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Jack
29-Mar-2003, 08:56 PM
Which of these routines looks better for a beginner weightlifter? Equal emphasis on appearance and strength.


Monday:

Bench Press - 3 x 8-12
Pullups - 3 x failure
Squat - 3 x 12-15

Thursday:

Military Press - 3 x 8-12
Dumbell Row - 3 x 8-12
Deadlift - 3 x 4-6


Or

Monday and Thursday:

Bench Press
Pullup
Squat
Deadlift

Feel free to list any other abbreviated routines.

THEGREAT1
29-Mar-2003, 09:57 PM
not enuf exercise really for either to be ideal.


easier to make suggestions if you state what equipment you have at your disposal and how often you are able to train.

and by appearance u mean tone, or get big and muscular:-)?

(btw u can rotate systems every few months to develop muscles and strength on more specific workouts)

Telsun
29-Mar-2003, 10:12 PM
Well Jack they both seem like good routines. Personally I would go with the second option.
Do the big exhausting exercises first (squats & deadlifts) so you can give them your all.
I don't suggest doing squats and deadlifts in the same workout though. These two exercises are killers, well they should be when done with maximum effort, unless you are just using light weights on one of them.
Why don't you cycle with squats and deadlifts. Say have 3 months with squats and then 3 months with deadlifts. Better still 1 year with squats and a year with dl's!
I would suggest alternating overhead press with bench press. O/p's really work the entire shoulder area as well as working the chest to a small degree. It is not as satisfying to perform but will work "useful" muscles. You will find that your chest gets plenty of work from push ups anyway.
Do you have squat racks or a spotter who can take the bar from you if you fail on squats? If you do not then I do not recommend very heavy squating. High reps work well for the lower body. You should try high rep bentleg deadlifts, especially if you can't squat safely. But don't do d/l's to failure for safety sake.
If your still training your martial arts you may find that even just twice a week training will lead to overtraining. Don't be afraid to cut this back to once a week. Aslong as you train hard and progressively you will still make gains.
Like I suggested before read Brawn or Beyond Brawn by Stuart McRobert. Either of those books will help you beyond believe.

YODA
29-Mar-2003, 10:24 PM
No 1 looks optimum Jack.

Up the reps on the deadlift though - same as squats.

Telsun's safety advice is bang on.

Telsun
29-Mar-2003, 10:31 PM
Yeah okay. I must agree with Yoda taking another look at your routine. Routine 1 meets all the suggestions that I made!! I still advocate doing the larger more demanding exercises at the beginning of the workout though. And yes high rep d/l.

MUST........AGREE.........WITH.........YODA!!!! NO, NO MUST.........THINK........FOR.........MYSELF!!!!!!

YODA
29-Mar-2003, 11:41 PM
LOL!

I agree on the order - big stuff 1st :D

Jack
30-Mar-2003, 09:54 AM
Okay, cool, I will go with the first routine. I'm not doing Martial Arts at the moment so I will be safe from Overtraining.

So, I will do the following.

Day 1.

Squat - 3 x 12-15
Bench Press - 3 x 8-12
Pullups - 3 x failure

Day 2.

Deadlift - 3 x 12-15
Military Press - 3 x 8-12
Dumbell Row - 3 x 8-12

I will aim for failure on the last set of each exercise.

On equipment, the situation is awful. I have no gym. I have no spotter. I have to military press the Squat weight onto my traps to squat, and because I am squatting with a bed behind me I can lower the weight onto the bed when I am finished. I will have to roll the barbell off of me when Bench Pressing also. I've dealt with both of these before, and am always very careful.

I will throw in 2 days/week of a Cardio/Ab/Stretching workout also.

YODA
30-Mar-2003, 10:24 AM
Jack - be VERY careful!

Do not take squats to failure.

Telsun
30-Mar-2003, 12:21 PM
I must agree with Yoda, be extremely careful. If you are using weights that are heavy enough to fail on then you are very vunerable to injury without the correct safety equipment.

I was in exactly the same situation as you. I used to do squats by pressing the weight over my head but the problem is you can squat a hell of alot more than you can press. What are you going to do when you get to 1.5xyour bodyweight in the squat? It may seem like you will never get there but work slowly and add just a little weight each week and you will soon be.
Although squats are probably the best all over mass building exercise in existance bent legged deadlifts can be just as productive. It will take you a while to get in the groove but it will be worth it. You will be able to perform the exercise with no fear of what to do if you fail. You can also eventually end up using major weights for this exercise. I urge you to give it a try. Using the maximum weight you can handle for both workouts in the week may prove to be too much in the beginning or when the weight starts getting really heavy. So just use about 70% of your max on one workout and all out on the other. Listen to your body!!

I fail to see how you can roll the weight onto the bed after Bench Press. You are going to work to failure, this implies to me that you will not be able to push the bar back up to the start position. Are you going to roll the bar over your kneck then up and over your face? Might be worth going for a dumbell bench press or forget the bench altogether and go for pushups. Do slow controlled push ups in perfect form and I bet you will be repping out within no time. Bench Press is just upside down Push Ups anyway. Same effect.

Try using just 2 sets for upper body and up the weight you're using so you still reach failure. Put pull ups before bench press (or alternative if you change your mind), but you could still keep to 3 sets for these as, if your anything like me, you will rep out very early.

The problem with doing cardio etc on your rest days is that your body is not resting. Try to get 2 days before doing anything else to make sure your body has fully recovered from the intense weight training.

Jack. I am not an expert but I have been in your position and at your age I wasted alot of time of stupid "professional bodybuilder" routines. Your on the right track. Hear my advice and take what you will from it. But please the most important message is train SAFELY.

Best of Luck!

Just re-read what I wrote and now realise that it is obvious you would roll the weight down your body when you fail on b/p. Still not advisable. The choice is yours.

Telsun
30-Mar-2003, 12:54 PM
And buy one of these books:

http://hardgainer.com/books.html

The wesite and forum are also very good. The forum members will give you better advice than I ever will!

THEGREAT1
30-Mar-2003, 01:50 PM
ok ....

simple rule....don't do any squat heavy without a spotter, especially since u don't have the squat machine.

don't do to failure as the guys above have mentioned, and to be honest, i'd say same for barbell bench press.

so i assume however much u can military press up for a squat is not going to be a major concern since your shoulders shouldn't be able to lift anything near what your legs can.

for power training, low rep and high weight has the desired effect

i.e. high intensity training.

so core exercises same for building and power.

Deadlift
squat
bench press
military press

given that you're only gonna work out twice a week i suggest doing the split

monday - bench press, squat
thursday - Dead Lift, military press

(btw neither is ideal, the core exercises when done for power training, really should all be done on different days, so that body parts don't get over stressed whilst doing other exercises, hence reducing your performance when you come to the exercises for those body parts)


so here is a suggestion program....maybe not perfect but without the correct equipment etc is not easy to make a perfect program:P

Monday - (chest) bench press - warm up 12-15 reps (light weight)
Jump set 6-8 medium weight
Heavy set 4-6 reps (heavy weight):problem here is that u shouldn't do bench press heavy without a spotter...so maybe u should do heavy sets on dumbells, again not ideal..but better than taking a heavy barbell on the chest)

flyes same as bench press but....lower the rep to 10-12 on the warm up set.

straight arm pullovers - your pecs should already be stretched and warmed up so 2 sets will suffice here,

middle weight - 6-10 reps
heavy 4-8 reps

dips - if possible as a warm down, to failure

(legs)

squat (there is such a thing as a dumbbell squat if you want to go for a slightly safer method:P)

Squat - 12-18 rep warm up
jump set - 8-12
heavy set - 4-6 reps

Lunges same as above

standing calf raises (i assume seated ones aren't optional, based on your equipment)

same as squat routine but lower the warm up reps to 12-15.


Thursday -

(Shoulders) - Military press 10-12 reps warm up.
jump set 6-8
heavys et 4-6

lateral raises same as above

Front raises same, but u shouldn't need the warm up set .

Shrugs. (should be able to go very heavy with these)

15-20 warm up set
10 jump set
heavy to failure.

(Back)

Deadlift - 15 warm up
10 Jump
4-8 heavy

Standing rows same as above and bent over rows as above.

Pull ups to failure

You should probably incorporate some bicep work into this aswell

so

just dumbell/barbell curls with 10-12 warm up, 8 jump and 4-6 heavy.


the problem with this routine is that it is not good to do so many intense exercises so close together in a day, especially the core exercises and it could very easily lead to over training so only work within your own limits. if u need more rest, take more rest etc etc

but with only 2 days to train u have to make best of what you have.

ideally you could atleast split these into a morning routine and an evening routine.

and even better drop to one heavy cardio session a week and use 3 days for the power training. (with a light cardio session in once or twice a week.)

this is probably to intense to begin with, so suggest start light and work your way into a routine and find out what works best for yourself, the more you look into it you'll find more exercises and opinions etc on how things work and you'll find what best suits you which will hopefully make your training more effective, so look at magazines and books, inet sites etc and research into it a bit.

THEGREAT1
30-Mar-2003, 01:51 PM
btw.....

regardless of whether you are a beginner or not, u should still use more exercises than u have listed at the top...simply because in order to develop muscle and power you must have a good range of movement, to allow the development to come in more than one place.

a range of exercises is essential on each body part.

Telsun
30-Mar-2003, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by THEGREAT1
btw.....

regardless of whether you are a beginner or not, u should still use more exercises than u have listed at the top...simply because in order to develop muscle and power you must have a good range of movement, to allow the development to come in more than one place.

a range of exercises is essential on each body part.

Go for your guns................

Unproductive, overtraining of the masses. Jack you're on the right lines with the abbreviated routine don't let people sway you because it is not what the majority of people believe works. It does I asure you. After years of training on programs like THEGREAT1 has just posted I only made very limited progress. Since doing abbreviated programs like you originally suggested my gains have been incredible. Maybe not compared to the monstrous freaks in body building mags but for my own personal history they have been great.

Stick with the abbreviated training, I'm confident others will back me on this........

YODA
30-Mar-2003, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by THEGREAT1
btw.....

regardless of whether you are a beginner or not, u should still use more exercises than u have listed at the top...simply because in order to develop muscle and power you must have a good range of movement, to allow the development to come in more than one place.

a range of exercises is essential on each body part.

http://www.cea.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ceaweb/images/funs/baloney.jpg

It just isn't so!

One exercise per major muscle group is plenty.

Jack
30-Mar-2003, 04:28 PM
I will stick to abbreviated routine.

I will not go to failure on Squats - I know what the buildup to failure feels like and will stop when I get close. I will do a set of nonweighted squats afterwards.

I will go to failure with Bench Press - Purely because I know at the light weight I can bench, from past experience, I can safely handle. When it becomes a challenge to handle it, I will definitely switch to Dumbells or start stopping before failure and finishing off with pushups. I can be sensible about this.

Nevertheless - thank you for posting THEGREAT1, the time you took to write that IS appreciated. :)

So how does this basic plan look?


Mon - Cardio/Abs/Stretch
Tue
Wed - Workout #1
Thu - Cardio/Abs/Stretch
Fri
Sat - Workout #2
Sun

4 training days a week, I should be safe from overtraining considering I will be eating approx. 3500 calories daily. I'll follow this for 3 months - my goal is to put on mass from my current 65kg to 70kg. I know I change my targets from training an awful lot which is why I am not making a longer term target, but I am vowing to complete that one goal before getting side tracked.

Do you think doing the abs on a seperate day is unwise concerning recovery et all? Shall I move abs to the end of my weight workouts?

Thanks very much.

YODA
30-Mar-2003, 04:39 PM
What ab exercises are you doing Jack?

Jack
30-Mar-2003, 05:09 PM
Reverse Crunch, Crunch, Twist Crunch, Side V-Up, and Reverse Trunk Twist. Works intercostals, obliques, and the rectus abdomis. One set of 8-20 slow, tensed reps.

YODA
30-Mar-2003, 05:16 PM
Ever though of getting a Swiss Ball for crunches etc?

They are VERY good.

Jack
30-Mar-2003, 05:25 PM
I'd love to YODA, but I'm lucky to have the floorspace to do a pushup in this house. :(

YODA
30-Mar-2003, 06:23 PM
You could always throw out a chair & sit on the ball :D

YODA
30-Mar-2003, 06:29 PM
What about one of those small blow up saucer shaped thingies - they kinda work in a similar way but don't take as much room?

Jack
30-Mar-2003, 06:33 PM
I don't know what you're talking about with the "blow up saucer shaped thingies" :D but I get an intensely satisfying tough abs workout with the floor as it is.

Oh yes, I will also be back bridging on my Abs workouts.

Telsun
30-Mar-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by YODA
What about one of those small blow up saucer shaped thingies - they kinda work in a similar way but don't take as much room?

LOL - What the hell are you on about? Saucer thingies.

YODA
30-Mar-2003, 06:48 PM
Something like this.....

Fit Disc (http://www.bodytrends.com/products/ball/fitdisc.htm)


Power wheels are awesome too - especially the one that Erik Paulson uses...



Power wheel (http://www.mattfurey.com/powerwheel.html)

Telsun
30-Mar-2003, 08:52 PM
OK Yoda I'll let you have that. It was actually a rather good description!!
The power wheel looks interesting and being recommended by top martial artists (creep, creep) must be worth a go.

THEGREAT1
30-Mar-2003, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by YODA



It just isn't so!

One exercise per major muscle group is plenty.


L O L

if u want to continue growing and developing it isn't

u will plateu and also your power will only come from certain areas ensuring u have limits. (not to mention that if u gain considerably on such a limited program u will end up muscle bound)


as for abs jack....

doing them quite regularly and on different days seems ok, it is a muscle that recovers relatively quickly and not strictly a a power muscle, unless u plan on lifting 20kg weights with it etc:p


there's a lot of different theories on abs, mine are covered by a layer of fat since i'm not on a toning or fintess based program so i am not the best on abs:P.

i'm told doing abs in the morning before eating, when your body has used a lot of nutrients in the night is the best time as it will draw energy from the fat reserves around them and hence they will be more defined..(that's from a toning point of view) if you are gonna do power training on them, the day is not as critical as it is with most other body parts as it is not a muscle group used a lot during the other lifts so it shouldn't be as stressed.


and yoda if you are gonna make a post about sumthin with your opinions that's fine but don't rubbish someones elses...and i'll tell ya why your statement is ludicrous....

i did a simplified program very similar to the ones originally stated by jack myself for a time...and my gains in strength were good but my gains in muscle were very limited and it resulted in me lifting weight that started to give me joint trouble simply because the support muscles that help growth and the muscles and joints around them, were not developing with the rest of me.

so i have experience of this as well

"it just isn't so" is your experience perhaps, it is not a fact.

u have to look at the big picture if u wanna do things right.

maybe what u say will work for jack maybe not.

and maybe he'll workout for himself what's best over time.i would hope so:P

different people respond better to different training anyway, so no one can put a deffinitive statement on such a thing, only advice.

YODA
30-Mar-2003, 09:43 PM
Yo GREAT1

What we're talking about here is a strength training routine for a 16 year old.

I stand by everything I've said.

Sorry though - I can't let this one go....

not to mention that if u gain considerably on such a limited program u will end up muscle bound

LOL!

Do you actually know what "muscle bound" is? Do you have any actual experience and/or qualifications in the prescription of exercise programmes?

I'm sure Jack will continue to research & make his own mind up.

Caveat Emptor!

Cain
30-Mar-2003, 09:53 PM
Caveat Emptor!

Wat's that?



|Cain|

YODA
30-Mar-2003, 11:00 PM
Caveat Emptor is Latin ..... Let the buyer beware!

I.e. Consider all information and make up your own mind!

Cain
30-Mar-2003, 11:03 PM
Oh, Thanx ;)

|Cain|

YODA
30-Mar-2003, 11:08 PM
Kinda figured GREAT1 would appreciate it - given his sig line :D

Jack
31-Mar-2003, 05:50 AM
Thanks for the post THEGREAT1 but I do disagree with a lot of what you say. I am not unresearched by any means, I have researched fitness for a few years now in detail but I am just a little rough around the edges so though I would check this routine over with others.

Mine and many other's opinion - Abdominals recover at the SAME RATE as any other muscle. Abdominals are a power muscle, they provide core strength that translates to martial arts and most definitely in Squats and Deadlifts. Doing abs in the morning before breakfast is not going top create enough of an aerobic effect to start burning any noticable amount of fat, and if fat is used its from all-over the body, NOT from that specific area. Spot shooting doesn't happen.

I'm sure that after 3 months of this, if I want to continue lifting, I will change my program. I will probably have a few more compound exercises in their to stimulate new growth, but right now I doubt its a necessity.

Thanks for the replies, though. :)

Jack

THEGREAT1
31-Mar-2003, 06:32 AM
Originally posted by YODA
Yo GREAT1

What we're talking about here is a strength training routine for a 16 year old.

I stand by everything I've said.

Sorry though - I can't let this one go....



LOL!

Do you actually know what "muscle bound" is? Do you have any actual experience and/or qualifications in the prescription of exercise programmes?

I'm sure Jack will continue to research & make his own mind up.

Caveat Emptor!

hehe .....i have experience not qualifications..doesn't mean i don't know what i'm talking about...and stand by what u said if u want i never said any of it was wrong..what i said was...rubbishing my post was out of order as it based on both experience and years of info gaining from body builders i know, body builders and power lifters i have trained with, advice from fitness instructors and based on a lot of research from muscle mechanics books, and body building magazines.....which includes masses of information by people who've been training their whole lives ...these people do not all come up with ..."balloni"

your opinion and personal experience cannot/does not outweight that of everyone else it is merely another point of view.

saying "it's just not true" is out of order

and muscle bound = bound by muscle, restricted movement.....a feature of many people with loads of muscle.

and jack like i said, i'm not an expert on abs :-)

i have never paid them to much attention. ....however the reason they are said to recover quickly is purely due to the fact that they are constantly used and hence are fitter and more used to action than many other muscle groups which results in the faster recovery, it's not based on them being superior or anything:P

but that's just sumthin i once read so dunno how it applies to anyone but the guy who said it:P

Bon
31-Mar-2003, 06:54 AM
Are you on 'roids?

Telsun
31-Mar-2003, 07:31 AM
THEGREAT1 noone I am sure wishes to "rubbish" your post. Generally when I advise people on abbreviated training there is a massive retaliation. Now it seems I am in good company and that people here realise abbreviated training is the most beneficial form of training for the average guy.

u will plateu and also your power will only come from certain areas ensuring u have limits. (not to mention that if u gain considerably on such a limited program u will end up muscle bound)
I have not reached a plateau and I am most definetly not muscle bound!!!

I too was a walking encylopedia of "professional" bodybuilders. I had tried their routines. Spending hours in the gym sometimes 7days a week. I never made serious gains and often felt drained and weak. Okay we all differ and what works for some will not work for others but the type of training that you have been brain washed into accepting as the norm generally only works for the genetically gifted or those pumped with steroids (the unspoken secret of the pros). It took me a long time to accept this and it wan't until my now longterm friend (and the biggest guy I know) "showed me the light" and gave me a book to read that I finally realised that I had been wasting so much time.
Like I have suggested to Jack, I also suggest to you that you buy one of the books on the link I posted, or visit that websites forum. You are entitled to your own opinion put do not be blinkered by a certain way.
I have also read about training before breko and I agree with THEGREAT1:eek: If you are looking to loose weight it does make sense to train at that time of day, but like you say Jack you will have to go all out on the cardio.
I'm sure that after 3 months of this, if I want to continue lifting, I will change my program. I will probably have a few more compound exercises in their to stimulate new growth, but right now I doubt its a necessity.

You do not need to change your program!! Why change if the exercise routine you are using is working? Maybe have a little change but keep the core exercises. 3 months is a very short time to get VERY strong in any exercise.
I'll follow this for 3 months - my goal is to put on mass from my current 65kg to 70kg. I know I change my targets from training an awful lot which is why I am not making a longer term target, but I am vowing to complete that one goal before getting side tracked.
It is best to set short term goals but it is also wise to be realistic. Instead of 5kg, how about adding just 2kg of muscle. May not seem much but 2kg every 3 months for a year is 8kg, 2 years 16kg. You get the picture. Keep your goals realistic, missing goals will destroy your enthusiam.
I found strength gains to be my best short term goals. Say you can squat 30kg for your given rep count aim to be squating 40kg by the end. You may even exceed your goal and you will feel fantastic. Be careful though, be pleased with your progress no matter how little it is. Do not sacrifice everything just to meet your goal. Each little realistic goal will add up to an impresive long term goal. You will get there with little steps.

THEGREAT1
01-Apr-2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Telsun
THEGREAT1 noone I am sure wishes to "rubbish" your post. Generally when I advise people on abbreviated training there is a massive retaliation. Now it seems I am in good company and that people here realise abbreviated training is the most beneficial form of training for the average guy.


I have not reached a plateau and I am most definetly not muscle bound!!!

I too was a walking encylopedia of "professional" bodybuilders. I had tried their routines. Spending hours in the gym sometimes 7days a week. I never made serious gains and often felt drained and weak. Okay we all differ and what works for some will not work for others but the type of training that you have been brain washed into accepting as the norm generally only works for the genetically gifted or those pumped with steroids (the unspoken secret of the pros). It took me a long time to accept this and it wan't until my now longterm friend (and the biggest guy I know) "showed me the light" and gave me a book to read that I finally realised that I had been wasting so much time.
Like I have suggested to Jack, I also suggest to you that you buy one of the books on the link I posted, or visit that websites forum. You are entitled to your own opinion put do not be blinkered by a certain way.



ok from a power and martial arts perspective....and not a building one...u still need range of movement, without it your power is all concentrated, meaning u can't generate full power from different angles(u still get power from practice if nuthin else, but it is not as much as u could have)...

from a building perespective.....if u trained 7 days a week on occasion it was either 25 years ago or else u weren't the walking encyclopedia u thought u were:p

i've never seen anyone who does or reccomends intense weight training 7 days a week apart from possibly some of the older guys from the 70's etc.

the 2 biggest guys i know all do body building with the techniques i'm familiar with, one of my friends/aquaintances:P came 3rd in mr scotland last year... and he doesn't come in and do an abbreviated workout as u suggest....but then the 3rd biggest guy i know doesn't weight train at all and is 252lbs 6'4 (not fat) ..doesn't mean do what he does, it just means he's a genetic freak.

personally i did an abbreviated routine when i was 16-17 and i gained zero muscle and marginal strength..since i changed to a full routine i gained 42 lbs(3 stone) in a year and a half ...i am no genetic freak and i never touch steroids etc .i have to work my ass off to keep my weight, i lose it quickly and i can't put it on easily.(btw my training is very sporadic, i am not good in the motivation department, so my gains over that 1.5 years could have been more, hard to say for sure of course)

to use such one dimentional programs is fine, it works for some, but there are deffinate limits all depends just how ambitious you are.

as for hours in the gym, depends what ya mean by that.

i know that most BB workouts usually are designed to last between 30 mins and 1 hour and there is a workout done 4 or 5 days a week.

so i dunno if you mean hours at time or what ...probably not but thought i'd bring it up just incase(maybe the plans have changed since your time on them).

as for the link and books etc i'll take a look, but bear in mind i have been down that road to very little effect

btw to jack..

you should perhaps read up on muscle fibres as there as fast twitch and slow twitch etc, fast twitch provide more explosive power etc, so depending what kind of power u want to have, perhaps u should look at that.

U can affect which fibres you are training by duration, and rep speed etc.

e.g. fast reps = explosive power, slow reps = pure strength etc etc.

there's some good threads on that at the sherdog.net (i hope it aint against the rules post links to other forums here apologies if it is) forums strength and power section if u wanna look there.

THEGREAT1
01-Apr-2003, 02:43 PM
PS.....btw...

so i don't give wrong impression.

i aint pretending that all my gains are muscle btw, i carry a fair bit more water than i used to and i carry a little fat now, but the muscle gains are still significant and the strength gains are heavily significant.

Telsun
01-Apr-2003, 03:46 PM
from a building perespective.....if u trained 7 days a week on occasion it was either 25 years ago or else u weren't the walking encyclopedia u thought u were
Yeah I exaggerated. I think the most I ever trained was every other day.
but bear in mind i have been down that road to very little effect
So had I, also to little effect. I later found my approach was wrong. I found it to be very effective when I gave it another go with more knowledge on the subject.

You have done very well on your chosen routine style. Stick with it, if it works:)

Jack
01-Apr-2003, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by THEGREAT1

btw to jack..

you should perhaps read up on muscle fibres as there as fast twitch and slow twitch etc, fast twitch provide more explosive power etc, so depending what kind of power u want to have, perhaps u should look at that.

U can affect which fibres you are training by duration, and rep speed etc.

e.g. fast reps = explosive power, slow reps = pure strength etc etc.

there's some good threads on that at the sherdog.net (i hope it aint against the rules post links to other forums here apologies if it is) forums strength and power section if u wanna look there.


Yes, I've researched them although my knowledge is a little basic on them now. Thanks. :)

I'll do the abbreviated routine - if it works for me I will stick with it, if it doesn't then I may consider a different approach. I will definitely give it time, though!

THEGREAT1
02-Apr-2003, 01:05 PM
sounds reasonable :-)

THEGREAT1
02-Apr-2003, 01:10 PM
telsun.....

i went to that forum to have a look but u can't virew it without signing up......it doesn't allow free e.mail addresses but also doesn't allow u to hide your e.mail address....makes you use real name...seems like a bit of a marketing scam forum....

anyway /me aint gonna sign up to one like that, if there's some others on the topic let me know

Telsun
02-Apr-2003, 02:35 PM
I assure you it is genuine. No marketing scam. I know of no others.

Cain
02-Apr-2003, 02:45 PM
You can make a temp mail address and give some other name, I do the same for all :)

Be glad it's not asking for your credit card number :D

|Cain|

KickChick
02-Apr-2003, 06:09 PM
Just some added comments....
Plyometric exercise together with your weight training can be combined to maximise the use of those fast twitch muscles and to develop more explosive power.

By performing fast movements you increase the percentage of fast twitch fibers and decrease the percentage of slow twitch fibers.
Fast twitch fibers are those used when you lift heavy. They also "take over" when slow twitch fibers become fatigued. But, fast twitch fibers are also used during high-speed trained movements that use lighter weights too.
You can increase in the percent of fast twitch muscle fibers by doing fast eccentric movements (eccentric is the "lowering" part of a weight exercise). Although high-speed eccentric training can stimulate muscle adaptation, there is a high risk of injury.
I would say it is safer to lift fast during the "lifting", rather than the "lowering" part of an exercise.

Fast twitch muscle fibers are those that contract quickly, require anaerobic (with out oxygen) energy metabolism of carbs and are used during speed and power activities.
Slow twitch muscle fibers are just the opposite. These muscle fibers gets their energy aerobically (with oxygen) , and can use both carbs and fat in steady state endurance.

Plyometrics are extremely beneficial for training fast twitch muscles.

Bear in mind too that the percentage of both types of muscle fibers you have is genetic, but the majority of "average"people have about an equal amount.