - which held some kind of speed record for many years.

I'll drive as fast as I can see and I will drive slower if there's a reason. I have lots of time for equestrians, cyclists and pedestrians and I'll give them a wide berth and low revs. It's just, on the open road, I want to go supersonic. BTW, I am not an adrenaline addict, just appreciate a nice engine tone and can't stand wasting my time.

Obviously, with these tendencies, I've cultivated a fairly mellow attitude towards possible frustration. If I didn't I'd be having heart attacks every day. Living in Plymouth has helped with that. Here, pedestrian families walk 10-abreast and can't see you trying to get by (even in the opposite direction) until long after you say "excuse me"

Andy, give em hell in court. ;) I know I wouldn't but the time's right for a martyr to the cause. Maybe the camera picked up on your acceleration rather than your actual speed - there's no law against 0-60 in 1 second so long as you do it in a controlled manner ;)

rgds,
David

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by johndoch


btw Andy Iam a civil engineer working in highways design:confused:

So you spend a large proportion of your time driving the motorways?

Interviewing drivers?

Researching the history of motorway driving in the UK?

After all, this is all good data for designing roads?

btw, the original motorways had no speed limit. Speed limits were introduced as a knock on effect of new techniques in mass car production, increasing traffic volume on the roads, as well as poorly built cars.

[johndoch]

"So you spend a large proportion of your time driving the motorways?"

Given most roads in Scotland are single/dual carriageway I tend to drive those. Only worked on one motorway that was in Ireland. After they opened it they found it was being used by horse carts
:confused:

"Interviewing drivers?"

Nah the general public only want to get there as quick as possible regardless. :D

"Researching the history of motorway driving in the UK?"

I'll leave that to the geeks:)

"After all, this is all good data for designing roads?"

I agree but the amount of things that are considered is shocking. I worked on a job where we were to knock someones house and business down to save about 20m squared of saltmarsh because the birds needed it even though the saltmarsh was manmade in the first place and 20m^2 was only .5% of the habitat.

"btw, the original motorways had no speed limit. Speed limits were introduced as a knock on effect of new techniques in mass car production, increasing traffic volume on the roads, as well as poorly built cars."

I never knew that where did you find this out??

[Tosh]

Personally, I would mirror the German system of having no speed limit on the motorway.

This would be as well as as a hardline for speeders in a built up area especially outside schools. Instant ban, regardless of excuse.

Also would like to see periodic re-testing of drivers, perhaps every 10 years??

I have to update my first aid skills why shouldn't I have to re-test for driving a killing machine on the roads???

Just ma 0.02

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by johndoch
"So you spend a large proportion of your time driving the motorways?"

1/ Given most roads in Scotland are single/dual carriageway I tend to drive those. Only worked on one motorway that was in Ireland. After they opened it they found it was being used by horse carts
:confused:

"Interviewing drivers?"

2/ Nah the general public only want to get there as quick as possible regardless. :D

"Researching the history of motorway driving in the UK?"

3/ I'll leave that to the geeks:)

"After all, this is all good data for designing roads?"

4/ I agree but the amount of things that are considered is shocking. I worked on a job where we were to knock someones house and business down to save about 20m squared of saltmarsh because the birds needed it even though the saltmarsh was manmade in the first place and 20m^2 was only .5% of the habitat.

"btw, the original motorways had no speed limit. Speed limits were introduced as a knock on effect of new techniques in mass car production, increasing traffic volume on the roads, as well as poorly built cars."

5/ I never knew that where did you find this out??


1/ OK, not gonna flame you John, but this is what I mean, you're passing judgement when you don't actually drive on the motorways.

2/ Of course they do. That general public being made up of individuals just like you or me. The ones that pay taxes to the government which include a percentage dedicated to the upkeep and progress of the nations road network. Your own wages perhaps? you don't really dismiss the opinion of the public do you?

3/ I'd be interested to see if the 'geeks' as you call them, know any more than you do about it all.

4/ Seems to me it's the important things that are not getting considered. Adverse road cambers, varying road surfaces/qualities, inconsistency of road signs, volume of heavy transport traffic........the list goes on.

5/ TV documentary, history of the UK motorway.

[johndoch]

1) I drive on the motorways probably as much as the next person so i do know what they're like I just dont design them

2) Yep but its gettin the government to put money into it then you get environmentalist telling you not too. they want money invested in public transport. Interviewing people is just a small part of the process.

3) Historys all well and good but you'll find that future traffic growths are just as important

4) I disagree with this I think the 20 volume design manuals got most things covered. Its down to the individual designers to cover all the above points and more.

5) Sad thing is I'd probably watch that too:D

Oh man on a MA site and I end up talking about work :(

[Andy Murray]

I dunno John,
one minute you're qualifying your opinion by stating that you are a Civil Engineer working on road design, and then you wash your hands of responsibility by saying you leave all the research up to the 'geeks'.
Then you say you don't have more than two lane roads in Scotland, but now contradict yourself by saying you drive on motorways as much as the next person?
Sounds to me like I found the one of the problems
The people making the roads just do what they're told, questioning nothing. As with every other Government funded authority, noone ever consults Joe P.

[johndoch]

I said I work on single/dual trunk roads that doesnt mean I dont drive on 3 lane motorways such as the M8, thats not a contradiction.

I dont wash my hands of research cause Iam not paid to research just design roads btw geeks was a joke.

"Sounds to me like I found the one of the problems
The people making the roads just do what they're told, questioning nothing. As with every other Government funded authority, noone ever consults Joe P."

Even though I said public consultation is part of the process you seem to ignore this fact. Every new trunk road has a public consultation. Letters are sent to directly affected parties and public exhibitions are held after advertisements are put in local and national newspapers. I generally find that any public exhibitions I have been to have been very poorly attended by the public. So should they not be held? because people speak a good game but when the opportunity arises for them to come forward in writing or in person they dont seem to bother.

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by johndoch


Even though I said public consultation is part of the process you seem to ignore this fact. Every new trunk road has a public consultation. Letters are sent to directly affected parties and public exhibitions are held after advertisements are put in local and national newspapers. I generally find that any public exhibitions I have been to have been very poorly attended by the public. So should they not be held? because people speak a good game but when the opportunity arises for them to come forward in writing or in person they dont seem to bother.

You're missing the point. It's the road users you need to consult with, not it's neighbours. As to advertising public discussions in newspapers, tell me? Do you read the ads section in a newspaper? Maybe I just saved you guys a whole lot of wasted money there.

How do you get the M8 to be a 3 lane motorway? There's a very short section southbound near Bathgate where it momentarily get's up to three lanes due to a filter lane, then four and five lanes at Glasgow for the same reason, but it's more of a Dual Carriageway than a motorway.

[johndoch]

So how would you get joe public to give his opinion?

Irrespective of the number of lanes the M8 is classed as a motorway and there are a number sections that are 3 lanes but granted I agree its a bit of a glorified dual carriageway.

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by johndoch
So how would you get joe public to give his opinion?



I just did.

Anything else you and the boys in the office want to know?

Maybe you guys need me to test drive a few of your roads for you and give you marks out of ten? :D

Especially if you're involved in the A77/M77 deathtrap.

[johndoch]

Anything else you and the boys in the office want to know?

LOL, wheres the money for all this???

ye never know could be a future career for you test driving roads. Just make sure theres a nice ferrari in the contract :-)

Especially if you're involved in the A77/M77 deathtrap

Yeah its a bad road and they should never have been allowed to leave it half finished after completing the new section at Glasgow. I believe they have started working on this now. About time

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by johndoch
[B]LOL, wheres the money for all this???



Scrap your newspaper ads and give me the money instead!

Sorted!

Though really it should come from The Road Tax, Emissions Tax, Income Tax etc etc that I pay the government already.

Just think of all the extra revenue you'll have when they introduce Congestion charges and Toll roads throughout the UK.

Me, I'm off to get a Horse and change my name to Dick Turpen. There's progress for you.

[johndoch]

LOL

I think the government already fills the dick turpin post.

[Knight_Errant]

Scrap your newspaper ads and give me the money instead!
Damn straight Mr. M!
P.s. If we both rob the same limo, I agree to split the loot 50/50 :D

[Tosh]

Originally posted by johndoch
LOL

I think the government already fills the dick turpin post.

and here's me thinking they'd changed thier last name to Heads!

[Tosh]

After reading various reports and inspired by latest events (including a certain Mr Murray's rant).

I wanted to raise the following question(s):

"Now that speeding tickets/offences are on the increase, do you believe the stigma of being caught speeding has changed?? For example, is it now more acceptable to be caught speeding now in the UK?? Are people considered "unlucky" because they were "caught" regardless of the area they speed in??

Has the speed camera's had the opposite effect?? Speeding is now seen as less of a crime since more people are being caught??

Are HARSHER penalties for speeding (in towns and cities in particular) more appropriate??"

Bombs away! :D

[Andy Murray]

Originally posted by Tosh


Are HARSHER penalties for speeding (in towns and cities in particular) more appropriate??"


Yes they are!

Driving without control and consideraion about town where pedestrians are the potential victims should be the main priority, not raising revenue for Doughnut party's.

[David]

Remember recently the organ transplant ambulance that went to court about going 104mph? Police relented in the end...

Nuff said.

Just a force for generating revenue. I don't sense my community benfitting from such policing.

Rgds,
David