Basic strength training terms & concepts

[Knight_Errant]

There've been a lot of quite basic weightlifting questions recently, and I thought I'd draw them all into one tight thread to clear everything up.

First, a few basic terms.

Failure- the point where a trainee is not able to complete another rep of a given exercise.
1 rep max (1RM)- the maximum amount of weight a trainee is able to lift in one repetition.
Volume- the 'amount' of training you do. Either in terms of one workout (sets and reps) or in terms of an entire week (sets).
Hypertrophy- the process by which a muscle grows. Of which;
Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy involves the fluid surrounding the actual muscle fibres
Myofibrilar hypertrophy involves the muscle fibres themselves.

Next, a few home truths about weightlifting.
1. In order to become stronger, you need to be lifting weights close to your 1RM. Light weights, with the exception of explosive lifting, may be good for cardio, but don't come into strength training at all.
2. By definition, if you're lifting big weights like that, you won't be able to complete many repetitions. I'm sick to death of having to deal with idiots who think you should be doing light weights for a huge number of reps. God knows where this myth came from. With brings me to;
3.TONING IS A MYTH. Your muscle 'tone' is determined by the amount of muscle there and your body fat percentage. Lifting tiny weights for lots of reps for 'tone' is a red herring.
4. The keyword for increasing strength is progressive resistance. I.e. adding weight to your exercises. Whatever your approach to volume, you need to be adding weight to see gains.

A few approaches to volume.

HIT or High Intensity Training.
This revolves around very short, full-body workouts, reaching failure every time, and allowing for plenty of rest in between workouts- i.e. one or two sessions a week. Currently enjoying a great vogue amongst the martial arts community.

Bodybuilding 'splits'.
This approach will have you working 1 body part out a week, allowing you to fit in more sets. Doing as much as 20 sets for the arms is not uncommon. This approach is currently undergoing widespread discredit, and rightly so. This amount of overtraining will not produce results in the majority of trainees.

'Greasing the groove'.
This approach to volume involves lifting regularly, without failure. Typically, you'll do a large number of workouts- as many as 3 a day.

German volume training.
Involves selecting one exercise and repeating it for 20 sets. close to the end, your body actually undergoes a kind of neural 'bounce-back' and your reps go up- that's the rumour, anyway.

The old fashioned way.
3 full body workouts a week. Big lifts.

Exercises.
Basically, i want to clear up the points on technique that have been cropping up recently. Take a good look at the write-up links I've listed for each exercise.

The squat.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=Barbell+Squat
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459775

The bench press
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/PectoralSternal/BBBenchPress.html
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459808

Deadlifts
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/exercises.php?Name=Barbell+Deadlift
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/casi4.htm

I've alread covered chins and dips in detail here;
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21806

If anybody has any exercises they're unclear on, please bring them up in THIS thread rather than starting a new one.

A few links;
Totality's guide to lifting teh weights
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9963
The home of beyond brawn, bastion of natural, drug-free training
http://www.hardgainer.com
T-nation, fast becoming the internet's favourite strength training resource
http://www.t-nation.com

And we're done.

[YODA]

Great post :D

[Ad McG]

Yeah, great post. The last couple of links are broken:


A few links;
1onefighting's guide to lifting teh weights
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/fo...ing+teh+weights
The home of beyond brawn, bastion of natural, drug-free training
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/fo...ing+teh+weights

[Knight_Errant]

Fixed- I also got the poster wrong :o

[binski20]

Bodybuilding 'splits'.
This approach will have you working 1 body part out a week, allowing you to fit in more sets. Doing as much as 20 sets for the arms is not uncommon. This approach is currently undergoing widespread discredit, and rightly so. This amount of overtraining will not produce results in the majority of trainees.



That depends on the goal of the training.

[harhar]

sticky and say "we kick your ass if you dont read this before posting"

[Knight_Errant]

That depends on the goal of the training.
You're right- if your goals are overtraining, muscular imbalance and dissapointment, it's a great program :)

[JohnnyX]

Excellent stuff KE. http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/images/icons/icon14.gif

[binski20]

That depends on the goal of the training.

Should also mention high set workout schemes shouldnt be jumped into. Many bodybuilders could perform 20 sets no problem due to their past experience. Any faults in musuclar balance will come from the hands of the person not adaquately working all muscles.

[Knight_Errant]

I still think it's massive overkill. 20 sets using maximal weights is pretty much impossible unless you're prepared to involve sissy isolation exercises. Why bother? why not just stick to a protocol that involves big, compound movements and doesn't involve overtraining?

[Sever]

Excellent guide, thanks very much

[binski20]

I still think it's massive overkill. 20 sets using maximal weights is pretty much impossible unless you're prepared to involve sissy isolation exercises. Why bother? why not just stick to a protocol that involves big, compound movements and doesn't involve overtraining?

For general strength for sports or other martial arts you are absolutely right.

For bodybuilding, yes these types of workouts are neccesary. Which is why I said it depends on the goal.

[TkdWarrior]

man were u drunk on these threads mate?
anyways u write wayyyyyy better when u r drunk... :D
great post..
-TkdWarrior-

[binski20]

All of that aside though, good post. There is alot of misinformation out there about weightlifting and this helps with that.

[Shortfuse]

Nice post, it cleared up a few more questions i had on differant ways of training

[Wesker]

Dumb question: will doing heavy weights for low reps build some muscle? My first priority is increasing my strength, but it'd be nice to add a few pounds too.

[Ad McG]

Dave Tate - one of the best powerlifting coaches in the world. They aim solely for strength and do tons of low rep work. New students under him routinely gain 20-30lbs of muscle per year, training only for powerlifting. If you eat enough, you will put on muscle.

[Knight_Errant]

Dumb question: will doing heavy weights for low reps build some muscle? My first priority is increasing my strength, but it'd be nice to add a few pounds too.
Yes, it will. Sooner or later, the muscle has to grow larger to exert more force.

[YODA]

Strength = muscle.

Live with it :D

[Lanakin]

You know that power dealt has to do with mass.. Right? And the mass has to have somewhere to go... You figure it out.

:woo:

[Colucci]

Dumb question: will doing heavy weights for low reps build some muscle? My first priority is increasing my strength, but it'd be nice to add a few pounds too.

If the volume (total sets + reps done) is high enough, yes, size will follow. McG's right, Tate and the Westside Barbell crew are known for being big, strong mofo's. But Chad Waterbury is also a fan of working with low reps, heavy weights, many sets (10+ per exercise is common). As seen here (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=244anti2)

P.S. - Wesker, there are no dumb questions, only dumb trainers. :D

[ThaiMantis]

You know that power dealt has to do with mass.. Right? And the mass has to have somewhere to go... You figure it out.

:woo:

Power does have to do with Mass.

I was taught E=MC2 In relation to this. where E is the energy of the strike, M is the mass, and C is velocity (squared)

so, if you double the mass in the equation, the energy E will double.
but if you double the speed, because that figure is then squared, you get four times the energy.

is strength really that important, and in particular if it is at the cost of speed of delivery?

for example what kind of weights do you think Bruce lee was lifting for strength? i dont know if he ever went to a gym?

..he may have, like i said, i dont know, but i dont think he lacked power for his size, and i think it was speedwork he focused on?

[Cownose]

Strong muscles make you faster. Bruce Lee did go to the gym, and he did lift heavy weights.

[animefreak88]

Power does have to do with Mass.

I was taught E=MC2 In relation to this. where E is the energy of the strike, M is the mass, and C is velocity (squared)

so, if you double the mass in the equation, the energy E will double.
but if you double the speed, because that figure is then squared, you get four times the energy.

is strength really that important, and in particular if it is at the cost of speed of delivery?

for example what kind of weights do you think Bruce lee was lifting for strength? i dont know if he ever went to a gym?

..he may have, like i said, i dont know, but i dont think he lacked power for his size, and i think it was speedwork he focused on?

the equation E=MC2 [size=2] is a chemistry equation, where C is the speed of light and M is the mass defect of when subatomic particles form an atom. The equations derived from Newton's laws of motion relate to strength training more. Mainly the following two equations:

F=ma where F is force, M is mass of the object in question, and A is the acceleration of that object.

and the algebraic manipulation of this equation also gives us the equation
a=F/m where a is still acceleration, F is still force, and M is still mass. More acceleration equals more speed. as shown by the first equation, more mass equals more force. Now, granted, acceleration may not increase if the mass increase balances the force increase (as shown through the 2nd newton equation), but acceleration at the least won't decrease and you'll still have more force which is more strength, and that's more strength without losing speed. But, by lifting heavier weights, the muscle fibers recruited tend to increase force production more than mass, so both acceleration and strength increase.

as long as you stretch properly, strength training will not decrease speed, and will more than likely increase it.

as for bruce lee, yes he was an avid exerciser who did weightlifting, cardio, and speed drills with his techniques. but i don't recommend training like he did, mainly because how he avoided overtraining is beyond me. check out the stuff in Knight Errant's links, and stick to that stuff.

[ThaiMantis]

hmmm. I always like it when someone is better informed than me.

so, what would be the effect on impact energy of doubling speed, and then mass and measuring impact force? i cant do the maths, it's midnight :)

[blessed_samurai]

I've posted the link a few times...Bruce Lee DID NOT lift heavy weights. I wonder if that poor guy will ever get any rest.

I think it's amusing that a dead guy is our link to what is correct and what is not, expecially since exercise science has come a long way since Bruce's time.

[MattN]

I never cared much for those physics formulas. Woo! force equals blah blah blah, how does that help you?
like in BeWater's sig
"Get stronger and everything else will take care of itself." - Dave Tate.

Sticky this thread! pleeeeeeeeease

[Poop-Loops]

I vote sticky.

PL

[YODA]

I think it's amusing that a dead guy is our link to what is correct and what is not, expecially since exercise science has come a long way since Bruce's time.

Totally baffles me mate :confused:

[YODA]

Stickied - and title changed to somehting more applicable.

[ThaiMantis]

im sorry i dont know what sticky means. but a couple of things?

i know exercise science has come on a long way since BL & i don't idolise him, nor base my training on him in any way, hence my lack of info about his training habits..

... he was just a good example that sprang immediately to mind of speed being the essence of power in punching.

i'm no expert in his training regimes, but it strikes me his power was far more a product of the speed of the blow, than of mighty weight lifting muscle strength.

And as for a basic formula, if it indicates that improving speed will have a larger increase in the power of the strike than increasing the weight (strength) behind it, I fail to see how you think that can't help you?

the analogy that springs to mind now is the old "would you rather be hit by a truck doing 5 miles per hour, or a car weighing one tenth of the truck, but doing ten times the speed?"

still each to his own.

[YODA]

And as for a basic formula, if it indicates that improving speed will have a larger increase in the power of the strike than increasing the weight (strength) behind it, I fail to see how you think that can't help you?


Speed is a factor of how much force a muscle can exert and how quickly.

The "how much force" factor is called strength.

Strength is proportional to the cross sectional artea of the muscle fibres.

Compare physiques - Olympic sprinter and marathon runner. Do you see where this is going?

[ThaiMantis]

Good point, and well made as usual…


..And sorry to hark on here, but I am genuinely confused about this, and always like to keep one eye on the bigger picture and the overall principles of what I’m working towards, rather than wake up one day an extremely strong but end-result compromised individual, through incorrect training.

In essence you’re “preaching to the converted” as I do once-weekly “strength-only” training, along with twice weekly “complex” gym training sessions based on Military circuit-training techniques and weights, for explosive power, plus the cardio work (at least 3x 5mile runs per week, of either base cardio (steady) or intervals combined with distance work etc.

I am playing Devil’s Advocate here to an extent, because I always wonder about the scathing attitude of the Chinese for example (my SPM Sifu, for one) to Gyms and Gym-Built muscle in general. The strength & power training done in SPM for example is achieved in Power-Conditioning drills and is essentially of an endurance nature (and I know people are offended by that word) but they definitely work.

I have watched my SPM Sifu demonstrating Chi Sau and conditioning exercises against hugely strong guys ( in the western sense of the word ) ..who with all their strength training were scarcely able to move the arm of the much smaller guy, and who wouldn’t even have time to blink, never mind flinch, had he decided to take them out.

But I find I have to work really hard to even maintain current speed levels, never mind improve, when I’ve been doing strength work. It may be an illusion, but that’s how if feels?

And coming back to the speed thing once more, as correctly pointed out by Animefreak88, i was on the wrong formula. i needed this one, for kinetic energy, ..energy contained in a moving object. although the gist is the same. It's explained thoroughly on this site


http://id.mind.net/~zona/mstm/physics/mechanics/energy/kineticEnergy/kineticEnergy.html (http://id.mind.net/~zona/mstm/physics/mechanics/energy/kineticEnergy/kineticEnergy.html)



but i''ll go into it a little for anyone who can't be bothered to look, as below..

EK = (1/2)mv2

Example Calculation

How much kinetic energy does an object have if its mass is 5.0 kg and it is moving at a speed of 4.0 m/s? Formula for kinetic energy.is

EK = (1/2)(5.0 kg)(4.0 m/s)2

Plug in values for mass and speed.

EK = 40 J

have a play about with the figures and you'll see that kinetic energy gains made by speed increases have a doubling up effect in final energy contained.

&... so i wonder if the abilty to bench 150kg a few times is really what I need to develop more power in a strike, or should I be repeating the action a thousand times until my arms feel like lightening fast springs from doing that exact movement until it feels like that's what my arms were hung on my body for?

I do see your point in that bigger muscles should be able to accelerate my fists to greater speeds, but it doesn't feel like that, it feels like you have to cncentrate on letting go the of the strength and releasing the muscle tension completely to get the real speed and hence that devastating impact available to even slightly built guys who have the technique correct, but have never been in a gym in their lives?

[Knight_Errant]

The problem being that speed is actually generated by the muscles- smaller, weaker muscles= less speed= less kinetic energy.
What's more, big, strong guys have this annoying tendency to have good technique.

[Colucci]

First off, Mantis, you're waaaaaaaaaaay overthinking this. The moment we start discussing physics equations in relation to weight-lifting, something's gone wrong. There are other solutions, and they don't require calculators.

Secondly, you're crazy font and color hurt my head to read, thanks. :rolleyes:


... so i wonder if the abilty to bench 150kg a few times is really what I need to develop more power in a strike, or should I be repeating the action a thousand times until my arms feel like lightening fast springs from doing that exact movement until it feels like that's what my arms were hung on my body for?

Neither, actually. You want to be lifting a moderately-heavy (8-10 rep max weight) at an explosively fast tempo, for a whole bunch of low-rep sets. For example, let's say your maximum bench press is 200 pounds. I'd suggest using 120 pounds for 8 sets of 3, moving the weight crazy fast on the positive (when you lift the weight). That will recruit the proper muscle fibers necessary to develop truly explosive strength and speed.

To steal an analogy from Louie Simmons: If I stand in one spot and throw a bowling ball, a baseball, and a ping pong ball, which will go farthest? The bowling ball contains too much mass to generate decent speed. The ping pong ball is too light to allow us to apply the most force. The baseball is the best compromise, we can apply maximum force (strength) and that will generate maximum results (distance/speed).

Similarly, if we take 300 pounds and work on our bench press, we're not going to be moving it fast enough to predouce speed gains. If we simply throw lightning-fast pounches in the air, there's no resistance being worked against, and no reason to recruit more muscle fibers into the movement. But by taking a sub-maximal (50-60% 1RM) weight, and moving it as fast as possible, we can develop the type of speed-strength we're looking for.

"Dr. Squat" Fred Hatfield calls this Compensatory Acceleration Training, and he's the first man to squat over 1000 pounds. Louie Simmons uses similar training with the Westside Barbell Club, and they have over a dozen guys who can bench and/or squat over 800 pounds. This type of training is specially designed to make all these athletes faster, because faster means stronger.

[Cownose]

You want to be lifting a moderately-heavy (8-10 rep max weight) at an explosively fast tempo, for a whole bunch of low-rep sets.

Sorry to take this off topic, but I was wondering what percentage of your bodyweight should you be able to bench before you do that kind of stuff? I heard that for lower body you should be able to squat 1.5x your bodyweight before doing plyometrics, but I never heard anything about upper body.

[Long_Distance_R]

One Part about your post. Where you said sometin on "Toning."You said light weight with lots of reps are no good. For example my max on bench is 150lbs. and if I wannted a more cut look wouldn't I decrease my weight to 115 or sometin then do 12 reps?

[Knight_Errant]

No, you wouldn't. You'd do more cardio.

Sorry to take this off topic, but I was wondering what percentage of your bodyweight should you be able to bench before you do that kind of stuff? I heard that for lower body you should be able to squat 1.5x your bodyweight before doing plyometrics, but I never heard anything about upper body.
Depends if we're actually doing plyometrics or explosive lifting. If it's simply explosive lifting, you can do that at any stage of preparedness. For plyometrics, benching your weight is a good benchmark.

[JKD_forever]

Good thinking Vicious Freak to post this,
I would just like to add few points if that's ok with you,

There is a difference between explosiveness and speed. Explosiveness or acceleration of any movement, such as punch or kick for that matter is measured as a total amount of force allied in a shortest possible time. Although closely related, acceleration and speed are two different things, and training for those characteristics is different too. Some sprinters have excellent start, but after 50-60m. They are outrun by faster sprinters even though they had slower start.
As a martial artist, your primary concern should be explosiveness, and the training that goes with it. Heavy resistance exercises do not influence the velocity of nonresisted movements with the exercised limb nor the reaction time measured for that limb. So, in short, the speed of single nonresisted movements is not going to be improved by exercising with relatively heavy weights. Heavy resistance exercises will only help the speed of movements against considerable resistance, as recent research showed. However, training with very heavy resistance in low rep (2-4) and high set (4-6 [although 10 is ok, it put emphasis on strength endurance as well] ) help recruit as much of your fast twitching muscle fibers as possible, and develops explosiveness. Doing 1 rep. and many sets (12) can and should be done sparingly. Training with maximal resistance should be done is a such ay that it DOESN'T bring mental fatigue as well. Many people forget about this and they try to lift more than they can (in normal calm mental state). Mental fatigue can be worst than physical, and usually is when dealing with extremely heavy weights.
BUT, heavy resistance training is not an end in itself - eventually an athlete's maximal strength increases so much that all the curve increase happens later than the time available for action, i.e fraction of sec of punch initiation. So, further increases of maximal strength probably will bring no improvements in explosiveness (EVEN though your absolute strength may progress, this is very different). From that point on, the key to improvement lies in shifting the curve by explosive strength exercises, one of them famous plyometrics.

On the subject of muscle gains and hypertrophy - Training in fashion which brings most absolute strength , i.e. activate muscle fibers, can never induce muscle breakdown as much as training with more reps less sets and moderate weights can, i.e. 4 x 8 or 3 x 12 with ~ 80% of 1 RM. Of course it doesn't mean that you will not experience hypertrophy, just that it will be much slower. SO, the point it, everything has it's time and place in martial arts. Including lifting for hypertrophy for a period of few weeks or months, SO that when you return to your absolute strength training regime (which, shouldn't be exercises for a long period of time) , your absolute strength will improve (because as you know bigger muscle, if trained properly will have greater absolute strength than smaller, or should I say, it will be easier to achieve one).
Why do you think so many athletes have a period of hypertrophy program, followed by strength regime? You must divide your year plan accordingly. You can’t train each week each months each year exactly the same. No athletes does.
One month you will concentrate on hypertrophy, going maybe 4 times to the gym, next month you will concentrate on strength so you will go maybe 3 day per week, after that to maintain the abs. strength you will go 2 days per week, so that you can concentrate 4 days on plyometrics. This is much more beneficial, AS science showed as well.

[ThaiMantis]

[QUOTE=BeWaterMyFriend]First off, Mantis, you're waaaaaaaaaaay overthinking this. The moment we start discussing physics equations in relation to weight-lifting, something's gone wrong. There are other solutions, and they don't require calculators.

Secondly, you're crazy font and color hurt my head to read, thanks. :rolleyes:

lol, beware the power of the Mantis Font.. :)

Neither, actually. You want to be lifting a moderately-heavy (8-10 rep max weight) at an explosively fast tempo, for a whole bunch of low-rep sets. For example, let's say your maximum bench press is 200 pounds. I'd suggest using 120 pounds for 8 sets of 3, moving the weight crazy fast on the positive (when you lift the weight). That will recruit the proper muscle fibers necessary to develop truly explosive strength and speed.

QUOTE]

..interesting.. have to disagree about the physics, it's the basis of the whole world, and the fundamental basis of everything we see.

aside from that though, hadn't really thought about the middle route you suggest.

ive been doing strength sessions (i.e. benching my max at 3x sets of 6-8 reps @ 120kg .. 265lb ) intersperced with compound sessions (2x 10 reps @ 80% max weight followed by explosive 40% weight @ high reps) & shadow boxing & KF on non gym nights.

will give it a try, ..see if i feel less worried about gaining strength over speed.

cheers :)