Chi/Ki energy

[Telsun]

Your opinions please.

What is chi energy?
How do you develop and use it?

I have my own opinion. I am curious as to whether it is shared. Give me some feeback and I will divulge my theory later.

[TkdWarrior]

What is chi energy?
A. it can be anything from breath/air to biomechanical energy lots of theories lots of guesses... depends how u define it...
to me it's breath.

How do you develop and use it?
trhu practice one develops...
using?? unconciously...
-TkdWarrior-

[cioGium]

All around us is energy . you can call it chi , gni , qui, wxdy or anything else ......
What are we made of : head , arms , body , legs
skin, muscles , fat , cartilages , bones
lots of organs
organs - cels
cels :citoplasma,ribozomi, nucleols, golgi ap. etc
and all of this , not only human beeings but even rocks , wood, birds ,**** and sperm comes down in ATOMS !! what are atoms : electrons , neutrons - but this is only a dens zone of what we call energy and what asians call chi/ki so , can you use it? some yogins claim they can stop their hearts from beating (i think i can stop it too but who will start it again????) others say that some grandmasters could bend iron bars and jump 5 m high !!! lies , legends who knows .......you ??

[Telsun]

No, I don't know. Keep it coming.........

[Telsun]

Well not quite the response I was looking for but anyway:

Okay no revelations, I cannot reveal any secrets or give wise words and advice.
My theory is that chi energy is a load of baloney. I believe that people seen to have achieved chi have superb muscle control which is what allows them to exert a force that is commonly called chi. Because people cannot understand how someone can expel so much force they give it a name and put it down to an internal power. Nothing magic nothing unexplainable just muscle control.

Well thats it. Dissappointed? Well I'm not an expert and there is always Rich Mooney.

Anyone care to tell me just how wrong I am?

[Guitarboy1212]

Yes!!!! Finally something in my field

Chi/ki (sometimes spelled qi) energy is the energy that flows through us. Without it we wouldn't live. It is stored in the lower dan tien (I think thats how you spell it) , but surculates mainly through your upper dan tien. Many people believe in ki munipulation. ki munipulation is the ability to move ki through your body. If your good enough you can make it come out of your hands(remember this energy is invisible so all you'll feel is heat), and make a ball with it, known as a ki ball. I would love to get more into this but I would rather tell you via e-mail or pm. My email is fender1212@hotmail.com I can answer most if not all of your questions.

[Guitarboy1212]

YES!!! I thought i was alone on this forum. finally someone on this site who knows!!! :woo:

[Guitarboy1212]

Someone, I'll teach anyone, just contact me!!! :woo:

[TkdWarrior]

Well not quite the response I was looking for but anyway:

Okay no revelations, I cannot reveal any secrets or give wise words and advice.
My theory is that chi energy is a load of baloney. I believe that people seen to have achieved chi have superb muscle control which is what allows them to exert a force that is commonly called chi.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is chi energy?
A. it can be anything from breath/air to biomechanical energy lots of theories lots of guesses... depends how u define it...
to me it's breath.

How do you develop and use it?
trhu practice one develops...
using?? unconciously...
--------------------------------------------
Guitarboy1212
I would love to get more into this but I would rather tell you via e-mail or pm
------------------------------------------
why on pm or email??
-TkdWarrior-

[YODA]

Originally posted by Guitarboy1212
Someone, I'll teach anyone, just contact me!!! :woo:

That's why nobody want to know :D

Roll up roll up - free secrets get yer free secrets here step right up.

:Angel:

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Chi energy was the theory that the blood vessels carried air and not blood, because medics were forbidden from carrying out dissections at the time that the theory was developed except on convicted criminals (who would be beheaded, meaning that their blood vessels would be pretty much emptied) it was decided that these little tubes in the body carried air, and blood was just a substance carried around in the body. After a long time they modified the theory, saying that the veins carried air, and the arteries carried blood.

[Guitarboy1212]

your wrong ckdstudent. And the reason why I want to do it on e-mail or on PM is because then I can answer specific questions, and doen't have to waste my time writing the whole history, and every branch of it

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Actually I'm right, the current theory is different I'm sure, but originally the chi theory was what I described.

[Guitarboy1212]

could you please tell me where you got that information. I'm pretty sure it originated long ago from an asian country (tibet, china, japan, mongolia, korea). I have studied it extensively, and have never found the theory of it being that blood vessels carried air.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I'm not talking about the current theory, I'm talking about the original. In the same way that the west had the theory of humours making up the body, Chi was the idea that the blood vessels carried air, and was an eastern theory equivalent to the humours. To be fair it wasn't too far off, except for the air being bonded into the blood cells. I got that information from a friend of mine who's put a lot of research into the origins of chi theory, as well as several different web pages, unfortunately since it was several years ago that I picked it up I can't give you the addresses offhand, but I'll try and find them.

A little on it here (http://www.theness.com/articles/herbal-cs0203.html)
Some more (http://www.acsh.org/publications/priorities/0903/quackupuncture.html)

Like I said, I'll try and find the actual history of Chi somewhere online, but that's all I could find at short notice.

[Guitarboy1212]

well if you won't to get info on the current ki theory. go to ki-central.hypermart.net look around that website and on their links. here's a website if you want to look up psi munipulation. There's a better one but I can't remember it www.psipog.net ckdstudent, i would be happy to tell you all that I know about it so if those websites don't help pm me or e-mail me (my e-mail is on a post a put on this same thread )

[LilBunnyRabbit]

From the first website:
Many people try to fake making pictures of Ki-Balls. The main reason you won't find many authentic pictures is that:
1)It is VERY hard to concentrate with a camera and a person with you.
2)Most people cannot make visible Ki Balls, but they can feel the heat and force.
3)If they can, most say it only happens at random.

If its so hard to do it with just a camera pointing at you, why bother learning at all since there's no way you'll manage in combat?

I just can't bring myself to believe in something with no even remotely scientific basis, no valid philosophical basis, no solid (or even partially-solid) evidence, in fact nothing other than anecdotal evidence to support it.

[Guitarboy1212]

It's hard to find a good site on ki/chi. The belief gets deluded by Dbzers (a name for little kids who like dragon ball z and go onto these sites wanting to blow up mountains, and screwing up the whole philosophy of what ki really is) I HATE DBZERS!!!!!!

sorry had to get that out of my system.

anyway, it's very hard to find a good quality website on ki/chi energy. And by the way, it's not very effective in battle. Your right. The only thing it's good for is stopping someones organs from working, and you would need alot of time and concentration, without them blocking for it to work, so yes it is a horrible thing to want to use in battle, but it is still very interesting.

[Guitarboy1212]

hey ckdstudent I was going to send this to you on pm but It is 320 characters to long so i'll post it here for you

Hey heres some info on ki/chi energy:

Ki is the Japanese word meaning spirit or life force, it is what makes us alive. It can be explained as the electricity that keeps you alive.

Ki is all around us. It is in air, water and the earth. The bigger the object the more ki it has, that does not apply to humans though. Ki in humans has to be realized and controlled to grow. The ki of a person
can grow to an unlimited amount of power. This is achieved by simple weightlifting, eating right and ki training.

Even though in the west we don’t normally understand ki, in Asia it is a common thing to study on. Even watching Japanese cartoons such as Dragonball and Red Hawk will give you some examples of visible ki. Now normally ki is not visible to the human eye. The part of your body which can view ki is called your third eye or prajna. Energy will often appear to be a lot like a heat wave. You can see it but it does not shine. Later on when you experience and practice seeing ki you can view it as either a blue or yellow lightning type glow.

Entire communities around the world create their own clan of ki users which can be defined in certain criteria organized categories. Most people follow into the healing or Martial Arts categories

I'll try and send you more info on it. This is just the basics
give me your e-mail, because most of the info like this one is to big for pm

[YODA]

Even watching Japanese cartoons such as Dragonball and Red Hawk will give you some examples of visible ki. Now normally ki is not visible to the human eye. The part of your body which can view ki is called your third eye or prajna. Energy will often appear to be a lot like a heat wave. You can see it but it does not shine. Later on when you experience and practice seeing ki you can view it as either a blue or yellow lightning type glow.

Bwaaahahahahahaaaaaaa........

Hey Guitarboy - get yourself over to the James Randi Foundation - there's a million bucks just waiting there fro you if you can substantiate ANY of that codswallop.

The $1 Million Challenge (http://www.randi.org/research/index.html)

[Guitarboy1212]

By the way yoda, that is all from a site. I put that there for ckdstudent. I didn't type any of that. Just copied and pasted. by the way yoda, I went to www.psipog.net (site for paronormal people) and I told them about it, and they said that they had known about it for 3 years now. about 20 of them said that they tried to enter, but they won't let anyone with real powers, and it's just a publicity stunt.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Its not a publicity stunt, a few years ago I got hold of a copy of some of the reports (via a friend of my parents), its just that anyone with real powers refuses to agree to the conditions that are prescribed, which are things such as it must be performed in a sealed room, with the person given no foreknowledge of the location, and so on. They must also have an assistant (if they need one) chosen by the testers, rather than one of their own choice, which seems to be the clause that causes the biggest objections.

[YODA]

Originally posted by Guitarboy1212
By the way yoda, that is all from a site. I put that there for ckdstudent. I didn't type any of that. Just copied and pasted. by the way yoda, I went to www.psipog.net (site for paronormal people) and I told them about it, and they said that they had known about it for 3 years now. about 20 of them said that they tried to enter, but they won't let anyone with real powers, and it's just a publicity stunt.


Bwaaahahahaahahaaaaa...........

Man you crack me up.

[grandmaster mat]

ive never seen this ki energy stuff but i looked at a picture which was suposed to be a ki ball, the bloke said "if u look carefully u can c a heat wave" wat an absolute bunch of bananas

[YODA]

This stuff is usually a handy refuge for those looking for a way to avoid hard athletic training in favour of mystical mumbo jumbo.

Sad - very sad.

[Guitarboy1212]

yah I saw that pic to. It's very hard to get a good quality website on that stuff these days. BECAUSE IT ALL GETS MISINTERERATED BY DBZERS!!!! I HATE DBZERS!!!! Look what there doing. there making this thing look like a joke. Hey whoever did that pic, it sucked! why don't you get a site with real ki partitioners on it (refering to traditional ki, not the dbzer stuff you guys are looking at)

[Freeform]

This stuff is usually a handy refuge for those looking for a way to avoid hard athletic training in favour of mystical mumbo jumbo.


Damn straight br'uther! :D

Col

[JediMasterChris]

So guitarboy have you ever made a ki ball and shot it at something??? That site is a total lie. I am not saying I don't believe in Ki but you should not believe anything on that dragonball Z site. It have under the easy stuff you can do as making a ki ball and shooting it at stuff. That is ********. Sorry to dissapoint you.

[Guitarboy1212]

So guitarboy have you ever made a ki ball and shot it at something??? That site is a total lie. I am not saying I don't believe in Ki but you should not believe anything on that dragonball Z site. It have under the easy stuff you can do as making a ki ball and shooting it at stuff. That is ********. Sorry to dissapoint you

Your not dissapointing me. I told this entire site so MANY TIMES!!! Look at my previous posts. I hate DBZ enriched sites. It's all because of little kids who want to be like dragon ball z, so they distort the belief of ki. The type of ki I'm talking about it not the kind where you make "ki balls" and shoot it at people. Those techs were made by serious DBZ fans. I just wish they would leave the subject alone and stop distorting it. I don't feel like explaining my belief style to you, because I'm sick of being misinterperated, so if you want to find out you can search the web, because I'm sick of repeating myself!

[Kwan Jang]

-Chi/ki is an often misunderstood and even more often exploited by the con men trying to sell their "martial snake-oil". The real phenomena refers to (in terms of personal, as opposed to the universal) the body's electrical system(nervous system), usually in conjunction w/ the endocrine(hormonal) system(or chakras). There has been real scientific research done in this area at western universities including University of Ca. at San Francisco and Stanford University.(I do not mean to imply that reearch done in Asia is less valid.) With training one can "increase the wattage" and can use this for certain effects. Is this magic? No. Is it even psychic? I guess that would depend on your definition of it. It would not fit mine. I see it as a less explored and defined area that merits further study. In martial arts terms, I'm still focusing on less esoteric portions of my training if I had to defend myself. Still, this is an area that I feel that to deny it and close it off just because it is not yet fully understood would be a waste and foolish. On the other hand, expecting a comic book(or cartoon ) version of the Holy Grail would be even more foolish. A final point is that the terms chi, ki, flowing energy, ect. has been used and misused for many phenomena for a long time. On the universal level it has been used to describe everything from quantum mechanics in physics to what Christians term as the Holy Spirit. On the personal level , these terms have been applied toa variety of things from mechanical leverage to elite athletisicm and timing. If you choose to debate it's existance, you must first lock down what definition you are going by. Then, look at it w/o the blinders on:pro or con. You just might learn something from it. Or, you may at least avoid being suckered in by the next "guru's" parlor tricks.

[YODA]

Excellent well balanced post Kwan Jang :D

[JediMasterChris]

I agree Kwan Jang, very good post. Didn't mean to offend you guitarboy. Yes, I believe in ki. I was not saying anything wrong about it. But if you say that the kind of ki you believe in is not the kind where you shoot people with balls of energy, or like the DBZ kind, then why refer people to a site that is about stuff like that. The site you put was telling you how to shoot stuff with balls of chi...:D

[Knight_Errant]

Bah humbug, bollocks to it all:woo: :woo: :eek:

The reason there are very few authentic pictures of chi fireballs is that there are no authentic chi fireballs!

People can prat around with this kind of thing if they like, but please don't annoy any actual, especially not beginning and gullible, martial artists with it!

[YODA]

Originally posted by Knight_errant
Bah humbug, bollocks to it all:woo: :woo: :eek:

The reason there are very few authentic pictures of chi fireballs is that there are no authentic chi fireballs!

People can prat around with this kind of thing if they like, but please don't annoy any actual, especially not beginning and gullible, martial artists with it!


Now THAT'S more like it :D

[Knight_Errant]

Not the most BALANCED of rages, perhaps...

[YODA]

No - but got the sentiment across very well I thought :D

[Telsun]

Calling JediMasterChris...........I recall why you missed me!! PM about this thread?
This certainly took off:eek: My last post was the sceptical explanation of ki. Anyway the thread kinda spurned off the original intention. What the hell are you lot on about?

So ki/chi does exist? Any examples?

Yoda do you believe? You have not actually stated an opinion (forgive me if you have and I missed it when reading through).

How do I develop this"power"?

I wish to become the ultimate Jedi........I mean martial artist:D

[YODA]

Yoda do you believe? You have not actually stated an opinion (forgive me if you have and I missed it when reading through).

Depends - I believe there MAY be a force that we are yet to understand fully - probably some physical manifestation of our collective unconscious. As for ANYONE being able to use this in a martial arts context - BULLSH!T!

[Seito]

Ki energy Is The Source or substance of life itself.......its what you breath, its what you say, its what you feel, like the air in your face.......it can only be felt and not seen......the act of Ki Manipulation, or crating kiballs and other techniques takes musch practice and plenty of open awareness to these waves of energy.usually Video Game and anime freaks claim that they can do this........but i believe playing video games make it harder to achieve these altered states of mind you need to reach for ki manipulation...In short KI is just Energy and It CAN me shaped into whatever you want it to.......it just takes practice:)

[Seito]

Ki is energy....the very substance of life itself........it CAN be manipulated with alot of practice!

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Seito, show me.

[Seito]

I cannot Show you Through my comp but i can tell you were to find a usefull resource........Go to yahoo and Search EXPERT KI The First link should take you to a place called iris.......It has planty of Usefull info on KI MANIPULATION....

[LilBunnyRabbit]

I love the scientific theory of ki on that website. Absolutely hilarious.

[Seito]

lol..........indeed. 'tis how the cookie crumbles

[Knight_Errant]

isn't that a kind of online gaming site?

[Rhineville]

This is just my theory, so please, no one take offense...

I think that there is no physical "chi/ki". Instead, I think chi is the combination of good timing, technique, body mechanics and power that allow a technique to reach its full potential.
For everyday "life energy", I think chi is the combination of right nutrition, sleep, physical and mental stability that allow for a completely healthy state of being.

[redbull]

good anwer rhineville san, good anwer

[YODA]

Originally posted by Rhineville
This is just my theory, so please, no one take offense...

I think that there is no physical "chi/ki". Instead, I think chi is the combination of good timing, technique, body mechanics and power that allow a technique to reach its full potential.
For everyday "life energy", I think chi is the combination of right nutrition, sleep, physical and mental stability that allow for a completely healthy state of being.


*Applause :D

[Afro]

i have been studing tai chi for half a year now and i have came to the conclusion that there is a feeling i get when practising and i can be described as a warmth in the hands (presonlay i feel its more like when u have been holding some weights for to long and u put them down)and the well balanced person i am i go to my karate traning arfter and i seem more responsive and stronger im not saying this is a form of life energy but i do conclude That there is some factor that isnt just concentration or extra stretching
so in short there i feel there wont be a time of the dragon ballz/street fighter energy blasts but there is a factor of human biology that allows for energy from one place or another to help improve your fighting prowess.wether this is just concentraition sending extra blood to the working mucles or a persons life energy(i would define this as the natural electricalal charge that people are born with)

however this is just a idea i have been fiddeling with whenever i ask the question to myself and any feedback would be apprichiated

[Hannibal]

Chi has about 300 different definitions depending on who you ask. Anyone who says "it is this..." is probably just re-hashing what they were told. No-one has EVER proven chi - and www.randi.org STILL has $1million to anyone who can.

Even Chinese masters cannot agree on what chi is (See "Chinese Boxing" by Robert W. Smith- I counted at least three explainations including one chinese master saying "it doesn't exist").

In short KI is just Energy and It CAN me shaped into whatever you want it to

Cobblers - there is nothing done with chi that cannot be replicated by anyone just using mechanics of the body. It is esotericism for its own sake. If you can prove otherwise, go claim your money from Randi.

Edited for crap typing

[Eero]

There are many kinds of Chi. Most people seem to think it's a one thing, but that is not true. Don't know much about it though. Sure do believe it, but can not explain it. Why should it be explained when it just can be experienced.

[LilBunnyRabbit]

Why should it be explained when it just can be experienced.

You experience gravity every single day, but we still explain that, and with chi it can't just be experienced. At least, despite searching long and hard for it, I've never seen it demonstrated in any form beyond simple biomechanical or psychological trickery.

[shuyun3]

the law of conservatio of energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed.

which means energy has to come from something. I'd imagine someone collapsing to the ground if anyone can actually pull of a "hadouken".

well i don't think it can be done

[palecricket1]

If you want to learn, just visit the link in my sig. if you somehow miss it, it's www.palepsi.tk. If you email me (palecricket2@yahoo.com) I can send you a document that explains everything in detail. I'm still developing it, so i'll send you an updated copy everytime i update it. In short, Chi or ki is the energy in your body, or rather one kind of energy. Three major classifications of bodily energy include:
Chi/ki/qi- affects energy fields only, although it may be changed into jing when passing through an object. Metabolic byproduct, eminated from the bodily tissues, and circulated through the body by the kidneys
Jing- a version of chi where the superstrings themselves are compressed, altering their energy/vibration rate. It affects the physical body. naturally created in the bones, where the spongy tissue makes chi which passes through the denser bone tissues and is converted.
Kundalini- a dangerous energy that affects both energy fields and the physical body. It is the energy in the chakras and is also formed in the spine due to the interaction between the chi/jing producing vertabra and the electromagnetic field of the spinal chord.
Others may exist and there are sub groups of them. I could get into more depth on the production and circulation of energy, but i don't want to take up half a page.;)

[palecricket1]

oh hey Hannibal: they have proven chi, although the scientist who discovered it, Viktor Grebennikov, was neither looking to prove chi nor labeled his discovery as chi, even though that was it. Never the less he proved that psychokinesis was possible, moreover that it was probable. Furthermore I am studying the phenomena of Chi as we speak and each day i draw nearer to fully proving it beyond the shadow of a doubt. I estimate that by 2007 my findings will be published and the factuality of chi will be acknowledged. By now you must be wondering why if there's all this is happening, no one's ever heard of it. 1) few people talk with the proof are very open about it 2) Grebennikov was an entamologist who discovered psychokinetic abilites in an endagered species of bee and didn't want them to be exploited and possibly slaughtered, so alot of what he discovered isn't public. 3) international and linguistic boundaries 4) possibly governmental/diplomatic issues. If anyone wishes for me to give you the full load of conclusive proof, contact me and i'll show you.

[evil_max]

I agree with the third post on this topic its all arounds us and its what creates life arounds us.

[Mig]

[QUOTE=Afro]i have been studing tai chi for half a year now and i have came to the conclusion that there is a feeling i get when practising and i can be described as a warmth in the hands (presonlay i feel its more like when u have been holding some weights for to long and u put them down)and the well balanced person i am i go to my karate traning arfter and i seem more responsive and stronger im not saying this is a form of life energy but i do conclude That there is some factor that isnt just concentration or extra stretching

I studied Tai chi for two years, And I agree with you insofar as I it loosens me up more than stretching. My instuctor used to talk about chi but wouldn't go further than saying it was energy. I have seen what I can only describe as my aura whilst doing Tai chi, this was a one off occasion but startling enough to merit mention. I reckon that this had to be some kind of energy so that would be as much as I can define or explain chi. However, My current sensei frequently quotes his old sensei, "keiko, keiko, keiko", practise, practise, practise. 1st practise until you don't want to anymore, then practise again until you're tired and heartily sick of the whole idea, then drag yourself up and practise again. It is the third practise that does more as it builds not only body but spirit. Karate has opened up my understanding of the link between body, mind and spirit, and has provided the best definition I have had to date of 'spirit'. This is through experience, not a book or web site. So, whereas I am open to the idea of a mysterious life force, I guess I'll find out in due time if needs be, I build spirit with Karate which is used in and improves my life.

[Relosa]

Has anyone on this forum heard of Dim Mak? The Five Element theory? Any pressure point theories and I mean chinese pressure point, not if you put a lot of pressure here it'll hurt, 'cause if you do that anywhere on the body it'll start to hurt unless you do the deep breathing techiniques and zone it out. Ok. So anyways. All of the traditional chinese medicines are based on the munipilation of the energy of the body, Yin and Yang energies.
So starting with the elements each has a organ of the body that is connected with it Fire - the Yin organ is the heart and the Yang is the Small intestine, Earth Yin - Spleen and Yang - Stomach, Metal Yin - Lung Yang - Large Intestine, Water Yin - Kidney Yang - Bladder 2nd Fire(don't ask my why there are two I can't remember) Yin - Pericardium Yang - Triple Warmer, Wood Yin - Liver Yang - Gall Bladder. Now about pressure points, there are around 361 points all over the body, they're on 12 Meridians and each meridian has an organ thus each organ and element. Along with the 12 Oragan Meridians there are two others, conception vessel and governing vessel. Now how does this tie in with Ki, well that's what Dim Mak is, it's striking a single pressure points or a group of pressure points while using your ki to hit them. Dim Mak is a master techinique so after you've learned Tuite, Suite, Pressure points, and the five element system. Then theres Dim Mak. Any master who's seriously studied Karate and everything that is involved with it should understand Dim Mak or at least understand the concept. So I don't know if that really means anything to none believers or Ki. But I'll just say that I've done things and seen people do things that involve their ki and I defiinitly believe that it's real. That and sometimes scientific proof of anything isn't always the best thing to have, faith can do a lot.

Relosa


Oh and to all the people who hate DBZers, well I was one of them and then I became educated about what Ki really is, so they're not all bad ;)