Speaking of Yoda, a media/philosophical question...

[Universal]

As I'm new, I don't know whether, or to what extent, this point has been addressed/explored, so I'll throw it out there for contemplation or rebuke (or worse, lol, to be ignored....)

The media seems to represent images of relative mastery of the principles of fighting styles as much more grounded in physical combat than I've been taught; I'm wondering if others have been disappointed (relative to teir expectations of media at any level) in this representation.

For example, Yoda. Not the mod, the actual character, as we saw that character portrayed in Episode II.

I was hoping that the Yoda we've known all this time would continue to be reflected: a master who has "moved beyond" the weapon to both understand the "scheme of totality" that, at baser levels, are represented by physical action, as well as the notion of "the art of fighting without fighting," i.e. constructing one's life such that physical conflict never appears before you.

I had seen Yoda the character as representative of such a level, of such an awareness. For Yoda to then, rather typically, pick up a lightsaber and exhibit, in the end analysis, the same means of resolution as his students - albeit with seemingly more proficiency - was disappointing.

To the extent that the Jedi fiction represented the warrior/priest lifestyle, did anyone else see Yoda's actions as selling short the notion of "mastery?" Dis anyone else hope for a type of media representation of "mastery" that would have called upon characters like Yoda to operate in a way that made saber-wielding a more brutish response that was part of an overall spectrum of growth, the latter stages of which were stepping outside of that physical circle of violence?

For me, I don't ground myself so thoroughly in the physical for mastery of that, in and of itself, but rather to become fully aware of the LIMITS of the physical, such that all my senses become attunded to that which lies just outside solutions of that type.

Yoda is not the only "master" to fall short of expectations, IMHO. Indeed, can anyone name a "master" found in media that sets the type of example to which I allude?

Expectations of the media notwithstanding, I would hope that our community would launch a discourse in myriad forms to rebuke the notion of mastery as lying solely in the realm of the physical, and submit that pysical mastery of techniques is neither the ned, nor the beginning of the end, but rather the end of the beginning...

Your thoughts?

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Universal
As I'm new, I don't know whether, or to what extent, this point has been addressed/explored, so I'll throw it out there for contemplation or rebuke (or worse, lol, to be ignored....)

The media seems to represent images of relative mastery of the principles of fighting styles as much more grounded in physical combat than I've been taught; I'm wondering if others have been disappointed (relative to teir expectations of media at any level) in this representation.

For example, Yoda. Not the mod, the actual character, as we saw that character portrayed in Episode II.

I was hoping that the Yoda we've known all this time would continue to be reflected: a master who has "moved beyond" the weapon to both understand the "scheme of totality" that, at baser levels, are represented by physical action, as well as the notion of "the art of fighting without fighting," i.e. constructing one's life such that physical conflict never appears before you.

I had seen Yoda the character as representative of such a level, of such an awareness. For Yoda to then, rather typically, pick up a lightsaber and exhibit, in the end analysis, the same means of resolution as his students - albeit with seemingly more proficiency - was disappointing.

To the extent that the Jedi fiction represented the warrior/priest lifestyle, did anyone else see Yoda's actions as selling short the notion of "mastery?" Dis anyone else hope for a type of media representation of "mastery" that would have called upon characters like Yoda to operate in a way that made saber-wielding a more brutish response that was part of an overall spectrum of growth, the latter stages of which were stepping outside of that physical circle of violence?

For me, I don't ground myself so thoroughly in the physical for mastery of that, in and of itself, but rather to become fully aware of the LIMITS of the physical, such that all my senses become attunded to that which lies just outside solutions of that type.

Yoda is not the only "master" to fall short of expectations, IMHO. Indeed, can anyone name a "master" found in media that sets the type of example to which I allude?

Expectations of the media notwithstanding, I would hope that our community would launch a discourse in myriad forms to rebuke the notion of mastery as lying solely in the realm of the physical, and submit that pysical mastery of techniques is neither the ned, nor the beginning of the end, but rather the end of the beginning...

Your thoughts?

Ahh ... but, regarding Yoda specifically, the Yoda seen in Episode II was a bit younger than the one seen in Return of the Jedi. So perhaps he learned a lot in those 20+ years. We won't really know until they get around to showing Episodes VII - IX.

Mike

[Jim]

Sometimes to find true peace you have to go to the heart of danger.

[Mo Lung]

There won't be Episodes VII to IX. They were always proposed in the old days, but Lucas has stated outright that there will only be six now.

On topic, I think mastery lies in never using the physical unless you have to, but being completely undefeatable if you do have to.

Would it have shown greater mastery to win with Force lightning rather than a light sabre? Or to not fight at all? No, whatever means necessary.

Even the greatest master will tell you that there is always someone out there that deserves an arse-kicking. It may be the only language they understand or it may be the only way to ensure safety.

Surely, if you are the master with the ability, then not delivering that necessary arse-kicking due to some moral high-ground is selling others short and making all your training rather academic.

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Mo Lung
There won't be Episodes VII to IX. They were always proposed in the old days, but Lucas has stated outright that there will only be six now.

On topic, I think mastery lies in never using the physical unless you have to, but being completely undefeatable if you do have to.

Would it have shown greater mastery to win with Force lightning rather than a light sabre? Or to not fight at all? No, whatever means necessary.

Even the greatest master will tell you that there is always someone out there that deserves an arse-kicking. It may be the only language they understand or it may be the only way to ensure safety.

Surely, if you are the master with the ability, then not delivering that necessary arse-kicking due to some moral high-ground is selling others short and making all your training rather academic.

Very well put :)

Shame about the Episodes ... hadn't heard that.

Mike

[Spike]

"To the extent that the Jedi fiction represented the warrior/priest lifestyle, did anyone else see Yoda's actions as selling short the notion of "mastery?" "

No, I personally saw it as being really cool. What`s the point of being one with the universe if you can`t cut loose now and again?

what you have had him do? start pulling at synapsis in Dooku`s brain with the force, make his blood flow the wrong way? Those would`ve been cool, but not nearly as impressive visually

[Universal]

Originally posted by Mo Lung
...Surely, if you are the master with the ability, then not delivering that necessary arse-kicking due to some moral high-ground is selling others short and making all your training rather academic.

So you see "mastery" as limited / grounded only in the physical, in the main, or am I missing the larger point?

[pesilat]

Originally posted by Universal


So you see "mastery" as limited / grounded only in the physical, in the main, or am I missing the larger point?

I don't think so. I think "mastery" includes the physical but is not limited to it. It's only "grounded" in it by the fact that that's where everyone starts (at least as far as I've ever seen). The physical training is the bricks that make up the road to enlightenment ... er sumptin like dat.

Mike

[Mo Lung]

Originally posted by Universal


So you see "mastery" as limited / grounded only in the physical, in the main, or am I missing the larger point?

No, but just because your own mastery might have transcended the physical, not everyone else has. So, you'll be drawn back to it regularly.

[khafra]

Yup, I see what you're saying, Universal--that if Yoda was truly living the Tao, he could have peacefully resolved things with Count Dooku--but he was still imperfect, though obviously a sage, so when confronted with an equally powerful will (say, Palpatine) bent on conflict, he had to use the method less preferred by the enlightened, but more by the cinemagoer, that of bustin' out his 1337 lightsaber skillz.

[Scotty Dog]

define Master???

do you mean someone that sit's in a cave/under a waterfall practicing some esoteric form so that one day he can avoid all and any confrontaions through his use of Philosophy

or

someone who through training, has reached a stage of personal development that he is comfortable with himself and his surroundings. who is content with his life and doesnt feel the need to seek out confrontations to prove himself??

either way, just because someone doesn't seek out physical confrontations doesn't mean they can always avoid them.

while the media will never portray martial arts in it's true light, at least in this case you see that fighting was the last course of action not the first :) mind you that may have just been george lucas hypeing us up for a kick ass fight scene :D

[Freeform]

Personally, I just thought it was really funny! :D

Kinda like a muppet on speed! ;)

[Jim]

John Wayne in 'The Cowboys' and Willie Nelson in 'Silverado' both avoided entering into conflict by not engaging the enemy but they were both killed by their actions. So bad idea (storyline speaking).

There is also the saying of 'Can't see the wood for the trees', whereas the reverse of that is walking straight into a tree while looking at the wood.

You need to keep it real otherwise in your race to 'complete the circle from student to master then back again' you'll just die.

[Freeform]

Hey, Jims getting all philisophical in his old age! :D

If a Masters been teaching something for most of his life, surely is going to be second (if not first) nature to react in the way that he has taught his students!?!

Col