Tai Chi "Free Sparring"

[Visage]

I recently started to learn Yang Tai Chi Chuan.
My instructor and I are interested in a sparring match. We already practice push hands, but we are interested to find out if there is another way to spar between Tai Chi and an external style. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

James

[Ad McG]

Hit each other with tai chi strikes vs external style strikes :D

[Visage]

Hit each other with tai chi strikes vs external style strikes :D

Now why didn't I think of that? :rolleyes: lol

I meant is there a particular way it should be done, or do we literally "Hit each other with tai chi strikes vs external style strikes"?

[choconutjoe]

I recently started to learn Yang Tai Chi Chuan.
My instructor and I are interested in a sparring match. We already practice push hands, but we are interested to find out if there is another way to spar between Tai Chi and an external style. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

James
I was told by Tian Ying Jia that it's not worth 'sparring' with Yang Taiji untill you've fully mastered at least the middle frame (say, about 10 years). He said if you try to use the 108 large frame for fighting it will hinder your development as that was not what the large frame was designed for.

[RobP]

True, the large frame was not designed for fighting but as preparation for fa jing work. I was shown the LF along with solo fa jing drills (though it looked somewhat different to Tien's).

However I don't agree that it takes 10 years before you can spar. I heard him say that too, though I did wonder awhat the quality of their sparring would be....

[daftyman]

I recently started to learn Yang Tai Chi Chuan.
My instructor and I are interested in a sparring match. We already practice push hands, but we are interested to find out if there is another way to spar between Tai Chi and an external style. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

James
What are you hoping to achieve?
Do you want to see how taiji works against the external style?
Attack the taiji player with an external attack and see what happens. If you are still newish to taiji, you'll probably want to slow things down a bit. I am a fan of the Systema approach in this regard. If the attack is too quick, you might not be able to use taiji, but instead use an innate response that is more 'external'. This would take you further away from taiji imho.

Anyway if it is a match, where you want to find a winner, as opposed to examining the way in which taiji principles could be used, you'll want to set some ground rules.

No use of empty force.
No rotting of opponents internal organs.
No breaking of limbs.
No use of paralysing death touch attacks.

Start slow and light, and gradually get faster and harder from there. As long as you both know what the rules are, you should be able to get something from it. It might not be what you're looking for though.

For me, trying to apply taiji without having a strong knowledge of the sensitivety and root, means that you would be just moving in a way that might look like taiji. Problem is, it wouldn't be.

[wutan]

I recently started to learn Yang Tai Chi Chuan.
My instructor and I are interested in a sparring match. We already practice push hands, but we are interested to find out if there is another way to spar between Tai Chi and an external style. Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks

James


Sparring is not and easy thing to practice using only Tai Chi principles yet it is a good thing to try.
I have tried this with a partner (best way to spar!) and it showed up several things.
Best thing is to wear a headguard and gumshield-Just incase!
It can be very messy and even a trained spectator would find it difficult to ascertain that we were using Tai Chi as our chosen art.
The 'parry and punch' method will take some time to get it to a point where you can actually use the principle of Yin and Yang.
If you are using mats then you can both agree that takedowns are allowed(white crane flaps it's wings,double leg sieze,cross hands etc) and this can be interesting.
Both partners will start out using an external approach and it is only after a few attempts will it feel more relaxed and softer.
We must try to relax as much as possible which is not easy as our heritage is to have the 'fight or flight adrenal response to kick in and take over.
Keep it light initially and have a good warm up using a few drills or maybe the form-You can also cool down using the form.
If one person gets a bit heavy then stop and start again untill you both feel comfortable-This can be ramped up ata later stage.
In the style that I practice we have 8 major sets of pushing hands both fixed and moving step.
We also have a 'san shou' routine which we can use as a pre-requisite to the sparring.
Have a look at www.shadowhand.co.uk and www.fightingtaichi.com to get an idea of what i'm rabbiting on about.

Cheers,

mark.

[cybermonk]

Its simple, just use tai chi for sparring. There are internal guys at our school and we just spar together.

[wutan]

Its simple, just use tai chi for sparring. There are internal guys at our school and we just spar together.

That's what I meant to say!

Mark.

[noblenicky]

Taiji in its essence teaches a set of principles of movement. Thus, any applications should not be restricted to movements done in the forms. You cant say "Hey, that move wasnt taught in the form, you are not using taiji!". A common roundhouse kick is as much taiji as pushing someone with Lazily Tying Coat, as long as the user keeps to the principles.

Also remember that taiji is often practised in grappling, rather than strikes. Takedowns and other grappling methods is often a close resemblance to most parts of the forms, and almost always used in push-hands.

[YODA]

No use of empty force.
No rotting of opponents internal organs.
No breaking of limbs.
No use of paralysing death touch attacks.




And people wonder why IMA gets a bad rep? Come on guy get real. This is MA not DrangonballZ :rolleyes:

[AZeitung]

Still, you have to admit, they are good rules :)
I mean, do you want to get internal organ rot?

[daftyman]

And people wonder why IMA gets a bad rep? Come on guy get real. This is MA not DrangonballZ :rolleyes:
Sorry dude! Hey I know it isn't real. Felt that I did not need to use a 'smilie'. Figured everyone would get the point that this was tongue in cheek.

What's dragonballZ?

[shaolin_hendrix]

Read "there are no secrets" by Wolfe Lowenthal. It's about Cheng Man Ching, and it focuses on sticking hands.

[TkdWarrior]

man u should talk to tim cartmell n bunch about this... I heard they spar with full Out... hmm..
try asking this question as http://www.emptyflower.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi/YaBB.cgi go and post there... u'll find some intresting answers :D :p
-TkdWarrior-