How do you win your matches most often?

[BurningIce333]

Which tecniques and throws do you usually go for to win with?





I usually go for tai-otoshi to throw and then go for a okuri-eri-jime in any way, shape or form.

[munkiejunkie]

for me, it is either koshi garuma or kubi nage into ju-ji gatame or reverse kesa gatame

[Ikken Hisatsu]

tai otoshi and various foot sweeps (I have strong legs from muay thai) to get them down, then it depends on my position- back mount i go for a rnc, side mount i go for kimura or armbar, full mount usually lapel choke or kimura or triangle, north-south position... well i try to get a better position :D

[Freeform]

Kimura? Aren't they illegal in Judo as they work the shoulder, not the elbow.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

no. at least not in this country, and i think you are thinking of an... americana is it? terminology>me

[Freeform]

Kimura = I dunno what the Japanese is ;) = Illegal in Judo MAP's Levo Applying Kimura (buy his videos! They're great!) (http://www.nathanleverton.com/stills/submissions_kimura.jpg)

Americana = Ude Garami = Legal

Pic

[Freeform]

Ooh, I forgot to say.

Kimura, guys elbow points to his head. Americana, guys elbow points to his feet.

[Aegis]

I'll agree with FF here, Judo rules allow the arm crush, but not the Kimura.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

well, we learn and use it over here. then again, we allow knees to the face and no headgear in amateur kickboxing matches, so maybe we are just "hardkore"

:D

[Jason Simpson]

Drop kata guruma into any arm lock/strangle that is handy.

[judojedi]

you cant really have a set plan.
my sensei always ask's us:

'Who makes the decision, aa to what move you do?'

the answer is always 'your opponent!'

however i find a dis-proportionate(sp?) amount of my fights are won with simple leg sweeps or if it goes to the ground, rear naked choke.

and aboutthe kimura, i always use it if its available, i was unaware that it was illegal. :Angel:

[Furikuchan]

'Who makes the decision, aa to what move you do?'

the answer is always 'your opponent!'

I must disagree there, my friend. You are completely in control of your techniques and your strategy on the mat. If you are allowing your opponent to guide your strategy, you're not playing the right game.
Find what you know how to do really well, and make it work! This is what setups and combinations are for. :D

[Captain_Coward]

Yup, if you only use attacks once your opponent is committed you are not really fighting fair, although counters are very important they should not be your only form of attack.
You must however tailor your attack to the way the fight is moving, analyze your opponents grip, there main throws etc.

Most used tecniques, Maki-Komi and Drop Seoi-Nage

K

[munkiejunkie]

oh, and tai otoshi. so easy, so useful

[judojedi]

I must disagree there, my friend. You are completely in control of your techniques and your strategy on the mat. If you are allowing your opponent to guide your strategy, you're not playing the right game.
Find what you know how to do really well, and make it work! This is what setups and combinations are for. :D

right, ok. if you can go into any fight and be completely in control, then i'll take my hat off to you. if your fighting someone equal to yourself then control will pass from you to him frequently. YES you are in control of your strategy, but against someone equal or equal-ish you'll never be in complete control of what techniques you can use.
when fighting someone, you need to get a 'feel' as to how they are moving and responding to the things you do. how they react, decides which move or technique you do. no-one can go into a fight against some equal to themselves and say 'right!, i'm gona do tai-toshi!' (or whatever technique) for example. this is what i mean by your opponent makes the decision for you.


Yup, if you only use attacks once your opponent is committed you are not really fighting fair, although counters are very important they should not be your only form of attack.
You must however tailor your attack to the way the fight is moving, analyze your opponents grip, there main throws etc

as i say above, i'm not just talking of counters. and what is fighting 'fair' ?
if you watch the olympics, you'll see there is no such thing.

[Captain_Coward]

In my experience i have fouhgt a number of people, usually people with a clear weight advantage who will make no attempt to attack, and will purely wait for you to attack and use there weight advantage to counter you. If someone will not attack then i don't really think that they are fighting fair, i mean if you both did it, then the fight would end as a draw and it is unfair for one person to have to attack to avoid a stalemate.

K

[Captain_Coward]

Both people in a fight should attack, I have fought people who have refused to attack merely sitting back pushing your grips off and waiting for you to make a wee attack they can counter. I don't think this is "fair" that one person has to make all the moves to ensure the fight is not a stalemate.

Its true the olympics were bad, there was a bad example i think it was Karina Bryant against a cuban who refused to fight for the last minute and a half, some people call it tactics, but accepting a win from a few Yuko's or Koka's really is not a true win i don't think.

K

[judojedi]

yea i agree with you that some fights may be considered unfair. And just down right crap when you have you have two counter fighters against each other.

yea i remember that fight against the cuban girl, how the hell did she avoid passive penanlties i'll never know.

[cgm]

Kimura = I dunno what the Japanese is ;) = Illegal in Judo MAP's Levo Applying Kimura (buy his videos! They're great!) (http://www.nathanleverton.com/stills/submissions_kimura.jpg)

Americana = Ude Garami = Legal

Pic


In judo americana and kimura are both called ude garmi. They are both legal in randori and competition. The Kimura is named after Masahiko Kimura, the judoka that defeated Helio Gracie.

[Freeform]

In judo americana and kimura are both called ude garmi. They are both legal in randori and competition.

Nope, by IJF and BJA rules the kimura version (elbow pointing towards opponets head) is illegal because it is considered a shoulder lock. If it was legal, you'd see people applying it to fighters who go turtle all the time.

[samuri-man]

well, we learn and use it over here. then again, we allow knees to the face and no headgear in amateur kickboxing matches, so maybe we are just "hardkore"

:D


"hardcore" my glutimus maximus we whooped the kiwi's in the cricket and the football so why would you be hardcore at anything else


i use gyaku-zuki with diai. :) :) like tai otoshi effective but deadly

[Ikken Hisatsu]

err cricket and football? who the hell cares? and as far as i remember, new zealand owned australia this year in the rugby tests. thats right. along with the poms. we probably won the netball as well but who gives a toss about netball.

and NOT TO MENTION how much of an ASSKICKING the aussies took in the latest k-1 max. gg on producing kickboxers who have no idea how to kick, we had to get in some russian guy because john wayne parr is your only good fighter (in either max or heavyweight) and you cant have an oceania champs consisting only of new zealanders.

[cgm]

I am still inclined to disagree. I am aware of the IJF rules which are the same for our local competitions (Cdn) and the focus on the elbow joint. I base my disagreement on:

- many texts show ude garami applied both ways. The ones I have on hand right now are Kodokan Judo pg 125 figure 42 and 43 show both directions from side control. Best Judo pg 140 again two pictures at the top show both directions from side control. Admittedly these two references contain material that is 20 years old.

- my sensei has taught me both directions. He is a continental ref, Shichidan and a Judoka for almost 60 years. Admittedly he is older than the above references.

- a common attack is when uke enters with low posture into the guard of tori. Tori captures uke and applies ude garami with elbow pointing to head of uke.

- another attack that positions the arm in a simliar position is a variation of hiza gatame = omoplata in BJJ omoplata (http://www.bjj.org/techniques/jacare/umaplata/)

- I attend a club where most provincial refs come in on a regular basis. I have applied kimura against them in side control with no complaints even though it is acknowledged that it can affect the shoulder. I have only had a warning for attempting kneeling ude garami like this (http://www.bjj.org/techniques/aranha/kimura/)

-I am fortunate to train with some people that compete internationally. These people are well versed in what they can get away with and I absorb moves from these people including kimura.

- I'd like to point out again that Kimura applied ude garami against Helio and broke his arm at the elbow joint.

In support of your post, when I first started judo I was told ude garami and shoulder pressure is a gray area for refs. Much like squeezing of the body when uke in your closed guard with the legs. It is illegal and it is up to the ref to determine a resilient closed guard or an actual body crush.

That being said, to answer the question I like sumi gaeshi into ude garami. Other techniques like uchi mata and harai goshi are favorites of mine.

[samuri-man]

err cricket and football? who the hell cares? and as far as i remember, new zealand owned australia this year in the rugby tests. thats right. along with the poms. we probably won the netball as well but who gives a toss about netball.

and NOT TO MENTION how much of an ASSKICKING the aussies took in the latest k-1 max. gg on producing kickboxers who have no idea how to kick, we had to get in some russian guy because john wayne parr is your only good fighter (in either max or heavyweight) and you cant have an oceania champs consisting only of new zealanders.



ha i don't watch k1 so it doesn't count and on the new yesterday quote: "the americans saw why the australiansare the rugby world chimpions" so there!!! hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[judojedi]

ha i don't watch k1 so it doesn't count and on the new yesterday quote: "the americans saw why the australiansare the rugby world chimpions" so there!!! hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CHIMPions are you? :D

whereas england are only the CHAMPions

maybe i should stay out of your colonial dispute though :rolleyes: :)

[Aegis]

Let's get back on topic please guys! ;)

[munkiejunkie]

yes, sam. get back on topic. just agree to disagree. It is not New Zealanders who are hardcore, it is Ikken's club who is.

[rtkd-badger]

Fight with your heart and not your ego

[samuri-man]

yes, sam. get back on topic. just agree to disagree. It is not New Zealanders who are hardcore, it is Ikken's club who is.


sounds fare i will if he will