fighting multiple opponents on a hill.

[leo]

ok im posting this due to something that nearly happeend earlier while walking home, the road up to my house is long and quite steep and i was carryign a heavy bag, comeing down the road were members of a local gang 3 boys and 2 girls, the boys looked well in the mood for a fight and one was even practicing his boxing while walkign down the road. Luckily nothing happened becasue i turned into my own house while they were just approaching my next door neighbours house, but it made me think, I am at several disadvantages if i fight now
1) i am below them on a fairly steep hill
2) i have to get a heavy bag off my shoulder (single strap)
3) im out numbered (and cant hit girls)

if you had gotten into a fight in this scenario, what would you have done?

[LilBunnyRabbit]

1) i am below them on a fairly steep hillMeaning that you're ahead of them for when you run away.

2) i have to get a heavy bag off my shoulder (single strap)Meaning you've got something to swing or throw at them to make them hesitate before you turn and run.

3) im out numbered (and cant hit girls)Okay, can't be much help here other than saying that if girls are hitting you, hit them back.

[leo]

Meaning that you're ahead of them for when you run away.

Meaning you've got something to swing or throw at them to make them hesitate before you turn and run.

Okay, can't be much help here other than saying that if girls are hitting you, hit them back.
i can understand what you mean, but im afraid this isnt practical, i couldnt run because i had a big bag, they would have caught up easily and i couldn't leave it becasue it counatined a 200 pound camera and a years worth of work. After the encounter i did think that perhaps i could have ducked under the punch got the strap of my shoulder and shot up with an upper cut, then i would have to deal with the rest of them by somehow getting higher ground, what are your views on that method?
as for hitting them with the bag well ill have to try that could be very awkward tho and it would have to be to the groin :D

[Scarlet Mist]

ok im posting this due to something that nearly happeend earlier while walking home, the road up to my house is long and quite steep and i was carryign a heavy bag, comeing down the road were members of a local gang 3 boys and 2 girls, the boys looked well in the mood for a fight and one was even practicing his boxing while walkign down the road. Luckily nothing happened becasue i turned into my own house while they were just approaching my next door neighbours house, but it made me think, I am at several disadvantages if i fight now
1) i am below them on a fairly steep hill
2) i have to get a heavy bag off my shoulder (single strap)
3) im out numbered (and cant hit girls)

if you had gotten into a fight in this scenario, what would you have done?

If you had gotten into a fight you would have been stupid. You would have had your ass handed to you probably. And why can't you hit girls? A girl may do as much harm as a guy, if you were serious about defending yourself you wouldn't think in such a manner.
The way I see it, there was no way you could have won. And sinc you couldn't run with the heavy bag with a years work, your only option would have been to comply with whatever they asked.

Either that or pull out your 44 and tell them to back down before they get smacked down.

I guess you didn't have your 44 on you.

[redsandpalm]

Obviously if they want to beat the hell out of you, then you can't comply with what they want. I get the situation you're describing and it's definitely a toughy. I'd say in future try not to carry a years work around with you that isn't backed up in any way. Then at least you could've run if you had to. If they tried to fight with you, the hill isn't as much a problem as the fact that there are 5 of them. I am unaware of your ability to handle them, so assuming 5 people will beat you I would say talk your way out of it, and if that doesn't work then give as much as you can and don't make it easy for them. Unless you can take them then there are no easy answers in that type of situation.

[hazzamoffin]

Not a noce situation. From my position of having just started martial arts again after a long break (so effectively a newbie again) i can only say what i'd try in your situation.

Before the start of any confrontation where you can't run i'd make certain i wasn't going to be hindered. In your case this would mean having the bag at my side and off the shoulder so it could be easily dropped. (when the time to fight comes preferably dropping it at the feet of one your opponents. He'll prob step over it easily, no damage, and it'll give you a bit more time)

First off is definetly to talk your way out of it. When doing this, and this was taught to me by an old TA mate, you've got to analyse the conversation. You need to realise when its gonethe point of no return and fists are going to get involved. From here, is i'm now lacking skill although it was still applicable when i was good, the key is to get a viciuos as you can as fast as you can. Neck shots and, if you hit hard enough, shots to the sternum can wind people. Spitting biting and groin grabs are also good.

But overall, your probably going to get hurt but put them down as fast as you can, and never stop. The only person who decides when a fight mis over is the person who wins. Always make sure its you, even if it doesn't feel like it.

[leo]

If you had gotten into a fight you would have been stupid. You would have had your ass handed to you probably. And why can't you hit girls? A girl may do as much harm as a guy, if you were serious about defending yourself you wouldn't think in such a manner.
The way I see it, there was no way you could have won. And sinc you couldn't run with the heavy bag with a years work, your only option would have been to comply with whatever they asked.

Either that or pull out your 44 and tell them to back down before they get smacked down.

I guess you didn't have your 44 on you.
lol, no beign in the uk i wasnt carrying a 44, i cant hit girls becasue i just cant its pyschological. also as others have said after you, avoiding a fight like that is near impossible, ppl attack you for fun here they dont necisarrialy want anything and if they do want somethig then they beat you up first then take whatever they wanted, they dont usually ask first.

[tommy]

ok im posting this due to something that nearly happeend earlier while walking home, the road up to my house is long and quite steep and i was carryign a heavy bag, comeing down the road were members of a local gang 3 boys and 2 girls, the boys looked well in the mood for a fight and one was even practicing his boxing while walkign down the road. Luckily nothing happened becasue i turned into my own house while they were just approaching my next door neighbours house, but it made me think, I am at several disadvantages if i fight now
1) i am below them on a fairly steep hill
2) i have to get a heavy bag off my shoulder (single strap)
3) im out numbered (and cant hit girls)

if you had gotten into a fight in this scenario, what would you have done?

Only one thing to do besides trying to talk your way out. You take who you perceive to be the toughest ( the guy shadow boxing), and strike hiom hard and fast..demolish him. This should scare the crap out of the others...

[Scarlet Mist]

lol, no beign in the uk i wasnt carrying a 44, i cant hit girls becasue i just cant its pyschological. also as others have said after you, avoiding a fight like that is near impossible, ppl attack you for fun here they dont necisarrialy want anything and if they do want somethig then they beat you up first then take whatever they wanted, they dont usually ask first.

Then my friend, you must do what you must. If cats don't want anything from you besides your blood then that changes everything. Maybe you could have hidden the bag in preparation to run like hell.
Are things like iron pipes illegal as well? Because if cats are gonna threaten you and you're gonna get into a fight with them maybe it doesn't hurt to be prepared. The flip side is that by including a weapon you up the stakes.

[Maverick]

Scarlet, while in a perfect world, he could have took out his .44 (I prefer 9mm) and blew them away, or bludgeoned them to death with a pipe, it's not really feasible in the UK. Perhaps Colombia, lol. The problem is, when it's a gang, and not just a one-off assault (where I would agree, go all-out in defense) the attackers are likely to have friends, friends with a lot less to lose than him, or family members who are equally worthless, who would possibly do serious damage to him/his family/his house in the future. FYI iron pipes are legal, hitting someone with one isn't. Gangs never play fair, it's in their scummy nature. And just imagine the trouble he'd get in by hitting a girl, that wouldn't go down too well with the gang would it.

In these situations, running is always the best solution. It really is unfortunate, but it's just the way it is.

[Punchy]

I have been in a situation like this and did handle it successfully. There were 6 young guys (about 20) who got on the train I was on and wanted to throw me (aged 55) out of a door while it was travelling. Just for fun. I could not get away as the next stop was about 15 minutes away. I had been boxing for some years and, once the situation was unavoidable I stepped in and punched the ring leader in the mouth with a hard left jab. By this time I was angry and ready for the fight. However they stopped yelling and backed off. I was quite surprised but got off unscathed at the next stop.

In retrospect I think (if you can't get away) you need to get in first with a hard attack as this alters the perceived risk balance. At the start they have numbers and perceive you as vulnerable. So they are full of fight. Once they find you have attacked successfully their perceived risk balance changes as they are now facing a hard target. I guess that if they have to get together with friends and find someone they guess cannot fight before fighting then they are probably not that skilled or courageous. I have seen this before where getting in first gets people out of seemingly impossible situations.

I think that you need to

1. Get in first;
2. Use a simple, quick technique (eg punch)
3. Get away as soon as there is an opening.
4. Guard your back (I stood with my back to the wall.) as they will get you if they get behind you - this is where numbers can count.
5. Don't let anyone get close and grapple with you as they can all pile onto you while you are tied up. Again, this is where numbers count.

This sort of experience also makes me prefer to train in boxing as you can usually use your hands even when standing on a rocking bus or train floor.

My two cents worth.

[Scarlet Mist]

Scarlet, while in a perfect world, he could have took out his .44 (I prefer 9mm) and blew them away, or bludgeoned them to death with a pipe, it's not really feasible in the UK. Perhaps Colombia, lol. The problem is, when it's a gang, and not just a one-off assault (where I would agree, go all-out in defense) the attackers are likely to have friends, friends with a lot less to lose than him, or family members who are equally worthless, who would possibly do serious damage to him/his family/his house in the future. FYI iron pipes are legal, hitting someone with one isn't. Gangs never play fair, it's in their scummy nature. And just imagine the trouble he'd get in by hitting a girl, that wouldn't go down too well with the gang would it.

In these situations, running is always the best solution. It really is unfortunate, but it's just the way it is.


No, my friend. In a perfect world, the 44 would not exist. Yes, I do know the nature of gangs, and yes running is in fact the most feasible solution when dealing with gangs, in this case it may not have worked. And if cats are gonna get it on with you, then there's nothing you can do about it. It's on. You may as well start swinging that pipe.

[Apotheosis]

If I could not run, I would do my best to avoid a fight, but if they were clearly after a fight and I could nto run nor avoid it, I would bring it to them..If I had one I would use a weapon, a pipe or something similar, if I had no weapon, I would attack the ringleader first, and likely go for "dirty" tactics such as groin shots and eye jabs, when your outnumbered you cant think about fighting "fair", you can only think about winning/surviving. Of course since I am a beginner I dont know what specific punches/kicks to use, besides doing my best to disable them.

[Jaaboy]

If your on the hill, first off, just ditch the bag and make sure it dosent look like you think its to important. Stay out of distance and whenever they lunge at you make sure that you can knock them off balance. Initimdation is also a very good strategy. If you act like you have nothing to lose then they might back off.

[redsandpalm]

If your on the hill, first off, just ditch the bag and make sure it dosent look like you think its to important. Stay out of distance and whenever they lunge at you make sure that you can knock them off balance. Initimdation is also a very good strategy. If you act like you have nothing to lose then they might back off.
*applaudes*

[gaz shaw]

i dont really know wat i would have done in tht situation, but its a good job ur house was there :woo: but if i were u i would have taken oyt wat looks like the leader, the one who was shadow boxing probably

[Kev63]

i once knocked out (well humiliated) 15 guys at my local dojo when i was 10, jees ill never forget that for some reason...

[Sgt_Major]

Would it have been possible to cross the street?

I think personally I'd have ditched the bag over a fence or wall that was at hand.....then run like hell....

If that doesnt work or not viable, ditch the bag, wait for confirmation that a ruckus is gonna happen....speak first kill after.....say something like "alright lads" see what their response is......making the first verbal contact makes them think your confident, therefore you dont fear them....which is what they are after in the first place. IF IT GOES SOUTH, then yes hit the shadow boxer......hes the leader....and hit him hard....so hard you end up on the other side of him, thus putting you above them....go from there where you will, Id try to force them one on one......keep them infront of you, you bust one up, push him at the others....in that case I wouldnt hit a girl....but i WOULD kick her in the groin...its as effective on a girl as it is on a lad, and also not major damage.

i know what its like toiling with the legalities of the UK......seems simpler to move to us and buy a .44....

[Punchy]

People keep saying run away as though it is a simple solution. It isn't necessarily a good idea!!! One problem is that you have to turn your back and so you lose track of where they are or what they are doing. This makes you vulnerable to an attack from behind. You also trigger the 'predator-prey' reflex and encourage them to chase and attack you in the belief that you are admitting they are superior and therefore easy prey. Running is not necessarily safe at all!! One many occasions defending yourself is actually safer, even though it may seem scarey.

[Rhineville]

no police in your town? or, rather, any cops who don't get their paycheck signed by a gang leader?

[Apotheosis]

Police often dont get to things like this until its to late....fights are often unplanned and just happen, so there is no way to stop them before they start unless the police get lucky and they are in the area.

[leo]

Would it have been possible to cross the street?

I think personally I'd have ditched the bag over a fence or wall that was at hand.....then run like hell....

If that doesnt work or not viable, ditch the bag, wait for confirmation that a ruckus is gonna happen....speak first kill after.....say something like "alright lads" see what their response is......making the first verbal contact makes them think your confident, therefore you dont fear them....which is what they are after in the first place. IF IT GOES SOUTH, then yes hit the shadow boxer......hes the leader....and hit him hard....so hard you end up on the other side of him, thus putting you above them....go from there where you will, Id try to force them one on one......keep them infront of you, you bust one up, push him at the others....in that case I wouldnt hit a girl....but i WOULD kick her in the groin...its as effective on a girl as it is on a lad, and also not major damage.

i know what its like toiling with the legalities of the UK......seems simpler to move to us and buy a .44....

oh yea thats a point, other side of teh streets is just teh woods and a field

[CobraMaximus]

There is a soimple way to take on multipul opponents. Kepe side stepping away from them and using strikes like side kicks that fend them off and wind them

[Scarlet Mist]

There is a soimple way to take on multipul opponents. Kepe side stepping away from them and using strikes like side kicks that fend them off and wind them :cry:

Yeah right. That won't work. I suggest pulling your reverse blade sword and say "if you want to taste the ground, feel free to attack me". After that, just go to town on their asses.

[HearWa]

ok im posting this due to something that nearly happeend earlier while walking home, the road up to my house is long and quite steep and i was carryign a heavy bag, comeing down the road were members of a local gang 3 boys and 2 girls, the boys looked well in the mood for a fight and one was even practicing his boxing while walkign down the road. Luckily nothing happened becasue i turned into my own house while they were just approaching my next door neighbours house, but it made me think, I am at several disadvantages if i fight now
1) i am below them on a fairly steep hill
2) i have to get a heavy bag off my shoulder (single strap)
3) im out numbered (and cant hit girls)

if you had gotten into a fight in this scenario, what would you have done?
My remedy? Several training sessions of HARDCORE KING OF THE MOUNTAIN!

I call it!

[taekwondobob]

depending on their experience in fighting, it could have been a rather simple fight.

lets face it...girls ARE physically weaker then men, chances are they are there just to watch the other guys fight, so thats already two down. (sorry girls who are reading this).

the other three...one tactic that i love to use while in a fight such as that, is you use one guy as a "meat shield" against the others. By this, i mean that, you go straight for one, try to bring him down, and in the process, get him in between you and the other guys, hence he is "shielding" you from them attacking you, and you only have to worry bout one guy. Once you've brought that guy down, continue with the other 2 like that.

In saying this, you have to be constantly aware of where exactly all of them are positioned. Because you say they are gang members, gives me the imprwession that they are likely to carry knives. If you see a knife....then attack to kill. if they are going to carry a knife to use to try and kill you, then they must be then prepared to be killed.

i know, it sounds rather stupid, but this is how i see things.If they are outnumbering you, and are going to try to kil you, then you have three choices, 1.get killed. 2.severely injure them to immobolize them, or 3. kill them. I would be more likely then anything to drop the bag and run, purely because my life is more important then work :), that above is only in a case whereby you CANNOT escape

[azn tiger]

Of course the best thing to do is to try to avoid it but there are times where this is not possible. I say do ANYTHING you can do to survive, who cares about fighting fair, are they fighting fair? NO! I say if you have something or there is something hard right there you can pick up, a brick, stick, rock and hit the leader as hard as possible, if you drop him like that i say that 9 out of 10 it will scare the pants off of the others and they will probably run. My dad was telling me about one time these two guys jumped him and when he got knocked down he picked up a brick and hit the guy in the head so hard that it knocked him out. The other guy was so scared he took off running. If you can avoid doing this in front of your house it is even better. You don't want them to shoot it up or come back for revenge. but know matter what if you have to fight in this situation hit them where it hurts,hit them hard, hit them fast and hit them first, don't wait for them to make the move, if you can tell they aren't going to back down you have to make the first move. remember, it is you or it is them, and if it is self defense, especially against gang members you will probably get off pretty easilly.

[redsandpalm]

I would say, if it's just a bunch of idiots hangin' around with nothing better to do then going in hard and fast would probably catch them off gaurd. Look at this link, this guy can't even fight but he goes in quick, doesn't spend long with anyone in particular. The other guys probably could have beat him if they thought of it but they weren't expecting him to bring it to them.

P.S. Ignore the music, there's no music in real life.

http://www.media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=jockbeat.wmv

[Sgt_Major]

I would say, if it's just a bunch of idiots hangin' around with nothing better to do then going in hard and fast would probably catch them off gaurd. Look at this link, this guy can't even fight but he goes in quick, doesn't spend long with anyone in particular. The other guys probably could have beat him if they thought of it but they weren't expecting him to bring it to them.

P.S. Ignore the music, there's no music in real life.

http://www.media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=jockbeat.wmv

The stupidity of that video has been discussed here:

http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23670

think its well established that fight was terrible on many levels

[redsandpalm]

Yeah I've read the thread, some comments by serious trained fighters, some by internet warriors/armchair strategists. This guy was neither, he obviously had little/no fight training and wasn't good at it.. the point of my post was that the four guys trying to intimidate him didn't know how to react when he turned the tables and stood up to them. In fact I was highlighting how he wasn't a good fighter and still made those other guys look stupid with nothing but a fighting attitude. I'm not saying the three guys & two girls being discussed on this thread would neccessarily be that tame, but it shows how people feel comfortable in a group because they don't think one guy will even try to take them on. When he does he takes them right out of their comfort zone.

[Sgt_Major]

Yeah I've read the thread, some comments by serious trained fighters, some by internet warriors/armchair strategists. This guy was neither, he obviously had little/no fight training and wasn't good at it.. the point of my post was that the four guys trying to intimidate him didn't know how to react when he turned the tables and stood up to them. In fact I was highlighting how he wasn't a good fighter and still made those other guys look stupid with nothing but a fighting attitude. I'm not saying the three guys & two girls being discussed on this thread would neccessarily be that tame, but it shows how people feel comfortable in a group because they don't think one guy will even try to take them on. When he does he takes them right out of their comfort zone.


I can accept the point of your post, not denying his presence took them by surprise, but I dont see how the lads were trying to intimidate him....it looked like anargument that he tried to turn into "im going to intimidate them!" not once did they advance on him, touch him, square up, or anything that remotely looked intimidating....he was the bullying one there, he tried to dominate them from the very start....the lads looked scared of him (guy in white shirt) and Like i said there, his reaction was totally uncalled for

[redsandpalm]

I can accept the point of your post, not denying his presence took them by surprise, but I dont see how the lads were trying to intimidate him....it looked like anargument that he tried to turn into "im going to intimidate them!" not once did they advance on him, touch him, square up, or anything that remotely looked intimidating....he was the bullying one there, he tried to dominate them from the very start....the lads looked scared of him (guy in white shirt) and Like i said there, his reaction was totally uncalled forI agree his reaction was over the top and the guys never looked up for a fight, but calling someone a skater fag is bullying and it's intended to intimidate. I would still hold it up as an example of how a group strength mentality (and they obviously had it, otherwise they wouldn't have shouted insults at him) can be turned on its head. Anyway, we should really go back to http://www.martialartsplanet.com/fo...ead.php?t=23670
to talk about this video any more.