What Is True Art of Hapkido?

[American HKD]

Greetings,

For educational purposes I would like to clarify what the True Art of Hapkido or Original Hapkido is? There are many misconceptions floating around the MA world.

1. Hapkido is the Martial Art ( Yawara/Daito Ryu) Choi Yong Sool brought back from Japan and taught in Korea Post WWII.

2. Kicks and some weapons work like the cane were added by Ji Han Jae and they have become a valid tradition of the Art. By the late 1950, early 1960 Hapkido did indeed have a set curriculum.

3. True Hapkido is NOT however and eclectic art of anything goes and dozens of different sytles.

4. Traditionally there were many Kwans (Schools) started by 1st generation Masters each had a different name but all were teaching the same Art. Most of these Kwans were in fact students of Ji Han Jae teaching his curriculum from Sung Moo Kwan. It should be noted some of Choi's high ranking students kept Choi's exact system without the added kicks or weapons.

5. The Kwans were NOT different styles of Hapkido but something like saying Joe's Hapkido School or Flying Eagle Hapkido School nothing more, however the Kwan tradition is very important to many traditionalists.

6. Lineage is also a very important factor that establishes an unbroken chain of tradition back to the original source of the Art. Today many claim rights to Hapkido but have no such lineage at all. These people may know a some Hapkido from here or there but but it's doubtfull they're REAL Hapkido Instructors or Masters.

7. There are many break off systems but that's not "True Hapkido" but an alternate version in which a person decided I want to teach something other than the original Hapkido curriculum, so they added, subtracted or changed the system. These systems are now like MMA or similar and cannot be classified as True Hapkido.

It's unfortunate in my veiw anyone can use the name Hapkido for thier own purposes, because a students could exspect Hapkido buts get some sort of MMA without even knowing it from someone who never learned Hapkido.

:)

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

Might we also add that there is an important qualification of lineage and rank? Or have these two items become unimportant in the modern lexicon of thinking about Hapkido?

[American HKD]

Hello all,

Might we also add that there is an important qualification of lineage and rank? Or have these two items become unimportant in the modern lexicon of thinking about Hapkido?

Sorry I indeed left that out but edited the post in time.

[iron_ox]

Hello Stuart,

So you did, didn't mean to preempt you. :)

[kevinyusul]

Hi ,

Hapkido has its roots in Daito Ryu, unfortunatly modern Hapkido as we know it and learn it today is only a mix between Taekwondo and Aikido. All of the self defense techniques are just a bastardised version of the Aikido techniques not done with proper unbalancing or Aiki or strength.

Because of this a lot of the Hapkido instructors needing to fill the void turn to Aikido to gain a better understanding of what they are doing

Kevin :)

[iron_ox]

Hi ,

Hapkido has its roots in Daito Ryu, unfortunatly modern Hapkido as we know it and learn it today is only a mix between Taekwondo and Aikido. All of the self defense techniques are just a bastardised version of the Aikido techniques not done with proper unbalancing or Aiki or strength.

Because of this a lot of the Hapkido instructors needing to fill the void turn to Aikido to gain a better understanding of what they are doing

Kevin :)

Hi Kevin,

Great name, by the way. And nice first post... Are you saying that Hapkido is Taekwondo and Aikido seriously or as a metaphor of some kind?

You are absolutely correct to say that Hapkido has its roots in DaitoRyu (this is according to Choi himself - so since that one is currently tough to verify, lets let it slide for a minute here and take him at his word).

And furthermore, it is true that there are altogether too many people that have mixed a bunch of stuff together, including some Aikido and TaeKwonDo (both fine systems on their own merit) at times and call it Hapkido. However, there are many practioners of Hapkido that were senior students of Choi and Ji that teach the traditional root of the style.

Choi, Yong Sul promoted three men to 9th dan, and all still teach. Grandmaster Lim, Hyun Soo and Grandmaster Kim, Yun Sang are in South Korea, and Dojunim Chang, Chin Il is in New York City. Grandmaster Lim has a network of instructors in the United States, primarily on the east coast and one in the mid-west ( :) ).

Dojunim Ji, Han Jae (who founded the Sung Moo Kwan in 1959 and Sin MuHapkido in 1980) is by far the most prolific instructor and grader in the world. Fully 80% - 85% frankly maybe even more, of the world's Hapkido instructors are from his direct lineage. Many of these instructors claim Choi as their teacher, when infact they were taught by Ji directly and perhaps saw Choi at seminars. Ji, with the help of Kim Moo Woong added most of the kicks seen today in most Hapkido schools as well as additional weapons techniques and some Taoist style philosophy. I BELIEVE (but could be wrong) that Ji has said that he changed the hand techniques he learned from Choi very little if at all.

Anyway, just a quick blurb here, but there really are traditional Hapkido teachers out there.

Hope that helps clear up any misconceptions. :)

[wild_pitch]

everybody knows that much like religion what *THEY PERSONALLY* study is the one true path.

right iron ox and american HKD?

as for using the term eclectic... do you use throws, punches, joint locks and a few kicks? even at its most traditional i think hapkido is more eclectic than many other arts. i don't really understand why you have such a problem with this.

[Thomas]

I can appreciate that for some people the lineage and history of an art can be a very important iussue to look at when choosing a system.

For other people, finding a quality school that teaches a practical effecient system is a higher priority. Some of the school with a "great lineage" are indeed superb... and a bit hard to find. Other schools with a "good lineage" are not that good, often relying on the name to sell it. Having a good name does not ensure quality at all times. There are some young schools who don't have a big lineage built up that are really good as well.

As a student of Hapkido, I recommend that other Hapkido students and potential students take a look at their prospective schools and try them out before they commit. Keep in mind that a good lineage is a nice thing, but one also needs to make sure that the quality of instruction is good too.

As historians and students of a style, I think sometimes we can get too caught up in names... and not caught up enough of learning, sharing, teaching, and training. (And, it's not just Hapkido... take a look at the CMA forum some time!)

Moo Sool

[iron_ox]

Hello Wild Pitch,

Its not that I have a problem with the term eclectic - but it does not apply to Hapkido. Eclectic is a term used (generally) for martial arts that draw on a variety of different sources for their techniques. This is not the case in Hapkido, as I would argue it. Hapkido is drawn from a single source.

The only other question that your well worded post brings to mind is why is Hapkido considered so unlike every other martial art in the world? They all use lineage, succession, and rank to determine structure, and when someone goes outside this structure, they rename it and go their own way. I feel that this is the same in Hapkido - when someone leaves the path of Choi - or more commonly Ji, most often they rename what they do and go on, but some want to cling to the name Hapkido even though they do not teach from this tradition. Further, this is more problematic when someone just adopts the name Hapkido even thought they have no connection to said hierarchy.

That's all I'm trying to get across.

With respect. :)

[iron_ox]

I can appreciate that for some people the lineage and history of an art can be a very important iussue to look at when choosing a system.

For other people, finding a quality school that teaches a practical effecient system is a higher priority. Some of the school with a "great lineage" are indeed superb... and a bit hard to find. Other schools with a "good lineage" are not that good, often relying on the name to sell it. Having a good name does not ensure quality at all times. There are some young schools who don't have a big lineage built up that are really good as well.

As a student of Hapkido, I recommend that other Hapkido students and potential students take a look at their prospective schools and try them out before they commit. Keep in mind that a good lineage is a nice thing, but one also needs to make sure that the quality of instruction is good too.

As historians and students of a style, I think sometimes we can get too caught up in names... and not caught up enough of learning, sharing, teaching, and training. (And, it's not just Hapkido... take a look at the CMA forum some time!)

Moo Sool


Agreed! :)

[American HKD]

Greetings,

Thomas said something very true and that is, it's very hard to find Authentic Hapkido in general. There are not that many schools that teach it, sometimes only one or two in a major city let alone the smaller towns.

And I agree many people don't care what they learn as long as it helps them meet thier goals. Hapkido is not for everyone because it's hard, it evolves some pain and contact. Many people like Karate/TKD because of the limited contact except for sparring most of which is very light contact or point style anyway.

For me my goal is simple to hopefully educate more people in understanding what Original Hapkido is from it's eclectic MMA spin offs.

:)

[Thomas]

For me my goal is simple to hopefully educate more people in understanding what Original Hapkido is from it's eclectic MMA spin offs.

:)

Nice post.
So, if a person came to you and said "How do I tell if this is a good quality school with the proper lineage?", what kinds of questions would you arm him/her with to ask the school owner? What would you tell them to expect to see and experience within the school? Could you make a basic "checklist"?

[American HKD]

Nice post.
So, if a person came to you and said "How do I tell if this is a good quality school with the proper lineage?", what kinds of questions would you arm him/her with to ask the school owner? What would you tell them to expect to see and experience within the school? Could you make a basic "checklist"?

Thomas good questions!

Check list

1. Who did you study with?
2. Who did your teacher learn from?
These questions are to establish proper lineage of the Art, If the guy learned from another Art or Says his TKD Instructor taught him some HKD Hapkido Look Out!

2. Who certified you?
Is your rank from "Reconginzied Hapkido Association", or a generic MA Assoc. who ranks anybody from any style with little proof?

3. Does the teacher have an Instructor's Certification or Master Rank from a "Reconginzied Hapkido Association"?

What many people don't understand is a 1st, 2nd, Dan is only someone who just completed basic training. A 4th or 5th Dan is considered a Master in the KMA. There is a very big difference in quality between a 1,2, and a 4th, 5th Dan.

It's worth knowing these details to help insure you'll get quality instruction.

The rest might be something like:

Do you like the Instructor's attitude?
Is the facility nice?
Take a trial class see if you really like the Art?
Do the students look skilled?
Do the students look like there Happy?
Talk to the Students ask then what they like or don't like?

This list really goes for all MA and is important to know before joining any school or club IMO.

:)

[Jungkihapkido]

Thomas good questions!

Check list

1. Who did you study with?
2. Who did your teacher learn from?
These questions are to establish proper lineage of the Art, If the guy learned from another Art or Says his TKD Instructor taught him some HKD Hapkido Look Out!

2. Who certified you?
Is your rank from "Reconginzied Hapkido Association", or a generic MA Assoc. who ranks anybody from any style with little proof?

3. Does the teacher have an Instructor's Certification or Master Rank from a "Reconginzied Hapkido Association"?

What many people don't understand is a 1st, 2nd, Dan is only someone who just completed basic training. A 4th or 5th Dan is considered a Master in the KMA. There is a very big difference in quality between a 1,2, and a 4th, 5th Dan.

It's worth knowing these details to help insure you'll get quality instruction.

The rest might be something like:

Do you like the Instructor's attitude?
Is the facility nice?
Take a trial class see if you really like the Art?
Do the students look skilled?
Do the students look like there Happy?
Talk to the Students ask then what they like or don't like?

This list really goes for all MA and is important to know before joining any school or club IMO.

:)

Great list Master Rosenburg. The importance of who trained you relates to what you do and how you do it. To often people will call what they do Hapkido to gain from the growing interest in Traditional Hapkido from Choi or Ji without the grades to proove their training. Another very imprtant point is the quality of the Instructor and how they are able to teach and pass on what they have learned. Both are important.

Take care
Todd Miller
Korea Jungki Hapkido & Guhapdo Association
www.millersmudo.com

[Thomas]

Nice checklist!!!!

[Kosh]

unfortunatly modern Hapkido as we know it and learn it today is only a mix between Taekwondo and Aikido. All of the self defense techniques are just a bastardised version of the Aikido techniques not done with proper unbalancing or Aiki or strength.

speak for yourself. The Hapkido i learn is very different to Aikido and TKD. We use unbalancing alot but we also do techniques which dont use unbalancing, we dont 'rely' on unbalancing in many moves like aikido does i guess. Its not always needed. this is something i dont like about the Aikido ive seen.

Some moves have to be small and fast, if you swing someone in a big movement, which ive seen in most Aikido, they know and react (tighten) - if the move is tiny and fast, they cant react. The pain will either force them of balance or break something - either way is fine. The same with throws, Hapkido throws include throw similar to basic judo throws; but at a higher level these throws are also augmented with pain locks to add persuasion.

[Jungkihapkido]

We use unbalancing alot but we also do techniques which dont use unbalancing, we dont 'rely' on unbalancing in many moves like aikido does i guess. Its not always needed. this is something i dont like about the Aikido ive seen.

Without unbalencing there is no technique at all! Pain complience does not always work especially on those that have recieved these techniques for many years, the body gets conditioned to the pain. Original Hapkido = Off-balencing.

Hapkido IS NOT Aikido, Hapkido IS NOT Aikido with Taekwondo kicks. Hapkido is the Martial Art that Doju Nim Choi, Yong Sul brought back to Korea from Japan after studying for 30 years with Takeda Sokaku. I see so many differing ideas on what Hapkido is and is not. IMHO there are two main groups of Hapkidoin 1. DJN Chois original style 2. Ji, Han Jaes style that does many high kicks. These two are very different in theory especially when it comes to how kicks are used.

Just some thoughts.

www.millersmudo.com

[Jungkihapkido]

2. Kicks and some weapons work like the cane were added by Ji Han Jae and they have become a valid tradition of the Art. By the late 1950, early 1960 Hapkido did indeed have a set curriculum.

Doju Nim Choi actually taught 5 different weapons before GM Ji ever started Hapkido training.

Take care

www.millersmudo.com

[Kosh]

Without unbalencing there is no technique at all! Pain complience does not always work especially on those that have recieved these techniques for many years, the body gets conditioned to the pain. Original Hapkido = Off-balencing.

Depends in the technique. I didnt say hapkido relies solely on pain or unbalancing. you cant rely on pain all the time..conversly and logicly you cant rely on unbalancing all the time. These are only two principals, there are others and they all work together. Hapkido isnt based on one of them, it uses all of them. Also a trademark principal of Hapkido is (and to my understanding has always been) practicality. If people can resist pain with training (ignoring the fact that if you are in a self defence situation you are very very unlikely to fight another Hapkidoin or Aikidojin - something many people overlook when they talk about practicality) then why cant someone learn to keep their balance? Expecially since its a natural human ability. Simply practicing moves on a resisting apponent show that they can regain their balance automatically.

Anyway my point is the Hapkido i learn is definately not a 'bastardised version of Aikido with kicks'. As JungkiHapkido just pointed out.

[edit] i just want to clarify that i dont believe that the Hapkido i learn to be THE ONE or that it is 'pure' traditional HKD (though i believe my instructors father was taught be either choi or ji or both i cant remember), the state of HKD 80 years ago is interesting but is of little use to me and im not expert. But thats not the point i was trying to make. I was just pointing out that if my HKD isnt Aikido with kicks, then there must be others.

[BackFistMonkey]

Anyway my point is the Hapkido i learn is definately not a 'bastardised version of Aikido with kicks'. As JungkiHapkido just pointed out.

[edit] i just want to clarify that i dont believe that the Hapkido i learn to be THE ONE or that it is 'pure' traditional HKD (though i believe my instructors father was taught be either choi or ji or both i cant remember), the state of HKD 80 years ago is interesting but is of little use to me and im not expert. But thats not the point i was trying to make. I was just pointing out that if my HKD isnt Aikido with kicks, then there must be others.

I second that I find little Aikido in the Hapkido I am learning . It appears similar on the surfice ...:rolleyes: but its just common concepts ... alot of them I learned in other martial arts before Hapkido ... there are certain traits a fighter must have ... a good Martial Art will sharpen those skills and share those bits of wisdom so of course they overlap .

Calling Hapkido a "bastardised version of Aikido with kicks" Is like calling a JKD practitioner a fencer without a foil .Sure at times, in certain lighting, it may look similiar ...if your drunk ... but that doesnt mean its true...

but now that I think about it ... I made a point .. just dont know about what ....
:confused:
that sucks
never mind..........

BackFistMonkey

[kevinyusul]

Hi All,

It is interesting what a lot of people think about Hapkido and what they think Hapkido is, Modern Hapkido as nearly all practioners practice is just a bastardisation of the mix of taekwondo and aikido + mixture of bits and peices thrown in such as the cane, belt fan to give it the distinctly korean feel.

Hapkido is not an art developed by choi young sul, but is an art developed by ji han jae. What choi young sul brought back from Japan is Daito ryu aiki jujutsu in which he called YUSUL (korean for jujutsu) and these techniques is what was taught to students like ji han jae, ji han jae like most koreans after they study for a while go of and make their own art that is slightly different to their masters hence Hapkido was born, where ji han jae added kicks falls, judo throws, cane, belt and all the other bits. Hapkido is ji han jaes baby.

Hapkido seems to have little or no unbalancing techniques and there is no emphises on Aiki and in fact 90% of hapkido techniques will not work against strength and resistance if applyed by the attacker, where as aikido does counter for this by unbalancing and or moving the opponent first to apoint where resistance will not work.

Reasoning Ji han jae studied with choi for only about 3 years while he was a teenager, only enough time to learn basic tehcniques and movement if at all using AIKI there is no such thing in Hapkido

[iron_ox]

Hi All,

It is interesting what a lot of people think about Hapkido and what they think Hapkido is, Modern Hapkido as nearly all practioners practice is just a bastardisation of the mix of taekwondo and aikido + mixture of bits and peices thrown in such as the cane, belt fan to give it the distinctly korean feel.

Hapkido is not an art developed by choi young sul, but is an art developed by ji han jae. What choi young sul brought back from Japan is Daito ryu aiki jujutsu in which he called YUSUL (korean for jujutsu) and these techniques is what was taught to students like ji han jae, ji han jae like most koreans after they study for a while go of and make their own art that is slightly different to their masters hence Hapkido was born, where ji han jae added kicks falls, judo throws, cane, belt and all the other bits. Hapkido is ji han jaes baby.

Hapkido seems to have little or no unbalancing techniques and there is no emphises on Aiki and in fact 90% of hapkido techniques will not work against strength and resistance if applyed by the attacker, where as aikido does counter for this by unbalancing and or moving the opponent first to apoint where resistance will not work.

Reasoning Ji han jae studied with choi for only about 3 years while he was a teenager, only enough time to learn basic tehcniques and movement if at all using AIKI there is no such thing in Hapkido

Hello Kevin,

Plain and simple, you couldn't be more wrong. Before you make sweeping statements about Dojunim Choi, or Ji, why not ask some of the members here that are more familiar with the material? Ji Han Jae is the Founder of Sin Moo Hapkido, that is what he claims. There is great controversy about who came up with the name, but it is really not relevant as Ji's addition to Choi's technique became Sin Moo (is that right Stuart?).

Choi taught Hapkido, that is what he called his art, and all the certificates he signed bore this out. Choi was the first president of all the major Hapkido organizations, and until his death in 1986 was revered as the most senior martial arts instructor of his type in Korea.

I am uncertain under what lineage you study Hapkido, but from this last post I really am very curious as you seem unsure of facts from either the Ji or Choi lineage.

I hate to say this, but common misconceptions of the public are often caused from intentional or accidental spreading of incorrect information like that contained in your last post.

As to my qualifications to make this statement, I am a 25+ year adherant to the Choi lineage and am a current student of Grandmaster Lim, Hyun Soo, 9th Dan directly from Dojunim Choi, Yong Sul.

I hope to have further dialoge on this topic to help to continue to learn and inform. :)

[BackFistMonkey]

Hi All,

It is interesting what a lot of people think about Hapkido and what they think Hapkido is, Modern Hapkido as nearly all practioners practice is just a bastardisation of the mix of taekwondo and aikido + mixture of bits and peices thrown in such as the cane, belt fan to give it the distinctly korean feel.

Hapkido is not an art developed by choi young sul, but is an art developed by ji han jae. What choi young sul brought back from Japan is Daito ryu aiki jujutsu in which he called YUSUL (korean for jujutsu) and these techniques is what was taught to students like ji han jae, ji han jae like most koreans after they study for a while go of and make their own art that is slightly different to their masters hence Hapkido was born, where ji han jae added kicks falls, judo throws, cane, belt and all the other bits. Hapkido is ji han jaes baby.

Hapkido seems to have little or no unbalancing techniques and there is no emphises on Aiki and in fact 90% of hapkido techniques will not work against strength and resistance if applyed by the attacker, where as aikido does counter for this by unbalancing and or moving the opponent first to apoint where resistance will not work.

Reasoning Ji han jae studied with choi for only about 3 years while he was a teenager, only enough time to learn basic tehcniques and movement if at all using AIKI there is no such thing in Hapkido


The six principles that are used that not nessecarly need power when you are perfoming a technique or when you are about to perform a technique are based on

1. etiquette, mostly applys to the training in the dojang, but can be used as in the movie "The last samurai" cutting of the head of a losing samurai in battle :-)

2. the use of the eyes, maintain eye contact at all times during a technique, the eyes tell the secret of what the opponent is doing

3. breathing, using ki breathing to increase your bodies power at the instance of being attacked similar to applying AIKI

4. proper distancing, make sure the attacker is your range to attack and not further away, the attacker comes within our personal zone

5. breaking balance, essential for any technique to work without this your technique will fail

6. continual alertness, for other attackers, if attacked by more thatn one person

This are the principles our Hapkido is based around

Kev


Bold print My doing ...umm so which is not part of Hapkido and which is ? ....and if Hapkido doesnt work against resistance why am I wasting my time learning it .Why are martial artists I respect wasting their time learning it .. and why the hell does it WORK ?
I think I may just appear to be dumb on the surfice but then again what do I know I am just some hick .

And you seem to contradick yourself alot here . I pointed some of them out with the handy bold text ...

So in the end I say you make no-sense-what-so-ever when you apply continuity, common sense, and your own words to your words .

Yours Truly

BackFIstMonkey

PS : the "center line" or "core" of the body tells the secrets the eyes can lie , lure and decieve, all motions are seen when looking at the core . Its simple if your looking deeply into your opininants eyes you cant see His feet at punching range and your face is open in order to get an unobstructed view of his/her eyes . The two things I dont recomend when your seriously in need of self defense are :
1.getting your feet trapped/stomped below your line of sight like a noob .
2.leaving your guard down to see the pretty eyes of your attacker to see where he is looking so you can figure out where he/she will be targeting.

I really think you should lay off the T.V. for a bit .... the editing and cut scenes have you confused as to how things tend to go down in real life .

[Kosh]

Hapkido seems to have little or no unbalancing techniques and there is no emphises on Aiki and in fact 90% of hapkido techniques will not work against strength and resistance if applyed by the attacker, where as aikido does counter for this by unbalancing and or moving the opponent first to apoint where resistance will not work.


Hold on for a moment Kev. 90 per cent of HKD doesnt work against resistance? Thats crap. The HKD i learn uses unbalancing for alot of moves but it also uses many other principals, sometimes all at once. Unbalancing isnt always practical. Neither is the 'use their force against them' cliche.

So you unbalance someone...then what?..they fall down...then what? you let them get back up? No. You lock them down (im sure you do this in Aikido). This is needed to gain cotrol over them. But what if i dont have time to 'move them to an offbalance position and put them down (do people not resist to this - im sure they do - though its hard to resist anything when you run at someone from 6 metres away throwing the punch to end all punches)'. Why not just lock them there and then - over. They go down / they stay up - who cares. Done. What if they posess the apparently rare talent of being able to retain their balance while throwing a jab?

In the words of my teacher "we dont just make them fall down, we make them want to fall down".

I practice all my techniques with resistance...they work. You almost always have to adapt to the other person because they automatically regain balance and it take practice. I admit that alot of schools dont teach overcoming resistance. Demos always look very idealistic, but there just for show. You seem to be comparing AKD and HKD by the same set of ideas ie unbalancing as a core, but obviously we go about things differently and dont rely on that principal alone.

AND unbalancing isnt essential for every technique...i can kick someone in the head. But then AKD completely overlooks kicking...good luck with that.

And what the hell is Aiki? Not everone speaks Japanese.

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

"Hapki" as we should call it here (in the Hapkido forum) is the extension of energy that is applied during a technique. It is not just physical strength, but "spiritual" power that is a result of body position, proper breathing, and the knowledge and belif in the technique itself.

This is a tough concept to write about - much easier to feel when a technique is done with seemingly no effort against a non-compliant opponent.

[shadow warrior]

I do not know who has been giving Kevinyusul his information about Hapkido, but about the only facts in his post are that Masters Choi and Ji were involved in the art of Hapkido.

For example: to state that Master Ji added judo throws is false. Many of the grab defences taught by Master Choi were used to defeat judo throws, both before grabbing to throw and after gripping.

My first Master instructor Chung Kee Tae (a direct student of Master Choi's) made us do countless hours of breakfall, diving and falling routines as taught to him directly by Master Choi.

I agree with other Hapkido instructors on here that very few people actually know what Hapkido is. I know it is NOT Aikido with Tae Kwon Do.

Keith Stewart
Head Instructor
East West Hapkido

[aiki-jo]

When I hear or read about the lineage between DRAJ and Hapkido, it makes me laugh. There isn't one shread of proof that the founder of Hapkido trained with DRAJ. I've seen Hapkido, TKD, Aikido and more importantly, DRAJ. There is no comparison between Aikido and Hapkido with DRAJ. What separates DRAJ from the others is simple... True Aiki. There is no Aiki in Hapkido. And most Aikido schools I've seen are clueless about Aiki. Hapkido is a great hard style system and I would recommend it to most people. They use a great combo of kicks, punches and locks. But I believe the system relies to much on stregth and trying to explain Aiki to most practioners of Hapkido, is pointless. So to say Hapkido comes from DRAJ, to me, is crazy. I would say the founder trained with some jujitsu people who claimed to know Aiki.

[shadow warrior]

aiki-jo]When I hear or read about the lineage between DRAJ and Hapkido, it makes me laugh. There isn't one shread of proof that the founder of Hapkido trained with DRAJ. I've seen Hapkido, TKD, Aikido and more importantly, DRAJ. There is no comparison between Aikido and Hapkido with DRAJ. What separates DRAJ from the others is simple... True Aiki. There is no Aiki in Hapkido.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to an aiki concept, application or demonstratable KI trick which is found in DRAJ which CAN NOT be found in the senior ranks of HAPKIDO practitioners. I know that many of the instructors here would be most interested in any example you could put forward.

Keith Stewart
Head Instructor
East West Hapkido

[Yudanja]

And I thought Taekwon-Do politics and history was bad.. LOL

Does anyone know the story behind Gen. Choi's addition of Hapkido self-defense techniques (joint manipulation, throws) to Taekwon-Do? How he had a top Hapkido instructor in the 60's teach his senior black belts these techniques? They are included in ITF Taekwon-Do training to this day..and are illustrated in all of Gen. Choi's books.

Just wondering...

[hollywood1340]

Hi All,

It is interesting what a lot of people think about Hapkido and what they think Hapkido is, Modern Hapkido as nearly all practioners practice is just a bastardisation of the mix of taekwondo and aikido + mixture of bits and peices thrown in such as the cane, belt fan to give it the distinctly korean feel.

Hapkido is not an art developed by choi young sul, but is an art developed by ji han jae. What choi young sul brought back from Japan is Daito ryu aiki jujutsu in which he called YUSUL (korean for jujutsu) and these techniques is what was taught to students like ji han jae, ji han jae like most koreans after they study for a while go of and make their own art that is slightly different to their masters hence Hapkido was born, where ji han jae added kicks falls, judo throws, cane, belt and all the other bits. Hapkido is ji han jaes baby.

Hapkido seems to have little or no unbalancing techniques and there is no emphises on Aiki and in fact 90% of hapkido techniques will not work against strength and resistance if applyed by the attacker, where as aikido does counter for this by unbalancing and or moving the opponent first to apoint where resistance will not work.

Reasoning Ji han jae studied with choi for only about 3 years while he was a teenager, only enough time to learn basic tehcniques and movement if at all using AIKI there is no such thing in Hapkido

Okay I normaly stay out of these threads, but this is my vote for the funniest post of all time. C'mon, I study a "bastardized" version of HKD, depending on your political leanings, and this statement is still untrue. Now how about Aikido on the street? Sorry, coudn't resist. We are all entitled to our opinions and I applaud you for putting it out there, but I'm sorry sir, you are flat out wrong on this one. :D

[iron_ox]

What separates DRAJ from the others is simple... True Aiki. There is no Aiki in Hapkido.

Hello Jo,

I am willing to bet you have never seen authentic Hapkido...

[iron_ox]

And I thought Taekwon-Do politics and history was bad.. LOL

Does anyone know the story behind Gen. Choi's addition of Hapkido self-defense techniques (joint manipulation, throws) to Taekwon-Do? How he had a top Hapkido instructor in the 60's teach his senior black belts these techniques? They are included in ITF Taekwon-Do training to this day..and are illustrated in all of Gen. Choi's books.

Just wondering...

Hello Yudanja,

That Hapkido Master is Chung Kee Tae. He is still living in Ontario, Canada I believe. He appears in the "Orange" book of General Choi. I believe Keith Stewart can fill you in more there.

Incidently, we really have very little politics - there's another name for it! :)

[Yudanja]

Hello Yudanja,

That Hapkido Master is Chung Kee Tae. He is still living in Ontario, Canada I believe. He appears in the "Orange" book of General Choi. I believe Keith Stewart can fill you in more there.

Incidently, we really have very little politics - there's another name for it! :)

Yah. thats the name I was looking for.. thank you :)

[Thomas]

And I thought Taekwon-Do politics and history was bad.. LOL

Well, we Hapkido practioners strive to be the best in everything we do... politics and bickering included! :D

It is nice that we can all get together at this forum and bicker together though... because there's also a lot of sharing going on!

Incidently, we really have very little politics - there's another name for it!
Heh heh heh :D

That Hapkido Master is Chung Kee Tae. He is still living in Ontario, Canada I believe. He appears in the "Orange" book of General Choi. I believe Keith Stewart can fill you in more there.
Ontario you say? I'd be inetrested in more information if possible...

[wild_pitch]

keith can offer forward more information i am sure.

BUT if you want some general info we have a bio for him up on our site.

http://www.eastwesthapkido.com/

click on the [master chung bio] link, in the about section.

master chung was keith's (shadow warrior's) first instructor.

Ontario you say? I'd be inetrested in more information if possible...

[Thomas]

Thanks... I enjoyed the read. Someday I would love to get to Toronto and check you guys out...

[wild_pitch]

May i suggest the summer months. =)

[Thomas]

May i suggest the summer months. =)
Actually, if it works out, I may plan a trip to Toronto in the summer... it all depends on what else is happening. If I do get to Toronto, I hope we can meet up and talk and/or train! I just don't like the idea of going south in the summer :eek:

[aiki-jo]

Hello Shadow Warrior... I appreciate your response. Since you're assuming that KI is some sort of trick, how can I enlighten you on it? And it sounds as though, that's what you're missing... Enlightenment. I would suggest you keep practicing re-directing your opponents energy, maybe one day you'll have KI manifest on its on. Then you'll truly be enlightened. Hopefully you'll understand that KI is not a trick, and it's something that gets manifested through time and practice. So when you say it's being demonstrated in the senior ranks of Hapkido, ask them to explain to you how the KI becomes and where the trick is. I'd like to hear their response to you...

[aiki-jo]

Hello Iron OX... I appreciate your response. That would be a good arguement in any style. Has anyone truely seen Hapkido, DRAJ, Aikido...etc? We all think we've seen the best until something else comes along. In answer to your question, I would reply yes, I believe so. I've seen some by various artists who claim to know Hapkido very well. And based on their lineage, I would not argue that. But again, what I saw was jujitsu, because there was no TRUE Aiki. Anyone can re-direct a grab, punch, kick, etc.. and call it Aiki. That is not Aiki, Aiki is manifested and when you can feel it or see it, you'll understand.

[iron_ox]

That is not Aiki, Aiki is manifested and when you can feel it or see it, you'll understand.

Hello Jo,

So you have trained with these Hapkido people? Since Aiki according to you can be seen and felt, I assume you can describe such an aura?

I read your post on the Aikido forum where you used a very disrespectful term for the Founder of that style. So, if I may ask, what style do you study? If it is Daito-ryu, can you provide your lineage, time in rank etc.? Many thanks.

[glo_in_da_dark]

hapkido's a korean MA, rite?

HA! i told that to my bro, and he said i was wrong!!

[MacKiDo]

Hello Shadow Warrior... I appreciate your response. Since you're assuming that KI is some sort of trick, how can I enlighten you on it? And it sounds as though, that's what you're missing... Enlightenment. I would suggest you keep practicing re-directing your opponents energy, maybe one day you'll have KI manifest on its on. Then you'll truly be enlightened. Hopefully you'll understand that KI is not a trick, and it's something that gets manifested through time and practice. So when you say it's being demonstrated in the senior ranks of Hapkido, ask them to explain to you how the KI becomes and where the trick is. I'd like to hear their response to you...

I find it curious that you assume that you have a corner on the Ki market, even more curious that you would be so claim that an art that you haven't trained in lacks it. It sounds like typical "internet martial arts prognostication" to me. I would also hazard to guess that you have no idea what shadowwarrior's experience of Ki is either. You should look at what Sun-Tzu wrote about respecting the abilities of your opponent.

[wild_pitch]

heh not to mention his reading comprehension leaves much to be desired as he obviously misunderstood shadow warrior's comment. i assume he's not one for, "book learnin."

I find it curious that you assume that you have a corner on the Ki market, even more curious that you would be so claim that an art that you haven't trained in lacks it. It sounds like typical "internet martial arts prognostication" to me. I would also hazard to guess that you have no idea what shadowwarrior's experience of Ki is either. You should look at what Sun-Tzu wrote about respecting the abilities of your opponent.

[aiki-jo]

Hello IronOx... Explaining it is impossible. Ask any practionior to explain Aiki to you, see how many different responses you get. It's expressed in your technique and more importantly, watch your uki in his actions.... As far as my ranking goes, I'm a lonely 2nd dan in Aiki-Jujitsu. No direct lineage to DRAJ. Although I have trained in some DRAJ, I have no rank whatsoever in that style. I've been training for almost 16 years. I am training with some Hapkido people off and on. I would recommend Hapkido to most people based on what I've seen. But I have NOT seen "True" Aiki in any Hapkido school I've visited. That was my point to begin with...

[aiki-jo]

Hello MacKiDo.. I do not have the market cornered on KI. But thanks for the assumption.

[shadow warrior]

Hello Shadow Warrior... I appreciate your response. Since you're assuming that KI is some sort of trick, how can I enlighten you on it? And it sounds as though, that's what you're missing... Enlightenment. I would suggest you keep practicing re-directing your opponents energy, maybe one day you'll have KI manifest on its on. Then you'll truly be enlightened. Hopefully you'll understand that KI is not a trick, and it's something that gets manifested through time and practice. So when you say it's being demonstrated in the senior ranks of Hapkido, ask them to explain to you how the KI becomes and where the trick is. I'd like to hear their response to you...

Aiki Jo:

The first rule of KI:
Ki is "life force" and is found in ALL living things..

The ability to utilize this energy on demand is available to ALL human beings..dead objects have NO Ki.

Ki does NOT "become" at the will of human beings..Ki simply IS..yes it can be utilized within certain parameters and applied..but it can NOT be CREATED spontaneously at the will of a human being..that would mean that you could instantly create independent lifeforce on demand. That is the ability of a supreme being..

It took the Buddha himself many, many lifetimes to attain what you claim to have achieved in your three decades of life here on this earth. A remarkable achievement by any standard you care to employ.

Although I am actively following my chosen Zen path toward this desireable state, I don't think that I have reached enlightenment as yet, this is true. But, I do not assume anything about anybody..that can get you into trouble instantly.

There is nothing like a person who by their very assumptions undermines any enlightenment credibility they might claim. In your response you were quite carefull to avoid giving a SINGLE example of Aiki theories, application or demonstrateable manefestations seen in DAJJ which CAN NOT be found within the capabilities of senior practitioners of Hapkido.

The fact that you have assumed that I am personally not capabable of demonstrating any examples of Ki application in technique, theory or demonstration, undercuts your claims of personal enlightenment (usually accompanied by gifted insights into other human beings).

"Assumptions are but false paths leading the student ever further away from true enlightenment". (Ma Yogi Rabiya cir 1763). From: No Water No Moon..Stories of Zen.

I have just return from five weeks in Thailand where I spent the vast majority of my time meditating, learning (with Buddist monks at the Golden Temple and Wat Po) and studying old Thai martial motion (trapping, projection, misdirection and Ki development) outside Ching Mai. This trip again confirmed for me, that "Aiki" is a Japanese term for a set of universal concepts found within many cultural martial traditions. (I hate to break the news to you but, it is NOT by any means unique to DAJJ. If the truth be told the Japanese were the LAST on the Martial knowledge expansion route from India before the Pacific Ocean.).

I have long pursued an interest in the various roots of Hapkido so I will be travelling again to Japan (in March) and I intend to finally visit Hokkaido where many of the Dojos affiliated with the Katsuyuki Kondo DAJJ lineage are located. I have already visited Okamoto Sensei's Dojo in Tokyo (soft style DAJJ) on a previous trip. If you are a DAJJ student, which of the four major lineages do you come from??? Where in Japan have you trained?..if so.. which dojo? We would be interested in your backround.

I'm sure that many of the Hapkido instructors here would be very interested in ANY actual examples of DAJJ theories, concepts, applications or KI demonstrations (known as "tricks" among second generation Hapkido Masters) which you can recount, which in your opinion, are NOT found in Hapkido at senior levels.

I will tell you for example that in almost 30 years in martial arts (Hapkido and roots), I have NEVER seen a DAJJ practitioner of any rank (even in Japan) demonstrate Ki application related to strike technique of any kind. This ability is commonplace in senior Hapkido Masters!

So gives us a specific example of Aiki (as you know it) which you feel can not be found in true Hapkido at senior ranks.

K. Stewart
Head Instructor
East West Hapkido

[mike-IHF]

reply,

Not to sound like an a**, but it seems your belief of the meaning of KI is exactly what asians wanted westerners to think in the first place. That they contain some mystical force that no-one else has. There is many words for that(propaganda) being one of them. The meaning of KI is very basic, and simple "follow along please". If you read the Chinese Kanji, or in Korean Hanja. The Kanji for KI has two symbols. One is the splatter type part which is hard rice, to symbolize the BODY. The body being hard in concept. The second part are the wavey type lines which means breath. KI=BODY+BREATH, or SPIRIT. So KI is BODY/Mind, SPIRIT coordination. Thats all. NO mystical force. It just means BODY, being in coordination with spirit/mind. So as in Hapkido. Hap=harmony, KI=body/spirit coordination, DO=way. It is actually read as "THE WAY TO HARMONY THROUGH BODY/MIND/SPIRIT COORDINATION."

[aiki-jo]

Hello Shadow.... Great reading!!! Although I disagree with you.. Just a little. KI can become at the will of a human. The problem is you're looking at it from a mystical/Godly sense. Which is not a bad thing, because you obviously are a spiritual person. I also agree with you on the path of martial arts... And I believe that martial arts either started in India, or believe or not in Africa. Are you suggesting that Hapkido is even close to the stuff Okamoto teaches? And, have you ever heard of a KI/CHI strike? It is not unique to Hapkido, and I've seen this type of strike in Hapkido, and I knew what is was. So I asked the instructor (8th dan) what the technique involved, and got nothing in response... So back to the same thing as I said before, no Aiki in Hapkido, only great jujitsu.

[iron_ox]

So back to the same thing as I said before, no Aiki in Hapkido, only great jujitsu.

And as those of us that are in Traditional, Orthodox Hapkido have said before, you are still wrong. Try to see some real Hapkido from the Choi root. :)

[Jungkihapkido]

And as those of us that are in Traditional, Orthodox Hapkido have said before, you are still wrong. Try to see some real Hapkido from the Choi root.

True Kevin. Aiki Jo, you have not seen the Hapkido of DJN Choi, Yong Sul as evidenced by your posts. :)

www.millersmudo.com

[nj_howard]

...There is no Aiki in Hapkido. And most Aikido schools I've seen are clueless about Aiki. Hapkido is a great hard style system and I would recommend it to most people. They use a great combo of kicks, punches and locks. But I believe the system relies to much on stregth and trying to explain Aiki to most practioners of Hapkido, is pointless...
just to add another voice to the chorus, i have no idea what you've seen and been told was hapkido, but the above comments are, to be blunt, utterly incorrect.

the original art of choi young sool - whatever you choose to call it - places absolutely NO reliance on strength. choi himself was a man of small stature. aiki / hapki is the essence of his art. its techniques are based on harnessing the energy and momentum of your attacker. it is a basic tenet of traditional hapkido practice that if you are relying on brute force to effect a technique, you are simply doing something wrong. time to step back and figure out what it is that is wrong, and put it right.

[shadow warrior]

Aiki Jo:

You have not answered one single question.

You have presented nothing except your assumptions..no proof of why your view has any credibility whatsoever, no lineage, no examples, no appology for your basic incorrect assumptions..

Ki CAN NOT be created by a human being..it already EXISTS in all living things..the more a person integrates their mind, body and spiritual aspects, the more that person can apply the energy which is already available..this is not the soul domian of DAJJ..

A blanket statement "there is no Aiki in Hapkido" can be repeated a million times by a person who has no proof and a few uniformed people will begin to believe it..while your at it, you could attempt to sway a few people into believing that the founder of Aikido had no Aiki in his techniques..either..

It seems that you suffer from tunnel vision and a lack of exposure to experiences which you can recount to support your misguided claims..I wonder who has filled your head with these baseless opinions..It's starting to sound like .."MY STYLE IS BETTER THAN YOURS!" BS.

K. Stewart

[Trae]

the original art of choi young sool - whatever you choose to call it - places absolutely NO reliance on strength. choi himself was a man of small stature. aiki / hapki is the essence of his art. its techniques are based on harnessing the energy and momentum of your attacker. it is a basic tenet of traditional hapkido practice that if you are relying on brute force to effect a technique, you are simply doing something wrong. time to step back and figure out what it is that is wrong, and put it right.

I can't comment on this whole "Ki" and "Aiki" business but I definitely stand by the quoted post. None of the techniques we're tought require strength, in fact the more I learn the more it seems that if my oponent resists the greater trouble he'll get himself into, because I'll just switch into a different technique which will use the oponent's momentum and energy. I've asked my Instructor, and he confirmed it. Furthermore, a lot of our movements are circular: from throws, to eblows, to take downs. So Aiki Jo's comment about hapkido being all about strenght is definitely misplaced.

[Kosh]

Just because you dont use the other person's momentum, that doesnt mean you have to rely on brute force. A strong tradition in the HKD i learn is that of practicality and evolution. You could argue that 'traditional' HKD is as much about this as it is about sticking to old styles.

I definately agree HKD isnt about strength, if you think that you obviously have the wrong end of the jangbong (heheheh sry)

I see alot of HKD demos (almost always American ones for some reason) with ppl running from 10 feet away and getting swung around the room...and i think its just AKD. I have seen HKD grandmasters who grab a stationary oponent and just put them on the ground - no momentum, no redirecting of energy...why because there isnt any to redirect (or there isnt time or space). To me this is more like HKD.

Who can say that just because they learn a style of HKD that hasnt changed, that that is somehow 'pure' HKD?

[austinso]

KI can become at the will of a human

Ki does not "become"...it is expressed by Man. Training allows you to express *your* Ki more directly, not "create" or make it "come into being".

However, if you wish to continue your belief in the preeminence of Aiki...then by all means continue on your path...but remember that pride always leads to failure...

Austin

[Kosh]

not in a gay pride march.

[BackFistMonkey]

not in a gay pride march.

Amen !! Brother Kosh ... Amen ...


BackFistMonkey

[austinso]

not in a gay pride march.

Peeheehee~! That sher wuz funny jeb!

Hey...don't blow a gasket trying to think of something funny..I realize it is difficult...my post was blatantly "out there" and the ******** index was quite high ...

But here it is par for the course...

Austin

P.S. Your homophobia aside, Jeb, the comments on "pride"/"arrogance" still stands as does the nature/source of Ki.

[BackFistMonkey]

Austin

P.S. Your homophobia aside, Jeb, the comments on "pride"/"arrogance" still stands as does the nature/source of Ki.
Austin maybe you mistunderstood the the context . you said "

but remember that pride always leads to failure...

and then Kosh said

not in a gay pride march.

Which was saying that Gay Pride Marches do not end in failure becouse of their "pride" . Not very homophobic sounding ... sounds more like some sort of a show of acceptance in a joke made in a tolerant , positive , light ... and not really a threat to your thesis on Ki


Be well train harder

BackFist Monkey

[Kosh]

so, who is jeb?


PS. If you were calling me homophobic you should take your foot out of you mouth, re-read what i said then explain how you havent broken the rules of the forum.

[austinso]

so, who is jeb?


PS. If you were calling me homophobic you should take your foot out of you mouth, re-read what i said then explain how you havent broken the rules of the forum.

Point taken...my bad...and my apologies.

Austin

P.S. There are rules?! Sheesh...

[Kosh]

lol...no problem

[Danjun]

... as I said before, no Aiki in Hapkido, only great jujitsu.

as others have pointed out, you need to see traditional hapkido and then reassess your blanket statement. the jung ki kwan hapkido guys are a great start and very accessible to you (relatively speaking).

how many AUTHENTIC hapkido schools/practicioners have you seen/worked out with?

i've done/am doing both hapkido and aikido for years now - and i can tell you that yes, if you go to a bad hapkido school, there is very little hapki/aiki involved. however, if you go to a bona fide traditional hapkido school, there is, in my opinion, more hapki/aiki then what is exhibited in aikido.

[Kosh]

can someone explain what aiki is?

[aiki-jo]

I've trained in Hapkido, Aikido and Aiki-Jujitsu. From my training with Hapkido people, I noticed little to no Aiki. The affiliations are USKMAF and Korea Hapkido Federation. The training was excellent in the sense of pure jujitsu. And I also enjoyed the punching/kicking as well. Now in terms of there authenticity, I hope you can answer that better than I can. And to clarify, I feel there is no comparison to the Aikido that I've seen to the Hapkido I've seen. But that's another discussion. And I would love to see some responses on how to explain Aiki.

[iron_ox]

The affiliations are USKMAF and Korea Hapkido Federation.

Hello aiki-jo,

I am going to be very blunt here, so don't take this the wrong way - but if the aforementioned groups are the only ones you trained with, well, you have not SEEN Hapkido yet - so it is no surprise that you feel that the aiki is missing.

[Danjun]

i don't feel comfortable with a blanket condemnation of the korea hapkido federation. i have been on the mat with certain old time hapkido men who are prominent in the khf and they exhibit hapki/aiki in their techniques - they also comment that most hapkido has degenerated into use of force, etc.,

aikijo, if there is a jung ki kwan hapkido school near you, check them out. i think you will be pleasantly surprised with the hapki that is in their hapkido.

[American HKD]

I've trained in Hapkido, Aikido and Aiki-Jujitsu. From my training with Hapkido people, I noticed little to no Aiki. The affiliations are USKMAF and Korea Hapkido Federation. The training was excellent in the sense of pure jujitsu. And I also enjoyed the punching/kicking as well. Now in terms of there authenticity, I hope you can answer that better than I can. And to clarify, I feel there is no comparison to the Aikido that I've seen to the Hapkido I've seen. But that's another discussion. And I would love to see some responses on how to explain Aiki.

Greetings,

What are you calling Aiki?

As a 4th Dan Instr. and long time KHF student I can tell you, by comparing the Hapkido of the KHF to Aikido you will get no where, they are not the same thing.

The Hapki in hapkido is alive and well, I will assume you either didn't train with a good hapkido Instr. or you don't understand the Hapkido Style.

Also there are a few distinct schools and levels in Aiki-Jutsu, and Hapkido is one version taught through Choi Yong Sool in Korea.

I will add our Hapki (Aiki) is much more subtle than the large leading motions of Aikido.

[Kosh]

Whats the hassle with the KHF?

Is this the KHF in the US? Wasnt there a load of crap involving that?

[American HKD]

Whats the hassle with the KHF?

Is this the KHF in the US? Wasnt there a load of crap involving that?


I don't think anyones picking on the KHF they just metioned it in passing.

The problem here a couple years ago has run it's course so I won't yalk about it.

[HKD]

BUT, if an instructor doesn't have certification from a major HKD association doesn't mean they artn't a good instructor. many teachers only give school certificates.

[American HKD]

BUT, if an instructor doesn't have certification from a major HKD association doesn't mean they artn't a good instructor. many teachers only give school certificates.


True but you have to be more careful because you don't know what your getting good or bad?

[Jumper53]

I was never directly taught how to use Hapki with words, but I was shown it hundreds of times. The Master teaches very simple concepts, "grab hand, move it this way, lock his elbow and finish", kinda stuff. But for some reason it always feels different when he does it.

So one day I started watching him more closely... his stepping, tan jon movement, timing, and where the opponent landed. All of a sudden all the effort in taking a big resisting guy down just disapeared.

A couple of years later he took several senior belts aside and gave them a big talk about how they had not "seen" how to use these techniques. He was quite upset about having to tell them these details.

To sum it up, he shows Hapki to the senior students when he uses us to demonstrate the basics to the junior students. It is up to the students to find the understanding. Watch your Masters every detail.

I think where some of the Hapki is being lost in Hapkido is 3rd and 4th generation instructors who never watched their masters close enough to learn the Hapki. I did not fully understand this myself until I read a book about Aikido and the Aiki concept and I said, "hey, we do that!"

[Jumper53]

A concept that I found which is used more in HKD is that we are able to use the opponents force differently than in most other arts that "use the opponents power".

The typical way to use the opponents power is more usefull against an unskilled opponent who throws everything into an attack. It is easy to redirect the power and give them a toss without much effort. But more unique to HKD we redirect them to the ground right at our feet for a hard finish instead of tossing them around the room.

Against a good opponent who retains his balance when he attacks it is very difficult to redirect them. But in HKD we can also use their retracting/defensive energy against them for the same result. This is one reason HKD is known as a defense from other MA. But this form of Hapki/Aiki is more difficult to see for the untrained eye.

[mixmastersenior]

One of the things that I really like about HKD is that it is far more concept driven than technique driven. Sort of a thinking man's art. I think that style of instruction also allows someone to make the art more their own the more they practice and study.
On another point, I have no idea whether Ji Han Jae introduced throws to GM Choi Yung Sul or not. But I do know that GM Choi's very first student in Korea was Suh, Bok Sup, and He was a 1st Dan in Kudokan Judo when He met Choi. Perhaps there was an earlier influence?

[Jungkihapkido]

Doju Nim Choi's style of throwing was very different from Yudo/Judo. Remember that Judo came from jujitsu and Hapkido from Aiki-Jujutsu. The foot placement is a major difference from Hapkido to Judo throws.

Take care,

www.millersmudo.com