Use of the Guard in Judo

[notquitedead]

(forgive me if there was already a thread about this, but I ran a search and didn't find one)

Okay I have a question about using the guard in judo. I know a lot of judo-kas use it, but it's not an official technique (according to kodokan.org's list of techniques). Neither is the triangle choke or armbar from the guard.

This came up in a recent thread about hapkido. There is a website that has two clips of "hapkido" which I thought looked more like BJJ or judo because of the techniques involved. I looked around for a while and noticed that judo has no guard. I thought this was odd, because since hapkido was developed from daito-ryu aiki-jujitsu, and apparently it uses the guard, that since judo was formed from JJ that it would also use the guard.

So here's my question: was the guard already around at that time and Kano ignored it when he made judo, or was it invented by BJJ and then introduced into judo long after hapkido was founded? If it's the latter, then that website isn't demonstrating hapkido, but BJJ, which is odd because it's a website for the a world-wide hapkido organisation.

[GrappleorWrestle]

I do not exactly think Kano ignored it. I have heard he favored the more traditional offensive postions and that he considered the guard a defensive position so he did not spend as much time with it. Thats just hear say, so I do not know. But I do know that BJJ practitioners have done phenomenal things with the guard and use it as an offensive posture and have made it a trully effective. I applaud them for it. I know many of them favor it.

[Aegis]

Triangle choke = Sangaku-jime.
Armbar from guard = Either ude-gatame or hiza-gatame.

There are quite a few techniques used that aren't on the official Kodokan syllabus, but it doesn't mean they aren't used in competition. However, in general the groundwork in Judo is very inferior to that of BJJ, largely due to the fact that a defensive but limited posture can allow you to stand if no immediate results are seen by the ref.

[notquitedead]

I'm just wondering if the guard was used before hapkido was founded (and before the founder of hapkido studied daito-ryu, though I'm not sure when that was). If there is anything kano wrote specifically about not liking the guard, then I guess that's proof that there was a guard back then. Did he write that anywhere or is that just a guess (Bokata)?

[GrappleorWrestle]

Just hearsay. Thats what I have been told because someone I know has asked questions about it before.

[Freeform]

There's lot of things that are done in Judo that don't really have names. Judo training is more technique orientated whilst BJJ is more positional orientated. Plenty Judo players use 'the guard' they just don't really have a name for it.

Col

[Spookey]

Dear All,

Being that this angle has not yet been brought up; I feel obligated to point it out.

Osae-komi-waza...hold down techniques... :bang:

Judo is a martial sport with its feet firmly planted in competition. One way to win in randori is by controlling the movements of your opponent. The guard does not seem to be an ideal technique based on the ability to lose in competition by lying prone on your back!

Just like the guard would not serve well in freestyle wrestling!

P.S. Check the official listing of Shime-waza...Im looking at it now...SANKAKU-JIME...

Roll On!
Spookey

[Freeform]

I'd have to argue that the guard is used to prevent a pin in Judo, if your on the deck and the guys on top of you, you want to break his pin. Either getting up/getting on top of him/or wrapping your legs around him will accomplish this.

Col

[Spookey]

Freeform,


I must say I agree with you (contrary to my previous post) the "guard" allows for a few good techniques that I overlooked in my previous post.

1. Ryote Jime (two hand choke)

2. Sode guruma jime (Sleeve wheel choke)

3. Sankaku-jime (triangle chole)

These techniques from the guard do have a reasonable amount of probabity, however, in randori I must say, the "guard" is the last place I would wanna be!

Spookey

[Freeform]

Too true!

I'd rather be standing up. ;)

[TheMachine]

Its been around but only after BJJ showed how potent it is, then the guard was suddenly given more attention. You can get a triangle, armbar, kimura and a guillotine from the guard.