Groin Shots.......

[TwIsT]

Ok,This has been bugging me for a while but i'm finally letting it out. Groin Shots Are not that effective! If you think aboot it there are so many easier ways of protecting yourself than legging a dangler. Here are some of the reasons why i think that groin shots arent effective...

1:If you take the time to realise,it(No offence) is generally only a very small area to target,you could miss or get trapped easy.

2:Most guys instinctively protect that area(Rightfully so),so once again Missing or trappage may occur.

3:Alot of the time groin shots will just make a guy angry,and in my case groin shots have led to me chasing a guy down and pummeling him then retreating to be alone with my precious'.

4:It's a pain that can be crippling but ignored rather quickly,In football guy get nadded all the time and just shake it off and keep playing.

5:If they are bigger than you,and you do manage to thwack their love sack,it's likely they will tumble forward,onto youwhere after recovery they will make you sore.

There's Probably more i forgot to write but i think you can see where i'm getting at.

Opinions......

[Kagebushi]

1:If you take the time to realise,it(No offence) is generally only a very small area to target,you could miss or get trapped easy.

2:Most guys instinctively protect that area(Rightfully so),so once again Missing or trappage may occur.
i hear these a lot, and some people may be faster then the ones i spar with, but groin kicks are pretty easy to land for me. theres not much distance between the groin and the foot, and although it is a small target, it isnt by any means hard to hit(at least compared to any other target)

5:If they are bigger than you,and you do manage to thwack their love sack,it's likely they will tumble forward,onto youwhere after recovery they will make you sore.
avoiding an accidentally falling person is far easier than avoiding a kick or punch, which should be fairly basic. a deliberate tackle/takedown is different, however. then again, that's something you have to worry about anyway.

a trapped foot is pretty bad, but they can happen just as easily from any other kick.


as for the other two, that's why you keep hitting. you cant assume it will put someone down. its just another tool to be used, not some magic fight ender. then again, noone i've really hit there has decided to continue, but that doesnt mean it wil ALWAYS work.

[Intan86]

This is BAD NEWS for girls/women!!! Groin shots aren't effective?!! :eek: :bang:

[MarioBro]

Ok,This has been bugging me for a while but i'm finally letting it out. Groin Shots Are not that effective! If you think aboot it there are so many easier ways of protecting yourself than legging a dangler. Here are some of the reasons why i think that groin shots arent effective...

1:If you take the time to realise,it(No offence) is generally only a very small area to target,you could miss or get trapped easy.

2:Most guys instinctively protect that area(Rightfully so),so once again Missing or trappage may occur.

3:Alot of the time groin shots will just make a guy angry,and in my case groin shots have led to me chasing a guy down and pummeling him then retreating to be alone with my precious'.

4:It's a pain that can be crippling but ignored rather quickly,In football guy get nadded all the time and just shake it off and keep playing.

5:If they are bigger than you,and you do manage to thwack their love sack,it's likely they will tumble forward,onto youwhere after recovery they will make you sore.

There's Probably more i forgot to write but i think you can see where i'm getting at.

Opinions......
Well, I have to totally disagree on this one. If a guy is busy defending that area, then he is in a defensive posture, not offensive (or you are sparring and he is thinking about it). An attacker is usually to busy thinking about the attack and does not consider that area as needing defending (from what I have seen).

If a groin shot only makes the opponent angry, then you did not connect properly (likely from the fear of making them angry?).

Of course, if there is not a good opening you do not take it, as with any move, but if that opening comes to nail them in the privates...take it fast and take it hard, they will drop (males of course).

To back up my assessment, check out this site as it is loaded with good info from very qualified ppl:

http://www.realfighting.com/0102/billkipp.htm

Check about half-way down on the above page where he discusses groin attacks.

[spooky]

I'm a female and in the past kicked men in the groin/testicals.And it is sure not not as effective as the movies make it out to be! :confused: None of them hit the ground in pain and they were good hard strikes.I knew they had some pain but they just brushed it of like nothing!Only one guy bent a little. But one thing for sure they were all very very miffed :woo:One guy tried to snap kick me back into my groin :eek: but luckly he missed!I have known of men would like to return the favor no matter who it is, male or female.There is no words to describe the pain I feel when I'm kicked in my genitals/vulva!It just just leaves me crumpled up on the ground in absolute agony! :eek:Even a light groin strike can be painfull and debilitating!

[MarioBro]

I'm a female and in the past kicked men in the groin/testicals.And it is sure not not as effective as the movies make it out to be! :confused: None of them hit the ground in pain and they were good hard strikes.I knew they had some pain but they just brushed it of like nothing!
If they did not crumple, then the kick was either not accurate, or not hard enough or they wore cups.

[Scarlet Mist]

Today, in sparring, my opponent went airborne for a lunging punch, to surprise me I suppose. It achieved it's desired effect, I threw out a sidekick in defence, it caught him right in the nuts. And down he went.
I've been kicked pretty hard while wearing a cup, and while it is painful, it doesn't stop me. Of course how much it would have hurt had I not been wearing a cup is a matter of conjecture.

[Scarlet Mist]

If they did not crumple, then the kick was either not accurate, or not hard enough or they wore cups.

This statement, appears to be pure horse puckey. I think different people react to being hit differently.

[tommy]

I do full contact Kyokushin. Obviously we wear cups, and occasionaly get a groin kcik. When it happens the person will generally go down for a couple of minutes and one of us has to hit him around the kidney area lightly.

Without a cup, with a correct strike it will be debilitating. At the least give you enough time to get out of the situation.

[CobraMaximus]

The harder someone is booted in the nads the less they feel it to be honest.

[Lance Havock]

I would much rather practice high percentage moves than rely of scrub type moves that would only tick a person off instead of laying them down completely.

[XiaoXing]

Adrenaline can make a hit to the groin like a small rock hitting your head.Normally when your fighting a guy whos temperature is a 100000 degree's he only concitrates on trying to hit you.After the fight he will feel the effects.

[alex_000]

wow a hole thread about groin shots not being effective.



1:If you take the time to realise,it(No offence) is generally only a very small area to target,you could miss or get trapped easy.

2:Most guys instinctively protect that area(Rightfully so),so once again Missing or trappage may occur.


Like if you try to hit someone in the groin and you miss game over , but if you miss the fase or any other spot no problem...


3:Alot of the time groin shots will just make a guy angry,and in my case groin shots have led to me chasing a guy down and pummeling him then retreating to be alone with my precious'.


And trying to destroy theif face won't make em angry?


4:It's a pain that can be crippling but ignored rather quickly,In football guy get nadded all the time and just shake it off and keep playing.


The jab in the nose may be like that too. And a cross/hook in the chin , and a low kick, should we not use those stuff too?


5:If they are bigger than you,and you do manage to thwack their love sack,it's likely they will tumble forward,onto youwhere after recovery they will make you sore.


Thats true. I wouldn't hit a guy in the balls if he didn't try to hit me first (or it was a real self defence cituation). It's a man thing, but that doesn't make the hit ineffective does it?


Opinions......

Not what you wanted to hear i guess but there you go. You seem to thing that a groin shot is to be used by it's own. It isn't. You can hit a guy in the balls and then knee him in the head as he bends , see what I mean?

[Tittan]

Well, I've seen groin shots connect and I've seen the pain in the eyes of the guy (or girl) on the recieving end. It still isn't anything I'd do if I had other options though.
If I didn't know what was happening - let's say I'm at work (youth prison) and suddenly I'm getting strangled from behind, I saw this happen to another guard - I would use fight-stoppers. A decent blow to the groin might stop, or I could grab the nads and pull. (Yeah, I've been to a Roy Harris seminar - he taught this technique and I adopted it.) This is only if I'm being attacked from behind though, in a face to face situation I'd rather use some low-kicks to the ancles/knees then trying to hit the nads...

[Lance Havock]

that is the thing, kicking people in the nuts is very low percentage. Not saying that it would not work, but the chances wayyyyy lower than any other non-scrub move.

[spooky]

If they did not crumple, then the kick was either not accurate, or not hard enough or they wore cups.
Sorry your wrong MarioBro,...... The men were NOT wearing cups and I DID kick them very hard and accuratlly!I know this for sure!One day in my teen years I was at the nude beach and this creepy nude man came up and grabed my neck from the front! :eek: So I struck him with a hard square kick into his testicals,And he did not drop or even flinch! :confused: So I followed up with a hard punchs to his throat and nose and this did make him stop And thats when I made a run for it!! :cry:I just had to tell you!

[Judderman]

Why does everyone assume a "groin shot" automatically means the genitals? The groin is a larger area than that y'know.

[Kagebushi]

well, the genitals and the nerves behind them are really the only targets there (that arent well covered in muscle). the joint at the hip can be used to take someone down, but it isnt an extremely painful place to be hit.(it is painful, to be sure, but not quite as much as the genitals) and the nerves are really a low percentage place, unless you get lucky enough to open it up.

i keep hearing that the genitals are a "low percentage target". they are easier to hit than the face, in my experience, and do you not attempt face shots? or rib shots? those are a lot harder than groin hits to land.
a groin kick wth the ball of the foot is pretty simple.
it's a quick, powerful strike that is hard to see, and progressively harder as you get closer to your opponent.
a punch would be near impossible and extremely unsafe under normal conditions, but #1 conditions constantly change, and there will be a use for it sometime, and #2 the fact that you cant punch the groin safely does not make it a useless target.

[TwIsT]

They Do hurt like hell,dont get me wrong,and all opinions are good opinions in my opinion :) What I'm saying tho,is that there are so many better places to aim,a good thigh kick can be alot easier and takem down alot faster then a Jewel robber kick.

And Every thing has merit,i have heard of a man whose every technique,be it a Punch Combo,push takedown whatever,he is holding nthe detached testes at the end of it,maybe not detached but im sure you get the picture.

Also,as i think it has been said before in this thread,adrenaline can make those shots as painful as a tiny rock bouncing off your head. I havent discounted them,i just think that there is alot of better things to do.

[MarioBro]

If a shot to the thigh hurts you worse then the same shot to the groin...I am really not sure what to say without being rude. I guess you should change your name to Jaws (remember James Bond gave him a good kick there, and it clanged like metal...no pain).

Well, I am not sure what you all are thinking, but a well connected shot to the groin will do more damage and give more escape time than most other places I can think of...even moreso when there is a substantial difference in size. I could take a shot almost anywhere from most of the women and children and alot of the men in my dojo, but I tell you..if they connect me in the groin, even partly solid when light sparring, I am incapacitated. I know I would be down with a full contact hit in that region.

[snake_plisskin]

Gee, had I only known...

...in tenth grade I told my friend I liked this girl. Well, I told him to tell her. He sauntered over to her and said...something. Whatever it was, it wasn't that I simply "liked" her. I think it had to do with me wanting to perform a certain sex act that would result in her brain leaving her cranium, but he's never quite fessed up and told me his exact words...

Barb walked casually up to me and "pinged" me in the groin--the tip of her cheerleader shoe went "BING!" against my nuts. Just a little "flick." Game over. I was down on the high school floor, my big ugly '80's glasses almost knocked off my head from the "tiny" hit.

She had a really good wind-up, and I just stood there, thinking she was going to maybe bat her eyes at me, or ask me if I had a date to the Romance by the Sea Dance. Silly boy, kicks are for groins.

Okay, so THAT "little kick" landed square on my "sack" and dropped me in about .6 seconds.

Years later, I found myself with my friends in a big, um, college melee at a bar. Fists, feet, beer cups, blonds, everything went flying, everyone was swingin'...

Someone went "WHUMP!" and whacked me full-force in the groin with a foot--or something, at least. I actually left the ground for a second. I think it was a female rugby player whose butt I pinched [I'm not entirely sure it was female, but it was a rugby player, at least :-)], but my beer goggles were kind of fogged up that night.

Not a thing happened.

Nothing. At least at first.

No...wait...wait...wait for it....

...Uuuuuuuuugh! The pain spread, like rivers of white-hot lava slowly ploughing through my arteries, from my groin, and then like burning tendrils of agony all through my body. But it was NOT "instant", and it was NOT "total" nor "fully debilitating". I was too drunk to really TELL how much pain I was in.

My instant reaction was, after considerable drunken self-deliberation, like, "Who the hell just kicked me in...the...balls???"

But, I did NOT drop to the ground--and I'm only 160 soaking wet, on a good day, when my spirits are heavy (haha)--I did NOT fall over like in the movies, and I did NOT find my balls popping out of my mouth ala "Naked Gun". Oh, the, um, "Dick Shield", as it's often called, DID help out matters a little, but not a lot.

However, probably as much to do with the total mayhem surrounding us, and just wanting to not get a beer bottle rammed into my eyeball, I didn't have time to become an enraged madman, either. More like an indignant sod is like it. I stumbled from the bar with the rest of the crowd, kicked out by the swarm of bouncers, and never looked back. But I never hit the ground, and I wasn't turned into a semi-paralyzed, blathering, drooling moron by the groin hit.

Try kicking the femoral artery instead. Hard. Or just punch the side of the neck and collapse the jugular. Hard.

And stop trying to kick drunken, angry, adrenaline-dumping meth freaks, steroid-hazed, bloody-eyed 'Roid Boys, and vodka chugging, beer-funneling, bad karaoke'ing, enraged Don Juan wannabes in the groin.

[BendzR]

Well this is my first post.. so Hi! :D (18yr old guy, studying CLF Kung Fu in Perth, Australia)

Anyways, as far as the 'groin shots' go..

When you deliver a very hard blow to a male's gems it tends to have a delayed reaction. If they are high on adrenaline, when the nerves react, you tend to shrug it off.

My Sifu was telling us about how the most effective way to attack someone in the nuts as a result of what I said above, is to actually whip-like FLICK (like with the back of ur hand/nails) them in the nuts. Sounds obsurd but apparently it hurts a lot more because it affects u instantly.

It sounds to me, based on other people's stories that this is true.. "Small" sudden force seems to work better then just a big powerhouse kick.

My dad who did Shotokan Karate for 17 years in South Africa (was in the National JKA team back in his days) went to Japan for some big tournament. In the final rounds a Japanese 8th Dan (by the name of Tanaka Something I think it were) kicked his opponent so fast and sudden between the legs, he broke the cup into 3 pieces and the guy was sent to hospital - obviously incapible of contining the match :D

So it does work.. if you know how ?

[snailfist]

I think it depends greatly on the power and direction of the strike. The RMP ("redcaps") are taught when using their batons that the genitals is a "red" area, ie. an area likely to cause permanent injury or death when struck with sufficient force, as the way you hit it with their batons (bringing it up sharply between the legs) can result in pushing the testicles inside the body and damaging the internal organs above it. :eek:

[Singto Laaw]

This is BAD NEWS for girls/women!!! Groin shots aren't effective?!! :eek: :bang:I havent read the full thread, but I will in two secs..

They are not effective in stopping your opponent, they are a distraction only.
Always go for the throat first, then....

The groin shot is ineffective as a stopping techniques simply because of time delay, and the fact that yes some people will just shake it off or not feel the pain.

A groin shot is good for one thing, a distraction to do something else, like leg it, or to follow up with necessary force.

Effectiveness should be assessed by what you are trying to do next.

[Pericles]

Testicle debaters,

Read this.

Last Updated: Tuesday, 2 November, 2004, 12:16 GMT

E-mail this to a friend Printable version

Man loses testicle after attack

A man had to have a testicle removed after he was attacked in the street in north Worcestershire.
West Mercia Police said the victim was repeatedly kicked and punched by two men as he walked along Birmingham Road in Hagley on Sunday night.

The man, who is in his late 20s, was operated on the following day after he went to hospital in considerable pain.

The offenders were driven away from the scene in a car containing two women, who police are asking to come forward.


'No motive'

The attack happened in the bus lay-by opposite the Ferrari and Porsche garage at about 2230 GMT.

Det Con Pete Wheeler said: "At this stage there is no motive for the attack, which was vicious and has left a man with a serious injury that has now changed his life."

"I would like to speak to the two women in the car who probably didn't realise that the man was so badly injured.

"They may be frightened about contacting us but they can speak to us confidentially or they can contact the Crimestoppers number anonymously on 0800 555 111."


The way I see it, in terms of Krav Maga, is "Multiple strikes until you gain compliance"

Regards,

Pericles

[Judderman]

The way I see it, in terms of Krav Maga, is "Multiple strikes until you gain compliance"
In which case surely multimple strikes just about anywhere on the body would gain compliance.

I guess we're all looking for that magickal answer, the one hit fight, the fight stopper, the dream. Problem is there is probably just as much evidence towards this particular target as there is against. Then throw in adrenal activity, not to mention drink or drugs and you've got a problem.

A groin strike will do damage and inflict pain, but it won't be the fight ender that we're all led to believe it will be. Look at the groin as an inverted triangle, the pubic bone on the top with the two other sides running down from the points of the pelvis. Now where would you like to hit? It surely wouldn't be that nasty looking point at the base would it?

Nah, you go for the "flat" areas of the triangle. The top of the pubic bone, in the centre, the hips, struck from the front, and the grooves that run down each side of the groin, which contain a large number of muscles, nerves and blood vessels. These will cause great pain and damage, but won't necassarily stop your opponent IMO, but they should make them highly unstable and give them a nasty limp for a few weeks.

Should you need to strike the "points" of the triangle then the genitals react quite nicely to a flick as mentioned earlier, the hip shove can be used to destablise the opponent. Both these are set ups for further techniques and are very much dependant upon where you are in relation to your opponent.

[munkiejunkie]

if groin shots dont work, then i know something that will: grap nuts, lift to shouder hight, drop, and stomp. called the cristmas hold(handfull of nuts :D )

[Judderman]

if groin shots dont work, then i know something that will: grap nuts, lift to shouder hight, drop, and stomp. called the cristmas hold(handfull of nuts :D )
What do people like to wear these days?

Jeans.

Ever tried grabbing someones genitals when they're wearing jeans?

Not to mention the furious beating that would probably ensue because its close to impossible to rip genitals away through clothing.

[Singto Laaw]

No sense of humour!!! Jeans not a problem, go for the secret five finger fever speed ball bag ripper technique. :cry:

[TwIsT]

If a shot to the thigh hurts you worse then the same shot to the groin...I am really not sure what to say without being rude. I guess you should change your name to Jaws.

I just feel that the pain over all of a thigh kick is most devastating and incapacitating that a groin kick.

[CobraMaximus]

A groin kick I wud say is more of a shock move that surprises you and leaves you in a lot of pain but a thigh shot hurts and can slow you down in the rest of a fight.

[TwIsT]

A groin kick I wud say is more of a shock move that surprises you and leaves you in a lot of pain but a thigh shot hurts and can slow you down in the rest of a fight.

Good post.

Also,the femur is pretty easy to break so a good thigh kick can give you a BIG advantage.

[Judderman]

Good post.

Also,the femur is pretty easy to break so a good thigh kick can give you a BIG advantage.

Easy to break? From what ive seen its easier to break your foot or shin. Not a good sign when these are the things you'll be striking with.

As with all targets in order to get maximum effect from a thigh strike, you need to be acurate. This is harder than you think in a fight. From the kickboxing matches I've seen, it usually requires a number of strikes to the same area to show any great effect. Not the ideal in a self defence situation.

[snailfist]

Somewhere on the "Is Muay Thai effective in the street?" thread in the styles/MT forum, Yoda describes kicking someone on the inside of the thigh and watching them just collapse. He said it suprised him too but there we are...

[Judderman]

That would make sense. In theory I would imagine that inside the thigh can also collapse the knee, as the opponents leg and weight will be shifted. On a similar note I was told of an occassion where someone was punched on the top of the pubic bone, which had a similar effect.

Interesting point though.

[Matt_Bernius]

Somewhere on the "Is Muay Thai effective in the street?" thread in the styles/MT forum, Yoda describes kicking someone on the inside of the thigh and watching them just collapse. He said it suprised him too but there we are...Just note that the reason for the collapse is that just like on the outside of the thigh, there is a major nerve line running on the inside of the thigh. Having been hit on both lines I can say that a solid stike will render the leg temporaily useless. But like Jud said, the chances of breaking a femur are extremely low!

- Matt

[snailfist]

Is Muay Thai street applicable? (http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18615)
:)

[TwIsT]

From What i know and my experience,the femur is the easiest bone to break (I'm talking overall,with striking accuracy etc,fingers are way easier to break but i think you get my picture,if not please complain), But then again that is just me, people have different experiences and stuff so i'm not aboot to try and force it on people.

Inside thigh kicks are a specialty from my MA friends... Never punched a pubic bone though,and if i have it has been one of my rediculous 'doob' punches,another specialty of mine.

[MarioBro]

Received a groin shot today, the best one I have gotten yet and it still was not hard. I dropped like a stone, and this backs up my orginal theory that a well placed groin shot would do the trick. I received it from a white belt, so thankfully there was not alot of skill in it...if it was a skilled kick, I would have been in much worse shape.

[mididoctors]

the groin is IME the number one target

1. kicks are at longest range hip groin height IE kicks to the lower legs are shorter range as your leg is attached at the hip which conviently is the same height as the groin

2 IT IS effective... no doubt exceptions occur but in the main they pull and buckle then rotate away and for some reason anti clockwise is pretty common? you follow up any way just as any other effective strike.

3 requires good placement but is easier to hit than the head... it is embedded into the commitment of the targets feet unlike the head which can evade never mind being defended by the hands..


4 following on from 3 most importantly the groin is exposed in relation too your opponents footwork and stance and responding to how he is moving both reveals the target and protects you at the same time as defensive placement and attacking footwork meld into one simplicity... entire sytems are based on position of the axis and groin.

Boris
london

[MarioBro]

Thank you for all of that Boris...it all makes sense.

I cannot imagine trying to place a shot good enough to the femur or leg in order to incapacitate an opponent. A shot to the groin has both of their legs to guide the kick all the way to the sweet spot if you miss low...crunching the testicles against the body and turning the opponent into an easy target, or allowing you escape time if that is your choice.

[Matt_Bernius]

Couple things...

tWisT, can you point me in the direction of any proof of the femur being an easy bone to break? I just runs counter to the medical evidence I've seen.

As far as the groin shots effectiveness, I still question it's effectiveness in a fight. It sucks to get hit there in class, but thats an extremely different context than in the middle of a full adrenal dump situation. Personally I've eaten a groin shot during extreme pressure sparring and the only result was that I really saw red. I just fear it as a panacea.

In regards to the ease of getting it, it all depends on your opponent's posture. I do know that a solid bow to the inner or outer nerve line of the leg (using a Thai round with the latter) is in my opinion a far more dehabilitating blow. I was dropped in full contact sparring with one of those, and I've seen others experience the same thing.

However, even in that case adrenaline does amazing things. I wouldn't trust any sinlge technique to put a person down.

- Matt

[Slindsay]

I think some people are underplaying the groinshot here, I mean seriously now, if you had the choice of delivering one kick on an opponent, given it would strike with equal force wherever it hit, wouldnt you prefer to hit the groin?

Imagine if you will punching someone in the leg, ok it'll hurt, maybe give them a deadleg, but it almost certainly aint gonna stop them in their tracks, on the other hand if you imagine getting punched in the groin full force with the blow coming up between the legs...

Seriously, I understand what people are saying when they say that groin kicks are not the be all and end all of self defence but which one is going to stop you first, repeated blows to the groin or the head? Plus you have to take into account the fact that the attacker may well double up everytime you even feint at his groin which leads to the whole possibillity of kneeing his head.

Thats just an example btw, I'm not advocating punches to the groin or leg for self defence, maybe grabs to the groin but not punches.

[TwIsT]

The Femur is long and although it is strong it is still relatively easy to break with a strong kick. My friend was once attacked on a bridge by a man with a knife(Who Manged To Cut Him) And he turned and kicked the guy twice and managed to break the criminals leg with the first kick and follow thru with the second though not breaking it,the first kick snapped it. It all Has to do with body positioning but it is the easiest In my opinion,to break.

I Must Say,a groin shot has never put me down.... until after the conflict was over.

[Judderman]

Some very interesting info Boris. To follow on from that, does it matter how and where the groin area is struck?

[mididoctors]

Some very interesting info Boris. To follow on from that, does it matter how and where the groin area is struck?

hard to judge tight jeans hold the balls up so under and up kicks sometimes you just hit the area between your scrotum and your arse so "in" kicks tend to be the thing... if you miss the scroat you are pretty damm near the centre of mass anyway and will displace him.. if you have flexability in your ankle heel first covers the base to the top thou I have heard anecdotal evidence about ankle damage.. YMMV

if they are static or just stepping they wont fall on you ... you have just sent force straight into there centre of mass/balance..

if they are really steaming in and topple you over you need to step aside anyway he must literally be charging or head down in which case it isn't an option..

the best times to hit are when he is exposing his axis mid step or retreating out of punching distance into your kicking range..

there is alsorts of sneaky footwork to gain the axis... most of which resides unrecognised in katas/forms from a multitude of MAs practiced by the uninformed

Boris
london

[Judderman]

Boris, are you saying that the genitals is not necassarily the primary target, but the centre mass? Is this the base of the pubic bone sort of area?

By "in" kicks to you mean a stomping or thrusting type of kick?

[mididoctors]

Boris, are you saying that the genitals is not necassarily the primary target, but the centre mass? Is this the base of the pubic bone sort of area?

By "in" kicks to you mean a stomping or thrusting type of kick?

no you hope to kick his balls into his arse its just that the two coincide roughly if you miss... the bladder area is vunrable to a degree as the muscles don't tend to be as tight but then again you are unlikly to wind him

YMMV

in = thrusting... doesn't have to overly so.. if you get my drift

Boris
london

[Judderman]

Ok, I'm having difficulty visualising this. An upward kick (like kicking a football) or a forward kick (like kicking a door/mae-geri)?

The way I see it is a thrusting type kick (like a door/mae-geri) aimed at the base of the pubic bone or just below for the testicles. How far off am I?

Dare I ask what YMMV is???

[Reiki]

Forget groin kicks.

Go for the eyes, throat and neck. :yeleyes:

The groin is generally the place most men defend the most and often very instinctively, so the other better targets are more likely to be able to be struck with decent force so you can make your escape. Use palm heels to the face for more force then rake the eyes or cross the fingers and hit into the throat at the base of the neck for more penetration.

A good strike on the carotid arteries or on the back of the neck will drop someone nicely allowing you to bugger off out of danger.

Alternatively take out one or other of the knees. Ditto the elbows.

You can also box the ears - hit with flat hands [palm heel] as hard as you can on the sides of the head it is really painful and quite effective if nothing else presents itself!

I would always go for the eyes neck or face first! But my main objective would be to get away.

[MarioBro]

Forget groin kicks.

Go for the eyes, throat and neck. :yeleyes:

The groin is generally the place most men defend the most and often very instinctively, so the other better targets are more likely to be able to be struck with decent force so you can make your escape.
I have to disagree with this. I am almost positive that in a fight, most guys would tend to protect their head areas by nature. In a dojo when fighting a lower belt, for sure I would think about protecting the groin (moreso after getting a real good hit the other day), but in a street fight, chances are that the first reaction is to protect against strikes coming to the head.

Besides all of this, it should be fairly easy in most cases to see just how prepared an opponent is for a tussle. That would be the time to make a very quick decision.

[mididoctors]

Ok, I'm having difficulty visualising this. An upward kick (like kicking a football) or a forward kick (like kicking a door/mae-geri)?

The way I see it is a thrusting type kick (like a door/mae-geri) aimed at the base of the pubic bone or just below for the testicles. How far off am I?

Dare I ask what YMMV is???

mae geri... just *** kick him your going you hit him again anyway

it could meam... your millage may vary

Boris
London

[Pericles]

On impulse, I purchased a rattan walking stick for £5, a couple of weeks ago. It is slimmer than an Escrima baton, somewhat longer and with a wide curved handle. I have painful ankles, so this was a legitimate purchase. Of course, I do not use it much, as the aches vary from day to day. :)

At our KM studio, we sometimes train with umbrellas against knives, although they can be a little unwieldy. The walking stick,-------- very rapid. To those who are of an age to remember corporal punishment in British schools, the canes used then are just slightly slimmer than my rattan, which is also tougher and stiffer than the cane. :D

When I was at school, we had a lunatic old chemistry master who would rush up and down the lines of desks lashing out at all and sundry with his cane on our backs and shoulders and arms. Essential self defence requirements were to place exercise books under your blazer and hope the outline did not show through. :eek:

The speed with which this cane could be used was startling. Left and right, slash, slash, slash. On a sunny day you could see clouds of rising dust particles being beaten out of the blazers. And now I have got a stick. Knees, testicles, thighs, wrists, faces, necks, anywhere unprotected is grist to the mill.

Get one and practice Escrima and get really good. Hobble everywhere, complain about your poor old aching limbs to all your friends, tell your doctor as well. Then, when the day comes and you horse whip some impudent whippersnappers within inches of their misbegotten lives, you will have sufficient numbers of witnesses to attest to your good character and crippling ailments in court

Shots to the groin? Shots everywhere. Be merciless, kill your enemies and rejoice in the lamentations of their women. Conan the Barbarian last night, Channel 5. :woo:

Pericles

[shotokanwarrior]

This is BAD NEWS for girls/women!!!

Excuse me, we can do other things apart from kicking someone in the groin.

rake the eyes

You're entitled to your own opinion but I don't think much of raking the eyes, it's a messy way to take down someone.

[Lance Havock]

Excuse me, we can do other things apart from kicking someone in the groin.



You're entitled to your own opinion but I don't think much of raking the eyes, it's a messy way to take down someone.


I agree, but I think take downs are the best way to take someone down. :yeleyes:

[pachanga]

My two cents: our Krav instructor told us that two of his private students were recently involved in speparate road rage incidents, and they both did a standard KM defence against someone approaching with a cocked fist, which is to throw your forarms up in fromt of you, palms facing inwards and elbows together, while leaning the fop half of your body and throwing a front kick to their knee or groin. In both cases the students went for the groin and in both cases it dropped the opponents. I don;t have first hand confirmation of this, but I do trust my instructor.

On the other hand, there is clearly a lot of evidence that very hyped-up people can shrug it off until after the fight is over.

My conclusion is that while there is no one strike guaranteed fight stopper, it's still a decent percentage play is you can get one in accurately and are ready to follow it up. Doing it and expecting that to be that doesn't sound like a great idea. On the whole i would rather get a strong punch to the person's jaw if I could, but I like the KM technique as it doesn;t let them get too close.

On the "men instinctively defend their groin" points, that's true, but everyone also instinctively defends dangerous areas such as the eyes and throat.

[Pericles]

Hi Pachanga,

Good story. The KM technique pits the strongest, longest limb against a soft target to keep the assailant at a distance. You can also whack in 3-4 strikes in quick succession to the knees, thighs and lowered head. Our Israeli instructor advocates battering away until you get bored, but he is smiling when he says that.

It is about making sure you cannot be attacked again. There could be other attackers on the way to get you and a display of ruthless intent will send the message that you are not to trifled with.

Pericles

[novicio]

Karate & TKD use the instep to hit the groin, but the attacker will most probably not have his legs wide open for you to be able to plant that sort of shot properly. In a self defence situation I'd imagine a MT teep will be more effective. I say that cos from the target's point of view, the kick comes from infront (teep), not from underneath (front kick with instep). Is that right?


Fortunately, I've never had to use them. Even more fortunately, I've never been in the receiving end of one(was with a cup - no probs). I've read several books, MA and first aid, stating that groin shots can be lethal.

[CobraMaximus]

Just wear stiletos or steel toe caps, you cant go wrong with them

[Noontidal]

Kicking a determined guy in the groin probably won't stop him right away, but later, he's gonna be in a good bit of pain.

[shotokanwarrior]

I've read several books, MA and first aid, stating that groin shots can be lethal.

Wouldn't someone have died by now if they were? Maybe they have, and I just haven't heard of it?

[SparcZ]

...
My dad who did Shotokan Karate for 17 years in South Africa (was in the National JKA team back in his days) went to Japan for some big tournament. In the final rounds a Japanese 8th Dan (by the name of Tanaka Something I think it were) kicked his opponent so fast and sudden between the legs, he broke the cup into 3 pieces and the guy was sent to hospital - obviously incapible of contining the match :D

So it does work.. if you know how ?

That was Tanaka Masahiko and he was pretty good... :D

Rank: 8th Dan
Birthdate: Feb 24, 1941
Birthplace: Tokyo
University: Japan University
Started Karate: 2nd year of university
Motto: "Great-heartedness in the face of all"


Major Tournament Wins
· 3rd IAKF World Karate Championship (Bremen, 1980)
1st Place Group Kumite
· 2nd IAKF World Karate Championship (Tokyo, 1977)
1st Place Kumite
· 1st IAKF World Karate Championship (Los Angeles, 1975)
1st Place Kumite
· 18th JKA All Japan Karate Championship (1975)
1st Place Kumite
· 17th JKA All Japan Karate Championship (1974)
1st Place Kumite
· 16th JKA All Japan Karate Championship (1973)
3rd Place Kumite

[SparcZ]

...about a cane...
Get one and practice Escrima and get really good. Hobble everywhere, complain about your poor old aching limbs to all your friends, tell your doctor as well. Then, when the day comes and you horse whip some impudent whippersnappers within inches of their misbegotten lives, you will have sufficient numbers of witnesses to attest to your good character and crippling ailments in court

Shots to the groin? Shots everywhere. Be merciless, kill your enemies and rejoice in the lamentations of their women. Conan the Barbarian last night, Channel 5. :woo:

Pericles

Just hope the defence team doesn't get a hold of your post. ;) :D

[tel]

well the thing is weather they are effective or not,when sparring or real fighting the time and distance changes so qiucky that its either luck or u have to make time by destracting them by faking a head shot,but with this said it should be done with of a series of moves accident or otherwise

[shotokanwarrior]

Be merciless, kill your enemies and rejoice in the lamentations of their women.

What if they ARE women? :woo: :woo: :woo:

[gedhab]

What if they ARE women? :woo: :woo: :woo:

if they are don't fight them in the first place! :D :eek:

[Noontidal]

What if they ARE women?

Well, in that case you rejoice in the lamentations of their men, simple adjustment. ;)


And what if they are lesbian women? - Again that reverts to the lamentation of their women.

Or if they are Gay guys? Well, then you rejoice in the lamentation of their men.

If they're Bi(male or female version)? Rejoice in the lamentation of their men AND women, making this one quite possibly the best.

[Pericles]

We appear to be somewhat bogged down in the lamentation department. Let us return to the politically INCORRECT subject of nut cracking. In Krav Maga there is a deception technique used when running from the scene. Stop abruptly, pivot on ball of leading foot and drive heel and sole of other foot into oncoming groin. Double impact!! The condition of the ground must be stable and dry, otherwise it's splits time.

Sparcz, the matter of self protection in the UK is about to be changed in favour of victim. Soon the situation where a burglar could sue a householder for injuries sustained during a fight will cease to be. And about time too!! A walking stick is a walking stick. It is like architecture. In Krav Maga, it is suggested a wall is useful for head ramming. The ground is also an assistant on occasion. If people do not attack you, then they do not get injured. That is plain sense. It would appear that UK law will soon reflect that reality.

One should also demonstrate a spirit of generosity towards an attacker. Give four blows back for every blow they offer.

Pericles

[Karate_Man_1288]

I'm a female...There is no words to describe the pain I feel when I'm kicked in my genitals/vulva!It just just leaves me crumpled up on the ground in absolute agony! :eek:Even a light groin strike can be painfull and debilitating!


Well i've heard it is just as painful for women as it is for guys. It was discussed in the thread: "women shots" in the SD forum

[shotokanwarrior]

if they are don't fight them in the first place!


OOOHHHH!!!!!!! :woo: :woo: :woo:

[Karate_Man_1288]

OOOHHHH!!!!!!! :woo: :woo: :woo:

I generally try not to fight women too. Not because I think they cant defend themselves, it just seems wrong

[slig]

I once had to have a testicle massaged out of my lower abdomen, where it had become lodged after a very solid boot by a guy about 20Kg heavier than me. If you can land a strike properly, its devestating.

Excruciating doesn't quite describe that special brand of dizzying pain...

[Pastyti]

I once had to have a testicle massaged out of my lower abdomen, where it had become lodged after a very solid boot by a guy about 20Kg heavier than me. If you can land a strike properly, its devestating.

Excruciating doesn't quite describe that special brand of dizzying pain...
I assume from what you have said, that you didn't sue the thug who perpetrated this foul act against you, neither did you sue the school for breach of contract under their "duty of care" implicit terms or for negligence in ensuring this type of thing does not happen. Why didn't you use the protection of the law. You could be considerably more wealthy by now

[Yashka]

I once had to have a testicle massaged out of my lower abdomen, where it had become lodged after a very solid boot by a guy about 20Kg heavier than me. If you can land a strike properly, its devestating.

Urgh...Oh my GOD...that's just brutal. Who massaged if for you?

[samharber]

My experiences ahve taught me this. Being hit in my precious will drop me if I don't have an adrenaline dump. If the adrenaline is flowing its something I can shrug off for a while.

The fearsome d34dlyness of the groin strike in the dojo probably comes from the fact that when you're training, the adrenaline isn't flowing in the same way it would be in a real fight or competition.

[Matt_Bernius]

My experiences ahve taught me this. Being hit in my precious will drop me if I don't have an adrenaline dump. If the adrenaline is flowing its something I can shrug off for a while.

The fearsome d34dlyness of the groin strike in the dojo probably comes from the fact that when you're training, the adrenaline isn't flowing in the same way it would be in a real fight or competition.Great and accurate summary. Adrenaline isn't something that's regularly present in school situations.

Note, there will always be exceptions to rules. But if you want to stay safe you play the rule not the exception.

Groin shots hurt. But they are not guarenteed to put someone down. And if the posts on this thread are an example, we;ve had as many example of people shrugging them off as dropping. And when something gets even close to 50%/50% then you can't count on it to work by itself.

- Matt

[Matt_Bernius]

Apart from the McDonalds incident, the rest are all false.
http://www.snopes.com/legal/lawsuits.aspWe've gone way of topic. And by the looks of things, we've also completely exhausted this subject. So, before this goes anywhere else, let's lock this down...

*Clunk*