Seven Star Praying Mantis anyone?

[keef]

Hi,

Im new to this board just found ya on the net! I study Seven Star Praying Mantis and am interesting in views and discussions with other practioners of this and other styles.

I`m from the UK so if my replies are late its cos of the time zones ;-)

[Melanie]

Welcome Keef,

Pleasure to have you here :)

I believe we have several practitioners on the forum in your MA - sadly I don't think they post very much but you are more than welcome to introduce all of us to your art.

Your welcome to send in to us any articles or interviews if you have any and please do place any events that are occurring in the Calendar area to give better exposure to your event.

I look forward to hearing more from you. :)

[johndoch]

Alright Keef,

Welcome to the forums theres quite a few kung fu guys here. I used to attend Lau gar before I left for a mixed style art so Iam probably not the most experienced KF to talk to.

So whats your style involve sparring, forms etc?

[kensai]

Its a great system. I have a book about the staff and flute techniques used in it.

[keef]

Thanks for the kind welcomes!

I will not pretend to be an expert or proficient at mantis as I have not been studying it enough yet but can give an insight to it. I will try and use language that non mantis practictioners understand.

The style is a mix of hard & soft techniques, rigid or flexible.

The body must be relaxed to perform the movements (something I aint the best at after doing TKD for many years) and is based around speed and using the openents energy rather than brute force. Instead of counter attacking the idea it to totally blitz very quickly the opponent. As the name suggests the arm movements are based on the praying mantis but the footwork is based on the monkey. The trade mark of the system is the mantis hands which can be used to do various things such as hooking, grappling & pulling the arms. Often one defends and attacks at the same time such as a upward block & punch, movement is also important and so dodges, bouncing etc are used. The kicks are trained at all sections high, mid & low but only high for balance training etc, majority are medium or low for combat effectivness. Stances are used for the traditional purposes (ie. horse stance whilst training arms) but also used in application, ie. a horse stance may change into a Hill Climbing/walking/forward stance behind the opponents leg ready to off balance for a take down, this leads on to the other parts of the art - joint locks etc.

Basically the techniques include hook, grapple, back fist, round house punch, upper cuts, st8 punches, elbows, knees, shoulder, wrist stikes, various palm stikes, locking, attaching, throwing, joint locks etc & many kicks.

There are over 40 forms including Chi Gung & Weapons which are many including, Broadsword, 6ft Staff, Tiger Hooks etc.

So as you can see it is a rounded style from long range to trapping techniques etc

Doc, reference sparring: So far it seems that we do sparring with boxing gloves on & without. With the gloves on it stops us using alot of the techniques but with the gloves off it is more mantis! I have been told the pure mantis competitions are very painfull and common injuries are dislocated elbows & shoulders due to the "plucking" movements involved within the system (Plucking is grapping the arm and pulling sharply towards yourself whilst going into a low stance furthering the pull normally followed with or simultanious attack". The system does have sparring but is mainly geared towards non sporting aspects.

If you want to know owt else then just ask :-)

P.S. I am only a beginner at this style so if any other Mantis guys are out there reading this maybe u can elaborate more than I.

Also I have the chance of learning Wing Chun also, if u r a mantis practioner do u know if this is necessary or not, I am not sure if it is because Mantis has plenty of trapping in it anyway.

Cheers.

[JessyBlue]

Hey,
you gave quiet a good impression of what your style is.
Well I think our styles have much in common.
We should meet for a little sparring. :)

[keef]

Hey Jessy,

That might actually be quiet possible some day as I try to visit Germany ever year at least once!

Keef

[pgm316]

Try a bit of WC if you get chance Keef, the principles seem similar, but I'm sure thats the same with many styles. From what I know (have done a little mantis), WC is a more modern streamlined version of Kung Fu, very efficient and with much of the animal influenced stylistics removed.

[keef]

PGM,

Yeah I will give it a try sometime, my mantis teacher did Wing Chun I think for about 15 yrs so may ask him to teach me some someday.

[Chinwoo-er]

Preying Mantis practitioner here :Angel:

[keef]

Hi Chinwoo-er,

Another practitioner :-)

What branch of mantis do you study, how long have you trained etc etc, it would be interesting to know your thoughts!

Speak to ya soon

Keef

[Chinwoo-er]

not much, just a few years on and off.

seven star mantis mostly. But have also touched on taichi mantis.
My thoughts ? definately ranks up on some of the most complex and powerful styles CMA has to offer.

[00SS]

Hi Keef -

Qi Xing Tang lang Quan practioner here as well.. you did a very good job of an explanation.. you and I are on the same page.

I'm actually taking my first grade next weekend..
My sifu also teaches Wing Chun.. but reccomends that we don't take both until a time that he see's that we are ready and proficent enough to seperate the two not-so-like forms.

They have some similarities.. but for the most part they are night and day.

what qwoon do you go to..? and who is your sifu?
Just curious is all.. most of us mantis guys are a pretty close knit bunch.

anyway, nice to meet you and welcome, I'm a fairly new member as well.

Devin.
btw: here is a link to my qwoon:

http://www.authentickungfu.com/

[Chinwoo-er]

Keef, 00SS, mind telling me how many forms you know ?

[00SS]

Hi Chinwoo-er
Right now 1.. (i'm new to Qi Xing) I studied Aikido for almost 4 years.. before that was TKD for a year and before that was golden gloves. But I think i finally found my nitch.. i will probably practice mantis for a really long long time.

When i metion that next weekend is my first grade.. my sifu doesn't start you with a grade (sash) at all.. you have to earn it and i'm fortunate that he decideded to teach me .. as sometimes after the first 3-6 months he decides wether he will train you at all.

[keef]

Hi OOSS,

My Kwoon is the Moi Fa academy (Doncaster/Sheffield UK) which is part of the Taijichuan & Shaolin wushu Association here in the UK. The lineage is as follows:

WANG LANG

1.SHENG XIAO

2. LI SAN JIAN

3. WANG RONG SHENG

4. FAN YU TUNG

5. LO KWANG YU

6. CHIU CHI MAN

7. LEE KAM WING

8. DEREK FREARSON

9. DAVE (my instructor)

I myself have only been doing the mantis style for 6 months now but it really does seem to suit my body type. I previously did TKD for about 6 years or so with a 2year break till now, I find because I am a short ass this suits me better and helps me to relax my body futher. I think the art is very nicely balanced, practicle techniques & theory, forms, chi gung, weapons etc etc.

I see that you also are intreged with the Wing Chun, my instructor also knows wing chun but does not teach it, he says he may do in the future. You obviously through your academy get to see both. My main reason for wanting to learn Wing Chun also is that it is classed as very practical but my instructor states that mantis is just as practical and to be honest I would miss the forms, chi gung, broadsword etc if I did just Wing Chun.

Chinwoo-er,

I only know the form Bung Bo but this has plenty in it for me to study for a long long time anyway :-)

Keef

[SliqueRICK]

i know a tinny but of mantis but im a xingyiquan guy

[keef]

Hi sliqueRick,

I presume you just mingled a bit in the mantis then, I see that your style is xingyiquan, can u alobrate on this, I am new to Kung Fu styles as I previously did TKD.

I presume you can give a bit of a comparison of differences/similarities of styles?

[SliqueRICK]

XingYiQuan also known as Hsing-i is an internal art that predates both tai chi and bagua it is a linear art that stresses power coming from the hips rather than the shoulders in its punches it has 5 element forms and 12 animal forms http://www.dragonslist.com/kwoon/ here are some videos but i noticed a difference in the opening than what i was taught oh and you may have also seen this in jet li's the one it was style use by yulaw

[keef]

Thanks for that Rick,

I have never seen Hsing-I in action before so will watch some of the vids, cheers for the link!

I think I have heard of it being called Mind & Body boxing in the past, I know that there is a guy in Leeds that teaches it.

So what is it that attracts you to your particular choosen style? Its certainly fascinating to watch the forms, the mantis forms I have come across so far are fast the total opposite to what I have seen of Hsing-I (well that of downloaded so far)

[SliqueRICK]

the forms there are shown slower you can also see it at http://www.hsing-i.com/pics/index.html im attracted to this because its an internal art it makes my chi stronger witch then strengthens my body also because i like the animal forms

[Darkflight]

Mantis, yes, but not Seven Star. I practise Plum Blossom, under Sifu Jago Auteri in Nottingham (England). I think it's the only place this style is taught in England, which is nice :)

[keef]

Hi Darkflight,

nice to here from another practioner and just around the corner from me (Doncaster), I dont know too much the differences between the Mantis sub-styles but they all have the same 12 keyword formula! Out of interest I presume you have the Bung Bo form?

How long have you been training for?

A good resource on mantis I have found is www.kungfumagazine.com go to the forum, there you will find a forum devoted to Northern Mantis!

Look forward to hearing from you

[Darkflight]

I've been training since July, and although i've done some research you'll forgive me for not knowing all the terms, Bung Bo? :)

Thanks for the link. Will let me kill some more time at work :)

[keef]

I forgive you ;)

Bung Bo is one of the original mantis forms (kata/pattern) and holds in it the theory of the mantis system. Our Kwoon teaches is early but others may teach it later, I was taught it as my first form, it has lots of application in it but I think also looks astestically pleasing.

[Darkflight]

We might have it under a different name. At my level (i'm a white belt) there are two Mantis forms and a longer kata. Can't remember the name, begins with 'T'.

[keef]

We do not have a belt system but have not been training that long in the mantis system, it surely does seem a great system from what I have been taught so far!

Hey maybe some day when can catch up and and then show each other the differences/indifferences between our forms and techniques!

Keef

[Darkflight]

'twould be a pleasure. I can't remember the colour run for the belts, but i'm fairly sure there's eight of them. Not that the system is based on achieving belts, or competitions, it's more like a program of self development. I love it :)

[SliqueRICK]

Yours is probably like my kung fu system they added belts for certification purposes

[pest]

hello everyone!
7 Star PM guy here. havent been training too long, about a year (not totally sure when i started) recently ive got interested Chin na and Tai chi.

anyone know some web sites devoted to Chin na applications and theories? also im looking for books about 7 Star PM and Chin na, can anyone recomend some titles?

[keef]

Hi & Welcome Pest! Nice 2 c another practioner.

I would be interested to know where you train and what lineage you are ?

I have to good Mantis books, "The secret of Seven Star Praying Mantis" is a good book by Lee Kam Wing and the form / Kuen photos as a begineer will be usefull to you, depending on your lineage, the Kuen includes Bung Bo.

Another good book is Seven Star Praying Mantis by Leung Ting and if you can get a copy Mantis Quarterly is a good read. www.mantisquarterly.com

Cheers

Keef

[pest]

hey
im not totally sure of my lineage, but i train in Ontario Canada.

i have the first 3 issues of mantis quarterly and i like them. where did u pick up your books? ive seen the one by Lee Kam Wing i belive but its hard to find them.

i was just wondering if u train outside ur school, and if u do what do you do? im just looking for more ideas myself.

talk to u soon
~Pest

[s00perb4k4]

Sorry, I don't study seven star. I do, however, study 8 step mantis. If that helps at all....

[keef]

Hi s00perb4k4,

I should have really posted it is Northen Praying Mantis rather than Seven Star Praying Mantis, my fault!

Where do u study 8 step and do you know the difference to 7*. As far as I am aware they are all pretty similar just some sub-styles specialise certain theory/techniques more than others

Keef

[s00perb4k4]

pretty much the basic differences (i think) lie in stance and actions... i'm pretty sure 7 star has a tall stance, and keep the back mantis hand away from the body a bit (right), whereas in 8 step we tend to stay as low to the ground as possible, ususally having our leg parallel to the ground, sometimes being just inches off the ground... also, i believe you jump around quite a bit more than we do... 8 step shot out the jumping for the most part, using it pretty much for exercise, except in a few of the later forms...

i think that's about it... i'll research it some and get back to you...

s00perb4k4

[El Tejon]

Greetings, fellow mantis boxers! Sorry about joining in so late.

Seven Star here; Sifu Funk's line. Good to see our fellows in the other branches present.

:cool:

[El Tejon]

OOSS, hello, cousin! How are thing in Tejas? I trust my Sibo is well. How do you enjoy him as your instructor? Have friends in Dallas, may make it down to train some day I hope.:)

[keef]

Hi El Tejon,

Great to meet yet another practioner and that the thread is still going :-)

Hope u and everyone else here had a good christmas and new year

Keef

[El Tejon]

keef, everyone is just fine, thanks. However, too warm here. Has been in the 50s/60s--far too warm to snow. Wanted to do some skiing.

Good to be here.

[keef]

That sucks, here in the UK we have indoor places with snow machines so we can board now ;-) but I would prefer the real thing!

Early this year I might pop over to france/germany/austria for a weeks boarding and the end of the year might check out some places around Seattle.

Keef

[RickyC123]

ive just came across this thread on google, im thinking about starting 7 star mantis which i think is by the same company as yours keef? a moi fa up here in newcastle, going from what ive read it sounds like it will be good, i have no martial arts experience and ive just been looking around for a good one to start, and i only have three choices, 7 star mantis, karate, and tkd, would this be hard to get into if i have no experience? what is the grading like?

[keef]

Hi Ricky,

I need to update my profile, as now I follow "Northern Mantis", rather than "Seven Star Mantis".

I have trained in all three of the arts that you mentioned. I did TKD up to 1st Dan, then went on to study Northern Mantis. The arts really are very different, therefore I would suggest trying both out and see what you like. It really is down to what you are wanting out of the art, what suits your mentality and what it right for you at this time in your life.

For me it is mantis all the way now, I find it more rounded, and more suited to my body type than TKD. Although I think it is fair to say, that it takes longer to learn Mantis, and for it to become natural instinct for you to use (but worth the extra time, IMHO). If you do start Mantis, my best advice is too not become obsessed with learning too many forms (mantis has a huge amount of forms), learn a few forms, learn the applications from them and use it.

I Have fun!

[RickyC123]

hi keef
what made you change to northern? i might be wrong but to me tkd seems a bit like kick boxing in a way, id rather the kung fu if im honest because ive always loved the flowing movements of it, and its one of those things that when ever i see it done i think i wish i could do that, i was actually going to go to karate but while i was searching on google i found out about moi fa teaching kung fu n it swayed me to want to do that, i was thinking about learning them both with them being on different days but i dont know, i would probabley get mixed up

[Late for dinner]

Greetings, fellow mantis boxers! Sorry about joining in so late.

Seven Star here; Sifu Funk's line. Good to see our fellows in the other branches present.

:cool:


Just out of interest, since Jon is a student of Sifu Al Cheng why do you list Jon rather than Sifu Cheng or his teachers as the lineage you follow??

It is interesting to see how different kung fu systems organise themselves. I am not that familiar with how the mantis organisations are sorted but it just seemed odd.

Thanks

powchoy

[CFT]

@RickyC

Are you talking about sifu Paul Tennant? He's got a lot of kung fu training under his belt, and pretty open minded about effective training from previous conversations. You'd be in good hands.

[GB-UK]

hi keef
what made you change to northern? i might be wrong but to me tkd seems a bit like kick boxing in a way, id rather the kung fu if im honest because ive always loved the flowing movements of it, and its one of those things that when ever i see it done i think i wish i could do that, i was actually going to go to karate but while i was searching on google i found out about moi fa teaching kung fu n it swayed me to want to do that, i was thinking about learning them both with them being on different days but i dont know, i would probabley get mixed up

If your training with Sifu Paul Tennet, then you've made a great choice! He's got so much going on in Moi Fa I don't know how he manages to fit it all in!! Mind I'm bias as he's my Sifu :cool:

[keef]

I agree that Paul Tennet certainly has a lot of experience, in and around Newcastle i'm sure it would be a good choice.

Sorry for any confusion Ricky, Seven Star mantis is a type of Northern Mantis, buy my sifu just calls what we practice as Northern Mantis.

My best advice is give it a go and have have some fun, then come back here and tell us about it :)