Are belts necessary

[Shisochin]

We all (most of us anyway) have some sort of a belt or ranking system in the styles we practice. But are belts neccessary. You may be a black belt, but get into a situation on the street your opponent wont give a damn what grade you are. In the street your only armed with your knowledge. Even in class i've seen orange belts performin a better punch than brown belts. Some even know and can do the syllabuses of the higher grades better than they can.
I suppose there are 2 sides. In class it does show personal achievement. But on the street its nothing.

What are your opinions on the usefullness of grades/belts??
As Bruce Lee said - "Belts....Belts are used for holding your pants up"

Shisochin - The "Master Of Darkness"

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Handy for an instructor to see who knows what, kinda like Scout badges, and nice psychological effect to have a goal to aim for. Don't know about you though, but I only wear a martial arts belt in class.

[neryo_tkd]

Don't know about you though, but I only wear a martial arts belt in class.

where else would/could you wear a belt??? :confused: i mean you wear it with your uniform in a MA related situation: class, demonstration, competiton and that's it.



Schisochin, you might want to check out the following thread with the same topic:
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21388&highlight=belt+system

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Well to be fair I do wear belts out when I'm going to work, but they're a slightly different thing, being leather and all.

Hmm, an idea for a new martial arts product strikes. :D

[Shisochin]

What i meant was that when you fight in the street - your opponent isn't going to know what belt you are is s/he.........of course you dont where them out of class..

[Mrs Owt]

Hmmm...I didn't check off any of the the three. I don't think they are "necessary"and I don't usually wear one to keep my pants up - my chubby little hips do that quite nicely on their own. Although I do have to say belts can be a nice accessory.:rolleyes:

I think you will find many people have valid reasons why they retain belt ranking systems and many do it just to impress parents and try to convince them that they are a legitimate martial art , because "look ma, I give out belts!". The first usually don't have huge problems but the second may as they begin to get labelled as a mcdojo or lose credibility.

I train in three arts that do give out belts and one that doesn't. I don't feel I am getting an added bonus in the ones that do, that is simply the way it is done there. The one that doesn't, doesn't. Simple.

It is when you get caught up in them as a student or use them ridiculously as a reward or cash cow as an instructor that the problems occur. Mature people, following rational requirements will have no huge issues with a belt system. Mature people, following rational requirements will have no huge issues with a no belt system.

**EDIT** previous clarifying post was posted at the same time. Sorry my above post doesn't really address your issue!!! Sorry!:o

[neryo_tkd]

Well to be fair I do wear belts out when I'm going to work, but they're a slightly different thing, being leather and all.

Hmm, an idea for a new martial arts product strikes. :D


hahahaha but we are not talking about fashion, are we?! that is why I found your post funny :D :D :D



I personally don't have anything against belts as long as they are given by a skilled instructor in a quality dojang. I can remember how happy I was to receive my first belt and every other belt after that. It's kind of a reward for your hard work.

But if I trained in an art that doesn't have belts, it would be fine too.

[GojuKJoe]

first of all, i don't know about anyone else, but my karate belt doesn't hold my pants up anyway. i think belts are good as targets to aim for when you're training, especially for young children.

[neryo_tkd]

first of all, i don't know about anyone else, but my karate belt doesn't hold my pants up anyway.

maybe because that's not its purpose!!! :p




i think belts are good as targets to aim for when you're training, especially for young children.

and what if you are supposed to aim for the head? :D :D :D

[Shisochin]

and what if you are supposed to aim for the head? :D :D :D

aim for a bandana....../shrug/

[neryo_tkd]

aim for a bandana....../shrug/


what if the other guy doesn't have one??? then you might have a problem :D :D :D

[Freeform]

The only thing I see as a problem with no grading syllabus is, when do you know that someone is good enough to teach?

[neryo_tkd]

The only thing I see as a problem with no grading syllabus is, when do you know that someone is good enough to teach?


I can see your point, but on the other side someone can hold a black belt but not be able to teach. I guess it all comes down to skill.

[Athleng Nordic]

We don't use them. We have an advancement system but nothing you can see readily. We just know amongst ourselves.

[Shisochin]

We don't use them. We have an advancement system but nothing you can see readily. We just know amongst ourselves.



and what system is that Nordic???

[Thomas]

Are belts necessary?
I would have voted for "No" if the option had been there.

Some systems have a belt system and it can be a very useful tool to record skills progression (I look at them as "book marks" of the curriculum), to indicate what skills a person has learned/should be learning/needs to learn (especially useful if you rotate intsructors around or have a large roster), and may be useful as a form of motivation for some learners (especially young ones). A belt system can be good, but...

It is not necessary. There are many other ways to do the same thing without belts. For many of us though, we are in formal systems that we love and respect and are taught by people we love and respect... so instead of leaving the system because you "have to wear a belt", many of us just follow the system and use it to its best.

[daftyman]

My teacher has a certificate in his flat giving him authority to teach.......from Foghorn Leghorn!

I think grading has its use, but there seems to be almost too many grades. This means that if someone has a spectacularly good day they might advance a grade, when they were only that good for that day.

I also don't particularly like the idea of only being able to learn more if you have passed/paid for all the necessary gradings.

I prefer the following:
Beginner (learning the basic drills, movements, etc)
Advanced Student (Learning the fuller curriculum, but not eligible to teach)
Assistant teacher (helping out in class, taking beginners classes if no teacher available)
Teacher (self explanatory)

I feel that a few schools abuse the grading system for the sake of monetary gain. This harms the art to my mind. Definitely puts people off.

Liked the idea of 'scout badges' though.
Kicking someone in the nuts badge
Chopping piece of wood badge.
Doing kata without falling over badge
etc.

[Kwajman]

It really is a psychological thing for me and a lot of others. Doesn't make us tougher or stronger, more fearless or afraid. I feel better when I put my belt on and cinch up the knot.

[Athleng Nordic]

and what system is that Nordic???
We use t-shirts nobody wears. We have testing every 3 months and if the couch and you think you're ready you test. No cost but it's a verbal, written and physical test.

[shaolin_hendrix]

Keep in mind, the only reason schools use belts is for organization. They let the instructer know who's ready to learn what, and who's prepared to do what.

[MarioBro]

It really is a psychological thing for me and a lot of others. Doesn't make us tougher or stronger, more fearless or afraid. I feel better when I put my belt on and cinch up the knot.
I agree with you...it does give you a certain satisfaction to see your progress, uness your instructors gives out belts no matter of the skill level. I know our Master did not let a few students test because they were not ready, and this makes me sooo much happier about the grading system at our school when right and wrong prevails over monetary matters. It can also be motivating for them when they see others with new belts and they were not able to test (if they quit because of this, then they will always blame others for their failures in life anyhow). In most facets of our lives we set goals and then we try to achieve them. When we do achieve them, we set a new goal and work towards that. If we did not have these goals (belts) then there is no real aim or motivation in life, in my opinion.

As mentioned, the instructors also quickly know who is able to assist whom else with their moves, patterns, etc. because of the belt they wear.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

Even in class i've seen orange belts performin a better punch than brown belts. Some even know and can do the syllabuses of the higher grades better than they can.

surprised no one else pointed this out, but thats not a fault of the belt system. thats a fault of your school. in any school worth their salt, if a orange belt is beating brown belts then either the brown belts get demoted or the orange belts get promoted.

as for a belt system, no i dont think its neccessary. in both my judo and thai boxing classes, our instructor always trains and spars with us. so they know what level we are at all the time and there is no need for belts. in a larger school though, i can see they would be useful- you cant always keep track of every student.

[Scarlet Mist]

Belts are cool. Although I don't like being referred to as "X belt" or "Y belt". Belts are also good for clapping on cats when they run up on your spot - damn those buckles hit hard.

[tommy]

Belts were originally ONLY white, and they turned colors by the sweat and time spent etc.

I think the belts are necessary as a way for the student to guage where they are on their path....I don't agree with giving belts out because of time spent though. I know dojos who will test and give belts out every 3 or 6 months, regardless of skill level.

The color of the belt has a spiritual attachment to them as well, so a student can understand what each color signifies on that level.

Lastly, I know it is partly responsible for keeping students motivated..striving to get to the next level. Training for a belt is always a bad thing, but we have all been there and you do feel good when you earn another color..

[samuri-man]

not really nessisary but i use em

[Tribalweapon]

I think belts can be a good thing as long as you earn it. I have heard of some schools testing every 3-6 months and I really don't agree with this. At my first school, the instructor tested one or two people at a time when he thought you were ready and the test was grueling. I like this way of testing because you don't have, say, ten instructors testing a hundred students. Then again this is my personal opinion so feel free to :woo: me if you disagree.


p.s. I understand that some schools are rather large so this is almost immpossible

[Johndoe]

I don't need a belt to keep my pants up consitering that they are always down, Just kidding. I don't like the belt system.



:bang: dope! i shouldn't of said that! Please don't kick me off!!!!! :bang:

[shaolin_hendrix]

I don't need a belt to keep my pants up consitering that they are always down, Just kidding. I don't like the belt system.



:bang: dope! i shouldn't of said that! Please don't kick me off!!!!! :bang:
LOL

[Pacificshore]

You may be a black belt, but get into a situation on the street your opponent wont give a damn what grade you are. In the street your only armed with your knowledge. Even in class i've seen orange belts performin a better punch than brown belts. Some even know and can do the syllabuses of the higher grades better than they can.
I suppose there are 2 sides. In class it does show personal achievement. But on the street its nothing.Shisochin - The "Master Of Darkness"
Even though this is a poll on the usefulness of a belt, the inference has been drawn once again back to a street situation, and that the high ranking belts that you have seen are bad, and that the lower ranking ones are better. Just because the lower rank student can "throw" a better punch than the brown belt student, or "can perform" the higher criteria better, still dosen't mean that they will fair any better than the lousy high ranking student in a "street" situation :eek: :bang:

[CobraMaximus]

IMHO belts that are dependant on the time you have practiced the art etc. like in Aikido are good because they show you have experience. THey also show what knowledge you have and give you something to take withyou when you leave or so say to people like 'I got myblack belt'

[oni_sensei]

In the dojang, I see the belt rankings as somewhat of an apprenticeship. From white to black, you are building up your foundations gradually, until you finally reach the novice grade, ie black belt. From there you work your butt off even harder, as you get into the nitty gritty side of the art. Of course, it's common sense that every student should show that they are worthy of their rank, but as said before, it's often used as a cash cow.

With regards to the street situation analogy, we know that the opponent is not going to give a damn about our rank, what colour belt we are should be the last thing on our mind. Students need to learn the distinction between rank and actual skill, and not take their advancement up the ladder for granted.

In summary, I don't find anything wrong with a ranking system at all, be it belt, singlet or just an understanding, but instructors need to keep their students up to scratch, and discipline them as necessary.

[davey boy]

i believe that your belt is meant as a mark of respect, to you, from your teacher. its visible around your waist so that any guest in your dojo may readily see for themselves. .. mine also holds my top closed , sort of . doesnt help with the trousers one bit tho

[MarioBro]

Absolutely...after all, achieving a blcak belt simply means that we are ready to begin learning our arts.

[Tankx1st]

I see Belts are way to know your rank

but I DISLIKE PAYING FOR IT!

I had to pay for my Black belt in Judo and ju jitsu for $300!!!!!!!
THREE HUNDRED DOLLARS FOR A PIECE OF CLOTH!
and my 1st degree little Dan Sheet

was it worth it? i don't know, :no comment:

I only Learned 3 moves a belt
Thats the system in belts(i hate that)
Belts are koo
but seriously! don't limit what i can learn and do!

[Shadow Wolfie]

Belts are a great method for, at a quick glance, providing the instructor with knowledge of each person's knowledge. Also, they are great ways to ensure that someone does not learn too much, too fast, before they can handle it and potentially hurt someone. They also help keep students from being overwhelmed with information, over achieving, and burning out.

[TrueCelt]

Belts are in many ways neccessary, although there is the issue of them being used as the old cash cow.

They mark the distance the individual has come on their journey from start to now. Yes not every one has the same ablity, so it marks how they have improved. This does lead to some lower belts being able to preform bettter than some higher belts, but an outsider does not generally know the starting postion of each student. The individual has a sense of having progressed in their own right. The path becoming a little more defined.

Visiting instructors can see the technique levels of students at a glance. So does not ask to much that is beyond a student. Here there is always the option to let students try something more advanced, the taste of what is to come. He/She can identify the students that can assist in this. Senior students should always be looking out for the more junior students, to help prevent mishaps.

The belt is a useful mark for where to focus in defence drills, so as to have the best peripheral vision to be able to block attacks.

[Simplicity]

Belts help the student to know were there at, in the style. Now after saying that. There are plenty of martial artist that walk around with High Degree Black Belts. That couldn't fight there way out of a paper bag that was wet and the other end open. Also, there are very talented Black belts with high rank, that can and to them knowledge is more important then belts. Some people need to see progress and others feel progress. Which one are YOU?

[Simplicity]

What works for one may not work for others!

[Stormrider]

I think that they are in many schools as both a motivational tool and a means to help divide/group students up that are at similar points in the curriculum.

[Scarmiglione]

Personally, I feel no need for belts, i've been doing Shotokan for 2 years now, and have only tested once, to yellow belt. And that was only 'cuz our uniforms are black with gold lettering, it looks snazzier this way! :cool:

[NaughtyKnight]

Sure belts are good. Rankings are good because it sets out a structure and gives the students something to lookforward to.

[Poop-Loops]

Belts were originally ONLY white, and they turned colors by the sweat and time spent etc.

Let me see if I can understand this... long story short, you are saying that Kano invented the belt system so he could organize his studends easier? Gotcha!

PL

[Scarlet Mist]

Belts are for whipping people when you don't have a whip.

[gaz shaw]

belts a neccisary so that we have something to aim for, this keeps us working harder and gives us a sence of achievment when we reach our targeted belt.

[Ross.B]

No belt are no needed at all like Bruce lee says in 'Dragon'

(all belts are good for is to keep your pants up) :D

[Kwajman]

Lately I've been thinking more and more that NO we don't need belts.

[MarioBro]

Well, is a score necessary when bowling or throwing darts? Is it necessary to have a diploma on the wall?

There are alot of things that we could say are not necessary, but we do them for various reasons. Pride, accomplishment, motivation, measurement...all very valid reasons. Why should belts be any different? If you feel no need for the things I list above and you feel no need for the belts in your MA, well so be it.

I personally like putting on a belt of specific color when I go to do my workout, as it reminds me of where I started, where I have been and where I am now. It also reminds me of where I am going and symbolizes all the accomplishments I made along the way. So for me personally...I like the idea.

But to each their own...

[aikiMac]

Lately I've been thinking more and more that NO we don't need belts.
What made you change your mind?

[Kemposhot]

I think they are for some people and arent for others. They do give you something to aim for.

[d33pthought]

Should be a polling option "Pants? I don't need no stinkin' pants!" :D

I like belt systems because they give an indication of what students of a given level should know. Also, they can serve as a benchmark when compared to students of other ranks, though previous martial arts experience can make that hit or miss. For example, there's a student who's two belts my junior in TKD, but can whip me like I owe him money on account of being a 2nd dan in Kempo.

[David Field]

If you had no pants you would need no belt!

see Kurohana Pants are on topic!

serious though belts(and pants indeed) are as important as 'YOU' want them to be.

Look a them as goalposts or signposts etc

it means different things to different people, although i suspect alot of westerners would not keep to their MA training wihtout belts especially children.

:-)

[Eero]

Thank God I train in a system that does not put much emphasis on gaining belt ranks. That way I can concentrate on learning the actual skills instead of constantly thinking about what I should know to get my next belt.

[NaughtyKnight]

Gradings are annoying. You have to stop your other training and focus on annoying patterns that take up so much of your time. I'd rather spar, but I still dont want to fail so I train hard. In the end belts dont mean crap.

[Eero]

Gradings are annoying. You have to stop your other training and focus on annoying patterns that take up so much of your time. I'd rather spar, but I still dont want to fail so I train hard. In the end belts dont mean crap.

I find those patterns extremely annoying. I would rather have a grading that would focus on how good you really are instead of focusing on how good you are remembering stuff. I always hated gradings in karate. I had to learn how to do some drill in exactly right form not to mention kata. It would have been less frustrating to spar or show what you can do in less stressful way.

As I said my current style (kung fu) does not put much emphasis on gradings. My first grading in that school will be held in may. The instructors do not even speak about what is expected of us. Yesterday one guy asked what he should know by that time and the instructor just made a joke about it. so the general attitude seems to be that focus on what you are learning right now, put your whole body and mind behind it and the gradings will go just fine.

[Shadow_of_Evil]

To me, anyone who believes belts are a necessary part of martial arts is obviously missing the point.
Either that, or they have a big ego.

[Moosey]

When an instructor stands at the front of the class it's useful for him/her to be able to see at a glance what level the students are at. Coloured belts achieve this although it could just as easily be coloured uniforms or headbands or a big number on the front of your suit)

[Lucharaan]

I never really get any belts in class anyway, so I guess they're not necessary.

[calleo14]

I feel belts are required, The reasoning to show respect my instructor says belts are there to show respect to the art itself no matter what style it is or what organization it all comes from korea,

Now as far as ranking go I could care less, My old instructor threw all the belts in the floor one day and told us to dive in and whatever belt you come out with is what you get so I mean the moral is a belt is your dedication and knowledge of the art there is also a play in instinct so belts shouldnt be used to rank or fear a rank but to respect

R E S P E C T

[kungfufighter]

like bruce lee said, belts only help keep your pants up, if you improve you improve, no need to where a belt.

[GojuKJoe]

They are certainly not necissary, but I do think they add something to training. I do also believe that black belts are way over glorified, because all they really mean is that a person has passed the basic training. They don't make you a master or anything.

[NaughtyKnight]

Blackbelts carry alot of respect on the street, and greatly reduce the danger of people trying to fight you if they know you. My mate is a blackbelt in Hapkido and no one would touch him. If at a party someone asks if we know that guy, so they can steal his phone or whatever, we say "yes, he is my mate and hes a black belt". They leave him well enough alone.

[Jayevan79]

I picked necessary, only because I believe the belts are just symbols of what one has achieved. But by that, I also mean other forms of classification like maybe bandanas, tattoos, rings, etc.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

really KC? over here someone saying they have a black belt is like putting a neon sign on your head saying "bash me please"

[NaughtyKnight]

really KC? over here someone saying they have a black belt is like putting a neon sign on your head saying "bash me please"

Of course it depends on what ma. If its in kickboxing, or Hapkido or somethign like that, no one will touch you. If you have something like a bb in tkd or karate then it would probably lead to people trying to bash you.

[Moosey]

Of course it depends on what ma. If its in kickboxing, or Hapkido or somethign like that, no one will touch you. If you have something like a bb in tkd or karate then it would probably lead to people trying to bash you.

That's a fairly laughable statement. Like some idiot at a party is gonna say "Hmmm, he has a black belt in hapkido, I'd better leave him alone. If it was karate, on the other hand..." :bang:

Your average man on the street has no idea what hapkido is. And the average people on the street don't have as many conversations with MMA egotists knocking TKD and karate as we do on this forum. I'm not saying everyone's impressed by a black belt in TKD (some people see any martial art training as a challenge), but most thugs don't stand around analysing "Well I was thinking of grappling with that guy to steal his wallet but since he does judo perhaps I'll change my tactics and use high kicks instead".

[NaughtyKnight]

That's a fairly laughable statement. Like some idiot at a party is gonna say "Hmmm, he has a black belt in hapkido, I'd better leave him alone. If it was karate, on the other hand..." :bang:

Your average man on the street has no idea what hapkido is. And the average people on the street don't have as many conversations with MMA egotists knocking TKD and karate as we do on this forum. I'm not saying everyone's impressed by a black belt in TKD (some people see any martial art training as a challenge), but most thugs don't stand around analysing "Well I was thinking of grappling with that guy to steal his wallet but since he does judo perhaps I'll change my tactics and use high kicks instead".

Er, the average person does know what Hapkido is, and they know that if they screw around with that guy, there going to get their bones broken.

The average person believes that TKD and Karate are crap, they think its all a bunch of kids jumping around in gis and kiaping.

Most thugs dont stand analysing, thats right, if they think they wont win, they wont mug you, simple as that. Personally, if i was a junkie looking for some money for a quick fix, I wouldnt bother getting 2 broken legs by mugging a bb.

[Moosey]

Er, the average person does know what Hapkido is, and they know that if they screw around with that guy, there going to get their bones broken.

The average person believes that TKD and Karate are crap, they think its all a bunch of kids jumping around in gis and kiaping.

Gotta disagree with you there. But maybe where you live is very different from where I live.

Most thugs dont stand analysing, thats right, if they think they wont win, they wont mug you, simple as that. Personally, if i was a junkie looking for some money for a quick fix, I wouldnt bother getting 2 broken legs by mugging a bb.

That was kinda my point. They don't say If its in kickboxing, or Hapkido or somethign like that, no one will touch you. but in tkd or karate then it would probably lead to people trying to bash you.

MA training is MA training, they'll mug an old lady instead.

[jonmonk]

... If at a party someone asks if we know that guy, so they can steal his phone or whatever, we say "yes, he is my mate and hes a black belt". They leave him well enough alone.

I bet he just loves it when you do that.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

i find it pretty unlikely that everyone has teh ph33r of hapkido. i bet 90% of my friends dont even know what hapkido is or how it is different from karate/tkd. to be frank the only martial arts that get any respect around here are boxing and kickboxing, everything else seems to make you a target.

[NaughtyKnight]

Its probably due to the fact that there is a large amount of Korean gangs in my area. Most of the members do TKD or Hapkido. After getting jumped by them a few times, you learn what Hapkido is.

[thepunisher]

Wasn't it the teacher in Karate kid, Mr. Myagi who said, when asked if Daniel could now have a belt, after learning Karate for a long time, that well, sure he could have his Levis or any other belt because belts don't mean anything ? And who stole a black belt from an official just so Daniel could participate in a tournament.

I'm not exactly sure what the importance is of belts although they do designate at what level you are in your Martial Arts...even though when asked what level you are maybe its better to mention your Kyu instead as belts in different and sometimes even in the same Martial Arts (like Karate)aren't the same. In Shotokan the first achieved belt is yellow (equivalent of 10.th Kyu)while in Seiki-Juku the first belt is red. But maybe its good we have them because imagine all people in the dojo were white belts..you would be facing a black belt in a sparring exercise without even knowing this..and that could end up being very painful.

But belts shouldn't mean to much. After all, I have achieved blue belt now but I do know most things already for the next belt level. And I know in my dojo are some brown belts who from there ability could be the equivalent of a 1.st Dan black belt just because they have been practising for years.

Christian

[Davey Bones]

belts are good as a gauge, but they shouldn't be the be-all-end-all. sadly I have seen BBs who definitley did NOT deserve that black belt around their waist! I think if someone starts a martial art they shouldn't quit, but I think at times too much emphasis is placed on a ranking system instead of the student him or herself...

[NaughtyKnight]

Life is always full of undeservers. We all just have to suck it up and make sure that we deserve the black belts. Its all well and good to have a black piece of material keeping up your trousers, but if you cant fight, whats the use of doing martial arts, might aswell take up knitting.

[Keljian]

Belts are important for classes.

Just last night the dojo was split into three groups, lower grades, middle grades ,and higher grades, these belts enabled the instructors to work on different and identify techniques with different grades of students. Where a white belt might be mastering his kamae, a brown or black belt might be mastering more complicated techniques, so there's a very large distinction between the two in terms of what they are training to learn.

Usually the brown belts (3rd kyu and above) train with black belts, and the lower grades train with each other when it's a large class, when it's a smaller class however everyone trains with everyone else.

So I suppose I'm saying belts are useful for management of classes and easy identification of where students should be in terms of their training. An instructor tool rather than a student tool. Also useful for visiting instructors who aren't familiar with the students.

IMHO any other visible tool for the same job would work.

[ninjas-r-us]

Well, think of it this way, in many places wear the arts originated from, they give you 2 belts, a white one when you started and a black one when you were ready this could be a long time or a short time.

The rank system mostly started from the tradition of reciving a white belt and NEVER washing it and as the grime built up it showed your EXP.

but yall knew that im sure

[ManabiMashoMan]

This is a catch 22 in my opinon.

I would be all for every style breaking away from Rank, Sashes, and Belts to show who was better. Because then the only way to know is by skill and sparring. This would make your style really become alot more realistic and effective no matter what you do.

The only problem is that it would take every style converting to this idea or else if asked what rank are you. Your reply would be We don't have ranks we use skill to determine who is better. That would open a can of worms for many reasons. Eventualy though I think they would start agreeing in a non formal understanding that the best of the class is those who were longest.

So a ranking system would be set up but not be actualy materialistic and noticable by outsiders. But as I said, I would be all for styles changing thier ranks to no ranks.....this would give me some competition at the local Dojos eventualy. Because instead of sparring with a Black Belt who I don't know thier skill or sparring win/lose ratio I would now have to spar with someone whom I was told was the best in thier dojo and constantly sparring to prove it.

[karate princess]

u sometimes find that people wearing white belts are just as good as some of the brown belts. to me belts dont always show the true level of martial arts that person holds. (and i dont need a belt to hold up my pants lol)

[seiki juku kid]

u sometimes find that people wearing white belts are just as good as some of the brown belts. to me belts dont always show the true level of martial arts that person holds. (and i dont need a belt to hold up my pants lol)

valid point but i love my black belt it makes me happy!!! :love: :love: :love:

[karate princess]

valid point but i love my black belt it makes me happy!!! :love: :love: :love:

lol, thats fine, u have to be somewhat good at karate to get a black belt anyway :D

[thepunisher]

lol, thats fine, u have to be somewhat good at karate to get a black belt anyway :D

..in our dojo you have to more than just be "somewhat good" to be a black belt. Going through all the requirements for the belts, doing breaking of bricks and stone and doing a weapons kata + fighting a line-up of fifteen senior black belts in order to pass is pretty exhausting I can imagine. And even for the Junior line up that must be hard. So its definitley a belt to be proud of.
:) :)

Christian

[karate princess]

..in our dojo you have to more than just be "somewhat good" to be a black belt. Going through all the requirements for the belts, doing breaking of bricks and stone and doing a weapons kata + fighting a line-up of fifteen senior black belts in order to pass is pretty exhausting I can imagine. And even for the Junior line up that must be hard. So its definitley a belt to be proud of.
:) :)

Christian
of course a black belt is something to be proud of, i'd be crying lol (ok, maybe not crying, but pretty damn happy)

[Slindsay]

I find it disturbing that 40% of people think that belt's are "Necessary".

[thepunisher]

I find it disturbing that 40% of people think that belt's are "Necessary".

..every style belts are being used so people have gotten used to them and so think they are "necessary". And to be honest, it is hard distinguishing the level of a person without them having them wear there belt. Even in our dojo our sensei classifies the ppl and exercises according to the belts- the front and second row (my row)has to push itself harder than the back row. But yes, due to a recent occurence (see my journal)I'm not that pleased about the belt ranking system of our dojo. If someone becomes a "favorite" of the sensei he could be ranked up even though he has no clue whatsoever about what he has to do for his belt. My ex-buddy is a great example of one such person.

Christian

[DirtyHarry]

yes they are necessary because they show your amount of knowledge in the martial arts community. they are NOT necessary when you go out in the street and say "hey! you better watch out! i'm a black belt!" because then a guy could pull out a gun or something. on the street, the attacker does not care what belt you are. hes not going to say "oh no! that crazy mo fo is black belt! we better skee dadle!" lol. in the martial arts community, it shows your knowledge. thats like saying "oh, grade levels don't matter. just put them all together." good analogy? heh

[Scarmiglione]

i dont think they're needed. I don't care to know how much some1 else knows, or how little. 9 times out of then they're from mcdojos anyway, so how reliable are they? I'm no blackbeltt ( not in my eyes at least), but i've managed to hammer my share of 2nd and 3rd dans. so wheres the credibility, and if theres no credibility, theres no point

[clemsontkd]

i could live without the belt system, i dont think it is necessary. i think more of actual skill that belt color. but without the belt, my dobok would be uncomfortable.

[Tyranith]

You may be a black belt, but get into a situation on the street your opponent wont give a damn what grade you are. In the street your only armed with your knowledge.

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