stretching

[totalkayos]

hi, i'm just curious if anyone in here has read the books super joints, relax into stretch, or beyond stretching, all by a russian guy pavel something or another. i was thinking about ordering one to inprove my range of motion. just seeing if anyone has any feedback on these books. thanks.

[hybrid_TKD]

I have heard of the name pavel but you may want to check out the following web site too.

http://www.stadion.com/

[KickChick]

I can only offer my comments on Kurz's book that you'll find in the link hybrid_TKD provided and I also recommend "Sport Stretch" by Micheal J Alter .... both are very good!

Thanks to Kurz's book I've improved my flexibilty 100%.

[totalkayos]

thanks guys. i ordered one of his books called super joints. i'll give it a read and post what i think in a few weeks maybe more.

[KickChick]

Ok great do that.... I am curious to see how you do.

I used to subscribe to Pavel T.'s email newsletter (ezines) but couldn't keep up with the reading them.

[totalkayos]

kickchick,
so to increase speed and reaction time i train using my hand as a traget? like they do in kung fu flicks?

[KickChick]

Argh ... (yes my prior post is missing due to database problems of recent days)
But fortunately I do save my posts because these type of things happened to me in the past on other forums.
Let me repeat my post.....

Use your hand as a target when doing your dynamic stretches. I do this all the time and it does work! Centers in the brain that regulate coordination and fast movements "know" about the hand. They know it is there and that it can stop the kick so the leg does not have to be slowed down gradually to prevent overstretching.

To begin your dynamic stretching start slowly, gradually raise legs higher. Start increasing speed of kicks by using this hand-kicking drill.
This will develop your ability to move your limbs with max speed with a full range of motion in your joints (height in those kicks!). Use this drill as a warm-up only because there is a limited amount of kicks that you can practice this way ....front, back, side.
In my TKD class we also do crescent kicks this "way" keeping opposite outstretched palm held out for instep to strike.

What could be better than developing more speed and height in your kicks. Yes, I know it is not necessary to kick high .... but to have more range of motion is an added benefit to height in those kicks.

So in answer to your question ... yes, try it!
:)

[TkdWarrior]

hey ME got fullllllllllll article on this :p
lemme get one for yea


IMPROVE YOUR KICKING ABILITY IN 30 DAYS

Did somebody said "kicks"???
I guess u seriously need lessons from TKD Guy ;-)

Whenever kicks are talked about the main issue comes is "Flexibility", Gaining height n power in kicks is BIG issue. According to most of Martial Artists u cannot get Power at good height. People says One need more than 180* stretch to have good height kick n blah blah blah...
IMHO the comment about flexibilty has become taboo in MA arena..it's rarely discussed or thoroughly researched....so i can see most ppl concerns about flexibility n high kicks n not getting stability with high kicks, it's not hard to understand the power or to gain KO power at good height.

The problem with mostly ppl training is that they develop bad habbits of kicking, they develop bad ways of exercising and the worst this is bad attitude. Being exposed to 2 kicking arts(Muai Thai n TaeKon-Do) i m used to 2 different types of kicking(without chambering or with chambering) n those ppl who do chamber doesnt do it rite and thus don't gain height or power. In chambering ur kick should add momentum n hip power both so it should be more powerful kick...

The kicker's main concern should be getting good powerfull high kicks without warmup. You just need to change your practice n stretching up ways.
Now the problem is getting high kicks without warming up...
You hav to drill for about a month to see any improvements...
1. First warm up a bit(by doing some stretching ie. side splits, low bow n arrow stance).
2. Then try doing circular kicks n semi circular kicks 10 each from both leg
3. Now stand in Horse Riding Stance then now shift ur left leg towards rite leg n shifting weight on left leg try gaining hieght on rite leg sideways...remeber that ur rite leg is little bend n ur upper body(above waist) is bend forward a little ... this is simple exercise for gaining height (or you can call it side raising kick for flexibility) doing it with both legs.
4. After good repition of above excercises, Now throw side kick n stop it there n hold it(like bruce lee did in movie "enter the dragon" do with other kicks )
This was warm up routine for those who use chambering kicks

now comes to kicking part
1. first u should do kicks TaiJi style i mean kick slow with balancing urself...
u'll find that u hav real probs with chambering(u'll be completely offbalance) if u r having probs then hold a chair or something ... start this with medium height...
Note : In a week or so u'll be able to kick without holding... do this repititions with each kick u know
Slow kicking can be done without warm ups too so when feel like try it... hav fun
2. After kicking slow for 5-6 repititions and 4-5 sets now throw fast kicks
3. don't kick on Heavy bag yet, use small pads or in air(avoid hyperextension of limbs in air otherwise u'll burst ur knees/joints).

Note : This is to be Done when u r not exactly practicing or not in dojo/kwoon/Dojang.
Now comes kicking part where no warm up is necessary...
1. Make sure u hav done slow kickings at least 2-3 weeks
2. Now make habbit of throwing kicks when u r doing not practising MA ie...walking, sitting(getting up n imagine oppnt n kick) this should be done at medium height...
Note: though one can do it from the very first day it won't make much difference i m asking u to do slow kicking for at least 2 weeks because if u hav any problems with form u'll be able to erradicate it.
3. imagining ur oppnt is very must it'll add ur Intent to ur kick.
4. after couple of days start adding height to ur kick but the process remains the same.

Normally results can be seen in one month but if u go slowly with first 2-3 weeks(i'll prefer that) u can end up around 1.5 -2 months but the results will make u happy :-)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


some more advice/Information

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stretch stretch strect will only make u overflexible, stop it... if u need KO power with head height kicks then u just need to change the way u warm up, practice...
1. avoid any partner stretching
2. get into habbit of throwing kicks every now n then(first start with easy height where u dont' get urself cramps, then increase height)

every excercise i gave is time tested which i learnt from my teacher n he learnt from his teacher n none of them had any probs with joints(my teacher hav about 20 yrs in TKD)

i hav given 2 types of stretching both works on active excercise not on partner stretches/stretching on machine which r passive excercise, it doens't help the muscles much in a way than most of my techniques,
People talks about Muscle memory i m not sure that if it exists or not but one thing for sure with this kind of practice you will see noted difference in achieving height and power. i don't even hav 180 splits but can kick at 2 inch above my head, i hav gained lots of weight but still can kick with same speed and power.

If u knew stretching was done to make sure that u hav enuff fluids around ur joints while working out so that u don't get joint probs...
n then other stretching excercises like thowring front/side/back raising kicks ensure the warmup for muscles so u don't get probs with muscles tearing...
it hav helped me n some other ppl whom i gave these excercises.

-TkdWarrior-

[KickChick]

... thanks TKD guy!
.... seems totalkayos post before mine (in answer to his question) is also missing.

He was asking, although he thought it had nothing to do with stretching, how he could achieve speed and explosiveness in his kicks. And since we brought up Kurz earlier I posted his dynamic stretching routine and how he explains in his book that the nervous system uses antagonistic muscles to decrease speed and range ofmotion in an attempt to prevent injury.
One way to decrease this effect is to increase the strength of the antagonists and stabilisers. If your training program is too focused on training the prime movers, you may develop a strength imbalance, which may in turn increase the body's protective reaction thus slowing down your ability to kick fast.

[TkdWarrior]

it's TkdWarrior Ma`am not TKD Guy :p

on more serious note:
i havn't read Kurz's material but the site(stadion) is cool one... and most of my techniques are based on dynamic stretching which i learnt while studying Muai Thai n later TKD.
-TkdWarrior-

[TkdWarrior]

how he explains in his book that the nervous system uses antagonistic muscles to decrease speed and range ofmotion in an attempt to prevent injury.
One way to decrease this effect is to increase the strength of the antagonists and stabilisers. If your training program is too focused on training the prime movers<<<<<<<<<<

ok now how about explaining it in English???:D
-TkdWarrior-

[totalkayos]

damn, that is so much excellent information. this summer i am definately going to work on that as soon as my exam week is over. my only question is, should you do the slow kicking exercises, stretches, and other above mentioned excercises everyday or every other day. i know with weight training it should be done every other day to allow for muscle healing. does the same apply to the kicking drills? and MA trining in general?

[KickChick]

Originally posted by TkdWarrior
it's TkdWarrior Ma`am not TKD Guy :p
I know that.... I was just referring to your quote from your post
"Did somebody said "kicks"???
I guess u seriously need lessons from TKD Guy ;-)" (i was just assuming you were that guy!)

As far as explaining in English ... there is a prime mover muscle group and an antagonist muscle group. When the prime mover muscle group contracts or shortens, the antagonist muscle group lengthens. So naturally if one group is more "flexible" than the other what results is an increase in the resistance to the prime mover movement... which decreases the speed of the movement.
Does that kind of explain it??:confused:

[TkdWarrior]

oh i m that guy, well that post is actually my response to some Kungfu guy(they basically diss TKD) so i was picking them ;)

oh thnx for explaining.
now on to next part...
i hav no idea which are primer muscle of antognist muscles?
on wat kind of movement they lengthens or shortens?
sorry I never was a physicsts or chemist or biologist watever those damn ppl r called :p
I m more of a computer guy, so don't mind explaining things in detail, i can read 100's of pages ;)
-TkdWarrior-

[TkdWarrior]

hey KC how to subscribe Pavel T's newsletter...
-TkdWarrior-

[KickChick]

Hey no problem TKDWarrior! :)
This site will explain the whole agonist (prime mover) and antagonist muscle movement and the neural control effecting them.
http://www.norfolkjsk.org/Articles/M&S.htm

As for the Pavel newletter.... go to http://www.dragondoor.com/

[TkdWarrior]

hey thnx KC
huh i hav seen dragondoor site, it's good one too....
thnx again
-TkdWarrior-

[Labatt]

I like to individualize stretching for maximum gains. What are your strengths? Or weaknesse's?

I also do dynamic(fast action) strectches and slow holds.
I put a tremendous emphasis on splits and over hands, the best stretches you can do in my opinion

[morphus]

Can you help me KickChick - i understand how this dynamic stretch(T.Kurz) works, and have found benefits for front kicking but i am a little unsure of how to perform this technique for side kicks and back kicks; can you give a detailed breakdown of of how to perform these OR point me in the right direction i.e - a link with these details on.

CHEERS VERY MUCH

morphus

[KickChick]

http://users.cyberone.com.au/mheeney/kurz07.jpg

Start low and "lift" rather than "throw" your kicks to front, back and side ... gradually raise the legs higher, and then increase the kicking speed .....
10-12 reps a set, do as many sets as it take to reach your full range of motion in each direction(usually 2 sets are enough)..... performing twice a day.

[morphus]

Thankyou for that - that helps with the pics aswell.

Thankyou very glad!
morphus:cool:

[totalkayos]

so can these techniques be used everyday or every other day?

[TkdWarrior]

everyday use it as a part of warmup
-TkdWarrior-

[Cain]

They are'nt as heavy as PNF stretching....so yep use it everyday, it ain't intense but could give you a hell of fine results, which the physicists have already covered ;)

|Cain|

[totalkayos]

so in case anyone was wondering, i have read through super joints by pavel t. and it was a good book. there really wasn't anything new in it that hadn't been disccused here. he emphisized the slow streches and holdiing and relaxing into the stretch. in this he advises you to hold the stretch and the wait for your muscles to relax and then stretch a bit more. just thought i'd throw in my 2 cents.

[KickChick]

Thanks for your feedback on that one..... !

So how is the stretching going? Will you check out Kurz's or Alter's books... high recommend them!

[morphus]

I'm practising these stretches and i'm finding them a great help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[totalkayos]

i plan to check out those books and compare and contrast them, as soon as i get some loot to buy them.

[Stewart]

New to all of this but I have used Kurz's video which I found to be extremely good. The excercises he shows before starting to stretch can be incorporated into your training sessions very easily and these with the stretching, have help me to increase my flexibility greatly.

The only down side to the video is the cost and also the cheesy music played through out.

[KickChick]

I would like to check out the video also as I found the book way too technical for me to "understand" completely. But found that I really didn't need to read it from cover to cover.
I was in fact stretching "incorrectly" prior to reading Kurz's book paying absolutely no attention to my pelvic alignment (which was totally off) and finding that I wasn't making gains in my flexibility because of my mindset.