Ukemigata Taihenjutsu/Breakfalling

[ninjabumon]

Does the ninja have his own form of breakfalling and rolling? You better believe it. If we had a heading or topic, we would call it Ukemigata Taihenjutsu. Under that, there would be several subheadings. Ukemi means breakfalls. Gata is an older translation of Kata. Taihenjutsu would represent body way, or body movement.

Here is what we have:

Kaiten-Zenpou Kaiten (Forward Roll)
Koho Kaiten (Back Roll)
Sokuho Kaiten (Side Roll)
Nagare-Taichi Nagare (Lateral Body Drop)
Yoko Nagare (Side Body Drop)
Jun Nagare (Backward Body Drop)
Gyaku Nagare (Twisting Body Drop)
Ukemi- Zenpou Ukemi (Forward Breakfall)
Koho Ukemi (Back Breakfall)
Sokuho Ukemi (Side Breakfall)

Oten- Cartwheels
Zenpou Tenkai- Front flip
Koho Tenkai- Back flip

Tobikomi - Leaping into a dive roll
Tobiori- Leaping over something and rolling when landing
Shoten- Running up obsticles or walls.

These are no ways all we do, but it will sure help you I hope.

Country Ninja,
Tracy Crocker

[Doug Tweedy]

Tracy,

I meant to tell you before, that one of the most interesting things about ukemi and rolling in this art is the application of strikes and kicks "hidden" in the rolls and breakfalls. These are aspects that I have never seen before in any of my prior MA experience. It is so great to see in this art all the views of techniques and see how many ways you can explore each of the techniques that we do. It goes back to the idea about the Kihon Happo. I love the concept of the "8" laying on it's side represents infinity. Eight versions of eight techniques. Eight versions of each of those eight versions...over and over endlessly. The learning cycle is endless. It isn't about MORE techniques, it's about UNDERSTANDING more indepth about each technique....

My thoughts on it anyhoo...

[Sonshu]

There are other breakfalls that other styles use that Taijutsu does not?

Its interesting to experiment and the ones we have are quality. Interesting point is as I cross train - Im a big guy 15st I can kaiten with little noise and small jujitsu people sound like rhino's

We are the silent rollers with no doubt - people often ask why I am so quiet!

Listen when you are with people of other arts - its good to hear!

SONSHU

[Shadow_Fox]

is a forward roll just a summersault?

[Darzeka]

Yeah - put both fists on the ground as you are crouching down.
Tuck in the head. Allow your body to roll. Then plant feet as close to your bum as possible and use the momentum to stand up.

Multiple, leaping forward rolls are fun. But be careful of the head and neck (keep it tucked in).

[Cougar_v203]

are backflips and frontflips really necessary in ninjutsu?

[Darzeka]

You can learn them if you want.
We don't need to - its just a thing from how agile you are.

They do look very cool though. I'm gonna try to learn them after my next grading and my shoulders finish healing.

They are useful as ways of moving around though and you can move very far with them. I wouldn't try one in the middle of a fight but running away? flip over the wall and you gain about 20 metres on the guy trying to climb it.

[Solane]

Hi Shadow_fox

Sorry to say a forward roll is not a summersault.

A summersault is where your whole body leaves the ground and does a complete rotation in the air.

A forward roll is as Darzeka mentioned a roll across the floor where you use 1, 2 or no hands depending on your skill level. But you are in contact with the ground the whole time you actually do the roll, the force of the ground is spread diagonally down the back from the lead shoulder across the back down to the opposite hip.

Beginners start by learning to use both hands to roll one slightly in front of the other, as you progress in skill and lvl you are taught to roll with one hand as the 2nd might be holding a weapon or injured or held by an opponent to finally no hands for the same reasons.

Learning to roll properly is very important in my belief and should be taught to all children in school. Being able to roll forward or backwards is important to stop you falling flat on your face or back and taking injures from a trip, fall or push etc.

Being able to roll has saved me from serious injurys in everyday life.
About 6 years ago when I was 25 I was out cycling with a friend in the summer and as we got near to his house, I was thrown over the handle bars onto a gravel road as the front brake broke off the frame and wrapped around the wheel.
There is a moment where everything goes into slow mo as your brain trys to catch up with what is happening at that moment, but then reality kicks in as I realised my face and head were about to meet the road, and instinct kicks in big style as I let go of the handle bars pushed off from the bicycle and went into a forwards roll. My legs got caught in the frame and the bicycle did not let go untill I was lying still on my back, My first thought was where my glasses were as I was not wearing them and they were brand new that week. I picked them up as they were next to me checked that they were fine & put them back on, it was at this point the pain kicked in and I heard my friend laughing his head off. I then stood up and he shut up as he saw all the blood.
Why blood?, because I was only wearing shorts and tee shirt as it was summer, I was also not wearing a bicycle helmet as they had only been out a few years were not compulsory and I had borrowed his dads bicycle.
Considering all the blood I looked worse than I was, I had a couple of bruises on my arms, knees, back and shoulder with cuts to my palms, left arm and right knee. With no head injuries. The bicycle was bent out of shape.

I firmly believe I received so few injuries because I was taught to roll and breakfall and they have become second nature to me. Otherwise I think I would have lost alot of my face and received huge head and neck injuries.

Thanks for reading my reply hope it was not to long. :)

Train safe and have fun

Solane

[Darzeka]

Solane, what you descibed with the roll is what we call a "side roll" where you will roll down one shoulder to the opposite hip.
I prefer to put one fist on the floor and scoop the other arm through to make the roll more easily controlled.

But a forward roll is basically a rolly-polly - something you did as a kid. From a normal stance crouch down, put both fists down evely spaced from your body then allow your arms to bend as you go over to prevent slamming your back on the ground and tuck your head in. As you finish the roll tuck your feet into your bum and use your momentum to stand up ( the closer your feet are to your bum the easier it is to stand up).

I wholly agree with the idea of rolls and breakfalls saving you once they are second nature. I had a mate spear takle me soon after I started training (we were drunk and didn't believe me spear tackles are dumb attacks) so as he tackled I got a headlock on and he did a clumsy leg lift takedown.
I kept the head lock on as he slammed he and breakfalled with the other arm. It was on uneven wooden decking and I managed to keep the headlock on without killing him as well. He still doesn't believe me though.

Solane, have you done any breaking rolls or breakfall rolls?

They are useful but hard to get the timing right.

[Solane]

Hi Dareka

Lol this could get fun, what a huge opportunity for missunderstandings. :)

I did 8 years of judo before taking a break and going to University then about 9 years of Ninjutsu. I have not trained for about a year so I am a bit rusty but that happens when you move jods :) I am an Orange 1 in Judo and 1st Dan in Ninjutsu I am not to bothered about grading and have missed loads over the years, I enjoy the training more than anything and it did keep me fit. I am based in the UK.

So I have had a lot of exposure to rolls and breakfalls.
Yes a rolly-polly is a forward roll.
But as Ninabumon says the roll that I explained was the "Kaiten-Zenpou Kaiten (Forward Roll)" and is what I think of as a proper forward roll as the judo forward roll is very similair. To me a side roll is a side roll where I stand facing you and roll to my left or right while still looking forward at you.

If I understand you right then yes I have done "breaking rolls or breakfall rolls" in the past and they can be very effective when used right.

I have always had trouble keeping the correct technique names with the technique, and seem to have forgotten a lot of the names but not the techniques themselves over the last 19 months of not practicing. I will need to brushup on them. :)

Solane

[eninpodotcom]

Originally posted by Cougar_v203
are backflips and frontflips really necessary in ninjutsu?

The "tenkai" or flips (front, back, cartwheel) are characteristic of Togakure Ryu which utilizes them quite frequently in its Taihenjutsu.

Whether they are required for rank or nor is strictly up to the instructor.

[Shadow_Fox]

so it doesn't really matter?

[eninpodotcom]

Asone poster stated before, it depends upon you ability level. You will get more credit for trying and doing improperly than you would not trying at all.

[Cougar_v203]

is a sokuho Kaiten basically a shoulder roll?

[Solane]

yes if you mean a side roll. The force of the roll goes across the back from one shoulder to the other. That is if I'm thinking of the correct technique. :)

Solane

[eninpodotcom]

The way I have been taught to do Sokuho Kaiten is to stand in Shizen no Kamae with your gaze fixed on a spot in front of you (your opponent) and do Katate Zenpo Kaiten to the right or left while maintaining this fixed gaze.

[Bruce Lee]

I was wondering this though in ninjutsu do you know how to climb on walls or run on them?

[Darzeka]

That is just something you can learn anywhere and is only useful if you are going to climb walls or run along them.

For the most part we learn a way of looking at your body, its possible movements and what affects it will have upon someone else and vice versa.

All the ninja "assassin" type of thinking stems from thier need to get into places quietly and easily. I have no need to climb walls or jump from roof to roof or poison people.
Wall climbing itself is something you can teach yourself and running along them is something derived from understanding your balance - which you get from training lots.

[Bruce Lee]

I thought all those stuff were only in movies.And do you think you can jump over s person who is like 6 ft tall or 5 ft is it possible I think Bruce Lee did.

[Cougar_v203]

if you kick them in the balls you can :D

[Bruce Lee]

Not like that If they are standing straight and you jump over them.

[Solane]

The only person I have seen do it was a black belt in the judo club I was in before starting Ninjutsu. Dave was 6ft + and the guy he jumped over was about 5.8ft tall he had his head slightly bent and Dave did clip him, But still well impressive. We all use to start the session by doing rolls and diving rolls over other students after the warm up. I have cleared about 4 to 5ft and then gone into a forward roll with a running start.
That was back when I was 17

Solane

[Darzeka]

I saw one of the guys at our dojo clear a bo held at about 5 foot high then land in a roll (he was horizontal as he went over the bo, not vertical). He started from stationary, standing in front of the bo then jumped.

Whats the world record high jump at the moment?

Jumping is just another thing you can train in doing well, I get about a foot and a half off the floor if I jump from standing without a grat deal of effort.

At the heart of most myths and legends there lies a truth. The same is true of ninjas. Even though hollowood cheesed out the max on the ninja movies, there needs to be a basis for that.

[Cougar_v203]

how can you tell how high you jump?

[Solane]

By knowing the height of the thing you are jumping over or onto or at least next to. :)

[Cougar_v203]

how bout if your not jumping over something and your just jumping in place?

[Solane]

Like I said by knowing the height of the thing you are jumping next to. i.e. a low wall that you know is 3ft high you stand next to it and jump up.
Helps if you have a friend telling you whether you have jump higher than the wall or the simple thing is to jump onto it.
If you are in a room measure the height by temporarily marking the wall every foot with pins, blue tack and low adhesive tape. Then get a friend to watch you jump and let you know how high you went.

PLEASE NOTICE I SAID TEMPORARY when marking the wall as I don’t want you posting in 2 days time saying you’ve got grounded by permanently marking the wall by ripping wall paper, painting the marks etc and that your parents, partner, spouse, brother, sister, leisure centre or dojo are now out for my blood.

If you ask for a simpler explanation than that I know you have been hit in the head to many times and probably walk around with a note on your head say “My name is Cougar please don’t be scared of me” and one on your back saying “If found please ring ########### or point in the direction of nearest police officer” :)

Also that I must be mad for explaining the blindingly obvious in the first place :)

Solane

[Cougar_v203]

ok thanks.

[Solane]

No prob Mate. Sorry about the sarcastic ending.
I don’t mind explaining something if you genuinely did not understand. But got to the end and wondered if you were trying to wind me up by asking me a question I thought had an obvious answer.

Train safe

Solane

[Cougar_v203]

i'm new to ninjutsu so yea I would have lots of questions to ask :)
don't be surprised to find the entire ninjutsu board filled with questions by me ;) don't have a heart attack though it may not have to come to that.

[sshh]

this thread has some good info on taihenjutsu skills; thought I'd bring it back to the top to get more discussions on the subject.

Would anyone like to share some of their favorite training drills for taihenjutsu / ukemi practice?

[Rus]

A quick question, I've trained with 3 different dojos, but collectively for just under 1 1/2 years and we use different names for the rolls and breakfalls..

mae kaiten/ukemi (forwards)
yoko kaiten/ukemi (side)
ushiro kaiten/ukemi (back)

I know they are only names, but does anyone know why this may be?

[sshh]

Generally speaking, the difference in names is a matter of choice as they are nearly synonyms.

From my brief and limited study of the Japanese language, I use the following translations for ukemigata terms:

[may have to adjust browser settings to read shift-JIS encoding to see the kanji].

受身Ukemi = passive, receptive (receiving with the body).
回転 Kaiten = rotation, turning, roll (a la rolling breakfall).

前Mae = before, i.e. before you in line / in front of you.
前方Zenpo (zempou – different spelling / more phonetic) = forward, i.e. in the direction you are facing.

Both of the above use the same kanji, but zenpo is more specific as a direction of travel, whereas mae is a location.

横Yoko = side / on the side / lateral surface (location)
側方Sokuhou = to the side (direction), not to be confused with速歩Soku Hou = fast-paced walking.

後Ushiro = back; behind; rear / opposite of mae.
後方 Kohou = backwards (Again, like mae vs. zenpo – same root kanji, but adding 方hou (direction) differentiates it from location).

流れ Nagare = flow, stream, current (moving like water) – same kanji as used for ryu = style, method, school.

横転Oten = turning sideways, barrel roll (like the fighter jet maneuver).

Tenkai = Kaiten (kanji are written and read in reverse, but meaning is the same.

I’ve seen kuten and kiten used for flips and handsprings, but I’m not sure of the kanji, and which term is used for which acrobatic maneuver.

逆Gyaku = reverse, inverse, opposite, retro-
跳Tobi = flying, leaping

Those are the most common ones, let me know if you need any other help with translations. I could use more practice with Japanese.

[dragon_bunny]

we have been taught to do forward rolls different from what i think you're discribing.
You start in a normal roll begining but in sted of putting your head on the floor and rolling over like a kiddy one you lean slighlty to your shoulder so it takes your weight insted of your neck.

unless thats what you ment then sorry :)

[Kalifallen]

Yeah, I learned those too dragon bunny. A lot less dangerous if you ask me.

Wondering? Are flips, handsprings or sommersaults? Just wondering because I'm not sure which ones they are talking about when they say "flip."

[dragon_bunny]

Yeah, I learned those too dragon bunny. A lot less dangerous if you ask me.

Wondering? Are flips, handsprings or sommersaults? Just wondering because I'm not sure which ones they are talking about when they say "flip."

our sensi is trying to teach us both sommersaults by just doing a sommersault on to a crash mat and handsprings by using a person on all fours as a base for our hands then we're ment to land on our feet... but personally i just keep landing on my arse .. not very elegant or ninja-y !

[Mordred]

our sensi is trying to teach us both sommersaults by just doing a sommersault on to a crash mat and handsprings by using a person on all fours as a base for our hands then we're ment to land on our feet... but personally i just keep landing on my arse .. not very elegant or ninja-y !

:D Sounds familiar!

I'm just not that good with gymnastics!

[Deshi]

I found that the biggest obstacle for me was the fear of going upside down - sounds odd but I always got just a bit disoriented when doing flips and rolls, and as it is I still end up on my backside when trying forward handsprings. I think I'm going to keep trying to jump from a lying down position (face up = supine, right?) and from there maybe my abs will get strong enough to help me finish the handspring with a little dignity...