hapkido = taekwondo + aikido ???

[akira2000]

Hello everybody :D

Is someone that is trainig in tkd AND aikido considerd as hapkidoist ?
(By the way, I was very surprised to hear that jackie chan's main style is hapkido :D )

[oni_sensei]

No. That's the same as calling a boxer a Judoka.

[akira2000]

No. That's the same as calling a boxer a Judoka.

very funny :D

[seikido]

I train in Seikido, which is tae kwon do and aikido combined.

As I understand it, Hapkido is pretty similar, but incorporates wrist locks and take downs from other styles, which are similar to aikido, but which have developed differently in Korea.

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

Hapkido has no TaeKwonDo in it but the converse is true. When Choi Hong Hi moved to Canada, he met a student of Choi Yong Sul (founder of Hapkido) named Chung Kee Tae and asked him to provide the "self defense" component of his new book on TaeKwonDo, this is the orange cover book.

Hapkido is drawn from a single source, the training in Daito Ryu that Choi Yong Sul had for over 30 years with Takeda Sokaku. He learned no "Korean Styles", just Daito Ryu, and then taught what he learned in Korea starting on February 22, 1948.

A hapkidoin is someone that trains in this tradition, or subsequent traditions like those of Ji, Han Jae, a third dan student of Choi, Yong Sul.

Aikido is a spiritual art, Hapkido is still very much a fighting art. (No disrespect to Aikido here, but its spiritual teachings are well documented).

Hapkido is far beyond a few wrist locks and take downs. In addititon, the wrist locks and takedowns are not really similar to aikido, which requires that the opponent be somewhat compliant (hence the battery of "hidden strikes" not taught until black belt), hapkido is done against fully resistive opponents and the ki element is stressed from day one.

Jackie Chan's primary training is in Beijing Opera fighting, his hapkido experience is limited to a few scenes from a single movie - it is in no way his primary style.

[seikido]

Thanks for the clarification on the hapkido side, but I do disagree that Aikido requires "somewhat compliant" opponents--it depends on the school, but we practice aikido, once we've learned the technique, with full resistance, and the techniques work just fine. I know other schools which use full resistance also.

The trouble with using full resistance is the potential damage to the Uke, due to the effectiveness of the techniques when strength is applied. I've seen a couple of broken wrists due to the use of resistance in class. how does your class deal with this if you're using full resistance? Tapping works fine usually, but sometimes the defender can just apply too much pressure without even realizing it.

interesting article comparing tkd and hkd: http://www.scottshaw.com/integrating/

[iron_ox]

Hello all,

The way I have always taught and been taught, the first things that you learn is proper applied force. So, from early on, students know how much force to apply, but much more importantly is the fact that in Hapkido, even with full force being applied by by the opponent, no real force is required to excecute technique - therefore, unless a technique is applied incorrectly, it will work with no effort.

Hope that helps.

[kabba kick]

jackie chan main style is hapkido? really?

[oni_sensei]

No. As said before, he trained for a long, long time in Peking Opera, his involvement with Hapkido was only very minor.

[blessed_samurai]

Seikido...sometimes injuries happen and the student should be prepared for this. Now, of course, there is never any intent for anything to get broken, but on occasion it does happen.

[akira2000]

No. As said before, he trained for a long, long time in Peking Opera, his involvement with Hapkido was only very minor.

JACKIE CHAN'S MAIN STYLE IS HAPKIDO, this is jackie's home page :

http://www.web-vue.com/hapkido.htm

[BackFistMonkey]

JACKIE CHAN'S MAIN STYLE IS HAPKIDO, this is jackie's home page :

http://www.web-vue.com/hapkido.htm
this isnt Jackie Chan's home page ....


Hapkido For The Stars
The Training of Jackie Chan and Other Hong Kong Film Stars by Jane Hallander
so its ONE OF JACKIES FAN SITE !!!!!!! that was
This page last updated : 8/16/01
and I am sorry I have a hard time umm ... taking this info seriously

"When Jackie first came to my school, his kicks were not very good," Kim recalls. "Most of his stunts involved rolling and gymnastic techniques from Chinese opera. However, with his flexibility and tumbling experience, Jackie quickly learned Hapkido."

Chan eventually earned a black belt in Hapkido, learning all facets of the art and specialing in self defense kicking techniques. He was especially partial to aerial maneuvers such as flying side and back kicks, double front kicks, and flying scissors kicks.

Chan's favourite Hapkido technique is probably the kick known as "eagle jumps and catches its prey." This technique is used against an oncoming opponent, and the hapkido stylist first jumps on the adversary's thigh, using it more or less as a step ladder. From there, the Hapkido practitioner delivers either a kick to the head or an axe kick takedown form atop the opponent's back.

Chan has even taught Hapkido to the 20 stunt men who work for him. Chan demands realism in his movie fight scenes, and each of his stunt men are skilled in kicking, joint locking, and throwing.

Today, Chan is the top box office attraction in Asia, thanks in large part to his Hapkido training under Kim. "Even after he became famous, Jackie was one of the hardest-working people I've met," Kim states. "He took his Hapkido seriously, practicing for hours at a time."

Hung, known for his large size and innocent appearance, is a talented director as well. He went to South Korea in 1973 to study directly under Hapkido master Ji Han Jae when Hong Kong audiences began calling for higher, flashier kicking techniques. When Hung returned to Hong Kong, he continued to study under Kim.

"Samo Hung is incredibly flexible for such a big man," Kim relates. "Like Jackie Chan, Hung's Chinese opera training gave him flexibility. He had no trouble at all with any Hapkido kicks or throwing techniques."

Hung's favourite kick, repeated many times throughout his films, is a double front kick, a difficult jumping technique that employs both legs in simultaneous front kicks. In addition to his new kicking expertise, Hung has become skilled at Hapkido's throws and takedowns.

Angela Mao, who played Bruce Lee's sister in Enter the Dragon is another of Kim's black belts. With tremendous acrobatic skill due to her background in Chinese opera, Mao found spinning kicks to her liking, and she trained with Kim for more than two years.

Hong Kong film start Carter Wong, who you may remember as the villain in Big Trouble in Little China, also spent several years in Kim's school. Unlike the others, Wong had studied Karate, and although he could deliver side, front, and roundhouse kicks effectively, he preferred hand techniques. According to Kim, one advantage of Hapkido in terms of moviemaking is the fact that the style also includes a variety of hand maneuvers that come across well on film. ,

not only does it say that Oprera didnt teach them anything but tumbling .. it ALSO makes hapkido sound like a airborn ballet of fluff and showmanship that is nothing but dangerous ( to the user ) high kicks , jumps,jump kicks , spinning kicks in other words, movements known to be slow , excessive, and highly telegraphic before there exacution .... Makes me think something odd is going in here ... maybe a P.R. peice/advertisement of some sort .. ? or maybe a fan site that is three years out of date with false , missing ,or incomplete information on Jackie that implies that Jackies favorite art is Hapkido to drum up some interest in one specific school .....

* shrugs *

Hapkido can be pretty and I am sure those people trained with "Kim" but I have seen VERY little hakido in Jackies films , movies , and cartoons much less 20 stuntman firghting realisticly as mentioned above ..and on the same subject thats cool , Jackie seems to be certified to teach hapkido ...

and now back on topic :TKD with Aikido IS NOT hapkido ! as Seikido says


I train in Seikido, which is tae kwon do and aikido combined.

As I understand it, Hapkido is pretty similar....

so there you go .. tkd and aikido IS NOT and will never be Hapkido and to see how it differs read Iron Ox's post . I dont feel like ranting anymore and dont have enough knowledge about aikido to make any firm statements beyond what Iron Ox stated ........



and besides other forums there is no other place I can find online that says he did anything but the Chinese Opera .. but then again who knows ....

apperantly he has a * gasp * biography that he ( Jackie ) says is pretty close to accurate . But that means someone has to go get the book then read it .

Peace :love:. and hippy stuff

Back Fist Monkey

[Thomas]

Is someone that is trainig in tkd AND aikido considerd as hapkidoist ?


No. They are a TKD and Aikido student.

Hapkido is a separate art (and comes in several forms depending on the lineage). It shares a background with Aikido through the Daito-ryu Aiki-jujitsu background but really both arts have evolved very differently.

You may see a big influence of TKD kicking on Hapkido in many schools, especially those that teach both arts. In fact, I would say that TKD schools with elements of Hapkido in them are very common, especially in the self defence areas. Hapkido and TKD are very different arts though, both in philosophy and technique.

By the way, why do you ask? Are you planning to study TKD and Aikido? They would seem to be two arts that would work well together.

[shadow warrior]

Most of the info in that article about Jakie Chan and others exposure to Hapkido is not very accurate.

Much of Jackie Chan's exposure to Hapkido came about when he was making two movies with Hapkido Master Hwang In Shik, (Young Master and Dragon Lord). Angela Mao's occured when she was making a movie with the same Hapkido Master, originally titled Hapkido but later changed to Lady Kung Fu.

In Jackie Chan's biography he rates the fight scene at the end of Young Master in his top ten fights from all of his movies. That scene took three months to film.

Even Bruce Lee picked up some Hapkido kicking ideas when he was making Return of the Dragon with the same Hapkido Master.

A big difference between Aikido and Hapkido is the size of the circles used in techniques. TKD has no place in Hapkido. Master Chung Kee Tae was asked to contribute some self defence techniques to the ITF book written by General Choi in the late seventies. He confirms this in an interview done in the late 90's..

Lineages of Hapkido today are being exploited by some people in order to gain some credibility.

Anyone who has been around Hapkido for more than twenty years are familiar with the small number of second generation Masters who were in Korea in the late 50's thru the mid 60's.

Many of the newer generation Hapkido Instructors coming out of Korea are TKD first HKD second. Further watering down of Hapkido is occuring because of people's insistance on including techniques, theories and philosophies which have no place in Hapkido as it was practiced in its early days.

The two main influences on Hapkido were Choi Young Sul and Jae Han Ji. Neither of these men taught Aikido or TKD.

I trained primarily under two second generation Hapkido Masters for nearly twenty years (Chung Kee Tae and Hwang In Shik). I have also had exposure to a half dozen more Masters of that generation. Non of these Masters taught Aikido. Master Chung did teach Yudo to seniors as a compliment to Hapkido. He could also kick in two ways with TKD or HKD theories.

FWIW

[akira2000]

Everybody, It was educating info you gave me. THANX :D

[fester]

I have also had exposure to a half dozen more Masters of that generation. Non of these Masters taught Aikido.
How about grand master myong Jea Nam?
The masters in yong in sait to me that he took examination of ji han jea
I realize that you read differently on the net:)
But to stay on toppic You never heard about IHF?
or you just don't like it?:))
regarts
fester

[Thomas]

fester: I trained in Myong Jae-nam's IHF in Korea and earned my 2nd dan in the IHF. I also trained in Hankido and enjoyed that as well. In my opinion, GM Myong's Hapkido style seems a bit softer than others.... possibly due to his connections and sharing with Aikidokas.

[ushankido]

GM Myung Jae Nam started his martial arts training in 1948, and his hapkido training with GM Ji Han Jae at the Joong Bu Si Jang location in 1958 or 1959, which was the third location GM Ji Han Jae had in Seoul. Joining GM Myung Jae Nam at that time was also Grandmaster Han Bong Soo and GM Choi Sea Oh.

In 1972, GM Myung was the 8th person to receive an 8th Dan from GM Ji and was one of the original members of the Korean Hapkido Association.

Further more, GM Myung gave one of GM Ji's Dan certificates to GM Ji when he moved to the U.S. in the 80's. I saw a copy of this certificate once at the International H·K·D Federation - Jaenam Musul Won headquarters in Yong-In.

[shinbushi]

That is the Korean version of the arts history. Most Aiki people say it is bunk. The reasons for this are well documented. Takeda sensei had maticulous records of *every* student that he ever instructed. Even during seminars that he gave, each and every person who attended had to write their name in his ledgers. There were a handful of people from Korea, none of them were the founders of Hapkido.

The evidence stands pretty clear. The only people that are claiming Hapkido to be decendant of Daito ryu are Hapkido people. There is proof documented on paper that Choi Youn Sul was never a Daito ryu student. There is also nothing beyond his words claiming that he was.

[mike-IHF]

Shinbushi,

Why are you bringing this topic up. It has been argued about over and over. If you look at traditional hapkido, or Hapkiyusul you can plainly see that it is Daito Ryu. If not then you are blind. Myself being a student of Hapkiyusul know from experience the techniques are exactly the same with some suttle differences. Ther is also a well known article from Jin Mok who did recieve Dan rankings from Takeda while he was at a camp in Japan for Koreans during the occupation. He even stated that he remembered Choi Young-Sul being there, and that they did not get along. Jin Mok's certificates from Takeda have been verified by the Daito Ryu in Japan.

[Slindsay]

I've trainned in Aikido and Tae kwon do at the same time, didnt work out to good, the footwork of Aikido doesnt really allow you to kick or strike to good and the principles conflict at a fairly basic level.

[fester]

Hey mister Alnasser just want to tell you your website is very nice:)
Its a pitty I never met you in Korea
C Y'all